Sailing The Trade Routes With GMGM
by Stephen Pepper on Jul 6, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
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"[I]t's really hard to make a trade right now. It's the cap and free agency. There's a lot more free agency now. If you've got a guy who has one year [remaining on his contract] and the other guy has two years, it deters you from doing things. Teams are also trying to fill their needs during free agency in the summer and are reluctant to give up [assets] during the season." - Capitals GM George McPhee, November 5, 2007.
What was true a year and a half ago is still very much the case today: it's extremely difficult to pull off trades in the big league. But the art of the deal also happens to be McPhee's forte. While the team still has a couple of holes to patch in its Stanley Cup contending roster (most significantly the second line center position), the free agency period is only a starting gun, not a finish line. And the trade has always been the most likely method of repair utilized to fix those holes.
Here's a rough breakdown of how each post-lockout Cup champion was built (using discretion in including all players who made a significant impact on the team), followed by the current makeup of the 2009-10 Caps (assuming that all RFAs who received QOs a few days ago are resigned):
| Draft | Trade (Deadline*) | FA | Waiver | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pittsburgh, 2008-09 |
9 | 6 (2) | 6 |
1 |
| Detroit, 2007-08 |
10 |
3 (0) |
10 | 0 |
| Anaheim, 2006-07 |
2 |
10 (1) |
8 | 3 |
| Carolina, 2005-06 |
6 |
13 (3) |
7 | 0 |
| Washington, 2009-10 |
9 |
4+? (?) |
9 |
0 |
* Trade deadline acquisitions in the Cup-winning season.
Looks to be about in line, doesn't it?
Perhaps McPhee's best work in the trade department is yet to come, several months from now. There certainly hasn't been a more crucial time in McPhee's career as Caps' GM than in this upcoming 2009-10 season to pull off a move to vault the club to the Finals, be it one made during the languid days of summer . . . or in early March. Patience, grasshopper.
After assessing the career work of George the free agent provocateur, and before that GMGM the drafter, we review here the body of work of Trader George. And what we find is a quite impressive record, ranging from decent swaps to downright fantastic fleecings. McPhee has made dozens of deals during his tenure -- many of them were picks-for-picks, or deals involving strictly minor league depth, or exchanges of prospects that never blossomed, or for those nebulous future considerations (for example, D Enrico Ciccone was once dealt straight up for cold, hard cash) -- but let's focus on his top 15 most significant trades, to wit:
- 1998-03-08 -- acquired Esa Tikkanen from Panthers for Dwayne Hay and a conditional 1999 pick (#103-Morgan McCormick)
- 2001-03-13 -- acquired Dainius Zubrus, Trevor Linden, and a 2001 second round pick (#61-Andreas Holmqvist - later dealt by Caps) from Canadiens for Jan Bulis, Richard Zednik, and a 2001 first round pick (#25-Alexander Perezhogin)
- 2001-07-11 -- acquired Jaromir Jagr and Frantisek Kucera from Penguins for Kris Beech, Michal Sivek, Ross Lupaschuk, and future considerations
- 2001-11-10 -- acquired 2002 first round pick (#17-Boyd Gordon) and 2003 third round pick (#94-Zach Stortini - later dealt by Caps) from Canucks for Trevor Linden and 2002 second round pick (#55-Denis Grot)
- 2002-03-19 -- acquired Maxime Ouellet, 2002 first round pick (#26-Martin Vagner - later dealt by Caps, see below), 2002 second round pick (#59-Maxime Daigneault), and 2002 third round pick (#92-Derek Krestanovich) from Flyers for Adam Oates
- 2002-06-12 -- acquired 2002 first round pick (#13-Alexander Semin) from Stars for 2002 first round pick (#26-Martin Vagner), 2002 second round pick (#42-Marius Holtet), and 2003 sixth round pick (#185-Francis Wathier)
- 2002-11-01 -- acquired Michael Nylander, 2003 third round pick (#83-Stephen Werner), and future considerations (2004 conditional third round pick) from Blackhawks for Andrei Nikolishin and Chris Simon
- 2004-02-18 -- acquired Brooks Laich and 2005 second round pick (#52-Chris Durand - later dealt by Caps) from Senators for Peter Bondra
- 2004-02-27 -- acquired Tomas Fleischmann, 2004 or 2005 first round pick (Capitals option) (2004 #29-Mike Green), and 2006 fourth round pick (#122-Luke Lynes) from Red Wings for Robert Lang
- 2004-03-03 -- acquired Shaone Morrisonn, 2004 first round pick (#27-Jeff Schultz), and 2004 second round pick (#62-Mikhail Yunkov) from Bruins for Sergei Gonchar
- 2005-08-04 -- acquired Chris Clark and 2007 seventh round pick (#199-Andrew Glass) from Flames for 2006 seventh round pick (#187-Devin DiDiomete), and 2007 sixth round pick (#155-Jens Hellgren)
- 2006-03-09 -- (re)acquired Kris Beech and 2006 first round pick (#23-Simeon Varlamov) from Predators for Brendan Witt
- 2008-02-26 -- acquired Cristobal Huet from Canadiens for 2009 for second round pick (#45-Jeremy Morin)
- 2008-02-26 -- acquired Matt Cooke from Canucks for Matt Pettinger
- 2008-02-26 -- acquired Sergei Fedorov from Blue Jackets for rights to Ted Ruth.
In the eleven instances where McPhee has faced the crucible of trade deadline dealing, he's been the "buyer" four times: 1998, 2001, 2003 (acquiring the oh-so-briefly a Cap, Sergei Berezin, for a 2004 fourth round pick), and, most notably, 2008. And in only two of those six purchases did he deal away a player on the active roster, and in three of those six swaps did he send away a first- or second round pick (or in Ted Ruth's case, an unsigned second rounder). McPhee has proven himself quite adept at executing successful "buyer's" trade deadline deals, and with limited or no impact to the team's daily lineup. Finally, for what its worth, he works equally with Eastern and Western Conference dance partners (seven and eight times, respectively, out of the above 15 trades).
The team retains all of its seven draft selections in 2010, and still has prospects at its disposal, already under contract and not anticipated to make an impact next season, that could be dealt, such as forwards Jay Beagle, François Bouchard, and Mathieu Perreault, defensemen Joe Finley and Josh Godfrey, and G Braden Holtby.
Bottom line is this: The Caps are right there, and there's plenty of time. What we're finally seeing unfold with this organization are the finishing touches on the time-tested model for building a champion. It's what has been beaten into our heads for years -- you build through the draft and with astute trades made both during the off-season and at the deadline, and add a precious few short-term veteran free agents to pull it all together.
And then there's that cliché that the Stanley Cup isn't won in July. Or in December. Or guaranteed by a 50-win season. Or even home-ice advantage. But get into salary cap trouble in July with too many "instant" free agent fixes, and that same 50-win team may find itself (again) incapable of executing the trade deadline deal to propel it into June playoff hockey.
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Perhaps San Jose’s front office would do well learning a thing or two from GMGM? :)
I need 100% of you guys to give 110% 100% of the time.
by capsfan4life on Jul 6, 2009 7:24 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Or Chicago’s :) Chicago’s in so much trouble next year it’s unreal.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Don’t you know? Chicago is destined to make the Stanley Cup Finals this year and lose, right?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
But they may be in cap hell if their RFA’s are declared UFA’s. That’s what I was referring to.
But you are correct about the Cup final. Hopefully, they lose to the Caps.
Hahah. Very, very true. Yeah, if their RFAs are declared UFAs by the league, Chicago is probably screwed. Although, there are still a lot of UFA’s out there and not a lot of teams have a lot of cap room left, so they might re-sign with Chicago for reasonable contracts. Or not.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
They’re in cap hell either way. I don’t see how they can afford to keep Barker and Versteeg even if they’re still RFA’s.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=283900
NHLPA has filed a grievance trying to make Versteeg, Barker free agents. Not that we could afford either one right now but it could get interesting.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
Not too surprised. Hopefully they can work something out.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
We can’t afford them, so I’d rather they stay where they are.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Barker just re-upped with CHI for 3 years @ $3.25M per. Versteeg is gone or someone needs to be moved. I had a feeling that Versteeg was the odd man out.
Barker just re-upped with CHI for 3 years @ $3.25M $3.08M per. Versteeg is gone or someone needs to be moved. I had a feeling that Versteeg was the odd man out.
You know how they could save some cap space? Byfuglien and Sopel for Nylander.
What? I’m just sayin’ is all….
If McPhee cons Tallon into that, I’ll call him JediGM.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
yea
wait till hossa demands a trade when CHI underperforms
by twistedlogic on Jul 6, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope we go after Versteeg/Barker when the NHLPA declares them UFAs.
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 6, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope we don’t o.o Want to cripple our salary cap?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I said “go after,” not “sign to a contract that makes our eyes bleed.” :-P
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 6, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
If they go UFA, any contract they’d sign probably would make our eyes bleed, truth be told.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
That said, I don’t think a single one of their roster players will leave and go elsewhere – there’s too much potential in Chicago. But you never know, someone may take a reasonable contract to be a roster player with another good team.
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 6, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably not. I know in their shoes I’d be inclined to be reasonable with Chicago and stay there, especially given the number of UFA’s still out there.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Possibly, but their skill/potential combined with their youth would make them VERY desirable UFAs to just about any team in the league. I could certainly see a team like LA, STL, CLB, or NYI going after either Barker or Versteeg pretty hard with all the extra cap room they have. It makes too much sense for the players because it’s just pretty unlikely that CHI will be able to pay them anywhere near what any of those teams could because of the Big 3 being up for contracts next year and the implications with the cap.
i feel like he demanded trades from both pitt and atl
but i could be wrong
by twistedlogic on Jul 6, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh? Hossa played in the Stanley Cup finals for them. When did he “demand” a trade?!
Nor did Hossa demand a trade from ATL. He was traded at the deadline in 2008 when he and the club couldn’t agree to an extension.
by TylerG on Jul 6, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec’d. Exactly so. Free agent instant fixes are how the Caps got into the Nylander mess :) Chicago’s built itself a world of hell, I think, for next season.
The only question left in my mind is – with Jurcina filing for arbitration and Mo, not, what do we do at defense with Alzner and Carlson waiting in the wings? D-men suddenly seem tradeable to me. What do the rest of you guys think?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I think its a possibility but I wouldnt be surprised to wait to trade any D until GMGM has time to see Karlzner and Carlson a little closer. We know this team as is can do well enough in the regular season to push for the playoffs.
Only if the right trade came up would GMGM trade away a D prior to the deadline.
What really stands out to me in that list of trades is that the only draft picks dealt that have amounted to anything are all players that are still on the Caps (Gordon, Schultz, Semin, Green, Varly). Sorry Stortini, you ain’t jack shiznit.
Whether its shrewdness or dumb luck, its nice to see that McPhee doesn’t have a traded draft pick that turned out to be “The One That Got Away”.
“The One That Got Away” is always an interesting way to look at it, but let’s be honest: half of drafting is pure luck. Nowhere is it suggested that the Caps would have picked the same player, and more than likely, they wouldn’t have.
So overall, even if it’s that “One” – well, 29 other teams probably passed over them once or twice too. It’s fun to think what could/would have been if those picks were made, but just not a likely outcome. :)
it’s starting to look like GMGM will need two first round picks every draft in order to nail that second pick (semin, green, carlson, etc.)! man that robert lang trade worked out well. even after turning the corner as a team, though, the caps will need to keep drafting well to stay out in front of the salary cap. keep bringing in extra picks, george.
by Natty Bumppo on Jul 6, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, that’s true of every team, everywhere. Welcome to the salary cap.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Welcome to the
salary capNHL.
Fixed that for ya :-).
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 6, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
this is usually where someone points out that the 1st round pick traded to Quebec for Dale Hunter was turned into Joe Sakic.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 6, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I’m so glad I didn’t write exactly that higher up in the thread before reading down further
by Gould Old Days on Jul 6, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I’m so glad I didn’t write exactly that higher up in the thread before….oh, never mind.
by bilspacecadet on Jul 6, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
An Amazing Record...
Looking at the 2004 Fire Sale then and now, and seeing what the results look like. Sure we gave up a lot then (Gonchar, Bondra, Nylander, Jagr, Grier, Lang) but the end result has worked out pretty good: Laich, Fleischmann, Green’s draft pick, Morrisonn, Schutz’s draft pick, etc. )
George has done well on the trade routes when he’s gone there. He doesn’t travel there often to be sure….
Let's go Caps!
Considering that what we gave up wasn’t working for us (stating the obvious, or we wouldn’t have given them up), it sure looks like a work of genius. Of course, it’s as much luck as smarts, but, wow.
It’s easier to conduct fire sales at a deadline than it is to creatively upgrade your team without a deadline.
Well, remember that this is all with 20/20 hindsight. Everyone whined and moaned at the time, right?
No. A lot of people whined and moan and frankly, I didn’t understand it. It was pretty clear that the team was broken and needed to be rebuilt from the ground up.
by David Getz on Jul 6, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bondra was the only one I was really shocked to see go. I figured something drastic’d happen, but Bondra, being my all time favorite player growing up, was absolutely earth-shattering to me.
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 6, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
That was the day I lost my childhood innocence when it came to Pro Sports. Anyone could be traded.
Not exactly Gretzky, either :-).
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 6, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
also remember
that the 2004 fire sale was pre-lockout and the caps were dumping the salaries simply to avoid having to pay them with no income from ticket sales etc
by twistedlogic on Jul 6, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
No one got paid during the lockout unless they were playing in Portland. Besides, except for Lang, I think they were expiring contracts,but I could be misremembering.
yea lang was expiring
the others were a salary dump
by twistedlogic on Jul 6, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
No, Lang’s contract was not expiring. He had signed a five year contract and traded during its second year.
Bondra, Nylander, Grier, and Gonchar were all expiring.
The 2004 fire sale was about the quality of the product on the ice for the most part.
we did a summary of the “rebuild” and looked at it a couple of times to see if grades changed.
If you've read this far...seek help.
That may be, but Bondra was cheap compared to the rest of that list at, what, 2m?
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 6, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
relative to the others yes
and how i hated to see him go. i used to wear number 12 in little league hockey in his honor
by twistedlogic on Jul 6, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Free agent signings may not be his best aspect, but he’s certainly great at trading.
That being said, a move of either Theodore and/or Nylander would only cement his skill.
and possibly get him nominated for sainthood.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
If he marches to Vatican City right now and makes it, I’ll believe that RedBirdie can do anything.
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 6, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
If he marches to Vatican City right now and makes it, I’ll believe that RedBirdie can do anything.
apparently, sex changing is one of my many skills :)
It’s a skill all women on a hockey board seem to share, isn’t it?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jul 6, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
well i didn’t sat he would get nominated next week :-)
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 6, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
(commenter note: by that i mean, it could happen hundreds of years down the line, not that I am predicting GMGM’s untimely demise. I realized that could have been misinterpreted.)
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 6, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know. I think he did the best he could with Theodore given the circumstances, and certainly I bless him for letting Huet walk. Man did we dodge a bullet there.
And certainly he seems to have learned about free agency and the pitfalls therein, plus take a look at this year’s free agent and tell me that’s not a savvy land :)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
oh no doubt, I had no problem with the Theodore signing last summer, and still don’t. It was seemingly the best and only option last summer, unless we wanted to roll the dice with signing a lifetime backups.
I was just having a little fun with the idea of how miraculous it would be to manage to trade either Nylander or Theo, and truth be told I am not even sure trading Theo is a good idea given the discussed to death fragile nature of Jonny and youth and inexperience of Varlamov and Neuvy.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 6, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Nowhere did I suggest bringing Theodore in was the wrong move. It was without a doubt the right move at the time – but it’s not the right move anymore.
Right, but hindsight is always 20/20, and I really can’t fault GMGM for making that deal even knowing the result. It was the best option he had at the time, and there was no way of knowing that Varlamov was going to come up and shine like he did.
It’s for this reason that GMGM is so right to be as cautious as he is in free agency. He’s made one smart move in free agency this year, and it’s likely otb e his only one. And I don’t fault him for that.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I love how this team is built & run
Leonsis and GMGM simply know what they’re doing. They get it.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 6, 2009 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This took a very long time to do…
Traded for…
Esa Tikkanen – 20GP 2G 10A – 21GP 3G 3A (playoffs)
Danius Zubrus – 333GP 86G 130A – 22GP 5G 3A
Trevor Linden – 28GP 4G 3A – 6GP 0G 4A (thats over 2 seasons)
Jaromir Jagr – 190GP 83G 118A – 6GP 2G 5A
Frantisek Kucera – 56GP 1G 13A
Boyd Gordon – 267GP 20G 46A – 21GP 0G 3A (Played at Hershey CC05, Portland)
Maxime Daigneault – DNP (Played at Portland, South Carolina and Hershey)
Derek Krestanovich – DNP
Alex Semin – 254GP 108G 108A – 21GP 8G 14A (Played 4 games @ Hershey)
Michael Nylander – 74GP 17G 41A – 6GP 3G 2A
Stephen Werner – DNP (Hershey and South Carolina)
Brooks Laich – 314GP 59G 71A – 21GP 4G 9A
Tomas Fleischmann – 191GP 33G 44A – 16GP 3G 1A
Mike Green – 242GP 52G 92A – 21GP 4G 12A (Hershey CC05)
Luke Lynes – DNP
Shaone Morrisson – 309GP 8G 42A – 21GP 0G 2A
Jeff Schultz – 174GP 6G 27A – 3GP 0G 0A (Hershey CC05)
Mikhail Yunkov – DNP
Chris Clark – 202GP 56G 52A – 8GP 1G 0A
Andrew Glass – HNP @ BU
Kris Beech – 64GP 8G 18A
Matt Cooke – 17GP 3G 4A – 7G 0G 0A
Sergei Fedorov – 70GP 13G 33A – 21GP 2G 11A
Cristobal Huet – 13GP 11W 2L 1.63GAA .936SV% – 7GP 3W 4L 2.93GAA .909SV%
Simeon Varlamov – 6GP 4W 1L 2.37GAA .918SV% – 13GP 7W 6L 2.53GAA .918SV%
Maxime Ouellet – 6GP 2W 3L 1T 3.12GAA .910SV%
Traded away…
Dwayne Hay – 77GP 2G 4A
Morgan McCormick – DNP
Jan Bulis – 371GP 71G 87A – 35GP 3G 3A
Richard Zednik – 488GP 137G 126A – 26GP 9G 7A
Alexander Perezhogin – 128GP 15G 19A – 6GP 1G 1A (in KHL now)
Kris Beech – 100GP 11G 19A
Michal Sivek – 38GP 3G 3A
Ross Lupaschuk – 3GP 0G 0A
Trevor Linden – 438GP 71G 93A – 39GP 4G 11A
Denis Grot – DNP
Martin Vagner – DNP
Adam Oates – 141GP 14G 59A – 26GP 4G 11A
Marius Holtet – HNP
Francis Wathier – HNP
Andrei Nikolishin – 109GP 11G 22A – 11GP 0G 2A (in KHL)
Chris Simon – 316GP 48G 50A 603PIM’s – 24GP 5G 3A 81PIM’s
Peter Bondra – 120GP 31G 36A – 7GP 0G 0A
Robert Lang – 285GP 79G 133A – 36GP 9G 14A
Sergei Gonchar – 275GP 47G 171A – 54GP 6G 31A (SC 2008/09)
Devin DiDiomete – HNP
Jens Hellgren – HNP
Brendan Witt – 222GP 2G 30A 344PIM’s – 10GP 0G 1A
Jeremy Morin – HNP
Matt Pettinger – 79GP 12G 9A
Ted Ruth – HNP
Total Traded for…
2805GP 559G 834A – 221GP 35G 69A
17W 6L – way above average GAA and SV%
Still playing on Caps…
Boyd Gordon – Solid 4th line C and cheap
Alex Semin – Top 15 winger in NHL
Brooks Laich – Gritty 2nd/3rd line role player
Tomas Fleischmann – Potential top 6 winger
Mike Green – Norris Trophy finalist
Shaone Morrisonn – Top 4 defensemen most of the time
Jeff Schultz – Top 4 defensemen most of the time and very young
Chris Clark – oft injured Team Captain
Andrew Glass – In college
Simeon Varlamov – Potential top 10 goalie
Total Traded away…
3190GP 554G 861A – 274GP 41G 84A
Still playing NHL…
Dwayne Hay – Done
Richard Zednik – Top 6 forward on a bad team
Jan Bulis – Done
Alexander Perezhogin – KHL
Kris Beech – SEL
Michal Sivek – Done
Ross Lupaschuk – SWE-1
Trevor Linden – Retired
Adam Oates – Retried
Andrei Nikolishin – KHL
Chris Simon – KHL
Peter Bondra – Retired
Robert Lang – UFA – still productive 2nd line C
Sergei Gonchar – Penguins – oft injured but still productive
Brendan Witt – Islanders – Shell of his former self
Matt Pettinger – UFA – never reached assumed potential
by JSchon on Jul 6, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
Good Lord, JSchon :)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
its not too late to make it a follow up!
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 6, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I think we should start a movement to get the KHL to rename themselves to the RHL (Retirement Hockey League)
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 6, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Better that than saying the KHL gets the NHL’s sloppy … never mind.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jul 6, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that the 2004 fire sale was pre-lockout and the caps were dumping the salaries simply to avoid having to pay them with no income from ticket sales etc
This can’t be emphasized enough. GMGM hasn’t been a position to trade a roster asset with the goal of improving the current club since the lockout. It’s great he’s stockpiled first round picks that have contributed (kind of like most other clubs have done with their first rounders, cough), but he’s in ground here that he hasn’t been in for a long time.
by asset I assume you mean roster player or borderline roster player (like a C-Bo). To be fair, the trades he made to acquire Huet, Fedorov and Cooke were done to improve the current club.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 6, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
To the latter first, understood, but the only guy of the three who was on the roster was Pettinger, who seemed to be in the doghouse by that point.
With the way things look organizationally, if he wants to acquire a forward/2nd line center, it’ll have to be with one of the 7-9 defensemen either at (or about to be on) the roster.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 6, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Outside of Carlson and the King, who aren’t going anywhere, I’d say it’s going to cost us more than one of the other Dmen, such as Juice + CBo +, to get close to a top 6 forward, particularly at center.
from the house that Red Jesus built
im not sure that id want to dump
anybody on the current roster that is capable of bringing in a top 6 F. semin could, but i dont want to see him traded (at least not right now).
would a package of guys such as the one mention above actually get us a decent center?
by twistedlogic on Jul 6, 2009 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t, and therein lies the rub, as offering flotsam isn’t going to get you what you want, with getting fleeced by Anaheim being on the other end of the spectrum.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 6, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
No … but what if you packaged up Flash, Aucoin, and a pick? I hesitate to package C-Bo because of a shortage of RW’s in the system, but we’ve got lots of up-and-coming centers who should be ready in a few years.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
No … but what if you packaged up Flash, Aucoin, and a pick?
To have a trade you have to have a trading partner, and I can’t think of anyone who would give a up a legitimate top six forward for Fleischmann and a pick (unless it was a first round pick). Aucoin’s a moot point because no one’s going to be that attracted to a career minor leaguer.
I haven’t given up on Aucoin yet, but time will tell.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Its easy to convince yourself that some combination of Mo/Juice/Fehr/C-Bo/Pick or two could land us a second line C . There may be some bottom tier team looking for a quantity over quality deal to help round out an NHL roster, and I am willing to bet GMGM was trying to do something along those lines at the draft but nobody was biting. And the reason nobody was biting is because teams like the Flyers overpay in blockbuster trades make the sellers a little more Greedy.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 6, 2009 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
who would those centers be?
Anton Gustafsson… has not played a game in anger in North America yet, and some folks project him (or did, see next entry) as a second line center. To me, he’s always looked more of the “third line” sort, but even at that, let’s see how he does on this side of the water in Hershey first.
Marcus Johansson… the latest long term candidate to center the second line. Scouting report reads like “Backstrom-lite.” Again, hasn’t yet played in North America… at least with Backstrom, he was described at the time as being the best player not in the NHL, or words to that effect.
Mathieu Perreault… a guy for whom size will always be a factor. Doesn’t seem to get a lot of attention these days as a sure-fire prospect.
And after that, there would be… uh…
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 6, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Rec’d. The organizational depth at center is totally unproven at best and non-existant at worst.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
The organizational depth at center is totally unproven at best and non-existant at worst.
Doesn’t that statement push the $4.875m ghost to the forefront of exploration?
Right or wrong, last year’s Fedorov signing didn’t make things down the middle all that clearer (if nothing else it shook out how the 3rd and 4th C’s should be), and in an era where folks are bracing for next year, unless a couple of B/C level roster players are moved for a Marleau-type C, the only viable option may be the most distasteful one, even if the Swedes are a intermediate-term viability?
/Pending whatever moves get done/minds get changed.
//That last sentence has business meeting written all over it.
by Bald Pollack on Jul 6, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec’d. The ? isn’t whether we should go out and get a #2C in my opinion. The REAL ? is whether Loopa-dee-loop can BE that #2C. We know he has the skills to do it. Unless something completely falls into GMGMs lap I think we will be seeing Nyls at #2C come opening night.
sooperdooperlooper
will be skating in circles around opposing defenses and scoring goals on his back like no other! i predict 15G and 50A. you heard it here first :-)
+1
but would dumping semin make us better? (imagine a sly, inquisitive facial expression)
by twistedlogic on Jul 6, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I prefer the expression “slanted eyebrow” – formatting may not allow
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 6, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
yes thats kinda what i was going for
but i didnt know how to do that with the keyboard
by twistedlogic on Jul 6, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I wonder if SBNation is clever enough to make the username links sensitive to the gender of the user? We could leave the males the current link color and make the females’ links, I dunno… SCARLET? Could avoid these awkward exchanges with a simple CSS entry? hehee : ]
well i probably should have picked up on the username anyways
no offense to any of you guys into sparkles
See?
Sex changes are among my many skills :)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Nothing we’d want to do, anyway. :-)
by gfcaps fan on Jul 6, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Now that’s where it gets murky. “Can do” and “want to do” are vastly different. Besides, how can we be sure you’re not lying to us if you don’t want to do it? “Oh, I don’t FEEL like walking on water, today.”
That’s totally unfair. :-P
by DrinkingPartner on Jul 6, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
TBD
I think McPhee has yet to really be “put to the test” in regards to having to make good hockey trades.
A lot of these were dumping vets for picks/prospects, or dumping picks/prospects for pending UFAs (an easier deal to make). What we need is a swap of legitimate NHLers, with the hopes of renewed success in the NHL.
I don’t want to see us deal any of our quality prospect talent, as it will be a huge part of our next 5 to ten years.
At the same time, picks alone are not going to generate the players we need in return.
So we need may need to move a Chris Clark or Brian Pothier to get the return we need.
Definitely an important summer for GMGM
George has also not yet demonstrated an ability to turn lead into gold or to cure cancer with duct tape and chewing gum.
You’ve gotta give something to get something, and Clark + Pothier isn’t going to get you anything. At all. In fact, it’s hard right now to envision an offer that includes either that isn’t better off without that inclusion, imo.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Except ducts. No lie – duct tape isn’t airtight :)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
fyi
We generally encourage people here to eschew the +1’ing and associated +[x]ing in favor of recommending a comment by clicking ‘actions’ and then ‘rec’.
by David Getz on Jul 6, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
can i ask why?
i wasnt recommending the comment. it was more of an allusion to the fact that the comment caused me to break down into fits of laughter and annoying the hell outta my office-mate :)
plus, when you make a comment awesome/funny/smart enough for people to rec enough times, it turns green!
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
I rec’d this one because it would look better in green.
by Gould Old Days on Jul 6, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
OK JP, I can accept that, then are there any scenarios you can see where we don’t give up an Alzner, Carlson, Neuvirth, or Varlamov AND get a legitimate # 2 center?
probably not now. Fedorov was had for a prospect, but that was a deadline deal. Teams on the outs in February might make a similar deal… not now, when everyone has hope (or at least the delusion of it).
If you've read this far...seek help.
So which of the following does George do:
- Sign a UFA Center
- Trade for a legit #2 and give up one of the kids (which kid?)
- Trade for an illegit #2 center, and sell, sell, sell.
- Let Brooks or another “already on the team” guy take the spot
???
4 is the only real option unless the team frees up some cap space and I don’t know who they’d move to free up as much space as they’d need.
…and thus ends the conversation. Laich or Nylander. Who knows? Nylander could surprise us. No reason not to be hopeful in July :)
by mechanicsville on Jul 6, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Hopeful? You’d best give up that CAPS FAN badge RIGHT NOW! </snark>
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
…the new era of caps fandom allows us to be hopeful. it’s so refreshing!
by mechanicsville on Jul 6, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe the team should just start the season with either Laich and Nylander competing for the 2nd line C pos. See which guy does the most with the opportunity. Then identify who of the youngsters will be ready to jump into the position. Save some cap space for trade deadline moves.
There are no teams without holes or positions of weakness.
Seems reasonable to me.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
yeah, I don’t think we can exactly be on autopilot, but I see no reason why the team as constructed can’t compete for/win the Southeast as is. An upgrade for the playoffs would be nice though
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
You can toss Aucoin into the mix too.* I’m not saying Aucoin will win the job, but he will work his patoot off and hopefully drive the competition to a higher level.
- literally — he’s small
by Gould Old Days on Jul 6, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions
What if George just stands pat at this point and waits to see what some of the guys he has can do? It’s not like the Caps had a terrible year last year even with some of the weaknesses we’ve all identified. They put up one of the five best records in the NHL even with Michael LoopDeLoop.
So, and I know this is crazy talk, what if Michael cuts back on the looping and starts playing the kind of hockey we suspect he can play? I know that’s kind of risky, but given that we’re not likely to upgrade the 2C position before the season starts, why no go with the guy we have even though he’s not the guy we want?
If nothing else, we look to shop him late in the season.
That’s pretty much where I’m at with it right now. Let’s stand pat for a bit and see what we’ve got. Certainly we need to see what Jurcina’s arbitration turns out to be before making many more moves. To me, it’s more critical that we have room to move at the deadline than that we have everything we need going into the season; what we’ve got should get us into the playoffs okay.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I don’t think GMGM is worried about the trade deadline. He thinks its sucker time. He thinks UFA leaves you paying too much for marginal talent. He also thinks that the waiver wire is good and that Laich is qualified to be a 2nd line center. He’s got this one year to do it right, or Ted’s going to put him out on his ass. This is year 5. I’d be trying to work trade magic if I were him.
I’m more at “let’s see what Laich can do if he’s paired with a wing with some playmaking skills like Semin, Fleischmann or Aucoin.” But the principle is the same. Perhaps there is a good solution right under our noses.**
** literally — Aucoin is very short
by Gould Old Days on Jul 6, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Its very likely. If they can’t solidify a top notch trade, they might as well use the marginal talent they have. If Aucoin plays well enough, you could always package him as part of the trade that upgrades the center position. If I have one gripe, though, its that the Caps are often not involved in deals that make me scratch my head, particularly when you regard every player as an asset. For example, Beauchemin went for 3 years, 3.8 million, to TORONTO. The Caps couldn’t lure him? I’d let Jurcina walk from arbitration and use the money on him. That way, you at least improve in one of two the areas left that need to be addressed. Do I think that he’s awesome? He’s pretty good. Is he injury prone? Injuries have been an issue with Beauchemin, and Nylander, and Fehr, and Gustaffson, and Johannsson, so I don’t think that injuries are the realistic factor. They’re not to Burke, and whatever anyone thinks of him, he builds pretty good teams. It’s interesting to watch what he does.
That suckers game McPhee alluded to got Guerin and Kunitz a Cup. Just sayin.
the problem is.
Even if you let Juice and Mo walk, Adding Beachemin at a 3.8 million cap hit, and rounding out our d with Jeff Schultz, Boyd Gordon and Eric Fehr at last year’s salaries (not even bothering to give them a QO raise) would leave the Caps with 21 players on roster (max is 22 i believe) and $333K over the cap.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jul 7, 2009 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I read this thread, and had some thoughts:
I’m not too good at analyzing sports business, but roster holes may not seem as big when you think about how well we dealt with injuries last year (if you get what I’m saying). On the other hand, having a bona fide player filling each roster spot is always better and too many injuries can destroy a team. Sorry for it being so confusing and pointless, it’s just my thought process.
In other news, I should probably introduce myself. I’m crabchowdah, a teenage die-hard
Caps and Red Sox fan. The guys on Over the Monster (SBN’s Sox blog) were shocked to find out that I was a girl, and I’m sure gotsparkly and RedBirdie can relate. Also, I helped lead to some of the OTMers referring to Oakland’s Bobby Crosby as “Pukey”. Thus, I have done my job as a Caps fan for today.
ZING! ZANG! ZUNG!
welcome aboard!
as a fellow Caps/Red Sox crossbreed, I’ll second that Crosby nickname.
from the house that Red Jesus built
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
53 | 25 | 17 | 11 | 61 |
|
Washington
|
54 | 28 | 21 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
56 | 26 | 24 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
53 | 23 | 24 | 6 | 52 |
|
Carolina
|
55 | 20 | 25 | 10 | 50 |
(updated 2.10.2012 at 9:27 AM EST)
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