Washington Capitals
Biggest Need: Overloaded with too many fancy dancers who'd rather avoid contact than drive the net to create a chance, they're desperately in need of a fearless power forward presence.
The Solution: Mike Knuble
Bill Guerin, re-signed by the Penguins on Monday, might have been a better choice. Nothing wrong with Knuble, though. The Flyers would love to keep the veteran winger but they'll be hamstrung financially by the Chris Pronger trade. At 37, Knuble provides nothing more than a short-term answer to their problems, but his courage, hands (27 goals in 2008-09) and leadership would provide a valuable, and affordable, bridge to the future.
- CNNSI's Allan Muir playing free agent matchmaker
4 months ago
J.P.
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WASHINGTON – The Washington Capitals have signed Mikhail Baryishnikov to a try-out contact citing the need for more dancing in front of the net and a stronger Russian presence.
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by CapitalsKremlin on Jun 30, 2009 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Now THAT’s some fancy dancin’.
Rockin' the Red in Section 412
by boutros23 on Jun 30, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This picture reminds of the funny scene in the movie “Top Secret”, when the female ballet dancers prance across the, ahem, male dancers’…….
by Cluster on Jun 30, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he wouldn’t get cheated on tripping penalties.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 30, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they’re desperately in need of a fearless power forward presence
Point taken, but that’s Muir calling Ovechkin a soft little buttercup, no?
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 30, 2009 7:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
perhaps. but Ovechkin isn’t a netcrasher, so it’s not clear who or what exactly he’s criticizing.
by smutsboy1 on Jul 1, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even more proof that Muir doesn’t really get it. Knuble’s too old, and his numbers really don’t impress me to warrant how much he’s going to demand. I’ll pass.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
by Whiter Mage on Jun 30, 2009 7:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
His age concerns me a little bit…but he might not demand THAT much.
The Flyers are believed to be offering an incentive-based one-year dea with a base salary in the $1 million range. Knuble likely is seeking a two-year agreement with a higher base salary, probably in the $2 million range.
Though it is impressive that he was one of 3 Flyers to play in all 82 games last year
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a fan of a two year deal for him either.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
by Whiter Mage on Jun 30, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know…if Sombrero’s price range is accurate I don’t see how one can pass….
by Yoshietree on Jun 30, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guerin just signed for 2 million, admittedly only for one year.
by cuqui on Jun 30, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah if Knuble can be had for 2.5 million or less, I think we’ll have to take a swing. The age thing scares me, but he has been durable in recent years.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
…except for tearing a hammy on VC ice.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Knubes… and at that price but I think GMGM would still want to shed some salary … or having one of the Semin/Backstrom extensions finalized before locking up anything more than a one year
by MetalCap on Jun 30, 2009 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree – I’d like Knuble here.
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by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m in this camp. Take all the money we gave to the old Rug and give it to Knuble and I think we’ll be much happier with how the room is tied together.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a perfect world where A) Chris Clark could stay healthy and B) Eric Fehr could step into a role including 16-18 mins/night with 2 mins/night of PP time, we might not need Knuble.
However, I think A is unrealistic given Clark’s track record and B) is unrealistic given Fehr’s double shoulder surgeries this offseason.
Knuble is a risk because of his age, but he’s been durable over the last three years, and he’s a steady contributor who shows no signs of a sudden plunge. He’s like Gary Roberts of 2003 without the sordid injury history. On a 2 year deal at around 2.5-3m/year, I think he brings something we lack.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Gary Roberts EXACTLY. The caps just don’t get many of those “bang em home” type goals. 15 – 20 more Ovie rebounds in the net would be nice. That’s enough to keep you out of a game seven.
by MinorTthreat on Jun 30, 2009 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
completely accurate.
we need bang em home goals to make the next, final, step
by smutsboy1 on Jul 1, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s like Gary Roberts of 2003 without the sordid injury history
Mike Knuble career stats: 820 games, 215 goals, 214 assists, 494 PIMs
Gary Roberts stats as of 2002: 943 games, 364 goals, 385 assists, 2251 PIMs
So yes, if Knuble can get 149 goals, 149 assists and 1757 penalty minutes (and win a Stanley Cup) in his next 123 games, then I agree, Mike Knuble will be exactly like Gary Roberts.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
by Hooks Orpik on Jun 30, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also Mike Knuble has 19 points (8 goals) in 41 career NHL playoff games.
Gary Roberts scored 93 points in 130 playoff games.
Big difference.
Not to say Knuble wouldn’t be a good player for the Caps….But he’s no Gary Roberts.
Also, on a team with Semin-Backstrom-Ovechkin (even if AO lines up on blueline) keep in mind since the lockout that Knuble has 49 of his 114 goals on the power-play. He relies on the PP to produce. Just sayin…
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
by Hooks Orpik on Jun 30, 2009 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apples and Oranges
Your statistics are completely without context. Roberts put up his big stat years in the scoring-happy late 1980s and early 1990s (and it didn’t hurt that he was playing on some excellent Flames teams). Knuble was thought of as nothing but a checking-line winger until he joined the Bruins and got all sorts of playing time in 2002-3. If you compare their years after 2000, you can easily make the argument that Knuble is the superior player.
Don’t believe me? Here is the link to Knuble’s stats, and here is the link to Roberts’.
For the purposes of comparison, check out what each of them did after they turned 30 (1996 for Roberts, 2002 for Knuble). I’m not saying Roberts wasn’t a good player, but most people (including it seems, you) don’t appreciate just how good Knuble has been since 02-03. The guy has essentially put up all of his stats after the age of 30, whereas Roberts put up the vast majority of his between 1988-94.
As for the power-play argument, that’s a red herring. 5-5 scoring has declined massively since the mid-90s. Almost every guy putting up good goal totals today relies on PP goals for a larger percentage of their total.
Again, Knuble at age 37 reminds me of Roberts at age 37, except without the massive injury baggage. Knuble’s line as a 36-year old? 27/20/47. Roberts’ line as a 37-year old? 28/20/48 (I’d quote his stats as a 36-year old, but of course he missed almost the entire year with an injury).
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
For the purposes of comparison, check out what each of them did after they turned 30 (1996 for Roberts, 2002 for Knuble). I’m not saying Roberts wasn’t a good player, but most people (including it seems, you) don’t appreciate just how good Knuble has been since 02-03.
OK, I’ll bite…After age 30 Gary Roberts had 19 goals and 31 assists in the playoffs in 66 games….From age 30 on Mike Knuble has 8g, 10a in 38 games. When I think Gary Roberts, I think clutch, hard-nosed playoff performer…Don’t think you could say the same about Knuble (ask Philly fans, a lot of them weren’t happy with Knuble this spring).
I’m not saying Knuble isn’t a very good player, he’s got a nose for the net and 117 goals since the lockout. Can’t take that away at all, and he’s probably a good influence in the room. I still don’t think he’s the “workout warrior” or on a level of impact with Roberts though.
Knuble will probably score 25g-20a next year in the regular season, more than Roberts at the same age. If that’s what you’re getting, fine no argument. But for physical play, intangibles and playoff performance — a big factor when you talk about veterans — gotta give the nod to Mr. Gary.
As for the power-play argument, that’s a red herring. 5-5 scoring has declined massively since the mid-90s. Almost every guy putting up good goal totals today relies on PP goals for a larger percentage of their total.
Valid argument….My point was just showing that Knuble shouldn’t be counted on as a regular even-strength contributor at age 37, which is what I’d think you’d hope to get from a top line winger, even with Backstrom and Ovechkin.
Knuble will go to the net and would give the Caps an added dimension there, but I don’t see him tipping the scales. Whether or not he’s an upgrade over a guy like Kozlov is a different debate.
Again, Knuble at age 37 reminds me of Roberts at age 37, except without the massive injury baggage.
Not a terrible analogy, but given Roberts key contributions in the post-season and with phyiscal play, I don’t agree. Roberts had 127 hits (in 69 games) in 2006-07 when he was 41 years old, Knuble’s high in the past three seasons was this past year with 89 (as you point out, at a much younger age). No doubt Knuble has better hands in front of the net, but Roberts brought more to the table then just PP goals.
Not that relying on PP goals is a bad thing…..Just sayin if given the choice btw a 37 year old Roberts or Knuble, I think Roberts is the better option. But that choice isn’t available.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
by Hooks Orpik on Jun 30, 2009 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, you’re missing the whole point. What I said:
He’s like Gary Roberts of 2003 without the sordid injury history.
Gary Roberts 2003: 28/20/48
Mike Knuble 2009: 27/20/47
Clearly, I’m totally wrong.
Putting that aside, I’ll play along with your strawman argument (since I never tried to compare the entirety of their careers, just what kind of player they were at age 37) and say that you’re still missing the point. Knuble had/has no control over the era that he played in, nor over the teams that he played on. Of course Roberts put up better playoff numbers – he played on better teams in an era when goals were easier to come by.
From his 30-year old year to his 36-year old year, Knuble scored 165 goals with 161 assists for 326 points, even though he missed an entire season due to the lockout. During that period, he demonstrated his durability by playing in about 78 games/year.
From his 30-year old year to his 36-year old year, Roberts scored 112 goals with 141 assists for 253 points. Roberts also had problems staying on the ice during this time, playing only around 53 games per season.
As a GM looking to sign one of these two guys going into his 37-year old season, you’re honestly telling me you’d pick Roberts over Knuble given the stats above? Now what if I mentioned that Roberts was coming off of reconstructive surgeries on both of his shoulders.
Yes, Roberts has an impressive post-season resume. And I’m sure that he’s a great leader and all that stuff. Still, he hasn’t won a Cup since he played on an absolutely STACKED Flames team. For all of his leadership qualities, the Pens were clearly a better team without him (albeit primarily because he was washed up by the time he left).
To put playoff performance in some perspective (and point out the fallacy of using small samples of apples-to-oranges comparisons), Bill Guerin had a reputation as a choking dog in the playoffs after he left the Devils. That is, until he came to the Pens last year and put up 7 goals, 8 assists and 15 points in 24 games which, I might add, is better than any of Gary Roberts’ postseasons except for when he absolutely blew up in 2001-2.
And if we start putting too much emphasis on the small sample of a single postseason. . . well, I hear that Fernando Pisani’s available. . .
by D'ohboy on Jul 1, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gary Roberts 2003: 28/20/48
Mike Knuble 2009: 27/20/47
Clearly, I’m totally wrong.
Not totally wrong at all. Roberts had more penalty minutes and was 4th on his team in scoring (t-2nd in playoff scoring). Knuble was 6th on his team in scoring (t-5th for playoffs). The pure stats are there comparable, but I think Roberts was a stronger, harder-nosed player that offered more leadership on and off the ice. That’s where I see the difference, more than just the Goals/Assists numbers.
As a GM looking to sign one of these two guys going into his 37-year old season, you’re honestly telling me you’d pick Roberts over Knuble given the stats above? Now what if I mentioned that Roberts was coming off of reconstructive surgeries on both of his shoulders.
Depends what I needed…If I’m the Caps and I need a 1st/2nd liner Knuble’s the man since he has more scoring potential and better consistency to stay in the lineup. But if you’re looking for more a 2nd/3rd wing that’ll hit and score some too, I wouldn’t hesitate to sign Roberts. As long as you’re cool with knowing he is going to miss some time with injury.
Perhaps a personel preference and we’ll agree to disagree. But good back-and-forth, I enjoyed it, d’oh.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
by Hooks Orpik on Jul 1, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This got me to thinking about that Flames team. Check out their freaking roster. Holy Crap they were stacked:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000431989.html
by D'ohboy on Jul 3, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might also want to check out that part of Knuble’s Wikipedia page where it lists the teams he played for and how many Stanley Cups that he’s won.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, surely those three games and 1 assist that Knuble chipped in for Detroit pushed them over the edge in 1998, whereas Roberts 12 points and 57 PIMs in 22 games in Calgary’s Cup run was just the same, right?
And Cups aside who’s post-season resume is better? That shouldn’t even be phrased as a question, because it’s not one.
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
by Hooks Orpik on Jun 30, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, it’s not a fair comparison. Roberts spent most of his career playing for the Flames during an era when essentially every team in the NHL made the playoffs. The Flames spent plenty of postseasons feasting on weak teams until the inevitably met the Oilers in what was invariably a run and gun goal-fest. Almost every player from that era will have better playoff stats than a player whose career is more recent.
It’s not Knuble’s fault that he’s played in a low-scoring era for underachieving teams such as the Bruins and Flyers. Just as it’s not necessarily to Roberts’ credit that he played in a high-scoring era for a powerhouse team, and then played for a perennial playoff over-achieving team such as the late-90s Leafs.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Roberts was a big reason those late-09s Leafs overachieved. He absolutely killed the Senators.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you going to be the one to tell Knuble that his name shouldn’t be on the Cup? :)
by D'ohboy on Jul 1, 2009 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think we need to make the Gary Roberts analogies here. He’s out of the league. I think another banging, scoring RW to take a look at is Mark Recchi. His scoring and play making numbers dwarf those of Knuble and Roberts.
by jcgillen on Jul 1, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Recchi is a different type of player. I think that Roberts age 37 year (2003) is approximately what we can expect out of Knuble next year: 25-30 goals, 20-25 assists.
by D'ohboy on Jul 3, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Knubs could be a key
From Yardbarker:
“During his time in Philadelphia, Knuble has been the closest thing to an immovable force the Flyers have had since big John LeClair opened an office in front of opposing netminders over a decade ago. Knuble plays a similar style, scoring many of his goals in close as defenders struggle with his size and strength. With a new emphasis on team speed, Knuble is one of the few big body forwards on the Flyers roster capable of creating problems for opposing defensemen in close.”
An element sorely missing, I would say, from the Caps current roster.
by S h a g g y on Jun 30, 2009 8:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
bouwmeester locked up by flames, 5 years, $6.6 mil per. [ESPN.com]
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 9:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ya but will he fit in here
Knuble is accustomed to the Flyers style of play. If he comes here, he is coming to a new system that likes to stay outside and play keep away. It will take him months to get up to speed.
Just because he will be parked in front of the net or go into the corners will not equal more goals for us. If it was that easy, we should have been doing that by now. I’m beginning to think that we are going to have to lay in the bed that GMGM has made.
We are who we are. We can score when needed but overall team D and goaltending is a problem.
I think that is where George should concentrate his efforts.
by CleartheTrackherecomesShack on Jun 30, 2009 10:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If he comes here, he is coming to a new system that likes to stay outside and play keep away.
I think that’s more the players then the system itself. BB, his staff and even some of the players preached how not going to the net was an issue for the team.
It will take him months to get up to speed.
That’s what training camp is for. Were you complaining when the Caps brought Feds in at the trade deadline?
Knuble is accustomed to the Flyers style of play. If he comes here, he is coming to a new system that likes to stay outside and play keep away. It will take him months to get up to speed.
So the Caps should never sign a free agent or trade for another player?
If it was that easy, we should have been doing that by now.
The team would have made additions at the deadline if it hadn’t been for them being up against the cap.
by Yoshietree on Jun 30, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can understand your concern, but Knuble doesn’t have to be a genius to understand his role playing for the Caps:
Step 1: Go to the net
Step 2: Try to screen the goalie when an Alex shoots
Step 3: Whack at any rebounds that occur when an Alex shoots
Step 4: Go into the corner and retrieve the puck when an Alex shoots
Step 5: Pass to Backstrom (or Center #2) and repeat.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Still think that Samuelsson is the better fit.
Even if he isn’t a legit or solid #1 RW. Samuelsson, Fehr, and Clark all would get time on the top line.
He is only 32 and might be a good mentor for the Swedes we are drafting, ala Feds was for the Russians. Didn’t know Samuellson was a triple gold member…
Just saying, also he should be able to be had for about $2M which will give us a little more wiggle room than last year.
Promote the game, it's the NHL, not SCHL
by kurlNdrag on Jun 30, 2009 10:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
One thing that comes to mind is a 38 yr old Knuble might be more willing to sign a 1 yr contract than a 32 year old Samuellson. Just a thought though, I havent looked into Samuellson as much…
by MetalCap on Jun 30, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed, I wonder how many long term deals are happening this year though given the CBA timeline next year. It will be interesting to see if this years UFA’s sign for shorter terms than in the past (as a whole).
Promote the game, it's the NHL, not SCHL
by kurlNdrag on Jun 30, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My issue with Samuelsson is that he did absolutely nothing until he joined the Red Wings, and even then his stats haven’t been all that impressive. We’re talking about a guy who couldn’t stick with the 2002-3 Penguins.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thinking more a product of the Red Wings system? I can see that, but if he’s netting around 20 goals just crashing the net, which their system does and we need desperately, could be the same numbers.
Promote the game, it's the NHL, not SCHL
by kurlNdrag on Jun 30, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He won’t be a crash the net guy on our team. That wasn’t how he scored goals (when I watched DET). He was more a product of the team always having the puck and just having opportunities. We don’t just need another guy that can play with the puck a little. We need someone more tenacious. I bet Samuelsson makes more than 2 mill on his next contract. There are going to be a lot of bidders that value his experience and the fact that he was part of DET the last few years.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’re talking about a guy who couldn’t stick with the 2002-3 Penguins.
FWIW, Matt Bradley got cut loose from Pittsburgh after the 2003-04 season that was an even worse Penguins team!
My issue with Samuelsson is that he did absolutely nothing until he joined the Red Wings, and even then his stats haven’t been all that impressive.
Definitely agree. Sammy’s best year were as a Red Wing, usually on the 3rd line when they were controlling the puck a lot. How much of that is the system and how much of that is his pure talent is up for debate. I think Samuelsson’s a pretty decent player, not sure how I’d feel paying him Top 6 money on the UFA market and needing him to consistently produce though..
Pensburgh.com -- it's like the Max Talbot of blogs*
*not just because we only work for 12 minutes a night
by Hooks Orpik on Jun 30, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roger on Bradley, but fourth-liners. . . meh. There’s just nothing on his resume (other than a good year with the Kentucky Thoroughblades) prior to playing for the Wings that suggests he’s got the kind of talent to put up 2nd-line type numbers.
I don’t see Samuelsson as being that much of an upgrade over Fleischmann. Also, I admit that I haven’t followed the Wings religiously (because I kinda hate them), but Samuelsson has never struck me as a player who goes hard to the net.
by D'ohboy on Jul 1, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
might be a good mentor for the Swedes
Knuble did play in the Swedish elite league during the lock out :)….maybe he learned the language.
/I jest
by Yoshietree on Jun 30, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like heatley might be an oiler pretty soon…waiting for him to waive his NTC
" 60 percent of the time...it works everytime"
by shwedy on Jun 30, 2009 10:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
May George be up all night….
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 30, 2009 11:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is the type of signing that I could get behind. The big names (see: Cammalleri, Mike) are going to want more than we can afford, and historically haven’t produced, McPhee’s right on that. Knuble wouldn’t carry a price tag out of our range and isn’t likely to sign a long-term contract – I’m not even sure that the second year of the contract would kill us.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jul 1, 2009 7:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
22 | 13 | 5 | 4 | 30 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
19 | 8 | 4 | 7 | 23 |
|
Atlanta
|
18 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 22 |
|
Florida
|
20 | 9 | 9 | 2 | 20 |
|
Carolina
|
21 | 4 | 12 | 5 | 13 |
(updated 11.21.2009 at 8:36 AM EST)
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
