Ranking the Capitals: #19
by J.P. on Aug 20, 2009 8:24 PM EDT
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PrintIn an effort to beat the summer doldrums, we're undertaking to rank - with your help - the Washington Capitals, from Ovechkin to, well, we'll see. The criteria is simple: who at this moment is the most valuable player in the organization who hasn't already been ranked? Put another way, if you could only keep one of the remaining players - because of what he brings on the ice or off it, his upside, what he could fetch in trade, and so on - who would it be? Consider age, potential, contract status, organizational depth, etc. - it's your call. And after you vote and defend your selection in the comments, help us out and suggest a name to add to the next poll. [Note: previous "Ranking the Capitals" posts can be found here."]
Welcome Jose Theodore to the list, and Mathieu Perreault to the poll...
If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's editors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.
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I love the Prof and even wear his jersey to home games, but there is no way that he’s the most “valuable” on that list unless you’re the owner of a comedy club. His upside is what he is – a 4th liner who has some personality and is slightly overpaid (and is willing to lose fights to jack up his teammates).
Osala is a potential 2nd line-crash the net- winger who the Caps will really need down the road when Clark/Knuble/Laich?/Fehr? become too expensive or retire.
I’d hate to see him leave, but would hate to see someone like Osala leave even more (if we’re going on skill/talent/etc. only).
My feeling is that roster players have more value than someone who has not played that many games at the NHL level.
"And next year it will be ours."
Fair enough. Will you also vote for Nylander over Osala then?
I just think that someone who is being trained to fill a known hole in the organizational depth (and has 20-30 goal upside) is more valuable than a guy whose role could easily be filled by a lot of AHLers (although without the comedy that I love!)
Yeah, well, you know, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
"And next year it will be ours."
by Ovechwin on Aug 21, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He fixes the cable?
Okay, I’m going to have to watch this again this weekend. I was hoping the 10th Anniversary re-release (that came inside a bowling ball) would have been Blu-Ray. Alas, only DVD for now.
There was a great article on Page 2 over at ESPN about the actual Dude the movie was based off of (he’s apparently a real-life friend of the Coen Brothers.) They took some liberties with his personality, such as replacing running with bowling, but does that matter? It’s a cult classic.
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to quote the great chad85: “child please.”
i’m worried my vociferous defense of boyd gordon has carried over to the poll’s other 4th liner, who is (IMO) far more replaceable. the only regular that played fewer minutes per game than bradley was brashear. over the entire season, bradley tallied 5 goals and 6 assists. he was also a minus player despite playing against the second-worst competition on the team (h/t DMG’s rink wrap). steckel and gordon are special cases for me—checking line centers that star on the PK and are top-10 in the NHL in faceoff percentage. bradley…not so special.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 20, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m basing my decision on the fact Matty preformed in the playoffs in addition to being a solid roster player throughout the year.
Besides the guy got destroyed in a fight, got stiches inside of his nose, and got back in game, I don’t think many of the other players left on the list will bring that kind of dedication to the team.
"And next year it will be ours."
A number of us have tried pointing this out b4 but Brads has some serious lovers it appears. I like the guy but you can find a ton of guys to do his job.
Loved the ochocinco ref.
by Carl Putnam on Aug 21, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
O2 has over-taken him for now. i have faith that bradley will move into theo’s role as perennial second place. the only obstacle would be defensemen splitting 02’s voters.
pre-emptive strike: shaMo with his age, playoff experience and recent history as a top-pairing defenseman would have significantly greater trade value than pothier or jurcina.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 21, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
So Nylander is more valuable to the organization than John Carlson?
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$5.5 million this year says “yes.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Aug 20, 2009 8:35 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Taking the big winger with potential over the career 4th liner:
http://wewintrophies.com/ - 12 major trophies in national and international competitions. Be a part of the next one.
by Bald Pollack on Aug 20, 2009 9:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Going with ShaMo. When he’s focused and on his game he’s a top 4 defense and can bring the wood when so inclined. Of all the guys on the list he’d probably bring the most in a trade (either alone or in combination with another player, draft pick, etc). He’s half a million less than Pothier and at least as good in my mind. I’d like to see Aucoin or Beagle added to the list.
by ChrisAm on Aug 20, 2009 9:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think Mo’s a perfectly defensible pick here. Not mine, but he was close.
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I’m bouncing back and forth between ShaMo and Pothier. Both have proven their ability to play at a high level at times, and both have serious questions going into this season. But since they actually have done something at the NHL level, I’d rank them above Osala.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 21, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Same here. His stay at home skills are needed m,ore than other guys at this point. Especially on a team where Poti, Green, and Pothier are likely to pinch a fair amount.
by Carl Putnam on Aug 21, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
i don’t see clark as being an important part of this team. he is captain and all, but an injured player can’t help. even when he did come back, he wasn’t a gamechanger.
by hockeyman33 on Aug 20, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t think i’m taking him for granted, but CC is still a prospect and a couple of defensemen away for me.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 20, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t have my list with me, but I think I had Clark at 27 or 28 on my sheet.
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nothing can be counted on anymore with clark, and i have no problem taking most of the other starters and several prospects in front of him….but his character and his experience should carry some value to the team.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 21, 2009 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions
vote and defend your selection in the comments
I could be wrong, but I’ve seen more comments about why others have been more valuable than Bradley than those who voted for him.
Come on, getting your ass kicked by Jordan Tootoo in one game and scoring two goals in another shouldn’t be more valuable to the club than a couple of potential second-line forwards or a veteran defenseman.
http://wewintrophies.com/ - 12 major trophies in national and international competitions. Be a part of the next one.
by Bald Pollack on Aug 21, 2009 8:14 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Come on, getting your ass kicked by Jordan Tootoo in one game and scoring two goals in another shouldn’t be more valuable to the club than a couple of potential second-line forwards or a veteran defenseman.
Amen. If Bradley tore his ACL tomorrow and the Caps traded Osala for a Bradley clone I’d be seriously disappointed.
I voted Bourque, really in my mind the only top-6 type guy who’ll make the team in the near future as a skill player. And I’d trade anyone else on the list for him (looking at long-term).
I love Brads, but GMGM could call up any team in the NHL right now and trade Osala for someone who’s a better checking line player than Brads.
He could also do that with Morrissonn and Jurcina as well for what it’s worth.
by Tromni on Aug 21, 2009 9:26 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Oh my, 22 votes each for Clark, Brads, and Osala.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 21, 2009 10:09 AM EDT reply actions
Sorry, all those drugs I took before work…
POTHIER, Brads, and Osala.
by DrinkingPartner on Aug 21, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Cha-ching for Ersky-poo!
From Catching Up with Boyd Gordon in the WaPo:
Gordon also said he’s curious to see how the season plays out without a designated heavyweight enforcer.
“Generally you have someone,” he said, adding that John Erskine can step into the role if needed. “We definitely have a pretty skilled team. I don’t know. Brash was great to have around. He was kind of our policeman. We’ll see what happens this year.”
Gordon goes on to talk about how the Caps’ superior powerplay maybe penalizing teams that take “cheap shots”, but I dunno……..I realize I’m in a vast, gaping minority here, but I think losing Brash is an underrated concern going into this season. Bradley is NOT capable of this role, while Erskine is very capable (downsides are that he is a D and concussion-prone).
We’re not Detroit, and I don’t think we can emulate their style of play. Why? Because our superstar, the heart and soul of this team, makes the other teams’ blood boil with his aggressive, physical, and brash (pun intended) style of play. He goes after people, and people go after him. That style of play requires protection. I’m more than willing to cast a vote for the 19th most valuable Cap being the player most likely asked to be ready to fill what I think it an important, often necessary presence.
I just think the NHL has neutered heavyweight enforcers to the point where they don’t provide any protection at all. The agitators have all learned to avoid fights. Brash was totally ineffective last year, and I think he’s very good at what he does. I don’t think any heavyweight protected anyone on any team last year. And I blame the NHL.
The heavyweights may give the team a spark or a lift, they may agitate and get people off their game, but I don’t think heavyweights make anyone think twice anymore. How many times did Avery get pounded last year in a fight?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Aug 21, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
We’re not Detroit, and I don’t think we can emulate their style of play. Why? Because our superstar, the heart and soul of this team, makes the other teams’ blood boil with his aggressive, physical, and brash (pun intended) style of play. He goes after people, and people go after him. That style of play requires protection.
Obviously it’s very difficult to prove a negative but I never felt teams were taking more liberties with the Caps with Brashear out of the lineup than with him in it, nor do I recall Brash taking anyone to task after last season’s opener.
I get the points that you and GOD are making, in that the game is changing and how Brash’s presence was perceived as ineffective by some of us. My point was to highlight the Gordon quote. Who knows how the topic came up between him and TEB, but there is something to be said for the players publicly acknowledging the role he had and how he provided them the “policeman” mentality. To me, whether Brash was fighting or not, he’s saying that having Brash in the lineup gave them a sense of protection, or a comfort level out on the ice that now isn’t there.
I agree that the Professor is the right choice for #19. Both sides of the “do we need enforcers anymore?” argument have good points, and while we definitely don’t need someone like Brashear, Bradley can fill that role when necessary while still being a decent skater (something we obviously can’t say for Brash). So he’s a perfect halfway point between the two.
Also, Brads has been clutch in a number of situations, something that should not be forgotten.
"My face is my mask."
by Jake Shapiro on Aug 21, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
It requires protection, but not a traditional protection…We need feisty guys that deal out hard hits and occasionally cheap shots during the game rather than as a side show. If somebody isn’t giving Ovie enough time, throw a guy out there that isn’t afraid the bend the rules to the limit but not break them.
Fighters still have their place, but I’m not sure a fight that you win is a good thing. Someone did an analysis of fights, when Bradley fights, the team responds. Look at the pens vs flyers last year when talbot fought. That’s the new fighter: the guy you least expect who looks to give a spark. The new “enforcer” is either an agitator to get the other team to go shorthanded or a guy that hits the boards to punish the other team.
This is all fine. I’m not looking for a fighter who just wants a nice win-loss record. I’m all for adopting a bit of the Vancouver or Chicago approach (several willing combatants without a single go-to heavyweight circus act). Only called upon when required.
I just don’t want to go through the season with Bradley having perpetual raccoon eyes and his jaw wired shut from losing fights to Brian Gionta.
We’re not Detroit, and I don’t think we can emulate their style of play.
DET’s method is to punish teams with their PP. We had the second best PP in the league last year and it’s not unrealistic to believe it could get better with Knuble out there.
Because our superstar, the heart and soul of this team, makes the other teams’ blood boil with his aggressive, physical, and brash (pun intended) style of play. He goes after people, and people go after him. That style of play requires protection.
Maybe Hank, Datsyuk, and Lidstrom aren’t as physical as AO, but teams want to punish them just as much. EVERY team’s game plan is “get the puck in deep and punish Lidstrom.” Problem is, he’s too damn good to do that often. Hank and Datsyuk may not lay thunderous hits but they are relentless on defense, and trust me, a relentless defender that pokes the puck away every time you’re about to get it, or stick lifts you at the last second, is far more annoying than a guy that is constantly taking the body. Everyone would love a good clean lick on those guys, but it’s just not that easy. Same with AO, everyone wants to hit him, it’s just easier said than done. Even when you line him up and catch him you’re likely to get the worst of it. He’s not the guy that needs protecting. He can take care of himself. It’s guys like Semin that need more protection, IMO. Does anyone remember a single player on our team doing anything to Orpik when he was playing a drum solo on Semin’s hands in round 2? Me either.
I
’m more than willing to cast a vote for the 19th most valuable Cap being the player most likely asked to be ready to fill what I think it an important, often necessary presence.
There are plenty of guys that fill that role. You don’t need “our boy” to do it. GMGM could go on the trade/FA market and fill that role in a heartbeat without giving up much, if anything.
a relentless defender that pokes the puck away every time you’re about to get it, or stick lifts you at the last second, is far more annoying than a guy that is constantly taking the body.
Don’t agree with this at all, at least not in the context of the discussion. Stick lifts might be annoying, but they are not “you-piss-me-off-let’s-drop-em-motherfucker”. Throwing the body is what leads to a majority of physical confrontations, whether it ends in just trash-talking, a bunch of facewashing, or ultimately, a fight.
You don’t need "our boy" to do it.
Not sure who said “our boy”, but I assume you’re referring to Erskine. Pending another acquisition, as you mention, he is the guy. My guess is that either the Caps have explicitly told him that he’ll be picking up the lion’s share of this role, or the team plans to go into the season just winging it, hoping for the best. Good news is that it won’t take long to fight out what this team is made of. BOS, PHI, TOR, and NYR to open the season. Manny will be stopping through town a few days before the season opens. Time to load up on gonadotropins!
“Our boy” meant any of the replaceable parts that wore a Caps jersey last season. Brads and Erskine are easily replaceable but have lots of built up fan loyalty because of the last couple of years. That inflates their perceived value.
Big hits can lead to confrontations, no doubt, but big hits aren’t what make other players want to put a guy through the wall. The guys that are more prone to get cheap shotted and have liberties taken are the less physical guys. If you are talking about players that need to be defended, it’s the annoying, less physical players, that need protection more than the physical players. But even within the context of big hits requiring protection, it seems to me that Kronwall gets by alright without an enforcer on the team. He doesn’t fight for himself so it’s not like he serves as his own enforcer. The fact that AO throws big hits does not make him the top candidate for protection on this team.
I agree. I am not worried at all about Ovie. He was never the focus of my point about needing protection. It’s definitely intended for those softer skilled guys that would need it. In fact, because no doubt one day it will happen, when Ovie finally does get in a fight I think he’s going to drill whoever he goes with.
I nominate Kugryshev if he’s eligible for the list. Top 6 potential, already put up good numbers as a rookie in the Q, good skater, good shooter, good on the boards. Seems like he could be a very good complimentary piece for the top lines going forward.
In that case it’s time for SDR or Angus. They are the only two guys that fill a long term need. Normally I’d take the guy with top 6 upside over the pure checker but I think there are too many questions with Angus to expect him to become a 2C at this point (especially with Johansson and Perreault also vying for that spot). SDR is going to be a grade A pest and I think he’s a relatively safe bet to reach that potential. The Caps don’t really have another true pest in the system and it really showed in the playoffs. SDR is the kind of guy that can fight Avery. One of the glaring weaknesses the Caps had in the playoffs was grit. SDR has it in spades.
Agreed on SDR.
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by Bald Pollack on Aug 21, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like it’s Bradley by a very broken nose.
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by winterion on Aug 21, 2009 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I accidentally voted for Potheir, but meant to vote for Osala. So if Pothier wins by one, everyone can blame me.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
54 | 26 | 17 | 11 | 63 |
|
Washington
|
54 | 28 | 21 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
57 | 26 | 25 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
54 | 24 | 24 | 6 | 54 |
|
Carolina
|
56 | 20 | 25 | 11 | 51 |
(updated 2.12.2012 at 8:46 AM EST)
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