Backstrom isn't a top 50 player...at least according to Fanhouse
by b.orr4 on Aug 10, 2009 3:56 PM EDT
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If you’ve been following AOL’s Fanhouse countdown of the top 50 players in the NHL, you’ve probably been wondering where our Nik Backstrom was going to end up. After Alex Semin came in at 28 and Mike Green arrived at 26, many of us were figuring Nik would come in somewhere in the high teens. Well, I hate to disappoint you, but it’s pretty obvious now that Backstrom isn’t going to make the top 50 list. Jarome Iginla just popped in at the #5 spot and Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby and Datsyuk still haven’t been named. So I would say the chances are slim and next to none that Backstrom is going to make the list. For those of you keeping count, that means that the writer who compiled the list, Adam Gretz, has adjudged guys like Shane Doan, Brenden Morrow, Paul Stastny, Patrick Kane and the Sedin twins, just to name a few, to be better players right now than Nik. And I say “right now” because that’s the criteria the author used in determining who would make his top 50.
“It's simply about the best players right now. Well, it's my opinion of the best players right now. Age isn't a factor and, most importantly, contracts don't matter. This isn't about the best values, or the best contracts, or the players with the best long-term upside, it's just about the best players”, wrote Gretz.
If he had said he was basing who made the list on what they’ve accomplished over the course of their careers, I could understand a little better his leaving Backstrom off. However, by his own words, career achievements had nothing to do with his rankings. So, if we’re living in the “now”, based on last year you’d have to go all the way down to the #24 ranked player, Marc Savard, to find someone who scored as many points as Nik did last year. And all the way to the #19 ranked player, Ryan Getzlaf, to find someone who had as many assists.
And if you think one year is too small a sample, then compare the last two years for all the guys I listed at the top of the page. When you do that, only Henrik Sedin has a higher total (and that’s by just one point):
Henrik Sedin-158 points
Nik Backstrom-157 points
Daniel Sedin-156 points
Shane Doan- 151 points
Patrick Kane- 142 points
Paul Stastny- 107 points
Brenden Morrow- 89 points
Now, a couple of those guys, Stastny and Morrow, had injuries but shouldn’t durability be a plus in evaluating a player’s worth?
I know in the grand scheme of things, this listing means nothing and there are probably a lot of other deserving players left off. Here in Washington, we all understand what a special talent Nik is and given his age, there are only a handful of players I’d rather have before him. Still, when I see guys like Thomas Vanek ranked in the top 50, I have to wonder what Adam Gretz is thinking when he puts this list together.
For those of you that care, here’s the entire list to date. Based on his previous ranking, I can only guess who’s going to be his #1.
No. 50 -- Shane Doan, Phoenix Coyotes
No. 49 -- Brenden Morrow, Dallas Stars
No. 48 -- Paul Stastny, Colorado Avalanche
No. 47 -- Patrick Kane, Chicago Blackhawks
No. 46 -- Dan Boyle, San Jose Sharks
No. 45 -- Brian Rafalski, Detroit Red Wings
No. 44 -- Shea Weber, Nashville Predators
No. 43 -- Tomas Kaberle,Toronto Maple Leafs
No. 42 -- Andrei Markov, Montreal Canadiens
No. 41 -- Scott Niedermayer, Anaheim Ducks
No. 40 -- Kimmo Timonen, Philadelphia Flyers
No. 39 -- Johan Franzen, Detroit Red Wings
No. 38 -- Anze Kopitar, Los Angeles Kings
No. 37 -- Jay Bouwmeester, Calgary Flames
No. 36 -- Jeff Carter, Philadelphia Flyers
No. 35 -- Dion Phaneuf, Calgary Flames
No. 34 -- Jason Spezza, Ottawa Senators
No. 33 -- Marian Gaborik, New York Rangers
No. 32 -- Daniel Alfredsson, Ottawa Senators
No. 31 -- Evgeni Nabokov, San Jose Sharks
No. 30 -- Thomas Vanek, Buffalo Sabres
No. 29 -- Sergei Gonchar, Pittsburgh Penguins
No. 28 -- Alexander Semin, Washington Capitals
No. 27 -- Martin St. Louis, Tampa Bay Lightning
No. 26 -- Mike Green, Washington Capitals
No. 25 -- Niklas Backstrom, Minnesota Wild
No. 24 -- Marc Savard, Boston Bruins
No. 23 -- Mike Richards, Philadelphia Flyers
No. 22 -- Zach Parise, New Jersey Devils
No. 21 -- The Sedin Twins, Vancouver Canucks
No. 20 -- Rick Nash, Columbus Blue Jackets
No. 19 -- Ryan Getzlaf, Anaheim Ducks
No. 18 -- Eric Staal, Carolina Hurricanes
No. 17 -- Chris Pronger, Philadelphia Flyers
No. 16 -- Dany Heatley, Ottawa Senators
No. 15 -- Marian Hossa, Chicago Blackhawks
No. 14 -- Vincent Lecavalier, Tampa Bay Lightning
No. 13 -- Ilya Kovalchuk, Atlanta Thrashers
No. 12 -- Zdeno Chara, Boston Bruins
No. 11 -- Martin Brodeur, New Jersey Devils
No. 10 -- Henrik Lundqvist, New York Rangers
No. 9 -- Joe Thornton, San Jose Sharks
No. 8 -- Henrik Zetterberg, Detroit Red Wings
No. 7 -- Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit Red Wings
No. 6 -- Roberto Luongo, Vancouver Canucks
No. 5 -- Jarome Iginla, Calgary Flames
If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's editors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.
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Until Backstrom starts putting up points on his own accord there is no reason to recognize him as a top talent. Secondary-assisting your way to the top ten in scoring isn’t as impressive as singlehandedly failing to score in the top 25 in the league. At least 95% of Backstrom’s points came off pucks that bounced off his skate or shinpad right to AO. This list is definitely reserved for guys that earned their stats.
I can think of a couple guys in a city north west of here who benefit for secondary assist off each other……
And the unanswerable question comes up again: does Ovechkin put up the points he does because he plays with Backstrom? And if Backstrom is his set-up man, allowing Ovie to score at rates that no one else can reach, and that allows the Caps to win a few more games, does that mean Backstrom should belong in the conversation regarding elite players?
My comment was 100% sarcastic. I think Backstrom is elite. I think the fact that AO’s points went down this year but Backstrom’s went up goes a long way towards debunking the “Backstrom feeds off of AO” argument.
I can think of a couple guys in a city north west of here who benefit for secondary assist off each other……
In five-on-five play Malkin and Crosby were first and fourth in the NHL in primary assists per sixty minutes in 08-09. In 07-08 Crosby was first and Malkin was ninth. That either one of those guys is only racking up numbers because of high second assist totals is at least as much a meme as Backstrom’s production solely being the result of playing with Ovechkin.
while i support your outrage and i support the amount of work that went into this fanpost, i can’t support the amount of “rink juice” (internet hits) that will go FanHouse’s way because of this post. hopefully after another bump in production next year, even casual hockey fans will recognize how many of these C’s would be slotted on the caps’ second line behind nicky B.
hopefully after another bump in production next year, even casual hockey fans will recognize how many of these C’s would be slotted on the caps’ second line behind nicky B.
Who would you have Backstrom in front of? I can see making an argument for him in front of Franzen, Statsny, and Spezza, but I think those are all six versus a half dozen.
Those guys and Savard. Savard equaled Backstrom in points but doesn’t bring the same all around game. I’d also take Backstrom over “The Sedins.” There are a few other guys I’d take Backstrom over but it sounds like you’re trying to keep it to centers.
Oh, and there’s one more C on that list that I’d personally take Backstrom over, but I’m not too anxious to get back into that debate.
Those guys and Savard. Savard equaled Backstrom in points but doesn’t bring the same all around game.
I agree that Savard’s game isn’t as well rounded but I also think it’s worth noting he scored goals 115% more often and registered primary assists 20% more often than Backstrom at even strength.
Noted. Backstrom is more physical, better on the boards and in the corners, and better defensively. It may not be fair to hold against him, but persistent rumors that Savard is a bit of a diva turn me off as well. I know it’s outside the parameters of Getz’ argument but Backstrom is also younger and has way better upside. I think Backstrom’s goal totals will steadily increase as he gets used to shooting more in the NHL. Savard puts up good numbers and was pretty entertaining mic’d up at the ASG but I’ll take Backstrom in Getz’s one year hypothetical or in real life.
Oh, and there’s one more C on that list that I’d personally take Backstrom over, but I’m not too anxious to get back into that debate.
and even in that example, many of the canes fans ceded backstrom as the first line center on a team with AO.
by Natty Bumppo on Aug 10, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t hate on Vanek, the guy was like + a million two years ago. Also he avearages about 35 goals a year, and is plays well both ways.
If this is supposed to be top 50 right now, I would take more of an exception to Mary Gaborik. Gaborik can be an elite scorer but he’s ALWAYS hurt, good luck with the gimpy groin on MSG ice.
Also I’ve always admired Martin St. Louis but outside of his monster year I’m not sure he’s top 50 in the world. But maybe that’s just because he picked up too much recent TB stink.
Backstrom is such an underrated player that you have to wonder how much of that is do to playing behind the mega-nova that is Ovechkin. The fact that he was asked to go and play in the kiddie pool at the All-Star game ( aka the Young Guns game) is further proof that even the people who cover the game for a living and the NHL brass themselves don’t appreciate what a talent he is. No way of proving it, but I bet if you went to the 29 other rinks and asked fans to name the top ten scorers in the league, no one would list Nik. Hell, I bet if you did that at Verizon you’d be lucky to get 50% who’d have him in that grouping.
I don’t know how the voters for the AS reserves missed the #5 scorer in the NHL
by red army line on Aug 12, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Further to that point, if you offer up “who is the youngest top 10 scorer” how many people do you think get it? I’m sure a ton of people would say Kane in that scenario.
This is all GOOD! When the negotiations for Backstrom’s extension come up, we can use this article as proof that he’s not worth $7M / yr, right? /sarcasm
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
- Ferris Bueller
by war_capitals on Aug 10, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Shane Doan, Brenden Morrow, Paul Stastny, Patrick Kane and the Sedin twins
yes, yes, yes, no, equal, equal
from the house that Red Jesus built
Can’t resist: I totally called this.
I can understand why people who don’t follow the Caps closely don’t notice Backstrom’s brilliance, but it is a little troubling to me that this guy must have seen the stats from last year and chose to overlook Backstrom. It’s unavoidable fact that Backstrom gets a lot of assists because Ovie is such a great goal scorer, but those who watch the team closely know that Backstrom can get anyone to score. Hell, I remember the Caps put him out there centering Flash and Kozlov one game late last year and his line produced two goals.
I think if you asked coaches and GMs in the Eastern Conference (at least) to do a list like this, he’d rate higher. For now, hopefully this disrespect will help come contract time.
The assist to Poti at the end of game 3 against the Rags was one of the prettiest assists I’ve ever seen. His assist on the second goal was one of the best shifts a player could have; he robs a goal at one end, then lays Callahan (or Dubinsky?) flat while retaining control of the puck, then dishes it off to get a SECONDARY assist on Semin’s goal. Great shift.
SHHHHH!
We need this kind of propoganda to get him signed to a reasonable contract. ;-)
I’m sure he just brain farted and put the wrong team next to #25. RIGHT?
Russian Machine Never Breaks
My buddy’s a huge Wild fan, and I can live with Nick “G” Backstrom making this list, as opposed to Nick “C” Backstrom (and I also propose that this is the way we keep these two straight, lacking any other discriminator).
Still, our boy got a little robbed but that’s OK. This way, they’ll never see him coming until its too late! MWUHAHAHAA!!! : ] <—- evil genius laugh
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
- Ferris Bueller
by war_capitals on Aug 11, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Sameish Name Guy (SNG)
Simple enough, right?
Fear the Rebel Polar Bears (trust me, this sig makes sense)
by crabchowdah on Aug 11, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Yup – the C has a “c” in his name. Simple enough.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
You mean oral discourse (this, as well as speaking to one another, is verbal discourse).
It’d be easiest (and fitting) if Niklas Backstrom just changed his name to Niklas Backstop.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Oof. Reding FAIL for me.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
- Ferris Bueller
by war_capitals on Aug 11, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
For those still keeping score...
Gretz just put Datsyuk at #4 and Crosby at #3. Given his allegiance, anyone want to guess who he’s going to annoint #1?
Does anyone care?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Aug 11, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But after we’ve all had this discussion bitching about his rankings and discrediting his understanding of hockey what does it really mean even if he does rank AO 1? If he picks Malkin we just feel reassured that he has his head up his ass, if he picks AO does it make his previous 49 rankings anymore legit?
by Rob Parker on Aug 11, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thse things are important to consider when its time to line folks up at the wall for The Revolution.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
- Ferris Bueller
by war_capitals on Aug 11, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
From the comments here, we’re absolutely tame. Based on the saying that the enemy of my enemy is my friend, the Red Wings fans should be Cap fans new BFF.
Lord knows I was cheering like mad for the Wings last June, FWIW…
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
- Ferris Bueller
by war_capitals on Aug 12, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
although A2Y’s regulars seem really off the deep end that past couple of weeks. Very, very bitter at everyone.
My co-workers brother is a die-hard Wings fan, but man is he jealous that she see’s Ovie play a few games every season. He even gave the Ovie bobblehead we scrounged up for his birthday a place of honor. So A2Y’s regulars deep in that throes of August after losing the cup to the team that shall not be named aren’t really representative of all Wings fans. They’re just off their meds :)
I’ve found that too. Generally speaking, a Wings fans and Caps fans get-together is a mutual respect committee.
I found it interesting that the fans of teams not in the SC final this year generally rooted for the other conference’s team.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Hmmm.
From his Croby notes:
Some of you haven’t been too happy with my rankings to this point — or the players that haven’t been included — and I imagine the top three, regardless of the order, will be no different. And that’s fine. I’ve enjoyed the feedback, positive and negative, and the discussions it generated, and because of that, in some areas, some of my opinions have been swayed (we’ll get to that on Thursday).
Maybe Backs gets his due after all?
And we’ll be two days closer to the season, so that’s something.
IS PAЯTY NOW
And we’ll be two days closer to the season, so that’s something.
Exactly. It’s Aug. 11th, we’re still a month away from training camp and we’re running out of topics. (No offense to the secondary assists post) Any hockey talk that makes the hours pass a little faster is all good in my book.
Yes. What Gretz thinks isn’t worth a few mouse clicks but in August, it constitutes a momentary diversion from the heat and boredom of the off-season so thanks for the post. By the way, those people at A2Y are craaazy! Their hatred doesn’t just extend to the Pens though, Green and especially Ovechkin were targets as well. All that and I learned a new, snarky nickname for Ovi. The fun never stops in the big, wide world of hockey blogs.
Maybe we can make a better top 50 players list? One a day should do it exactly.
by red army line on Aug 12, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
And the #1 player is....
What a surprise, a Pittsburgh guy picks a Pittsburgh player as the best in the league. I know, jp, who cares? But I started this, so I’m dragging it across the finish line whether anyone wants me to or not.
To be sure, my “who cares?” wasn’t directed at your efforts, but more as an “f that” to Gretz.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Thanks for doing so – I needed a little indignation today.
I was willing to cut this guy some slack on the Backstrom thing, but this kinda confirms the homerism for me. If you want to say Malkin’s #1 and point to his cup, Conn Smythe, and takeaway numbers, fine. But don’t give me some lame “points per minute” justification. Those numbers are virtually identical, just like their overall points numbers.
There’s only one way to prove the naysayers wrong, and I can’t wait for the Caps to get to work on that.
A stat I'd like to see
Would be Ovie’s rotisserie ranking. How many fantasy drafts this year have Malkin or Crosby at #1? My guess is … not many.
IS PAЯTY NOW
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
53 | 25 | 17 | 11 | 61 |
|
Washington
|
54 | 28 | 21 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
56 | 26 | 24 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
53 | 23 | 24 | 6 | 52 |
|
Carolina
|
55 | 20 | 25 | 10 | 50 |
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