Ranking the Capitals: #17
by J.P. on Aug 18, 2009 6:12 PM EDT
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PrintIn an effort to beat the summer doldrums, we're undertaking to rank - with your help - the Washington Capitals, from Ovechkin to, well, we'll see. The criteria is simple: who at this moment is the most valuable player in the organization who hasn't already been ranked? Put another way, if you could only keep one of the remaining players - because of what he brings on the ice or off it, his upside, what he could fetch in trade, and so on - who would it be? Consider age, potential, contract status, organizational depth, etc. - it's your call. And after you vote and defend your selection in the comments, help us out and suggest a name to add to the next poll. [Note: previous "Ranking the Capitals" posts can be found here."]
Welcome Eric Fehr to the list, and Braden Holtby to the poll...
If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's editors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.
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And after you vote and defend your selection in the comments, help us out and suggest a name to add to the next poll.
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Mathieu Perreault. He was as impressive as Osala as a rookie in the AHL and he’s the only guy under contract that could even potentially become a long-term 2C.
That was my thinkin’ as well.
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Voted for Boyd Gordon, get Chris Bourque on that list.
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Reminder: here’s the contracts we’re ranking:
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=648242
Holtby, Bourque, Gustafsson and Beagle are the class of the Hershey pack for me.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 18, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
bourque argument: i haven’t written him off as a top-6 forward yet, and he could be with the big club full-time as early as this season.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 18, 2009 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
if i told you that a future selke trophy winner was still available as the 17th most valuable capital, would you pass on him? :)
Not as long as Hank and Datsyuk are putting up 80-90 points and shutting down their own end. Not as long as Mike Richards is scoring 7 SHG a year. I like what he brings, but Boyd doesn’t have the offense to challenge for that award.
oh we’re playing those games, are we? well then BLAM!
now that’s value. c’mon ladies, don’t forget about ol’ boyd.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 18, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Well the two guys with the eye candy are out to a quick lead so it looks like your tactics are superior…
at this point you’re just helping theo win. the boyd bandwagon still open for business.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 18, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions
so you’d trade gordon today for an osala-type prospect? O2 really is my next choice…i just don’t like where that trade leaves our team the next two or three years. (and of course, gordon could be around a while longer.)
is it more because you’re confident in O2’s development, or because of the caps’ lack of impact young wingers not named alex?
also, does losing gordon force nylander into the lineup this year? do we play laich out of place? maybe aucoin gets the call? none of those three bring anywhere near the defensive prowess of gordon, and all of them would probably mean pushing steckel back to the 4th line.
last question: how likely is it really that the caps could trade for another boyd gordon midseason? you threw out betts’ name, but he’s one of the more talked about young checking line players in the league right now. are there really a ton of boyd gordons floating around? (honest question.)
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 18, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Nyls, Aucoin and the rest are irrelevant. Those guys haven’t been chosen so they aren’t on the roster yet. In a vaccuum I would trade away Gordon to get Osala. Fourth line guys can be found. Would moving Boyd put this roster in a pinch? Yeah. But if there is a chance of losing one of the two I’d rather GMGM keep Osala. Assuming GMGM has the chance to fill out the roster (i.e. it doesn’t happen in the middle of the season) Boyd’s role can be replaced for cheaper than Osala’s role. Boyd Gordon is a very good 4th line C, one of the best in the league I’d bet. But he’s still a 4th line C.
I’d rather keep Gordon. Osala’s had some nice runs, but he hasn’t proven much to me yet. He doesn’t have the pedigree that other players in the system have. If he scores 30 goals this year, I’ll probably feel differently.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 18, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
in a vacuum you’d trade them straight up (i still wouldn’t), but i thought you lowered varlamov’s value slightly because of the existence of neuvirth? that decision wasn’t made in a vacuum, and neuvirth hadn’t been selected.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 18, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
even as a 4th line center (i.e. even with david steckel on the team), boyd averaged only a minute and a half less TOI than flash, and more than 2 minutes more TOI than fehr who doesn’t make it out for many PP’s. a top PKer and one of the best 4th line centers in the league has more value to me than 2nd liners that aren’t cutting the meat, and more value than a projected 2nd liner that’s still 2-3 years away from the big league. i can’t go along with a flat “no 4th-line C is as valuable as osala,” particularly when we’re talking a player who could easily slide into line 3 were steckel to depart as a UFA.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 19, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I like Gordon, and I’m glad he’s on the team, but I have to go with Osala here. The big banging body that isn’t afraid to get into the mix and still has talent just doesn’t grow on trees. He may not make the big club out of camp this year, but I have to think he is a big part of the Caps plan for the future. Unfortunately for Gordon, he is still easy to replace.
by HateOffSeason on Aug 18, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
it’s easy to find a fourth line center…i’ll buy that. i don’t think it’s easy to find one as good as gordon, who could easily fit on the 3rd line.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 18, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, which is why I do like having him on the team. But that is his upside.
Osala’s upside is to be like a Mike Knuble type. If those guys were easy to find, we wouldn’t be drooling over picking him up at age 37 and have him listed as 8th most valuable on our team without having played a single game for us.
by HateOffSeason on Aug 18, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
still just 25, gordon hasn’t maxed out his potential.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 18, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
my counter is that we were still able to get a mike knuble on the open market, and only for $2.8M per season. if osala were a sure thing, i’d agree with you. but my preference is the money in the bank.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 19, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll chalk up the early Gordo lead solely to today’s “Catching up with Gordon” piece in the Post. He’s on the brain.
I think Theo leaks sneaks in at 17.
Could very well be Theo’s spot. Only problem I have with Theo is value. I just don’t think he’ll have more starts than Varlamov this year. With his contract, he isn’t tradeable. And that means he just walks away next year as a FA. He may still be good, I just don’t see him as particularly valuable unless both of our young goalies get seriously injured.
by HateOffSeason on Aug 18, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s totally tradeable, though, as we’ve discussed in the past. Best part about Theo is if he isn’t playing well/Varly’s playing great still, he’s able to get traded. His high number is bad, but with only one or two months of actually having to pay the guy against the cap, a team that is looking for that veteran presence in net trying to sneak into the playoffs (Say, the LA Kings, if they’re making a run, or the Oilers or even the Habs). Chalk up injuries, anything can happen.
And if he is playing great, and Varls isn’t, or Varls is hurt, Theo is in a contract year, where he’s usually worth his overpriced next deal, he is an experienced goalie who can take us to the playoffs.
And if he’s absolute dreck, then we can let him go at the end of next season with no questions asked. Not everyone on a team has that luxury.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
Rumors of Theo's contract year dominance have been greatly exaggerated
He had an inconsistent and mediocre year in COL before we signed him. The fact is he just hasn’t been that good since the lockout.
He’s totally tradeable, though, as we’ve discussed in the past.
If you’re implying there has ever been some sort of consensus that he is tradeable, that’s wrong. I think you’re just invoking your past arguments, but just making sure. I can understand how he’d be tradeable if he was having a good year, but I can’t figure out who on earth would want him if he wasn’t playing well. There are a ton of goalies that bring his “veteran presence” for half the money (or less) and better consistency.
I hear ya, but we’re getting to a place in the rankings where, in my opinion, it’s less about potential and trade value, and more about “who would the team miss most in the lineup”, or “who brings something unique/hard to replace”. Yes, I’m making up my own criteria at this point :)
Something just tells me that once or twice, or more, during the season, Theo’s veteran netminder presence will pay off.
(Game 2, Pens v Caps, NHL Network….now!!)
I sure hope so. It’s so great that we’ll have a steady veteran hand to teach the kids how to remain mentally stable and physically consistent over the long grind of an 82 game season. And his contract is an absolute steal!
Michael Nylander is nothing if not mentally stable.
/C’monnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn Omsk!
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Aug 18, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
For me it was between Bradley and Gordon — and I admit that today’s CI story did tip the balance his way.
by CapitalCentre on Aug 18, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone who thinks goalies are stereotypically fat can look at this picture.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
Heh. I had to look that word up (propecia, not metabolism).
Fear the Rebel Polar Bears (trust me, this sig makes sense)
by crabchowdah on Aug 18, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
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by J.P. on Aug 18, 2009 6:59 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Gordon for me. I’ll take the 25-year-old who has proven his ability to contribute in a crucial role. I do think he’s considerably better than the average 4th line center, and it’s hard to imagine the Caps without him.
by Gould Old Days on Aug 18, 2009 11:03 PM EDT reply actions
Boyd here as well.
While it was a tough call between him and Osala, I had to give the points to a proven 4/3 liner over an unproven 3/2 liner at best. Boyd’s a proven commodity at the NHL level – he can win faceoffs and kill penalties better than anyone still remaining. Osala’s still a question mark as to whether he can play in the big leagues – from what I recall this past season his time up looked rather blah (admitting that the sample size was very small and it was, in fact, his first time up so he may have been a bit flummoxed by that). While I appreciate the potential of someone like Osala, I don’t think I can really value his particular potential over that of someone who is a proven value at the NHL level who will be locked up yet (at least in RFA terms) for a number of years and is still young.
A large improvement in production (i.e. the hopefully increased PP time and resulting goals that may be awaiting him now that he’s been in Hershey and proven he can hang) from Osala could swing my vote the other way after this year, though.
Much as I love Boyd, that a guy like Blair Betts is still a UFA speaks to his replaceability imo.
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I felt like Bett’s play was enough of a thorn in our side last year in that series that he, like Boyd, is underappreciated for the role he serves. A good PK can mask some hooking/holding mistakes we’re bound to make with our roster, not to mention the perpetually mind-boggling delay-of-game penalties that murdered us most of last year (we always seemed to pay dearly each time we took one).
I have a feeling I’m gonna lose this argument though, I picked the wrong guy to debate this with…
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
- Ferris Bueller
by war_capitals on Aug 19, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Betts and Gordo are comparable players, underappreciated for sure, but available. That’s all I’m saying. Oskar Osalas, on the other hand, aren’t as available.
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Especially with two healthy shoulders (if I’m making a correct association between O.O. and Fehr?)
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
- Ferris Bueller
by war_capitals on Aug 19, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I was under the impression that Fehr and Osala are both considered “crash the net” power forward types, maybe that’s not how you see them?
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
- Ferris Bueller
by war_capitals on Aug 19, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t describe any portion of Fehr’s role/tenure in DC as a “crash the net” power forward type. I’d say that’s what everyone wants him to be…but I have yet to see any indication of that coming to fruition.
/not a slam on Fehr at all…just not the role I’ve seen him play
Agreed. So far Fleischmann has shown a great deal more willingness towards (if not aptitude for) net-crashing than Fehr has. Which may be why Fehr’s game seems so maddening. His hot streaks tell you a good deal of what you might need to know about his hands, but a guy with his size could stand to be using it more, especially since he’s yet to establish himself as a consistent “hands-only” threat.
unsigned doesn’t mean unwanted………but i’ll go ahead and fess up, i didn’t realize betts was still on the market.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 19, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Because Allan Muir points out the Caps biggest weakness is the lack of a crease clearing d-man: Erskine. ;)
I don’t know whether to be happy or sad about the 2 unproven NHL d-men that rank higher on the value list than the 4 guys that (would have/or) did play the entire year in Washington last year.
And you can bet they rank even higher on the list that actually matters – GMGM’s.
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No question, the future looks bright. The thought of those guys and Green patrolling the back line for years to come makes me very happy. But I want to win now :) and there will be growing pains. The thought of Carlson and Alzner learning the job in the first round of the playoffs is a bit of a painful one.
But that’s not what this exercise is about, and the “value” of a Carlson (though I think he’s relatively untouchable) could be in bringing back “the piece” now, no?
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I get it. I’m not arguing with the list as it is. I agree that GMGM probably has both those guys higher on the list. To me, Carlson is more valuable to the team than Poti for exactly the reason you just mention.
I was just noting that at some point the rubber needs to hit the road and our most valuable players need to be the guys that get the ice time.
You definitely need to be happy about it…shows how the Caps system is continuing it’s evolution. This group isn’t as good as the next, but let’s be real…they’re still better than Jason Doig, Kiwi and JF Fortin.
“they’re still better than Jason Doig, Kiwi and JF Fortin.”
Thanks for the reminder on those guys, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little… Lepisto should be included in that Legion of Shame as well for being undressed as badly as he was during his time up here. Ooof!
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
- Ferris Bueller
by war_capitals on Aug 19, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
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