Ranking the Capitals: #2
by J.P. on Aug 2, 2009 12:46 PM EDT
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PrintIn an effort to beat the summer doldrums, we're undertaking to rank - with your help - the Washington Capitals, from Ovechkin to, well, we'll see. The criteria is simple: who is the most valuable player in the organization who hasn't already been ranked? Put another way, if you could only keep one of the remaining players, who would it be (or who would have the most value in trade as of right now)? Consider age, potential, contract status, organizational depth, etc. - it's your call. And after you vote and defend your selection in the comments, help us out and suggest a name to add to the next poll.
Since there's no debating who should be number 1, let's kick things off at number 2...
If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's editors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.
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I like Backstrom here. The only thing that makes it a tough call is that he’s not under contract beyond this year, while there’s two years of cost-certainty on Mike Green after 2009-10.
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I took this question to mean “value to the team”; in my mind, there’s no question. It’s gotta be Nicky. Nicky’s the man behind the curtain on that top line that makes that line tick.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
You should take the question to mean “if you could only keep one of the remaining players, who would it be (or who would have the most value in trade as of right now)?”
And I love Nicky as much as (maybe more than) the next guy, but to say he makes the top line tick is a bit much – the top line was pretty productive with Zubrus and Clark, probably because of the LW.
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…and i picked Green for the same reason. I find it virtually impossible to pick b/t 19 and 52.
by mechanicsville on Aug 3, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Tough to say between Backstrom or Green. The two most important pieces to our PP, among other things.
I’ll say Backstrom. Quickly becoming one of the best playmakers in the league, and developing into a great (dominant?) two-way player to boot.
If you recognize Ovie as our best player, obviously, why not recognize the player that allows him to be the player that he is?
Went with Green, but easily could have convinced myself to pick Backstrom here. Either way, they are #2 and #3, and everyone else falls in line behind them. I’m hoping that after this season I’ll have to consider a netminder for top 3 rank, but I haven’t seen enough of Varly yet to put him up nearly that high, and he’s the highest ranked goalie (based on expectations) right now in my book
by PaintDrinkingPete on Aug 2, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions
Choosing between Green and Backstrom is brutal. Backstrom is what every team that wants to contend must have — a playmaking center. You don’t get to contend for the Cup without one.
But Greener is what no other team in contention has. He’s the “secret weapon” — the thing that makes the Caps so hard to match up against.
I voted for Green. There are other “Backstroms” in the league. The Caps could possibly put together a package to trade for one, or sign one as a free agent if they needed one. But there ain’t nobody else like Green.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 2, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I think you can’t underrate the two years that Green is locked up for that Backstrom isn’t. We have no idea how Backstrom contract talks might go, or what it’ll take to lock him up…
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Thank goodness they’re both RFAs for a long while yet…
by Gould Old Days on Aug 2, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
There are other "Backstroms" in the league. The Caps could possibly put together a package to trade for one, or sign one as a free agent if they needed one.
This almost persuaded me. But Backstrom is a top 10 scorer after only his second year. He’s been very strong in both ends of the ice, in the corners, on the boards, and in the middle of the ice. When we have to resort to knocking his face offs you know he’s playing solid hockey. How many Backstrom’s are there really? And how steep would the price be to acquire one? The guy’s that can play like that aren’t just available for an easy pick up. Maybe the trade would allow us to keep Green but it would cost some significant pieces. If we keep one guy then we just use the accumulated prospects we have to fill in (Carlson and Alzner in the case of Green; nobody in the case of Backstrom) then we get greater overall value, IMO.
Though I think there are more “Backstroms” than “Greens”.
by red army line on Aug 2, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure that there are other Backstroms that could be had. Who would it be? One of the young guys from Chicago? Malkin? Crosby? Am I overrating Nick here? He’s a top 10 center right now, and he’s barely old enough to get a beer at Rock Bottom after practice. Who else is on that list that might be available to replace him?
While I love Green, and he’s certainly an important cog, I have to think that he can be replaced more easily than Backstrom would be.
And after you vote and defend your selection in the comments, help us out and suggest a name to add to the next poll.
Knuble’s the most valuable person not currently on the poll. Steckel also should be added sooner rather than later.
Also, might not need to include Fehr in the poll until we’re past the Top 10.
Although, I think the most sound method, unless it becomes an unruly-looking poll, is to give us the option to vote for anyone on the current roster.
There’s no need to let people vote for anyone on the roster, because each day someone is voted onto the list (and off the poll), he’ll be replaced by someone else, and, at least for a while, it’s hard for me to imagine that there are more than ten possibilities for the most valuable guy remaining. For example, if we add Knuble tomorrow, are there really going to be people arguing that someone off the list is the most valuable guy left? The ten-player span should be fine for a long time if we keep replacing guys with decent options.
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I like the current system. Gives us something else to argue about discuss as well. You’re in for some pushback the day you decide to add Flash to the list…
by Gould Old Days on Aug 2, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I hear what you’re saying and not questioning your methodology. It just seemed to me intially that the ten names given above to choose from was someone’s assessment on what spots 2 thru 11 should look like. Based on the results so far, the top five or so will be easy, but beyond that why not let us vote for anyone in the system?
By the time we get to #5 or 6, we’ll have legitimate choices for next, provided that people are suggesting them to be added along the way. In essence, “help us out and suggest a name to add to the next poll” is your chance to vote for anyone in the system.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I second Steckel needing to be on the poll. Like Greenie, he’s a “secret weapon” and one of the most underrated guys in hockey (although he got a lot of love during the playoffs from across North America, deserving so)
What RedBirdie said…
Steckel isn’t getting my vote this high up yet, but his name should go up there.
Regarding Knuble, it’s hard to rate a guy that hasn’t seen a minute of ice time in a Caps sweater yet, but let’s face it, in order to be successful, the Caps will need him to be the kind of guy that gets considered soon rather than later
by PaintDrinkingPete on Aug 2, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m surprised Alex Semin isn’t getting any love whatsoever here.
Over the past two seasons, Green and Backstrom have each created 0.32 goals per game (Goals created is calculated by adding goals scored to 0.5 times assists, then multiplying by team goals divided by team goals plus 0.5 times team assists). AO is at 0.58 for that span, and Semin is at 0.39.
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Semin’s a solid, no-doubt #4 for me. He’s incredibly skilled and was great in the playoffs too, scoring at a point a game pace. And he looks good in all the recent paяty photos.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 2, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. I’m just surprised he doesn’t even have one of the first 56 votes. I think the case for him at #2 could be made.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I think Caps fans (way more than other fans) obsess about a player’s flaws. We’re the people who “whooped” a hall of famer (Larry Murphy). All Murphy did after that was win four Stanley Cups, but while he was in DC Caps fans couldn’t deal with the fact that his preeminent offensive skills far outweighed his suspect defense.
It’s why we love a guy like Matt Bradley. He doesn’t do anything particularly badly (never mind that no one part of his game is particularly strong either). Meanwhile, Sasha takes too many bad penalties, makes too many fancy moves, and just generally drives us crazy. And it keeps us from seeing how often he blows games wide open all by himself (in the good way). Green takes risks that end up in the back of the Caps’ net and, let’s be honest, he takes the occasional shift off too. So there’s a real contingent of Caps fans who would like to see Green traded.
Backstrom doesn’t really do anything wrong. We can quibble about faceoff percentages, but he even improved those at the end of last season. So I think that’s why he’s going to win this poll ahead of the #2 defenseman in the league (according to Norris voters).
I bet Semin doesn’t come in even fourth in these polls. He’ll probably be a grudging fifth or sixth. Which is crazy, but it’s our nature. We’re Caps fans — we don’t do well with fantastically creative offensive players who give up more scoring chances than we’d like.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 2, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think that’s in part because I’ve found that Caps fans are a very negative bunch of people on the whole, and just a little bit martyred.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I hate to think that those voters on the Norris read this blog and went “Eh, scratch Green for #1 and put Chara”
by red army line on Aug 2, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Will there be a single vote for anyone besides Backstrom in Green?
In my mind, it’s Backstrom without a doubt. Ovie can’t score all those goals on his own.
"My face is my mask."
It’s Green for me — a lot easier to find a playmaking center (to the caliber of 60-70 a season like Backstrom) than it is to find a defenseman who can score 30 (of which there are none).
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
I went with Bäckström. Green is the frosting of the cake, to have a d-man like him is fantastic but a team can still preform well without one. But without a bona fide number one center man no cup. The depth at d in the organization is great no player as good as Green obviously, but I can’t see who would step up to be the number one center.
to the caliber of 60-70 season like Backstrom
Considering Nick has essentially eclipsed those markers in just his first two years, surely you have him confused with someone else. Backstrom will hover 85-100 for the next several years, and that’s not as easy to replace….Not saying your thinking is awry—Green is a stud—but offensive defensemen, even the elite ones, come a notch below centers of Backstrom’s variety.
from the house that Red Jesus built
I think Hooks was referring to assists when he said 60-70 for Backstrom, not points. At least that is what I assumed.
I tend to think it’s faint praise instead, and even if he was referring to assists only, 60-70A is not an easy replacement at all. Here’s the group of 8 with 60+ helpers last year.
1. Evgeni Malkin-PIT 78
2. Sidney Crosby-PIT 70
3. Ryan Getzlaf-ANA 66
Nicklas Backstrom-WSH 66
5. Pavel Datsyuk-DET 65
6. Marc Savard-BOS 63
7. Joe Thornton-SJS 61
8. Henrik Sedin-VAN 60
…and so on. Early call here: 14 years/71M with a pocket of dust in the last 3 years 5 years/31M.
from the house that Red Jesus built
Even then there’s 8 guys who got 60+ assists.
There’s only been one guys in the past 15+ years to score 30 goals from the blueline. And that was my point.
Backstrom’s a hell of a player, wasn’t trying to give him a backhand compliment or anything…Just saying I favor Green’s unique abilities as a one-man breakout and his power-play prowes.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
And by “prowes” of course I meant prowess.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Defensemen with 30 goals:
1. Mike Green – WAS 31
Defensemen with 25 goals:
1. Mike Green – WAS 31
Defensemen with 20 goals
1. Mike Green – WAS 31
2. Shea Weber – NSH 23
3. Sheldon Souray – EDM 23
Defensemen with 11 PPG
1. Mike Green – WAS 18
2. Sheldon Souray – EDM 12
3. Zdeno Chara – BOS 11
Defensemen ALL TIME for PPG in one season
1. Sheldon Souray – MTL 19 (06-07)
2. Denis Potvin – NYI 18 (75-76)
3. Adrian Aucoin – VAN 18 (98-99)
4. Mike Green – WAS 18 (08-09)
Defensemen averaging 1.0 point per game
1. Mike Green – WAS 1.07
Defensemen averaging 0.9 points per game
1. Mike Green – WAS 1.07
Defensemen averaging 0.8 points per game
1. Mike Green – WAS 1.07
2. Andrei Markov – MTL 0.82
Defensemen EV +/- ON/60 (60 or more GP)
1. Mike Green – WAS 1.37
2. Steve Montador – BOS 1.33
3. Dennis Wideman – BOS 1.28
4. Mark Stuart – BOS 1.27
5. Nicklas Lidstrom – DET 1.25
6. Mike Mottau — NJD – 1.09
by Gould Old Days on Aug 2, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oops, left one out:
Defensemen with 60 points
1. Mike Green – WAS 73
2. Andrei Markov – MTL 64
by Gould Old Days on Aug 2, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right cluster, I meant to have 60-70 assists, not points. Honest typo mistake on my part.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
Me too. As I said above, Backstrom’s the man behind the curtain. He makes the power play tick, to my mind.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Backstrom would not be a 80-90 point player without Ovechkin
I voted for Green. Love love love Nicky, but he’s one of 10 or 15 elite first line centers out there. Green is one of 3 or 5 Norris Trophy contenders for the next bunch of seasons. Ovy’d be a 2 time MVP playing next to Crosby, Shrek, Vinny, Datsyuk, Getzlaf, Thornton, Savard, Mike Richards, etc.
by bilspacecadet on Aug 2, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Backstrom would not be a 80-90 point player without Ovechkin
I’m not certain about that…I could see Nick putting up a ton of points with Semin at the LW with him full time, not to mention some first liners on other teams [sucks teeth]….
This kid is a must lock up.
from the house that Red Jesus built
Backstrom would not be a 80-90 point player without Ovechkin.
Or would Ovechkin not be a 60 goal scorer without Backstrom?
"The passion of our supporters cannot be contained by clothing."
I’ve been running this through my mind since I first saw the question. Green or Backstrom? No question Backstrom makes Ovechkin great, but think about this — in 2005 – 06, his rookie year, Ovechkin scored 52 goals and had 54 assists. Who was his center that year, Jeff Halpern? Hey, I love the guy, but he’s no Nicky.
So I guess that means I’ve decided to give my vote to Green.
Okay – but what were the stats for other players? This team didn’t have the ‘young guns’ – your next highest in points were Zubrus with 57 and Halpern with 44. Compare that to now, where you’ve got 4 players all in the 70+ range. They feed off eachother, and I’d suggest that Green benefits just as much from Backstrom as Ovechkin does. The same goes for Semin.
Would Green be a 30-goal D without Backstrom?
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Would he have set a Caps record 18 PPG for a defenseman without Backstrom?
by Gould Old Days on Aug 2, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Would Backstrom have been 4th in the League in PPA without Green’s bomb from the point?
This is fun – we can talk in circles all day (it’s like verbal Nylandering!).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Aug 2, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
Nylander’s been verbed!!! w00t!
Let's go Caps!
by MikeL-Pivonka on Aug 3, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Both those things might be true. It’s more than just two really good players; when they’re together, the line is greater than the sum of its parts. Which is why I opted for Backstrom.
by CapitalCentre on Aug 2, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I voted Backstrom because we don’t have anyone in the organization that could play 1C, and we have at least two other D that could play top pair. In all likelihood neither Carlson or Alzner will replace Green’s offensive contributions but with AO and Backstrom locked up offense will never be our problem. The C ranks behind Backstrom are pretty lean to say the least.
To me, it’s Backstrom, but not because of his points. On points alone, Green wins. It’s that Backstrom is a hell of a two-way player. I kept watching him the second half of last year thinking, this guy’s going to win the Selke in the next few years. Backstrom’s an incredibly responsible player – something the other two stars on the team aren’t known for, and that’s why he’s so valuable to the team. While Ovie and Green fly up and down the ice seeking the highlight goal, Backstrom will quietly backcheck his mark off the puck in the defensive zone and start the rush the other way. It’s damn impressive, and sooner or later, he’ll get noticed for it.
Putting up 80+ points don’t hurt a bit either, though.
by katzistan on Aug 2, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Ok…..who voted for Tom Poti?
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
JSchon
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Aug 3, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tough Choice
…it was either Backstrom or Green, and in the end I had to go with Green only because his time on ice is going to be higher than Backstrom. I’m pretty sure that the #3 on the Caps would be the other of Green and Backstrom with Semin coming in at #4.
Let's go Caps!
I voted backstrom over green, because NB cannot be replaced from within. I can see Carlson developing into a Mike Green type (lots of points, good on the PP) but I don’t see a legit top center in the caps system anywhere. I’m not saying Carlson could step in for Green right now by any stretch, but he’s tracking to be the same type of DMan that Green is. No one in the caps system is tracking to be an 80-90 point center in my eyes.
With this one well in hand for young Nick, I’ve launched the next one.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
54 | 26 | 17 | 11 | 63 |
|
Washington
|
54 | 28 | 21 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
57 | 26 | 25 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
54 | 24 | 24 | 6 | 54 |
|
Carolina
|
56 | 20 | 25 | 11 | 51 |
(updated 2.12.2012 at 8:46 AM EST)
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