Monday Caps Clips: ... And Then There Was Summer
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 6:44 AM EDT
in Caps Clips
131 comments
Your savory breakfast links:
- Development Camp has come and gone, and there are plenty of wrap-ups from Corey, CapsChick, and The Capital Letter, and a few "awards" (feel free to add your own in the comments), including:
- Tarik's Three Stars of Camp: Michael Dubuc, Mathieu Perreault, John Carlson
- Peerless's Three Stars fo the Week: John Carlson, Michael Dubuc, Braden Holtby
- Corey's All-Camp Teams - First Team: F-Mathieu Perreault, F-Michael Dubuc, F-Cody Eakin, D-John Carlson, D-Dmitri Orlov, G-Braden Holtby; Second Team: F-Trevor Bruess, F-Stefan Della Rovere, F-Garrett Mitchell, D-Zach Miskovic, D-Joe Finley, G-Garrett Zemlak
- Recaps of the final scrimmage from Vogs, Peerless, OFB and Puckhead's Thoughts, and pictures from Caps In Pictures.
- Bruess on what type of player he models his game after: "I like guys who are complete players, someone who can be a top-five goal scorer and is willing to fight for his team and do anything to win. That's what I'd like to be." [Capitals Kremlin]
- "Jay Beagle was once a nonroster guy. Now he has played seven games for the Caps - including four in the postseason. Miskovic and [Jake] Hauswirth were here last summer, and now they're back with contracts in hand." Who's this year's Cinderella story? [Washington Times]
- Bruce Boudreau on Anton Gustafsson: "He's an unknown right now. We'll wait until September and watch him in camp. He's a signed first-round guy who everyone says is a good player so we'll go with that." Uh huh. [Capitals Kremlin]
- The Caps have played the third-most games (regular season and playoffs) in the Eastern Conference since the start of the 2007-08 season, which is interesting, but here's a killer stat: "the Penguins have played 13 Stanley Cup finals games in the past two seasons, that’s as many as Washington, Philadelphia and Boston have combined to play in the past 22 seasons (their combined record: 1-12)." [PensBurgh]
- "Everyone outside of Vancouver may have forgotten, but [Brendan] Morrison can flat out play.... At $1.5 million for one year, Morrison could wind up with one of the NHL’s top PPD – points per dollar." [The Hockey News]
- John Tortorella speaks out on his new tough guy, Donald Brashear. My guess is Scotty Hockey's still not buying it. [NY Post]
- Tom Poti's bachelor party - what happens at Foxwoods stays at Foxwoods? [Boston.com]
- "Spanking-new and controversial." Yep: Hot Stick. [Jacksonville Observer]
- Keith Aucoin: born winner. [New England Hockey Journal]
- For more on the Keith Seabrook trade, check out the Calgary Sun and Calgary Herald.
- Sergei and Fedor Fedorov will wear mirror numbers - 18 and 81, respectively - for Magnitogorsk. Awww. [Russia Today]
- Four years ago today, "Alexander Ovechkin, the Washington Capitals' No. 1 overall draft pick last year, ended weeks of speculation about his immediate future ... when he chose the Capitals over his Russian hockey club." The world would never be the same again.
- Finally, Happy 59th Birthday to former Cap player and, more notably, head coach Terry Murray.
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“He’s a signed first-round guy who everyone says is a good player so we’ll go with that.”
Does the phrase, “pregnant with doubt” come to mind in reading that sentence?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 20, 2009 7:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Big time. It screams, “I’m not criticizing the GM, but… WTF?!”
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t say “screams.” It certainly demonstrates a high degree of uncertainty regarding Angus but I don’t interpret this as even hinting at calling out the GM. I’d say BB is probably pretty happy with what GMGM has given him to work with.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 20, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Peerless: Gabby’s response when asked about BabyGus wasn’t exactly a ringing endorsement of the player or what Gabby sees as his potential.
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I took it being more “he hasn’t had a chance to show us much these past two summers, so a lot of what we’re going on is his upside,” especially given his other interview where he sounds pretty satisfied with Gus’ performance this week, comparing it to Backstrom.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it wasn’t a ringing endorsement, but it wasn’t a “WTF” either.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 20, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crosby in the NHL isn’t really dominating, but he makes simple plays that end up being the smart, right plays. Not saying BabyGus is the next Crosby, but you don’t need to dazzle with skill all the time
by red army line on Jul 20, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crosby in the NHL isn’t really dominating, but he makes simple plays that end up being the smart, right plays.
That’s like saying OV isn’t dominating because he takes so many shots.
by Yoshietree on Jul 20, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Crosby makes the short backhand pass, whereas Ovechkin takes the puck up into the middle, curls it into his body, and shoots between the opposing player’s legs past the goalie into the net. Most of his shots are the flashy types. Anyone can make that pass, but not that shot.
by red army line on Jul 20, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crosby skates the puck through the neutral zone, beats at least one player, pulls other guys out of position, then is able to make a backhand pass right where it needs to be. Different skill sets, both amazing players. You simply cannot dismiss Crosby’s game even if you don’t like him.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 20, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Fact.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought I was saying he has the best combination of smarts and skill in the NHL
by red army line on Jul 21, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the “We’ll go with that line” is what really puts it in perspective. He didn’t want to give me his honest-to-god opinion, but at the same time, that says enough about what he really thinks.
Capitals Kremlin the second line center of the Caps blogosphere.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jul 20, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s a statement that can be read the wrong way. Gabby doesn’t scout the players in Europe, and the only two opportunities he’s had to evaluate Gus are the past two camps in which Gus got injured before he played a lot. Boudreau honestly hasn’t experienced what kind player Gus is, much less could be, so he has to go off entirely what the scouts and team management is telling him. Which is exactly what he said.
Honestly, you can apply whatever meaning you want to Gabby’s statement, but I think it’s skating dangerously close to putting words in the coach’s mouth.
by Forsch31 on Jul 20, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To put it another way — Gabby’s been at this long enough that he’s developed the skill not really saying anything while letting his lips move and sound escape his mouth. Boudreau may have an opinion about Gus after watching him this week, but he sure didn’t express it there.
by Gould Old Days on Jul 20, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gabby’s been at this long enough that he’s developed the skill not really saying anything while letting his lips move and sound escape his mouth.
Maybe he just took notes from the local denizens.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 20, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to put words in his mouth by any means at all, and I’m aware how easy it is, but considering that of the three first round picks there, Gabby had much more to say on Finley and Carlson than he did on Gus. Concerning their play and their futures.
I wouldn’t look to far into what he told me, but it does make you wonder that considering all the glowing things he’s said about other players at camp, going with the company line was his go-to statement on Gus.
Of course, chalk that to a) injury and b) unfamiliarity, like many have already mentioned. Either way, this was not a standout week for Gus at all.
Capitals Kremlin the second line center of the Caps blogosphere.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jul 20, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take out the word “first-round” and he could be talking about Nylander. Let’s hope this Swedish center works out better.
by b.orr4 on Jul 20, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In evaluating kids at summer camp I think you’ve got to grade on an age curve. You can’t expect as much out of the 17yos as you do out of the 20 yos. That makes D. Orlov the player of the week, followed by Delly and Dubuc.
What did Corey see in Joe Finley that no one else did?
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 8:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of people liked what they saw in Finley, because he did what they were expecting him to do. Same with AnGus.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm. BabyGus was the biggest dud of the camp. (Unless by “expecting him to do” you mean get an injury, ha ha.)
And I agree that Finley is what was expected, but I don’t think that’s a positive. He’s a first-round bust, a guy who will never play in WSH as a D. His best chance at an NHL career is to become an enforcer. I wonder if anyone at any other blog, you know, smoked a cigarette on Saturday at about 12:15?
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. Neither of those things are anywhere near consensus.
AnGus showed probably the best hockey sense in camp. Boudreau and McPhee both mentioned how they knew he was likely to sit back and play the more defensive style he’s used to in Sweden, just like Backstrom did. And that’s what he did. Yeah, he wasn’t flashy and that isn’t going to impress most, but he still showed off his skills, his skating, some of his vision, etc. Far from the biggest dud in camp.
As for Finley, way too early to call him a bust. He showed better skating than I think most were expecting, and definitely had a willingness to hit. Tough to gauge what the move to forward means for him right now, if it means anything more than Delly and AnGus were injured, but the staff seemed mildly pleased with his game there. Wait to see where he plays in the real camp I guess.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BabyGus did not show first-round skill. The rap on him is that he’s a walking injury… and he was.
Finley: Not too early. He was a 2005 first-rounder. Four years later he’s being moved to forward because he’s so far down the Caps’ D prospect list that he’s not going to break through. He’s a poor skater, handles speed slowly, and is a zero in the offensive zone. Yes, tall guys develop more slowly… but Orlov, Alzner and Carlson are ahead of him, and the Caps already have two early20something D in the NHL: Green and Schultz.
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but Finley was always going to be a long-term project. He’s a long shot, but you can’t call him a bust before his first pro season. And I think people are putting too much weight into a single game at forward in a summer development camp. Until they move him there full time during training camp I don’t think you can take it as more than the organization trying to shift the depth a bit and wanting a guy with his size at forward. Obviously he’s low on the depth chart, but I don’t see how you can say with so much confidence that he can’t possibly jump up the ladder at all, especially considering the game he brings that nobody else in the organization does really.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, calling Finley a bust before he’s ever played more than a handful of games as a pro is real stretch. And the fact that they tried him at forward is to me more of an admission that the team is absolutely stocked with young defensemen. Finley is not a bad skater. In fact, north and south, he’s pretty good for a guy his size. Like all big men, he’s more awkward going laterally, but that doesn’t mean he can’t improve in that area. Let’s give the guy a little time before we start running him out of the organization. Keep in mind, big guys moving from defense to forward is not uncommon. When Chicago drafted Dustin Byfuglien he was defenseman. Moving him to forward looks like a pretty good move right now.
by b.orr4 on Jul 20, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finley was a first-round pick. Byfuglien was a project drafted in a round that doesn’t even exist any more, and he’s played a good number of games in the NHL as a defenseman. I’m not sure their situations are comparable.
No team is so stacked at a position that they move a first-round pick with one professional game under his belt to a position he’s never played before out of anything other than the belief he can’t play the position at which he was drafted. Finley-to-forward is a salvage move. If it works, huzzah. But I wouldn’t bet on it.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s not jump the gun. I didn’t read anywhere where they said his days as a defenseman were done. Everyone is just assuming that’s going to happen. The only reason he was even playing up front was because AnGus got hurt. As I said, let’s allow Finley to play more than a handful of games before we rush to put the bust label on him.
by b.orr4 on Jul 20, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, they’re not going to come right out and say anything that’s going to devalue one of their assets, so I wouldn’t expect them to say his days on D are done.
And are you really sure that it’s just injury that moved him to F? Positive?
But I agree – wait and see.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And are you really sure that it’s just injury that moved him to F? Positive?
No and no. But then again, I don’t know the opposite either. If Caps management is thinking out of the box and wants to see what he could do in the forward spot, good on them. Options are a good thing. I do know that what I saw from Big Joe when he was playing up front was kind of exciting. I didn’t expect to see him in the NHL for a couple of seasons, so I’m in no rush to determine his future right now.
by b.orr4 on Jul 20, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Erskine has skated as a forward in practice. Does that mean they’re moving him there full time?
I’ll believe that they’ve given up on Finley as a Dman when he skates at F in camp. Until then this is experimentation at best.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember the smell of “Pokuluk is a bust but nobody’s saying it yet.” Finley has a very different feel to me. I’d believe folks are thinking “Finley’s never going to make the NHL at D”, but I think folks still believe he’s got a pro hockey career ahead of him. If he ends up spending his career in the AHL, that’s not so bad for him.
by Gould Old Days on Jul 20, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he ends up spending his career in the AHL, that’s not so bad for him.
not great for the caps, though!
by Natty Bumppo on Jul 20, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But see, is Finley’s place on the depth chart a product of his skill level, or simply the fact that the Caps organization is so stacked on D prospects right now? I think it’s a little early to call him a bust as well.
by Murshawursha on Jul 20, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BabyGus did not show first-round skill. The rap on him is that he’s a walking injury… and he was.
There are circumstances regarding this injury, though. Its not a flare up of the back injury, he didn’t pull a hammy, he got shoved into the post and ended up with a concussion. Could have happened to any one of the guys. In fact, had it happened to someone else, I don’t think he’d be slapped with the label “walking injury.” It s a freak occurrence and not in any way a red flag. Now, if eh doesn’t recover? different story. But for now, I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
by RedBirdie on Jul 20, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a freak thing, no question. But at some point a series of freak things combine to retard a player’s development.
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, well spun. Almost as though the first thing you said wasn’t the exact opposite of this line.
If it were another forward, Gus would be lauded for getting injured while “going to the net.” He may be a “walking injury,” but he didn’t show it this week. But there’s no doubt that stacking injuries could retard someone’s development. The back injury undoubtedly retarded Gus’s development, since he lost a year. Maybe our expectations should be lower for that reason.
Sounds to me anyway like Gus plays a style of game that is very tough to judge over a one week development camp. Training camp (in DC and in Hershey) should be a much better test.
by Gould Old Days on Jul 20, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well his camp injury had nothing to do with him as a player, it’s not something you could be particularly prone to… so it has nothing to do with his reputation, especially since the only issue he had at draft time was his back.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some guys just find injuries though…
And as a guy with a back injury, a bad back leads to/makes you susceptible to lots of other stuff. That’s why drafters are oft-wary of bad backs…
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is this finding an injury though? You can throw out all these vague “oh his history, oh his track record” statements all you want, but that really means little here.
He drove the net and hit his head on the frame. Any guy wearing a visor (read: all of them) of roughly his height is going to get that cut, and most of them are going to get that mild concussion as well unless their build changes how they go in.
You’re making a fine point on its own, if you’re ignoring the camp injury, that Gus’ history wrt injuries is a red flag. But the camp injury, if you looked at it at all, is something that really doesn’t bring the player’s history into the equation at all.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Had Gus made it through the week without getting driven headfirst into the pole, would you be signing a different tune?
Because, quite clearly, his back had absolutely no bearing on this incident. None at all.
by RedBirdie on Jul 20, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact, there was a point where Orlov hit him that you would think would have been bad for a guy with a back injury… and he was fine.
This injury = unrelated.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Putting aside the well-driven point that this injury had nothing to do with his back…if you saw him violently crash into the goalpost, you would be surprised that he came out with nothing more than a mild concussion. His head banged against the post so hard that his visor pushed down and sliced deeply into his face from the force of the impact. It’s out-and-out a freak thing, and while there’s a concern that Gus may simply be a hard-luck player, calling him fragile based on this specific incident is jumping the gun a bit.
Also, he hasn’t had problems with his back since he’s rehabbed his herniated disk. The bigger issue, for me, is that he had a concussion earlier this season, so this makes his second concussion in a season.
by Forsch31 on Jul 20, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s got to be a big adjustment if you are a playmaking, 19 year old, Swedish center, to play on a smaller North American rink for the first time, for your first full development camp, with the expectations that accompany any first round pick.
I dont recall how Backstrom fared in his first camp, but he didn’t look like a top 10 pick, let alone a top 10 NHL center in the first 2 months of his rookie season.
Bust, dud, bad pick, unimpressive, whatever…way to early to judge Gus.
by Direction 87 on Jul 20, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah — he looked a lot more like a right wing!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 20, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I seem to remember Backstrom’s problems were a result of being forced to play wing… IIRC as soon as Boudreau came in for Hanlon, he was immediately switched back to center and his production took off.
by Murshawursha on Jul 20, 2009 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll take Forsberg or K. Primeau
by red army line on Jul 20, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I didn’t say that BabyGus was a dud overall, a bust-of-a-pick (yet). Just that he had a pretty unimpressive camp.
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but if there was any consensus, it was that Bouchard and/or Godfrey were the duds of camp, not AnGus. Gus got mixed reviews because people had different expectations of him.
And he did show first round skill, his skating and passing were quite good. He was never going to be an offensive powerhouse, he’s a two-way guy that hasn’t jumped into the North American style yet and so didn’t contribute offensively during camp as much as most of the others did.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Mestery as the dud of camp is pretty close to unanimous, actually.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mestery played?
Kidding of course. But it did seem like nobody noticed him, and not in a good way. Maybe it’s just that the expectations were higher for Godfrey and he didn’t get to show off any offensive game, plus he took what should have been a lot of penalties, that made me think of him as the dud.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From my chair, that would have gone to Godfrey. Come to think of it, I wanted the throw a chair at him. I keep hoping it was due to the injury that he came in with (whatever that might have been), but I saw a guy that just wasn’t altogether there. And I might be a minority of one, but I didn’t think Mestery was all that bad. I’m not seeing a guy who has a locker stall in an NHL arena any time soon, but his lack of dinstinguished play seems more to me “low-risk” than “low talent.”
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 20, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mestery was what he is…an unassuming defenseman who’s at his best if you don’t notice what he’s doing. Patrick Wey was the same way, but a bit more physical.
When he was draft, Mestery was tagged as a Schultz-clone. That’s pretty much what showed up at camp.
Godfrey on the other hand…maybe he had a decent day the one time I was at camp, but I don’t remember anything he did that made me want McPhee to buy out his contract.
by Forsch31 on Jul 20, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mestery was tagged as more of a Mo clone… not as big as Schultz, less hockey sense, slightly more physical (just like Mo).
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never heard of him… Which probably proves your point.
by Murshawursha on Jul 20, 2009 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really? I don’t think it was pretty close to unanimous from those I chatted with this past week. I think that would go to Godfrey in terms of age and experience compared to camp performance. (Or perhaps Bouchard simpy based on expectations compared to his week.)
As to Mestery, I commented a few times to people at the 2 scrimmages I attended that it took awhile to notice him. He seemed to make the conservative, safe play, but he wasn’t getting beaten by forwards that I can recall and didn’t stand out. I didn’t view that as necessarily a bad thing for a dman.
Godfrey continues to show inconsistency and questionable decision-making and a few of us noted some penalties he was taking but getting away with during the scrimmages. I expected more out of him given the level of competition and the expectation that he would want to make an impression with the coaches this past week. And fwiw, there are the questions about the shoulder injuries, too.
and FWIW,
Josh Godfrey, Jan ’88 bday, 21yo; 3+ OHL seasons; last season in the AHL/ECHL
Eric Mestery, May ’90 bday, just turned 19yo; 3 seasons in the OHL
by sk84fun_dc on Jul 20, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points, and maybe “dud” is strong for Mestery, who was drafted a bit high but as a very raw player. Relative to expectations, I guess he didn’t fall as far short as JGod.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, dud is too strong IMO for a young, tall, dman that did nothing to stand out at this point in his development, unless someone has access to the stats from the on and off ice testing and is using more data that we don’t have to form one’s opinion.
And another fwiw since you mentioned draft position,
Godfrey, 2nd rd, 34th overall, 07 draft, second time eligible for the draft
Mestery, 2nd rd, 57th overall, 08 draft
by sk84fun_dc on Jul 20, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s the problem for Godrey & Mestery (and Finley if he goes back to/stays a D): At BEST, they’re fourth on the Caps D prospect list. And how often does a team’s fifth-best D prospect ever become an NHL player for the Big Club?
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like we have some trade bait on our hands?
by Murshawursha on Jul 20, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How often do all of the team’s top 3 work out? If any of them fail, 4th suddenly becomes 3rd.
Quality wise he’d be higher on many teams prospect depth charts. It’s just a question of whether he can jump over anyone in front of him. If he can’t, trade bait or bust.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair. But the Caps have an abundance of D prospect depth…. and I’m not counting the Sean Collinses of the world. I’m pretty confident that two of Orlov/Alzner/Carlson will be NHL regulars and 23-year-olds Schultz and Green already are…
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that’s true. But any of them could be traded, and if a good number of them become really successful some of them would have to be moved for cap reasons, eventually.
It doesn’t take much moving around for Finley to work in the team’s long term plans as a cheap bottom pairing guy, especially since not all prospects are going to be kept.
And still, none of this says anything more than that they’re long shots, which I don’t think anyone would argue. And frankly that’s not a problem when your top 3 prospects are as good as ours are, and as you say the youth that’s already on the team is pretty high quality.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should have said Finley, Mestery, or Godfrey there instead of just FInley. Woops.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, they’re all on different developmental tracks depending on their ages and their talent. Mestery is a long way from the Capitals—he’s only 19, hasn’t signed a contract yet, and probably is at least 3 years away from an NHL cup of coffee. Wey will probably stay in college for all four years because he’s in a good program that McPhee likes. Finley, on the other hand, is probably looking at a couple of seasons in the AHL to straighten out kinks in his game and see if he’s an NHL-quality blueliner. Godfrey’s really the one on the short stick; he’s probably going to have to show more discipline and consistancy to his play for the Caps to offer him a QO next season.
by Forsch31 on Jul 20, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That depth means we don’t need Finley to be special, a bottom pair D with a mean streak is fine. Maybe he won’t pan out, but most prospects don’t. He’s also not on the same curve as the other prospects. By the time he is ready for any NHL duty they will be off their ELC and we would probably appreciate a cheap bottom pair guy that brings his game. It’s all about what spot you project him to. If you project him as a top pair guy he’s got too many guys to jump. If you are happy with a 6D then I don’t see why it’s unreasonable to expect him to reach that.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 20, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Erskine would be Finley’s high water mark expectation for me….
I think the key to all of this is Alzner, frankly. Not to heap any more expectation on the kid, but he among our prospects is the guy that matches the best with 52.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jul 20, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to heap any more expectation on the kid, but he among our prospects is the guy that matches the best with 52.
Jeff Schultz would like a word.
"Yes, It is a 'Beautiful Game.' It's because we see something meaningful that we hope to someday, somehow, see in ourselves."
by Bald Pollack on Jul 20, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well schultzy’s no prospect, and I don’t think he’s a top pair guy right now.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jul 20, 2009 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By implication Alzner is?
"Yes, It is a 'Beautiful Game.' It's because we see something meaningful that we hope to someday, somehow, see in ourselves."
by Bald Pollack on Jul 20, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I am implying is that , among our defensive prospects, Alzner’s game, right now, projects to a top pair defensive guy opposite an offensive force like MG.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jul 20, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His mobility doesn’t touch Alzner’s, and that’s why Alzner is likely a better partner for Green in the future if both reach their full potentials.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed that Jeff should go to some Laura Stamm classes, and that Alzner’s the one who gets the call if/when a roster space opens up, but I’m reserving judgment on giving him the keys to the rink, as it were..
"Yes, It is a 'Beautiful Game.' It's because we see something meaningful that we hope to someday, somehow, see in ourselves."
by Bald Pollack on Jul 20, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus it’s looking like Alzner and Erskine may be the only ones we can realistically expect to see keeping Crosby from Varly’s/Theo’s crease
by red army line on Jul 20, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Schultz would like a word.
Damn, dude — those are some interesting stats.
by Gould Old Days on Jul 20, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt, and not surprising, either. Take a look at this from a year ago.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s a real sample size problem though. 12 goals allowed over 346:45 of ice time gave Schultz and Green a .692 goals per 20, which looks fantastic. But just two more goals against the Green-Schultz pairing and their rating would have been .807, which is just about Green’s rating with everyone else.
Still, better for Schultz that Green-Schultz was better than the alternatives, even with a small sample size.
by Gould Old Days on Jul 20, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alzner may be a key to how our D corps rounds out but doesn’t affect Finley’s development. Agreed on the Erskine upside but he’s bigger and will be cheaper.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 20, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
indeed, the Alzner comment was an aside.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jul 20, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much does one strong development camp from Orlov actually mean (it is one, right?) ? Bouchard and Perrault turned heads, but are busts I guess relative to the expectations we had after their impressive camps in past years.
Not sold on Orlov yet. But if I had to guess, I’d say he makes it to the NHL as a regular in 2-3 years
by red army line on Jul 20, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s certainly better than the alternative…
Orlov definitely excited me.
by Gould Old Days on Jul 20, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially when you consider he hasn’t even turned 18 yet!
by b.orr4 on Jul 20, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a strong development camp combined with scouting reports leading up to the draft. He showed some unexpected facets to his game that were only hinted at by scouts, and he’s enthusastic about coming over as soon as possible. That speaks to a faster-than-expected developmental track, and I’m extremely interested in seeing what he can do in North America. You’re estimate of 2-3 years sounds about right.
Perrault wasn’t a bust for me because he stood out the way he should have stood out given his age and experience. Bouchard, on the other hand, didn’t, which is worrisome. Based on his play at camp, I think Perrault could have a breakout year in Hershey.
by Forsch31 on Jul 20, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And its his first full week to ever play in America and on a smaller sheet of ice than he’s played on. He drove the net hard a few times in the Thursday scrimmage (not tentative at all) and paid the price by getting pushed from behind and smashing his head into the goal post. Is that injury prone or just a bad break?
Looked to me like he also got better everyday…
by Direction 87 on Jul 20, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For those confused by the long-ass thread, this comment goes back to the original discussion about Gus.
by Gould Old Days on Jul 20, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mestery, Bouchard and Godfrey: Duds all. BabyGus was the first-rounder though….
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that really means nothing given that Godfrey and Bouchard were both high 2nds, and should have both been more noticeable relative to AnGus.
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Draft day is one day. It doesn’t matter where you are drafted after that. We have expectations for SDR because of what we’ve seen/heard him do in the OHL and for Team Canada, not his draft position. Finley has been on a constant development curve, maybe it’s slower than others but until he stops progressing he isn’t a bust. You’ve seen so little of Mestery (I’m assuming you don’t have the WHL package on Comcast) and Mestery is precisely the kind of D that is hard to appreciate in limited exposure (See also, Jeff Schultz). Bouchard seems to have stagnated a bit based on that camp, but it’s still too early to say bust. You’ve seen Angus skate for half a week and you are ready to declare it. Patience. Patience.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 20, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finley’s also clearly a hard worker and very smart (and gives a great interview). Guys that big take longer. He’s got a chance at least.
by Gould Old Days on Jul 20, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with a lot of this, and fwiw, I only posted the draft information for Godfrey and Mestery because of JP’s comment regarding Mestery. No doubt people set expectations based on draft position, but once drafted it is how they develop and perform that will determine success or bust. I am not one to assign bust to many even if they are drafted and even then, development takes awhile so I agree with the patience comment.
In terms of prospects and depth, never a bad thing to have depth, especially in terms of d prospects. People look at Nashville’s roster every year and wonder where they are going to fit in the next d prospect coming through the pipeline on the blueline, but they manage that and if/when they do make a trade, there will be value coming back in return. There is time to have patience with many of these young prospects.
Finley, I’m not a big fan of the timing of the moving him to forward so quickly, but agree that if through the week and testing, they have decided to make the move based on his skating and skillset, I’ll cautiously give them the benefit of the doubt as they are the professionals. As it relates to the depth chart vs Finley’s skills and upside, if they make the move, I hope it relates to the latter and not the former if they make the move.
Based on interviews over the last few years and more, Finley appears composed and smart off the ice with a willingness to learn, which should be a benefit to him in his development as a pro hockey player. Something about an interview he gave this week related to the move to forward and the talks they had, which he indicated some of which would stay private, led me to believe this wasn’t just for a couple of days at development camp, but a sign of where things are headed this season.
One thing some people seem to forget about Finley and something to keep in mind is that he’s young for a dman that completed 4 years of NCAA hockey. He didn’t play that extra year or two before entering college. For example, he’s 2 years younger than Zach Miskovic.
by sk84fun_dc on Jul 20, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I agree that Finley is what was expected, but I don’t think that’s a positive. He’s a first-round bust, a guy who will never play in WSH as a D. His best chance at an NHL career is to become an enforcer.
If Finner improves his skating, he could crack an NHL roster somewhere, but considering the Capitals skill-game style, he’s a bit of an odd-ball.
But he’s huge and he plays his height, something a few other Capital defenders don’t. He’ll get some looks by the Caps in the NHL, and while I am cheering for him, I’m not expecting him to be the next great defender.
But if he could learn Chris Pronger’s elbow move…
Capitals Kremlin the second line center of the Caps blogosphere.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jul 20, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What did Corey see in Joe Finley that no one else did?
Plays his size
Hard worker
Throws devastating checks
A great competitive attitude.
There’s quite a bit to like about him, and he was a man among boys this week, so he certainly stood out.
Capitals Kremlin the second line center of the Caps blogosphere.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jul 20, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Happy Birthday Terry
Yeah, it’s a blog entry from last year, but the hockey card image further down is worth it:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/10/california-gold.html
Let's go Caps!
by MikeL-Caps on Jul 20, 2009 9:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Quoting JP, from his "Four Years Ago" links
Will Ovechkin sell tickets? It’s hard to say.
LOL.
by Your Nation's Capital on Jul 20, 2009 10:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, it is. How was attendence for those first two years?
Winning sells tickets, and AO contributed significantly to bringing about winning, but the mere presence of AO didn’t necessarily sell tickets.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you look back at the attendance numbers, the real jump took place right after Ted signed Alex to the long-term deal. I’m not sure why, but I get the sense Alex saying he wanted to spend his entire career in DC sparked the local fans to start feeling really good about the Caps and their future.
by b.orr4 on Jul 20, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, my now ex-boyfriend bought his season tix and an OV sweater
the day the contract was announced, or very shortly thereafter.
by Your Nation's Capital on Jul 20, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which happened to coincide with the Caps really catching on fire AND football season ending. It was the perfect storm to unleash CapsMania in DC.
by RedBirdie on Jul 20, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait - football season ends? Srsly? According to ESPN it NEVER ends. According to ESPN, football is going strong in June. ;)
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Dash Weasel strikes again!
by Gould Old Days on Jul 20, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, SBN glitch, right? I thought maybe it was only visible on my screen, but I guess not? Or am I doing something that causes that?
by TylerG on Jul 20, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought you did the strike through to be a smartass ;)
by RedBirdie on Jul 20, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s SBN’s auto-formatting (click “Show Formatting Guide” near the bottom of the page – it doesn’t like two hyphens in a post).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it doesn’t like two hyphens in a post
Hal? What are you doing, Hal?
by b.orr4 on Jul 20, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Attendance spiked when the Caps started winning.
There is a tendency to over-analyze these things when the answer is as plain as a final score. The Caps won more of them… people will pay to see a winner.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 20, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But the sellouts came immediately after Ovechkin signed his contract. The Capitals started to win in December, but the crowds still stayed away for the most part. The issue was more of belief than anything else. After the firesale, lockout, and two seasons of basement hockey, the fanbase simply didn’t believe that anything—not even Ovechkin—would last. The 13-year contract woke them up.
by Forsch31 on Jul 20, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Attendance spiked when the Caps started winning.
Not really. If you take Boudreau’s hiring as the turnaround point, the Caps record for the 21 games prior to the Ovechkin signing was 11-6-4 and the average home attendance for the ten home games during that stretch was 13,195. The Caps record after Ovechkin signed was slightly worse at 11-7-3. Yet for the ten home games in that period, the average attendance was 16,182. Want further proof of the impact of that signing? For the ten home games prior to the signing, the Caps had one game with more than 16,000 attendance. For the ten games after the signing, the Caps had eight games of more 16,000. And for the two games immediately after AO signed, the Caps drew 16,000 and 17,000 respectively.
by b.orr4 on Jul 20, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone bother to look at a calendar?
First, attendance for a poor club is probably a “lagging” indicator. It will be the last thing to come around (except a championship) after the club reverses its fortunes. There are reasons for this. I’m betting that most ticket sales are still “ordered” (that is, they aren’t day of game walk-ups). Second, I would expect folks weren’t sure about the turnaround. Last — and this is where the calendar comes in — those games immediately after Boudreau’s taking over came in the middle of the holiday season. There being lots to do in this area that doesn’t involve attending games for a losing hockey team, maybe plans had already been made that precluded watching a winning team until after the first of the year.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 20, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I bothered to look at a calender, and the month-and-half of good play still didn’t draw fans, holiday season or no. You were the one who said that there’s a tendency to over-analyize things when the answer is plain and simple, and the plain and simple fact is that attendence jumped immediately after Ovechkin signed his contract. You don’t add 3,000 fans overnight on a constant game-to-game basis because of when ticket sales are ordered or because they suddenly decided show up in large numbers, and the fact it was immediately after Ovechkin’s career contract was announced can’t be dismissed out of hand..
by Forsch31 on Jul 21, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
makes me wonder who last year’s PPD (“points per dollar”) leaders were. nicky backstrom? in terms of UFA signings…zach parise? todd white? just guesses.
by Natty Bumppo on Jul 20, 2009 10:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oh you’re right. i get the feeling he’s been around a lot longer than he has, if that makes sense.
by Natty Bumppo on Jul 20, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was drafted with the pick after Fehr.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the pick before fehr. getzlaf = the pick after fehr.
by Natty Bumppo on Jul 20, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he’s the guy we wanted but was gone right before us. Darn you Oilers, why couldn’t you trade down one spot to waste your draft pick instead of trading down several?
by brs03 on Jul 20, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the 2010 draft is supposed to be overall weak, right? Should teams trade away most of their picks, especially later ones? (excluding Detroit, because they find value out of those)
by red army line on Jul 20, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not sure where, but i saw a graph that showed detriots picks over the years. Most of their picks were bad, especially up front in the draft. they just got lucky with the picks they made late. Really when you think of it, datsyuk and zetterburg are the only great players they got late. so two lucky picks and a lot of bad ones over 10 or so a year
by hockeyman33 on Jul 20, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This might be what you’re ref’g to.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But considering they only have 3 1st rounders in their lineup for Game 7 of the SCF (and only Kronwall their own)…
by red army line on Jul 21, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lidstrom, Kronwall, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filpulla, Franzen, Hudler, Ericsson, Lebda, Holmstrom, Helm, Maltby, Draper, Abdelkader are all home grown players that played in the SCF for DET. Not bad development I’d say. Draft position doesn’t really matter.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 21, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. My bad.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jul 20, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean, the Devils coulda had Getzlaf?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jul 20, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McPhee too. And that guy in Dallas must be kicking himself over ’04. Mark Fistric??? Well, McPhee almost lost us a somewhat talented player who may crack the NHL roster next season
by red army line on Jul 20, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey now, Fistric is great….in NHL 09.
by grapejoos on Jul 20, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting the post talking about Ovi’s signing with the Caps 4 years ago. The date line was my husband’s 52nd birthday. Very nice present.
by CapsFan75 on Jul 20, 2009 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
22 | 13 | 5 | 4 | 30 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
19 | 8 | 4 | 7 | 23 |
|
Atlanta
|
18 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 22 |
|
Florida
|
20 | 9 | 9 | 2 | 20 |
|
Carolina
|
21 | 4 | 12 | 5 | 13 |
(updated 11.21.2009 at 12:53 AM EST)
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
