2009 NHL Free Agency: What The Caps Should Do
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
411 comments
Around the League, GM's are getting their hunting permits in order as they prepare for the opening of free agent season on Wednesday, and even the most hardened fan can't help but have at least a little Christmas Eve-like optimism that maybe this year Santa their team will surprise them with more than could have hoped for. Here's a quick look at where the Caps stand as of right now:
Pending UFAs: Donald Brashear, Alexandre Giroux, Brent Johnson, Viktor Kozlov (signed with Ufa), Sergei Fedorov (signed with Magnitogorsk), Staffan Kronwall
Pending RFAs: Chris Bourque, Eric Fehr, Boyd Gordon, Milan Jurcina, Shaone Morrisonn, Jeff Schultz
Salary cap space: Approximately $10 million
Projected budget: $56.8 million (i.e. the cap, though they likely won't spend to that point to leave room for injuries and mid-season/deadline acquisitions)
Key needs: The trendy pick is defense, but the Capitals already control seven NHL-caliber defensemen (eight if you count Karl Alzner) and right now the team's top two right wings are Chris Clark and Tomas Fleischmann, and the second line center is Brooks Laich. In other words, this team needs help up front a lot more than they need help on the back end and finding a wing for the top line and a center for the second should be top priorities right now. If the team manages to fill those holes (and has any salary cap space left) they can start looking to upgrade their blue line or for another top six right wing. It's important to remember, though, that Nicklas Backstrom and Alexander Semin both become restricted free agents after next season, so the team will need to be wary of any significant multi-year contracts.
Potential free agent targets include: Mike Knuble, Erik Cole, Robert Lang, Taylor Pyatt, Mikael Samuelsson, Mike Cammalleri, Jason Williams, Brian Gionta, and Nik Antropov (and perhaps some of the lower priced blueliners listed on Mirtle's big board, like a Johnny Oduya - a late-round George McPhee draft pick that got away)
What our rivals want: Pittsburgh wants to find a legitimate top six winger other than Chris Kunitz (or to just keep everyone they had when they... well, you know). Philadelphia (desperately) wants to find someone to take Daniel Briere off their hands in order to allow them to have an option besides Ray Emery in net for next season. Carolina wants Erik Cole to stay and to figure out what the hell happened to Rod Brind`Amour this past season.
So there's a snapshot of what the Caps' situation is heading into free agency. Any and all thoughts on this assessment are welcome in the comments, and be sure to check in on what the other teams around the League are thinking via the SB Nation NHL Free Agency Hub, which should be your number one source for home team analysis on all the free agent wheelin' and dealin'.
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The Caps’ two positions of need are RW and C. I don’t see a second-line center who fits the Caps needs. Robert Lang thrills me not, and Saku Koivu seems likely to require too long a contract and too many dollars. The Caps will have to find a 2C somewhere other than via UFA.
That leaves RW. Mike Knuble: Would you like a two-year, $5.8M deal to play with Alex Ovechkin?
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 7:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hell, no. Not for that money. Unless you’re joking. You’re joking, right?
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 30, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it’s realistic to find anyone who’s going to play in the top six for less (via free agency anyway).
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knuble is going to be 37. Is he really going to get a slight raise over his previous 2 year, 2.8 million per year deal?
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The cap is higher then when he signed that deal. And he’s been consistent as heck. He’s reasonably priced and he’ll do a two-year-ish deal. I think it’s reasonable to assume he’ll get bid up a bit, yes.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll grant you he has been consistent putting up 20-30 goals over the past 6 seasons. Maybe I am just an agist, but a 20 point or so decrease in production from 05-06 to last season concerns me. I am not going to be mad if we end up signing him, just worried if its a multi year deal. Especially with all the strings attached to the 35+ contracts.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His point drop correlates almost exactly with reduced PP time.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bill Guerin?
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 30, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me clarify -
I don’t think it’s realistic to find anyone who’s going to play in the top six for less (via free agency anyway).
Bill Guerin?
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 30, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the point was regarding the amount he’s being paid relative to his age/talent level.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but that was for a team that he already won with… not exactly the same I’d say.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Knuble: Would you please go play for a team like the Kings?
This guy has never really impressed me. If you’re going to go for a RW and not a center, and you’re going to spend that much money, get Gionta.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
by Whiter Mage on Jun 30, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way Gionta signs for 2.8 million a year.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can scratch Guerin off that list of the available. And why, under the banner of “our rivals” didn’t you include NJDebbies and Boston? Just wondering.
by Uncle C on Jun 30, 2009 7:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And why, under the banner of "our rivals" didn’t you include NJDebbies and Boston? Just wondering.
If those guys are rivals, they’re only rivals because of the respective quality of each team right now. I wanted to keep the list short.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live for this stuff. We do not need anymore defensemen, although if we got Komisarek or Oduya I wouldn’t cry, in fact I might get a Komi sweater. I digress…
UFA
Good bye Kozlov, Fedorov, Brashear
Keep Johnson (only if Theo’s contract is moved, otherwise good bye)
Giroux – not sure what his status is
RFA
Keep Bourque, Fehr, Gordon, Schultz and Jurcina
Trade Mo
Good bye Kronwall
The biggest hole as I see it is at 2nd line C.
We have young C’s in the pipeline so I would try to get a short term fix there, just like what we did with Theodore. Koivu might be candidate, he is 34 but was still productive in MTL who play a similar style of hockey as we do. Leadership, guts and a 2 yr contract at $4M per. Lets stay with MTL, Tomas Plekanec, although, he’d be looking for a longer term contract I would guess, but he fit right in there and play with fellow countrymen Flash on the 2nd line. Lets stay with MTL, Robert Lang, he has had some really impressive numbers over the past 4 years, he’s a candidate for short term contract. Other FA’s we could go after, Chris Higgins, Nik Antropov, Jiri Hudler.
RW is question mark, one that I hope will be answered by a healthy Fehr, however, Ryan Clowe is available. SJ made a QO to him so see what it is and make your move. Knuble would be nice as well as Cap killer Eric Cole. Mikael Sameulsson would look great too.
This is what we need to transpire over the summer.
1. Address our 2nd line C need.
2. We need Alzner to shine in training camp.
3. We need Varlamov to go toe to toe with Theo.
4. Address our need at top 6 RW.
5. Identify the future 2nd line C.
6. Get a healthy Clark and Fehr ready.
7. Find 3 Hershey players ready to play on the big squad.
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 7:28 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree with the vast majority of this, although I still think C first if possible. I wonder if the best bet is to watch the development camp and look at free agency and what’s available once we know who is likely to make the roster come training camp.
As for who in Hershey is ready to come up: Alzner, obviously. Chris Bourque. For the third … what about replacing Brash with Jay Beagle?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on C first. But doesn’t seem to be a good fit via UFA.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s your complaint with Lang? He’s productive and at an age where he can’t really push for more than a 2 year deal. Seems just about ideal.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe. But that just may make him cheaper. He wouldn’t be the first or last player to return from a serious injury. Yeah, he’s older so it may take longer to heal but I assume the Caps wouldn’t sign him if they weren’t satisfied with his ankle; that’s an underlying assumption of mine. A healed Lang fits this team nicely, IMO.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When I saw Beagle play in training camp on 3 on 3 drills, I asked Tariq who he was because I didn’t recognize him. He stood out against current NHL’ers. He always has his legs moving fast. Beagle or Pinizotto should be solid 4th liners for us this year.
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is the year that we start seeing some of the Hershey talent move up to the bigs. Besides Alzner and Varlamov, I will be disappointed if there are not at least two other ’09 Bears that play 60+ games for the Caps next season.
by Moonage Daydream on Jun 30, 2009 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this. I think the talent has to start moving up at this point, or it will molder.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know about molder. DET “overcooks” their prospects and they do fine. I don’t think it’s such a bad thing to hold prospects in Hershey even when they are probably capable of playing in the NHL. When they are the better players in the league it allows them to work on being “the man” and having their team rely on them. It also allows them to work on little tricks and nuances that you don’t pick up when you are just focusing on keeping up and not embarrassing yourself.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Start seeing?! What about Varly, Schultz, Fehr, Gordon, Steckel, Laich, Flash, Green…
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For some of the newer folks, those names might not be synonymous with Hershey? We are a “burgeoning” NHL market, after all…
by war_capitals on Jun 30, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And which two 09 Bears would those be?
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Varly and Alzner? Maybe Sloan at some point?
by Yoshietree on Jun 30, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Moonage said other than Varlamov and Alzner.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the original comment had chris bourque’s name written all over it….but i’ll wait in anticipation with the rest of you.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading comprehension = my friend.
For the sake of argument I’ll throw Sloan out there…he’s lovable…and Beagle?
by Yoshietree on Jun 30, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bourque and Beagle.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beagle looked pretty weak during the season in the NHL. He had a couple moments, but besides that I felt like even during his 6-7 minutes of playing time he wasnt shining, like Aucoin was when he had the chance. I really liked him during camps and such, but he needs to show more when he is given the opportunity
by amkcaps on Jun 30, 2009 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I agree with you, it still remains that there is a void on the 4th line with the departure of Brashear. Off the top of my head there are 2 guys that fit the bill that could/might/should be ready to play there… Beagle and Pinizotto.
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends what they want out of that line, imo. I think Bourque-Gordon-Bradley could be a good energy line there, but if they want more grit, Beagle could be given a shot.
Also, goons can be had cheap – don’t put it past George (despite his protestations otherwise) to find a tough who costs half as much as Brash for that vacated spot.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
George Parros re-signed with Anaheim for 3 years/$2.625 million in January. He was third in fighting majors this past year — that’s probably the high end of the pay scale.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 30, 2009 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, it just depends on where you want to put him. He might not be an “energy” kind of guy, but he can certainly be a tough guy. Bourqe Steckel Bradley, or the line that JP said is more of an energy line. Replacing Bourque with beagle makes it more tough. Either way, I just want to see what he can do with another opportunity
by amkcaps on Jun 30, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d be more inclined to put Bourque with Steckel, myself – an energy line with some ability to score. Putting Bourque there maintains the energy feel and adds more scoring punch, plus opens up the possibility of moving Laich up a line.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think we need to get away from these one dimensional players. every player must contribute as a whole, not just at one specific aspect of the game. more bang for the buck and more threats on the ice.
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure :) but only if you believe his drop in performance really had to do with pneumonia and later injury (did he get hurt later on?).
he’s a low cost scorer, so at least he’s marketable.
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zing!
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The funny thing is I don’t want Fleischmann traded.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I blame BB more for our collective hating on Flash. Had he not been played so often (to break his slump?), we wouldn’t be complaining as much. The guy WAS doing pretty well before The Fates pimp-slapped him with the pneumonia/whatever, I believe he either led or was 2nd in preseason scoring and was a contributor early on in the season (right?). DMG is “dead on” here, there was an earlier quote of how cheap his goal production was to the team.
by war_capitals on Jun 30, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Caps control eight NHL-quality D. They would probably like to move a D, namely 26. So there’s no chance the Caps are interested in or need to use cap or roster space on D. Zero chance.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree, especially given the dearth of available UFA Ds which will make a guy like Rob Scuderi rich beyond his wildest dreams.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, looking at Mirtle’s list …
There’s a lot of second-pairing and depth D available. Depends on what you’re looking for. Some names that jump out at me:
Adam Pardy (CGY)
Shane Hnidy (BOS)
Derek (sp) Seidenberg (CAR)
Marc-Andre Bergeron (MIN)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would the Caps want/need ANY of those guys?!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t say they did. I was just pointing out that there’s more available than one guy. I don’t think D is our first priority anyway.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta agree with Tyler – those guys are, to a man, either redundant with what the Caps have or terrible (or both).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
yupyup.
its Komisarek or nothing. so, nothing.
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Komisarek, who is big but lumbering and struggles mightily against players with speed, fits neither a WSH need nor a WSH salary/cap slot.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
But he hits!!!!11
/anti-jeff schultz fan club
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
LOL. He hits guys he can catch. I’m just not a Komisarek fan. He’s going to get near-Chara money for 1/2 the game. Against speed, he’s a pylon.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He won’t get Chara money, he doesn’t have the offense. He’ll probably get about 4.5 mill per. That’s still a lot for a team in the Caps’ cap situation so I think it rules him out but he’s not going to get an outrageous pay day. I also think you are overplaying the “pylon” angle. He’s played against top pairs basically his entire career and been reliable.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec’d.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
disagree with the fit, play wise.
agree completely on the salary cap bit, hence the “so, nothing”
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Komisarek is 1 year removed from leading the league in hits and block shots. He had an off year this past season and was still in the top 10 in both categories despite missing time cause he mixed it up with Lucic.
Komisarek has all the qualities you need in S@H D guy. Big, tough, mean, brave and could also be the enforcer a team needs while playing 20min instead of 6.
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you about Komisarek’s game, I love him as much as anyone, but I don’t think you want your enforcer playing 20 minutes a game. If he fights in that case then you are losing one of your more important players, not an ideal situation. If a 4th line F fights then he at most misses a shift or two during that time in the box.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think if you ask Ovie if Komisarek can defense against him, you might change your mind.
I remember Ovie saying that Timonnen, Chara and Komisarek play him the toughest.
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had always thought it was Markov he identified as the tough opponent in MTL, not Komi, but I could be wrong.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Further to that point, this:
Ovechkin said that Markov and Zdeno Charas are the two toughest defencemen to play against in the NHL.
…
It’s a strange statement, because Ovechkin plays on the left wing and Markov plays on the other side of the ice. But Ovechkin insists he’s had some battles with Markov.
“But he knows all my moves,” Ovechkin said. “He reads me like a book.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohlund isn’t close to the player he used to be. He’d no longer be an upgrade over Mo, unless all you care about is having an older Swede on the team (other than Nylander of course).
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohlund is a massive upgrade over Mo, are you joking? Mo is absolutely not consistent and really even his good times this year weren’t that great. Ohlund is consistent and steady, if not flashy. Getting back to DMG’s theme of “getting everyone playing the minutes they should be playing”, Ohlund would certainly adjust everyone’s ice down, except for Green. That alone is a huge help to our D.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohlund isn’t a top 4 Dman anymore. His decline was swift and massive this season.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was one of the top D on a division winning team. I’m not sure how you can say he’s not a top 4 Dman anymore when, by definition, he was a top 4 D on a team that went just as far as the Caps this last year.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine, revise it to “effective” top 4 Dman. He’s top 4 the same way Mo is top 4, not a great fit (although for different reasons) but still used in the role.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohlund >>>>> Mo. Not even close. At least Ohlund is smart and makes reliable decisions. You rarely knew what you were getting from Mo before the puck dropped this season.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless it’s via trade. Trading for a Dman is far from zero chance, although how likely it is is anyone’s guess.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 8:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Caps have eight NHL D. Why on earth would they trade for one, unless it was Chris Pronger or Zdeno Chara?!
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or, you know, someone like Kubina or even Hamhuis (etc.). If Mo walks the team probably needs someone reliable to take some of those minutes.
I’m assuming Morrisonn is out, either as a trade or walking away from an arbitration award. Then it only involves moving someone like Pothier (as a salary dump) or Jurcina to open up that other spot. Or carrying 8 D if Erskine’s going to be used more in an enforcer role (I have no idea what GMGM’s thinking).
I don’t know if it’s likely, but saying there’s zero chance the team brings in ANYONE from the outside for the D is silly. It’s not as if they’re not allowed to move any of their 8 NHL D, and an upgrade is probably needed.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, they don’t.
First, Mo cannot walk. He’s not a UFA, he’s an RFA. The Caps would have to let him leave, and would receive compensation in return.
Next, even if they move Mo, the Caps have seven solid NHL D, with proven depth/step-ins (and the necessary, corresponding cap hits) at the AHL level.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First, Mo cannot walk. He’s not a UFA, he’s an RFA. The Caps would have to let him leave, and would receive compensation in return.
I think brs03 meant the team walking away from the arbitration award.
Next, even if they move Mo, the Caps have seven solid NHL D, with proven depth/step-ins (and the necessary, corresponding cap hits) at the AHL level.
I agree. The Caps have more than enough 4-7 quality defensemen. It only makes to go out and get one if he’s going to be a top 2-3 guy.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think you’re using the term “quality” loosely… i’d go with “serviceable” for now… ha
by Scofield on Jun 30, 2009 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you’re talking depth defensemen “serviceable” and “quality” are the same thing.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mo would walk if he goes to arbitration (which I’m guessing he does) and if the team walks away (which I’m guessing they do), and there is no compensation.
“Walks” probably isn’t the right term, but I simply meant if he’s gone, which I think he is.
And it doesn’t matter how many NHL Dmen if the depth chart is too heavily weighted towards 4-7 guys. I believe it probably is, so an upgrade is in order. Not a huge one, but a someone more well-rounded than Pothier, more reliable than Jurcina, can take more minutes than Erskine, whatever. Moving two Dmen, in total, isn’t all that crazy if it means you’re getting a good upgrade that helps you reshuffle the depth chart in a positive way.
Depth is good for depth, but you need quality too. The Caps could use an extra infusion of quality at the top to help them take the next step.
I should also note I don’t envision them making a big splash to acquire that 2nd line C, because I don’t see any candidates available that make sense. If they do that then I agree that a D addition is very unlikely.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See where I said I don’t envision them making a big splash for that 2nd line C? That’s where the cap comes in. I don’t see them spending 6 mil on a forward. I see them spending 4 or less. That leaves space to add a Kubina-level guy, especially if there are any salary dumps involved (Pothier perhaps). Losing Mo would make a bit of an impact although that only covers Alzner.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No it doesn’t. And they’re not spending $4M on anyone either.
Look at not just next year, but the years beyond. Backie’s on his entry deal, Varly too, etc.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see much more than $3M being available total, given raises and so forth. It might be less.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is why you go after someone like Kubina or Hamhuis, someone that’s a UFA in one year.
The cap can be made to work if you can dump the salary. Maybe Pothier, maybe Clark, maybe both. Maybe you find a taker for Theo and keep Johnny to open up the space.
The RFA’s aren’t going to get huge raises (Schultz might get a moderate one I guess). And of course there’s the bonus cushion to keep in mind for Alzner and Backstrom.
It wouldn’t be easy, but it would be possible depending on what moves they try to make at forward.
For example:
dumping Clark or Pothier gets you under the cap from last year’s situation
losing Fedorov + Kozlov gets you 7.5 to play with
losing Mo covers Alzner plus a bit extra
Then if you add someone cheap like Hamhuis you’ve got, what, 5 mil to play with at forward + RFAs? Of if you’re not adding an expensive forward you could go the Kubina route, and you’d still have 2 mil to cover the RFA’s.
Obviously things become exponentially easier if you can dump Nylander or even Theodore (if that’s the best option, I don’t know if it is though). But things can be made to work depending on what direction the team goes.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few things jump out at me:
- the bonus cushion is no longer in effect
- dumping a player at the team’s least-deep (shallowest?) position (Clark) for a guy at their deepest position (defense) doesn’t make sense to me
- Fedorov + Kozlov = $6.5M in 2008
- comparing the 2008 Capitals to the 2009 Capitals for cap purposes (i.e. “Fedorov is off the books, so that’s $4M”) isn’t that effective because the 2009 Capitals are going to have different players making different amounts of money under a different salary cap. It’s much easier to just add up the guys for 2009 and it removes most of the guesswork and estimations.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The cushion is in effect. It’s always in effect except for the final year of the CBA, which this isn’t (last year was until they voted not to reopen it).
2008 vs 2009 is good enough because the cap is practically the same, and you only have to deal with a few raises. It’s easier for me to think of addition and subtraction than it is to try and rebuild the lineup completely, but if you prefer that way suit yourself.
There’s still going to be guesswork and estimations, of course, because we don’t know who will make the team and how much some players (guys like Schultz and Fehr) are going to make, obviously.
Also, calling D the deepest position is disingenuous given the lack of high end quality. I’m not saying dump Clark at all costs, but in many ways he has high potential to be dead weight with a pretty high cap hit, so he wouldn’t be doing much to shore up that RW depth in such a case (unless there is a belief that he can return to form, in which case that’s great, keep him and plug him into that top line RW spot).
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
D is the deepest position both on the team and in the organization.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, that’s not really my point. I think that depth is a bit too much low-end guys and not enough quality at the top.
It’s fine if you don’t agree, but it’s not an unreasonable position given the team’s defensive struggles.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d say LW is the team and organization’s deepest position.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, calling D the deepest position is disingenuous given the lack of high end quality.
The team has more NHL-caliber defensemen under control than NHL teams usually carry. I don’t think you can say that about any other position.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Theo and Varlamov, sure. I’m not sold on Neuvirth being NHL ready.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Organizational depth at G: Yes. NHL-level depth at G: Average.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How do you propose to “dump” Pothier or Clark? They’re not going to go for draft picks or prospects. You’ll get a lineup guy out of either of those, which means that their salary will be added to your calculations.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Include them as a salary dump in the trade, and overpay slightly. It’s not that out there especially since someone like Pothier isn’t that bad a contract.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still don’t see why you’re so hung up on acquiring D. I still think we need help up front more.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. Stop trying to maneuver around for a D-man until we see how Alzner/Carlson pan out
by amkcaps on Jun 30, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is we can’t wait to see how the pan out and then, if they don’t, make a move to shore up the D. The moves have to be made now (before camp).
If you add someone reliable to the back end now and it turns out Carlson is ready to make the team already, what’s the worst that happens? Either you let Carlson simmer in Hershey or you move someone to make a spot. If you don’t make any changes to the D and are depending on Carlson to make an impact and he doesn’t, then what? You’ve got a hole and not as many options to fill it.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So wait…we have absolutely no 2nd line C to go between Flash and Semin, and you want to acquire someone at a position where we have LOTS of options simply because you don’t want to wait and see???
There is no wait and see for a 2nd C or 1st RW…WE DON’T HAVE ONE!
by wittcap79 on Jun 30, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
2nd line C:
I’m saying I don’t see anyone that fits what the team is apparently touting right now (size) available, at least not anyone we could acquire. I’m also saying we can get by offensively with Laich as the #2 C, and possibly even give Nylander a shot at earning his paycheck since we’re probably stuck with him.
1st line RW: I’m guessing that’s filled with Semin/Clark/Fehr, at various points in the season, or with a mid-to-low end UFA/trade. If Clark is recovered he probably gets a shot there. If he isn’t he’s probably useless and can be looked at as a potential salary dump if deals can be made.
And I’m saying the problem with the D options is none of them are good enough, at least I don’t see them as good enough. This team isn’t nearly as likely to struggle offensively as they are to struggle defensively. I don’t care that D is “deeper,” it’s also weaker. That’s why I think it should be address.
Let us not lose sight of the fact that my entire original point was that there is greater than zero chance the Caps bring in someone from the outside on D. If you consider the idea that the Caps need to improve defensively a legitimate one, and if you consider the idea that assuming Alzner and/or Carlson will have enough impact to show an improvement an unwise one the make, then considering the D as an area of potential improvement is far from outrageous.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the issue is just quality. No one would dispute that the Capitals could benefit from a stud #1 defenseman, but I just don’t see the value in a 2-3 guy because between Green, Poti, Schultz, Jurcina, and Alzner I think the top two pairings are spoken for, though it remains to be seen who will be in them. Given that, I don’t think it makes sense to pursue a guy who might be a slight upgrade in the top four at the cost of acquiring a guy at center or right wing, where the team really has pretty slim pickings right now.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something absolutely must change about this team’s defensive game. Maybe Woods is enough, but I’m of the mind that we need a bit more experience or, at least, quality on the back end. Carlson can’t be counted on to make a huge impact, and Alzner can’t be counted on to take a big role and become a stalwart immediately.
This team isn’t going to have a ton of trouble scoring goals as long as Ovechkin, Semin, Green are here. Preventing them is another issue, and it may require an infusion of more talent on the back end (or it may not).
Fedorov isn’t some great loss offensively, and neither is Kozlov (although yes, glue guy and the chemistry will be lost, but there’s no guarantee a new player will fit as well regardless).
This team can take a bit of a hit offensively if it means the D is improved. Maybe that’s not possible, but maybe it is. If it is possible I’m of the mind that GMGM should be looking in that direction.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we’re going to agree to disagree on this one. When the D has issues, it’s because they’re not working as a unit. When they are, they’re very effective that I saw last season. I think the coaching change is going to make a bigger difference than throwing bodies or money at the problem.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s fine. I think a veteran (i.e. someone better than Mo and older than Alzner) would go a long way towards settling the group down.
It could be that Woods is enough and Leach was really the problem all along, in which case an addition is unnecessary. I don’t know if I’m ready to believe that yet, but really it only matters what GMGM believes.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by the way, thank you for supporting your position and not being disagreeable or belittling in your disagreement. That’s why I like Japers’ – I see that and I appreciate it.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No thanks are necessary here. We all understand that we’re not on CI or the Caps message boards.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 30, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not just our D coverage in our own zone per se, our breakout was atrocious without (a healthy) Mike Green. Does it bother anyone else that when ONE guy gets hurt we can’t get the puck out of our zone? Does anyone else remember how much trouble BB went through to try to make sure he had a “puck mover” on every D pair because we had guys that were liable to getting trapped in their own end? Our D was definitely deficient last year, and overly dependent on Mike Green. I don’t see what’s so outrageous about the suggestion that the Caps could stand to upgrade their D corps.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carlson is not counted on, except in Hershey.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
all this talk about shoring up the D - who says we need a player for this? Our new defensive coach will (can?) do the shoring up……
by RedskinFan4Life on Jun 30, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree there’s a chance that’s the case, probably a good enough one for GMGM to defend sitting tight on any big moves for the moment.
But more experience and/or quality on the back end would help, too, if it can be done.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
THey probably don’t, and certainly not as a first priority, for the reasons TylerG stated.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No chance? I think you are being way too dismissive. It may not happen because of cap concerns but I’d think that GMGM is at least interested in upgrading the D corps. Considering some of the offensive depth in the EC (specifically PIT, PHI, BOS, and not to mention the west) you need 2 shutdown pairs to survive. The Caps at best have one shutdown pair. The cost may be prohibitive but I think GMGM would be interested in upgrading the D, I don’t see why he wouldn’t. We may control the rights to 8 NHL-quality D but right now we only have 1 top pair D, and at best 3 top 4 D. We’ve got 5-7’s to burn but those aren’t the guys we need to win the Cup.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding C … I like the idea of Robert Lang for the full-circle sentimentality thing, but he’s 39 and coming off a torn Achilles tendon. Is that going to affect his game?
A couple of quick back-of-the-envelope calculations based on what we’ve got now, accounting for raises and so forth, are making me look at who we can get for about $3M/year. Sami Pahlsson is an interesting idea, but that -17 scares me. I have to agree with TylerG that I don’t see anything that excites me in our price range. This might be a trade.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pahlsson has so little offensive upside at this point that for the sake on continuity (and cap management) I’d rather have Steckel on the second line.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough.
I think we don’t have all the answers to put this puzzle together yet. I’m going to be watching development camp really closely this year to see who might be ready for the big-time.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really want to see what C.Bo can do in a top 6 role. He’s only ever been used as an energy guy, but he’s clearly got top 6 skill, somewhat similar to Flash. He also appears to have the grit and desire that Flash seems to lack, which might make him a better fit for 2nd line duty, as well, or even as a good compliment to a Flash/Semin pairing.
But it could be difficult for them, too, going from Feds to C.Bo. I don’t expect it to happen, but I’d at least like to see him get the opportunity.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 30, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually like the idea of putting him on Steckel’s line for a start, to give that third line a little extra scoring punch.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they can work some of their Hershey magic again.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 30, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo2UTlLssiw
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably, but the sentimentality idea made me happy. I’d never do it, but the idea made me smile.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The sentimentality of it fills me with rage (okay, that’s an overstatement) because it remind me of trying to build a team around Jagr’s psyche.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rage? That’s a strong word. I don’t see the connection, either, but I also don’t think it’s all that important :)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The connection is Lang being brought in in large part because he and Jagr were friends and had played on the Czech team together because the Caps decided they needed to placate Jagr at every turn (for example, firing Wilson and hiring Cassidy), which is what ran the organization in the ground.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhhhh. I don’t think that’s fair to Lang, but what emotional reaction is fair?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But picking up Lang actually ended up being a pretty big bonus for us, even if Jagirl was a total fail.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I maintain that it was B.Cassidy that was the fuck-up of that team, not Jagr. He tried to mold Jagr, rather than adapting to Jagr’s clearly superior play. I don’t excuse Jagr for his actions or attitude, but I certainly don’t put all the blame on him. Cassidy was a goddamn idiot.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 30, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the media have the shortest memory when it comes to trades at the draft (every year they opine on this or that deal being done, and they almost never happen), then fans have the shortest memory when it comes to free agents and their impact on their new teams. It is the single most overrated part of the hockey calendar (yeah, and perhaps its guiltiest pleasure).
Free agency just doesn’t matter that much, at least at the top end of the pay range. Better to look at mid-to-low pay guys… role players, preferably with playoff experience in their resumes.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 30, 2009 8:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Would like him, although some Philly fans have brought up a good point. He is slow, it’d be tough for him to skate effectively on a line with Ovechkin.
I think it’d be worth a shot, especially since he shouldn’t break the bank, but I also understand why he might not be the best fit.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he’s slow, then that probably wouldn’t work on a line with Ovechkin who’s crazy hard to keep up with. I’d be looking for a RW who is tough, digs in the corners, and skates like the wind – Ovi goes into the zone alone too often because nobody can keep up with him.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d be looking for a RW who is tough, digs in the corners, and skates like the wind
In an ideal world, yes, but I don’t know who’s out there who can do it other than Erik Cole, assuming he also comes with a time machine that goes to 2003. Given that, I think a guy who is tough, digs in corners, wins board battles, and has averaged 29 goals a year since the lockout is a pretty good Plan B.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Er,
“…Given that, I think a guy who is tough, digs in corners, wins board battles, and has averaged 29 goals a year since the lockout is a pretty good Plan B, even if he has skating issues” is what I meant.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. I think I’m just tired of seeing Ovi go into the zone alone and get overwhelmed.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only guy who can fix that problem, though, is Ovie.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
If Fedorov did anything to help Ovi’s game, I hope it was to get him to hook off and wait for help at the blue line instead of trying to beat 3-4 defenders. Despite the occassional success he’s had at beating a tribe of backcheckers…
by war_capitals on Jun 30, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly! It doesn’t matter how fast you other wing is when AO comes in and cuts to the middle and shoots through the D. It’s either a goal, a blocked shot, or the goalie covers for a whistle. The RW is irrelevant in that scenario. God forbid the RW was in position to join AO on those rushes we’d be playing with 3 men in the D zone.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ovie gets into the zone first because he is usually the closest Cap to other zone.
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Thank goodness this isn’t Puck Daddy, because this is where the Pittsburgh trolls would come in and tell you that Ovie is nothing but a cherry-picker who doesn’t play defense.
by Scott in Shaw on Jun 30, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point, but no one skates with Ovechkin anyway, right? When he carries the puck up on the wing, we all know what’s going to happen.
Knuble would be a good fit as a 1L RW for the PP time and O-zone draws. For the rare occasions when BB plays the 8 line for a D-zone draw, he could put out Brads/etc. (Not that Gabby does much of this kind of fiddling.)
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. As long as he isn’t breaking the bank he’s worth the risk. Worst case scenario is he skates less with Ovie at ES and plants himself in front of the net on the PP.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there’s probably like 5-10 wingers in the whole NHL that could skate with Ovie on those mad rushes, and we’re not going to get any of them. and i’m not sure how effective it would be anyway.
i really dig the Knuble idea. Cole would be good for this season as well.
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with Cole is that given his age, he’s looking for that last big contract (probably).
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other problem with Cole is that he’s worthless as soon as he leave Carolina. Ok, not really, but you get the idea.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of like Sean Avery and NYR :)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oswego county weeps at the comparison
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truth sucks, doesn’t it?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being compared to Sean Avery sucks
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, yes. :)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
…and Cole is Viktor Kozlov invisible in the playoffs.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could go with it – I’m not opposed but I’m not bouncing off the walls about it, either.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there’s probably like 5-10 wingers in the whole NHL that could skate with Ovie on those mad rushes
Keith Aucoin is pretty fast. Maybe we’re all looking at the wrong type of player for the top line. Maybe that line needs another playmaker, another artist for give and goes. Maybe the guy that line needs is already in the organization.
by Gould Old Days on Jun 30, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From career AHLer to Ovechkin’s line mate? Can’t they just re-sign Joe Motzko if they want that? ;-)
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
But maybe he’s a career AHLer due to senseless discrimination against the short…
by Gould Old Days on Jun 30, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I imagine that comment will appear in some form by a CI poster soon.
by Bald Pollack on Jun 30, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Glen Metropolit.
Your favorite meme is dead
by Edanger6 on Jun 30, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We just had V. Kozlov who’s nothing if not a playmaker. I doubt Aucoin would be better at it than him.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 30, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aucoin gives 100% effort (at least when I’ve seen him) and at least has a modicum of desire to win puck battles. When Kozlov wanted to play he was a good playmaker but he spent as much time being invisible as he did making pretty plays.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is slow, it’d be tough for him to skate effectively on a line with Ovechkin.
It’s not necessarily so much about playing with Ovechkin. After all, Bill Guerin is slow, but struck pay dirt playing with a gifted center.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know. I’m just saying it’s something to think about, it could be a big hindrance or it may end up not mattering. I’d love it if the Caps signed him to a reasonable deal, even if it turned out he couldn’t keep up with Ovie so well. There’s definitely some flexibility as to how you plug guys in.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s part of the reason I love a potential Knuble deal. Even if he doesn’t work out on the top line, he would have value on the second line and on the powerplay. I see very little downside there (although that over 35 contract rule does make me a little uncomfortable)
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That, and he’s been durable. If that sticks, even at his age he’d be a good pickup.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 35 thing is why you can’t give him more than 2 years. I think he realizes that and I have a hard time seeing him push for a 5 year deal.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think AO needs Clark and that Semin needs the 1L RW we all want. Ovie can play with anyone or anything and still get his same amount of goals and assists. It’s Sema of whom we should all be thinking…
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 30, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m almost leaning towards:
Ovi-<center>-<RW> (where RW could be Clark or Fehr or whoever)
Laich-Backstrom-Semin
Flash-Steckel-Bourque
Beagle-Gordon-Bradley
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the playoffs changed my opinion of whether Backstrom should be on the 1st or 2nd line. If Ovie’s facing a formidable defensive pairing, he needs another star on the line to help either A) take attention away from him or B) make the other team pay for over-committing to him.
I figure Semin is talented enough to do well against the opponents 2nd defensive pair.
by smutsboy1 on Jun 30, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ibid. When Backs was a rookie, I understood taking him off the first line. But going forward, the Ovie-Backstrom combo needs to stay in place for the post-season.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 30, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Dave Andreychuk a speedster on a team (with speed) that won a Stanley Cup in 2004? He was sixth on the Tampa Bay squad in scoring at the age of 40
Not an argument to sign Knuble, but his skating isn’t necessarily disqualifying as a factor.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 30, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Knuble’s not that slow. He’s no Rico Fata, but he’s quicker than Eric Fehr by a fair sight.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He may be slow but he was fast enough to play with Richards and Gagne. He may not be leading any rushes with AO but I think he can skate well enough to get his ass in front of the crease when AO and Backstrom set up possession in the zone.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of Knuble, but he’s also turning 37 on Saturday.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We’re not talking about forever here.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, but while I haven’t done any statistical analysis to back this up, I feel like he’s at the age where production drops off dramatically.
Still, he made 2.8 million the last two seasons. Could he be had at one year 2 million? I dunno, the age just kind of makes me nervous.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he could be, but I’d bet hard currency that someone else would eventually out-bid the Caps for him. Nature of the beast and all…
by war_capitals on Jun 30, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Free agency just doesn’t matter that much, at least at the top end of the pay range. Better to look at mid-to-low pay guys… role players, preferably with playoff experience in their resumes.
I think that describes what most of the fanbase wants the Caps to do. We have a handful of secondary needs that are apt to be filled with mid level FAs.
I think the model to aspire to (unfortunately) is adding the final pieces the way the Pens did at the trade deadline this year.
by smutsboy1 on Jun 30, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marcel Goc
Not tendered by the Sharks… Thoughts? His ceiling seems to be 2nd line C, though he might bounce back and forth between 2nd and third, and he seems to be a player much in the Brooks Laich mold, except he wins faceoffs. I think he could be had for relatively little money, and would free up Laich to move back to wing.
by gnuf on Jun 30, 2009 9:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just say no to Marcel Goc. Steckel would be better than him.
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Over the last three seasons he’s played 184 games and has twelve goals, 20 assists, and a -23 rating. I don’t see him being a good option for the Capitals second or third line.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reg Season FO% for Brooks Laich: 51.1%
Playoff FO% for Brooks Laich: 60%
Just sayin’.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RW
Argue me against Chad LaRose. I don’t know a lot about him other than his stat line.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice player — but a third-liner on a Cup team, I think. A smaller Brooks Laich, maybe with a smidge more speed. Only one year of what, more than 11G? And yes, he’s coming off a career year, seems to be a nice up-curve in his career.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would he meet any of our needs or reshuffle the depth chart?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think so. I think he’s a second-liner on a borderline playoff team, which WSH isn’t.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, fair enough.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d agree. You never know, maybe he makes a big jump, but to me he would just be another guy to throw in the pile with Fehr, Clark, and Fleischmann, hoping one of them works out.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is my opinion… But if you look at the stats.
LaRose played over 15mpg for 81 games 31 points with a +6 on their 2nd line
Fehr played about 11.25mpg for 61 games 25 points with a +8 on our 3rd line
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There ya go. :) I don’t mind opinions, I have lots of them :) I just wanted you to back it up with more details. :)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the math on that is…
LaRose scored .026 points per minute played
Fehr scored .036 points per minute played
Had Fehr played in 81 games and 15 minutes per game his stat line would like this…
Fehr 20G and 23A
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fehr is a bit misleading, he was so streaky last year. Score several games in a row and then disappear for several more.
Was Larose similar?
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just look at the numbers… 31 points in 1215 minutes (LaRose) vs 25 points in 686 minutes (Fehr).
Every team has players that go through scoring droughts. No team or player is exempt from it.
LaRose also played on a scoring line, Fehr played on a hybrid line.
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fehr played on every line imaginable.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except for the one that was on the ice.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 30, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or any special teams lines.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What was misleading about Fehr?
He played 61 games on different lines and different linemates and rarely got to play with creative pivots and had next to nothing PP time. He played very well when he was on the Flash and Fedorov line.
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Misleading as in his streakiness means you can’t really extrapolate his numbers. If he found a line with great chemistry they’d end up higher, if his consistency really was an issue they’d end up lower, etc.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you’re saying he was inconsistent? Then his numbers from last year were low then right?
Thus proving my point that LaRose < Fehr.
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not saying anything about Fehr other than he was streaky, and that trying to extrapolate stats for a streaky player is dangerous.
It could be that more ice time means he would have produced a higher pace. It could be that he would have produced a lower pace. I’m just saying keep that in mind.
Larose may have been the same way, I didn’t watch enough of the Canes to know either way.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think that’s quite how the issue plays out with Fehr. His numbers look good (heaven knows I’ve made the point) but the small sample size coupled with the streakiness makes it difficult to know exactly how productive he could be as an NHL player. Maybe he’s as good as the numbers and maybe he’s better, but maybe he played well and boosted them. After all, Aucoin looks pretty good if you pull his numbers out to an 82 game season.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whats wrong with fehr with ovie and backstrom?
sure he aint evgeni malkin or anything, but hes got a decent scoring touch and he’ll provide some physical play to pair up with ovie
by twistedlogic on Jun 30, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His shoulders, at least for a couple months.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like LaRose a lot. I think he’s a gritty third liner that could help us at the right price.
by smutsboy1 on Jun 30, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
weren’t kozlov and fedorov first and second liners?
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Second Line Center
What about Jiri Hudler for a second line center? I think he would be awesome with Semin. I know much hinges on the Hossa contract. Some websites say that Detroit is looking for some “D” men. I think this is something that we can make happen. What do you think about Hudler?
The difference between ORDINARY and extraORDINARY is that little "extra"
by Moufunction on Jun 30, 2009 9:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He is listed as a center. In a way I agree with Jschon, Hossa won’t be resigned so it is a moot point.
The difference between ORDINARY and extraORDINARY is that little "extra"
by Moufunction on Jun 30, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not think Hossa will be resigned in DET, so my guess is that they will re-sign Hudler and Sameulsson.
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit Free Press reports that Hossa has been offered a $4 million/year deal (except if you read the article, it’s not clear if that’s an “offer” or merely the room the Wings have to work with). The Detroit News reports that the Wings are hopeful he’ll accept a long-term deal between $4 and $5 million/year.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 30, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All numbers = cap hits presumably, right?
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep. Its assumed it structured like the Franzen and Zetterberg contracts, giving the Wings the need flexibility to try and bring back Hudler and/or Samuelson.
by RedBirdie on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jokinen
I doubt the Caps are going after a #2 center via free agency. The resignings of Backstrom and Semin, plus the fact that they have two young Swedish centers poised to take over the #2 spot in a couple of years probably prohibit signing a UFA for that position. I’m betting they’ll be looking to pick up a good/decent second-line center via trade. Look for a team that’s up against the cap and for a center that only has one year left on his contract. For example if Calgary signs JaBo, they’ll need to dump salary and Oli Jokinen could be a prime candidate to go. I know he’s considered a cancer by many, but at worst he’s a one year cancer who’s playing for a new contract. There’s no denying the guy’s tremendously skilled and on the second line with Semin, it could be something special. There are other guys out there who fit into this category like Marleau, Kozlov in Atlanta and, dare I say, Jeff Halpern.
by b.orr4 on Jun 30, 2009 9:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This isn’t a bad thought, and you could well be right.
Here’s your list, courtesy nhlnumbers.com.
I dunno about Halpern – could you have a captaincy issue if he comes back? Plus, those stats don’t gladden my heart.
The one that jumps out at me immediately is Marc Savard, but I think he’s going to be too rich for our blood at a cap hit of 5.0. We’d have to move a salary to do that.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to sportsnet.ca Jokinen made about 5.25 mil last season, also a big hit. Any chance he comes down off that price?
The difference between ORDINARY and extraORDINARY is that little "extra"
by Moufunction on Jun 30, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OlliJo is off the market. Signed an extension. That also means he probably ain’t available by trade.
by Gould Old Days on Jun 30, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was discussed yesterday:
OlliJo is NOT a GMGM/WSH player.
OlliJo is under contract at $5.25M, so there’s no coming down from it. That’s what he is.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, exactly, is a GMGM/WSH player?
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see Boston trading Savard to any of their big competition in the East, if they trade him at all. That, and Ted apparently wants size down the middle.
Would be nice though…
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Kessel, He is going to be demanding about 5 mil too. Does Boston send him to eastern competition? Looks like anyone who might fill the position is going to be around 5 million.
The difference between ORDINARY and extraORDINARY is that little "extra"
by Moufunction on Jun 30, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doubt it.
Frankly I think they keep both and make up the cap space by losing Sturm, Kobasew, etc.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it would. Savard/Ovechkin made a scary pairing at the ASG last year.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you’d have Savard actually take over first line duties and put Backstrom back with Semin and Flash? I wouldn’t mind that.
by letsgocaps on Jun 30, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would play Savard with Semin. Backstrom is a better player, period. He is the franchise C of the future. I want him playing with AO now and for the rest of their tenure here. Savard is a good player but Backstrom is better defensively, better battling on the boards, and more physical.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Boston Globe has reported that the B’s are willing to trade Savard within the East. Savard has a NTC, and may have indicated that the only teams he’d consider are in Ontario.
by TylerG on Jun 30, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Mr. Savard... Thinking of you... DC
by Gould Old Days on Jun 30, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dear Mr. Savard,
You know what looks good for a center going into free agency? 70+ assists and 100+ points. You know how you could get those numbers? Playing with Alex Ovechkin and/or Alex Semin.
xoxoxoxoxoxo,
DMG
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d almost go Ovechkin-Savard- and Laich-Backstrom-Semin with that.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget apples and plums… Straight cash homey
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I really like about Savard is that three out of the last four years he has played all 82 games. The other year he played 74. That spells out durable for sure and we could really use dependability.
The difference between ORDINARY and extraORDINARY is that little "extra"
by Moufunction on Jun 30, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Want the money or Savard? Or the fruit?
by Gould Old Days on Jun 30, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
money + Savard + Stanley Cup
i could go for an apple from that basket, too.
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if you add in the fruit as a bonus?
by JSchon on Jun 30, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dear lord… i’m crying from laughing so hard. Especially the fruit basket!!!
by war_capitals on Jun 30, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The money. I’ll buy Savard and eat the fruit.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Marc Savard. You are one dirty bastard. Here is a fruit basket. Please stop.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
by Whiter Mage on Jun 30, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm. So, Ottawa or Toronto.
I dunno, I think it’s a conversation worth holding, noting that we may not be able to swing it.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Mr. Savard,
Come to DC. For every available guy (ie, you), there are 8 single women. There is also a lovely practice facility, nice museums, tolerable winters, excellent, walkable neighborhoods, Alex Ovechkin, and, oh, did I mention the women?
by RedBirdie on Jun 30, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um… I wouldn’t try to sell DC with the women. Quantity isn’t everything…
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do you have a link on that article?
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the list. Yeah, Savard would be the ideal. I just don’t know if Boston would be willing to let him go, particularly to the Caps. However, if they can’t move Kessel, he could be available. I don’t think Jeff would be a problem if he came back.
by b.orr4 on Jun 30, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What combination of picks / players do the CAPS out together for Savard? Its a salary dump for the B’s but what are they going to want in return?
by Direction 87 on Jun 30, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right. after the pronger deal…if savard really is on the market, my guess is that boston’s asking price will be too rich for GMGM’s blood.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a different situation for two big reasons:
- if the Bruins move Savard it will be because they need the cap space
- if the Bruins move Savard, he has control over where he goes (NTC)
So the Capitals would only have to outbid other teams Savard would be willing to move to. A lot fewer buyers + a team that needs to sell = lower asking price
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Boston can (or should be able to) make the cap situation work without dumping Savard for too low a return. It doesn’t help our bargaining position as much as it would for someone they’d have to move at all costs.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends what kinds of offers they get for Kessel. I can’t imagine them moving Savard unless the cap necessitates it though.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s hope that’s the case, because you’d have to think the CAPS would be on Savard’s list, but you also have to think it’s going to take at least a future first round pick plus an inexpensive roster player (flash?)
by Direction 87 on Jun 30, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would give up Flash for Savard in a heartbeat…. granted it wouldnt just be Flash. But if it comes down to that, welcome Mr. Savard to Washington DC
by amkcaps on Jun 30, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is in the "something else"
If Savard is to be moved to Washington, one of these four players would be leaving…
Karl Alzner
John Carlson
Semyon Varlamov
Michal Neuvirth
(yes, even with Tuukka Rask as goalie-in-waiting in Boston)
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 30, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, of course. Im just saying that if a deal comes in place, and the only piece that needs to be decided is whether or not they get Flash, then they can have him
by amkcaps on Jun 30, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this was my thought, also. GMGM had better be ready to give up one of the two goalie prospects or one of the two stud D prospects, PLUS a high pick or the equivalent. DMG, your point about the NMC is well-taken…so certainly we’d expect something shy of the pronger deal. but savard was one of the league’s best C’s last year, and if he moves the B’s will be looking for multiple prospects/picks.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless they end up desperate due to salary cap hell
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if they’re willing to move a player for 50 cents on the dollar, i’ll assume they can make a kessel trade work with someone. savard was their offensive lynchpin last season.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many Cs can you think of that you’d rather have than Savard? I can think of a lot (including one on WAS already). He had a really good year and was an all star but I don’t think I’d consider Savard elite.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but after the all-star season, i’d be shocked if there wasn’t an “elite” asking price. particularly to a playoff team in the east. i didn’t mean to compare savard directly to pronger; i meant to say that pronger’s deal (two NHLers, two first round picks and a conditional pick) casts a shadow over a potential savard move. do you disagree that savard would cost a top prospect, a first-round pick, plus change? not quite as rich as the pronger deal, but rich nonetheless. a savard move signals a run at the cup this year and a bit of a gamble, IMO.
and for the record, i count 8 centers i’d rather have than savard. but he climbs the list if i would only have the player for one year, 09-10.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could see Savard costing that much. I’m not sure I’d want to pay it but I could see a GM out there paying it. I don’t think Savard is a top 10 C in the league whether you are looking one year or several.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Neuvirth just handed Rask his tail in the Calder playoffs :)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Savard isn’t going to be able to pull the same return as Pronger. Savard isn’t one of the top 5 players at his position. Savard isn’t capable of dominating games by himself. Savard never carried a team to a Cup. Savard was a late bloomer who really showed up after the lockout, not a first ballot HoF stud. He won’t be cheap but he won’t pull 3 first round picks and a young and talented roster player.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW, nhlnumbers.com is far inferior to NHLSCAP (even if it is at Hockeybuzz).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know, I liked nhlnumbers.com better. Maybe I just found it easier to find what I wanted.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
100% agreed. capgeek.com is great. And if you go there and play around with a projected Boston roster you’ll quickly see they are headed to cap hell on the bullet train. There’s literally no way they can keep Savard and Kessel even if they shed another big salary. One of those two is definitely going.
by b.orr4 on Jun 30, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which lowers the leverage and makes it more likely that we can get Savard without giving up a goalie or Calrson/Alzner (though I agree with Peerless that BOS will certainly try to get one of those players). Every GM in the league knows the cap situation BOS is in and they aren’t going to let BOS take their future for one year of a great, but not elite, Center.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and yet the presence of kessel counterbalances the asking price. if cap concerns mean that boston is willing to move one of the two players for less than he’s worth, i’d choose the good, but not great, winger.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you take a winger over a center, especially for the Caps? Also, Savard is a one year rental, you don’t pick up Kessel to let him walk again. You pick up Kessel to help build a team around, and we don’t need core players anymore, we just need a guy to play with the existing core, i.e. a 2C.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry, i’m not being clear i guess.
if i’m boston….and i have cap troubles….and i have to offload one of my top forwards for less than market value….i offload the good winger, not the “great but not elite” center. i think kessel’s presence makes it way less likely savard is moved, and makes it almost impossible to get a bargain on savard.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I see what you’re saying. If they were at the same career point I’d agree. But you are looking at signing Savard to one more “retirement” contract or keeping Kessel long term to build your offense around. Savard has almost definitely topped out, Kessel could (and should) very well become a better player over the next 5-8 years. I’d take the franchise player over the 30+ C.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe our valuations of savard are closer than originally thought and our valuations of kessel are further apart than originally thought?
i’m uncomfortable paying kessel like a franchise player, and if i’m the B’s and i think he’ll be asking for that kind of money, i try to move him while his value is high. i’d be willing to pay savard like a franchise player if the term were reasonable (i.e. no more than 4 years). 31 isn’t old yet.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, 31 isn’t old, but it’s too old to build a team around. It’s hard for me to know how far apart we are on Kessel since I’m not even sure I know how I feel about him. I have been discussing this from the assumption that BOS thinks he is a franchise player. If they don’t think that then you are definitely right, sell high. He’s shown flashes and he’s American so I want him to pan out, but I could also see him never becoming more than a 30 goal guy, which isn’t terrible, but also isn’t franchise W material.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right. my fear as a GM would be that i would be stuck with someone below superstar level at a superstar price. that is to say NHL teams “build around” the game’s real stars (ovechkin, iginla, lecavalier, malkin, thornton, etc.), and when lesser players (spezza, hossa, sedins?) command comparable salaries, the paying team has a ceiling on its success.
obviously it’s a perfect world where you can let very good players walk out the door while you wait around for your very own ovechkin (and apparently teams can win titles with a solid all-around roster and eric fehr as their best player)…but even the word “franchise” near kessel’s name makes me cringe a little. if i’m trying to win a title during the chara years, i’m banking on savard over kessel. we’ll see. he is no doubt young, and has a scorer’s touch.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
um……replace eric fehr with eric staal. time to leave the office, Natty.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Might be a nicer site, but it’s accuracy is much more suspect. Not a big deal for spitballin, but if you try to get really in depth it starts to mess you up a bit.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not talking about interface (in which case I think I’m with you) – I’m talking about accuracy. My understanding is that NHLSCAP is much better-sourced (i.e. they have some).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course NHLSCAP is well sourced, they are at Hockeybuzz.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Before Hockeybuzz. They got picked up b/c the dude had ins.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Cammalleri
No one’s mentioned him yet? He’d look really nice as the second line center on this team. It depends though on what his objectives are. If he’s in it for the money, then I wouldn’t want to get into a bidding war where he might also fit (even in Calgary). If he wants to win a Cup, though, then DC might be a really good fit for him.
Let's go Caps!
by MikeL-Caps on Jun 30, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i’d imagine he would want a linger contract than the Caps would be willing to give him
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you read my mind.
" 60 percent of the time...it works everytime"
by shwedy on Jun 30, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s not really a center anymore.
He’s small (Ted keeps talking about size down the middle, don’t know if that’s hinting at what the team’s looking for or if it’s just talk).
He’s going to get a longer term than we can probably afford.
He’s going to get more money than we can probably afford.
Maybe if he takes a discount to play for Boudreau, but that seems unlikely to me.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t Bruce coach Cammalleri in the AHL?
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think in Manchester, yes.
" 60 percent of the time...it works everytime"
by shwedy on Jun 30, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. Bruce really loves him, I don’t know if the adoration is mutual or if Cammy is indifferent or what.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He actually makes less than Savard does today (3.35). A longer term would be a serious problem, though. I’d say he’s at the upper end of our price range.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cammy is my dream signing but it’s just not going to happen unless he would take a short-term deal to play in DC, and even then it would be very difficult. Unfortunately the guy did well enough last year that he’s going to be looking for his long-term deal now, and the Caps just can’t do it.
Despite his size, I think he would be a perfect fit for BB’s system and would make this team substantially more frightening offensively. And he could play C or wing.
by grapejoos on Jun 30, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Caps weren’t exactly an offensive mouse last year.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No argument here. But there’s never really such a thing as too much firepower (unless it comes at the expense of other necessary traits, which this might do). The Caps also lost their 2nd line center and a top RW from last year (as much as it pains me to describe Kozlov as such). Thinking Nylander and Clark can pick up that slack is wishful thinking IMO.
It doesn’t have to be Cammy, I just think he would be a really fun addition and would provide a lot of scoring on the 2nd line. But I do think the Caps need to acquire a forward (through trade or FA) better than Knuble if they don’t want to take a step back next year.
by grapejoos on Jun 30, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nylander produced the same offense as Fedorov last season. You don’t think he (or Laich) could do similar this year, with Feds’ better minutes?
As for Kozlov, really all you’re looking to replace is the chemistry. It’s not as if he was an offensive powerhouse, so with luck the development of Flash and/or Fehr will cover most of that loss.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First, Nyls played 20 more games than Fedorov to collect those 33 points, although Fedorov did get 2:30 more ice time per game on average (even though some of that was on D). That is not producing the same offense. On top of that, I thought Fedorov was a pretty weak #2 C last season for a contending team, and the Caps had trouble generating offense from the 2nd line as a result.
I think Nylander, at least based on last season, is practically worse than nothing at this point. The guy just doesn’t do anything well in the Caps’ system. He has skills but he turns the puck over and kills rushes due to his inability to skate north-south. He has no grit or physical element to his game. He is simply an easy guy to play against and doesn’t contribute a lot offensively in BB’s system, for whatever reason.
As for Kozlov, I agree by and large. He still scored 41 points, but he can be replaced. It’s easy to underrate his puck possession skills but he had some warts too. I can see guys on the team/in the system stepping in and making up for that production much more than I can filling the #2 C role.
by grapejoos on Jun 30, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nylander produced the same offense as Fedorov last season. You don’t think he (or Laich) could do similar this year, with Feds’ better minutes?
Nylander had a fewer more assists, but Fedorov scored more than twice as often. Plus Fedorov turns the puck over less, played better defense (imo), and wins faceoffs.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cammalleri
For me it’s the 2nd line center. And the guy I want to see the most signed is Cammalleri.
Yea the price might be upwards of 5-6 but the term will be the hardest part. But with a guy who is a great points producer and is only 26 (I believe) maybe a 4 year deal isn’t so bad.
Obviously Semin and Nick need extensions next year but what we are we looking at- an increase of 6 million total between the two? Jose and Pothiers money comes off the books and Nyls goes down to 3 million. The year after that Poti and Clark are gone ( of course Varly and Alzner would be due money).
But he’s a guy I wouldn’t mind giving a few years to given his age.
" 60 percent of the time...it works everytime"
by shwedy on Jun 30, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nyls cap hit is constant. That drop to 3 mil only helps for a buyout (or stashing him in the minors, or trading him to a team that cares about money and not the cap).
Not impossible, but probably a bit too much for us.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh ok. so Nyls actually stays at 5.5 next year in terms of the cap hit?
" 60 percent of the time...it works everytime"
by shwedy on Jun 30, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok got it, thanks.
" 60 percent of the time...it works everytime"
by shwedy on Jun 30, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The ideal situation is obviously to get Marly or Savard through a trade given the term of their contracts but that doesn’t look like it will happen.
" 60 percent of the time...it works everytime"
by shwedy on Jun 30, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
trade for Tuono Ruutu?
he’d be a pretty good fit either as a 2C or RW on the first line.
currently an RFA. made $2.25mil last yr.
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 10:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good target, but why would Carolina do it? In division trades are probably unlikely, especially since these two teams are going to be competing for the division title most likely.
That’s the thing that stinks. There are a lot of players that would be great trade targets, except they’re on teams that aren’t going to want to help the Caps at all, which means we’d probably be overpaying if we could get them at all.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we have a piece, say a redundant d-man, that they need, then it might work.
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not about them getting value, it’s about them helping their biggest competition. I guess I just don’t see it.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DMG’s post >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THIS ONE
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Havlat is still my dream signing this off-season.
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no…nononononononono to expensive free agents.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 30, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha, i came across that yesterday somehow. the guy just lists every top free agent with no salary cap context whatsoever.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From bleacher report:
Nik Antropov A rare combination of size and skill
And absolutely no brain…
by Gould Old Days on Jun 30, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And no heart. Or courage. He’s the tin man, cowardly lion and scarecrow all wrapped up in one.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No love for Mikael Samuelsson? I imagine he’ll be cheap-ish, has a great shot and has played well in the playoffs.
by treat on Jun 30, 2009 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He’d be interesting. I don’t know if he brings the right elements such as grit and D that we could probably use up front (especially to complement Ovie-Backstrom), and his production in a bigger role is a question.
I wouldn’t complain if he cam cheap, though.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Samuelsson strikes me as purely a product of the team/system he plays in. Removed from Detroit, he’ll go back to being a 2nd/3rd line swing guy. If he leaves Detroit, it’ll likely be because someone overpays. I’d rather that someone not be us.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a system that delivers consistency, hard work, crashing the net and confidence…not things that are we wouldn’t benefit from…then there is a Cup in the recent history. Which we lost any experience with Feds.
My thought is pluck him out of Detroit, let’s roll with it through the rest of the summer and to the trade deadline with that and pick what we can then. Hopefully we will see some production out of Circles and that increases his value to us or another team.
Nyls and Theo’s contracts are the killers and there is nothing we can do to trade them. If the KHL wants circles great, let them pay his salary. I dont have a problem with Theo splitting the season with Varly, its what he needs for conditioning before him or Varly take over next year.
Have no idea what happens this year, doubt it’s a big splash. Next year though….contracts will be more interesting when we could buy out Nyls and Theo’s money will be gone.
Promote the game, it's the NHL, not SCHL
by kurlNdrag on Jun 30, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. He’s going to be the subject of bidding simply because of playing for DET, and I don’t think he’d be worth the final price.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assume we’re out of the market for the Sedins?
That’s a shame…I would love to have them here
Ron and Fez Noon to Three
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 30, 2009 12:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you sign the Sedins then by definition you kiss Sasha, Backis, Green or some combination thereof goodbye. They’re looking for a combined contract on the order of $15m/year+ over many years. No, thank you.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, that would fill both of our positions of need in one fell swoop…
if it meant saying do svidaniya to semin only, i’d be okay with it. but at their current demands, the sedins would probably mean trouble by the time green/varly came back for re-ups.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what i’ve read, they want 12 and 63, which is only about 5.25 a year. For both of them, thats 10.5, which ain’t really all that bad considering how good they are
Ron and Fez Noon to Three
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 30, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Besides, seeing as we live in a world where Scott Gomez makes 8 and Daniel Briere makes 9, is it really all that bad to pay the Sedins together 10.5?
Ron and Fez Noon to Three
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jun 30, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was under the impression that Vancouver had already offered them more than that and they rejected it. From what I’ve read (admittedly, not enough), he put up an offer for $11m/year for both, they turned that down and that he’s gone up from there and they’re still holding out. Maybe they don’t want $15m/year total, but I think they can argue for at least $6-6.5m each. Like you say below, in a world where Gomez makes 8 and Briere makes 9, $6-7m per Sedin doesn’t seem exorbitant.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HELLS NO o.o
DO. NOT. WANT. Not for that contract price.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep calm and carry on
The last few years seem to have taught us some things about free-agency signings in the salary-cap world:
1) No long-term contracts or NMCs for players in their 30s. Yes, it can save you some money up front, but it’s not worth it in the long run. Better to overpay by $2m for a two-year contract than spend less on a 3-4 year contract with an NMC, because chances are you’ll be kicking yourself toward the end of the contract. Penny-wise and pound-foolish.
2) Get the guy you want. Rafalski, Chara, Savard. All good FA signings, and all the PLAYERS that the GM wanted. Not just the position. The exact guy. Fixating on filling a roster spot leads teams to overpay for lesser talents. You’re going to end up overpaying anyhow (it’s free agency after all), so get exactly what you want, or regroup.
3) If you can’t get the guy you want, have a decent and flexible plan B. Good examples: Pittsburgh lost out on Hossa and Malone left, so the signed two guys on the cheap (Satan and Fedotenko), which left them room to pick up what they really needed at the deadline (Kunitz and Guerin). Same thing with San Jose: they “lost out” on Brian Campbell, so they replaced him with Dan Boyle and Rob Blake. They got better production without committing to a huge contract for just one guy. Bad example: Colorado cheaped out on Jose Theodore and ended up with Andrew Raycroft and Peter Budaj tending goal. Then they realized that they “needed a winger” so they went out and signed Darcy Tucker to a multi-year contract. Or the NY Rangers: “we need a D, and Wade Redden used to be really good.” DUMB DUMB DUMB.
4) Leave room for mid-season acquisitions. Everything seems so clear in the offseason. The strengths and weaknesses of the team are obvious, as are the roster holes. In the summer of 2007, it seemed obvious that the Caps needed a #1 C, a puck-rushing defenseman and a top-line winger. It turned out that we really didn’t need either of the first two things, but we signed them anyhow, and to long-term contracts no less. Given the emergence of Backstrom and Mike Green, that extra $9m of cap space sure would be helpful right about now. Last year, the team seemed to really need a #1 goalie. Well, for much of the year, Johnny was our #1 keeper, and we turned to a 20-year old rookie in the postseason. Now we’re discussing trading Theodore for a used jock strap just to be rid of his contract. The point of all this is: nothing is clear in the offseason. The first 25-40 games of the regular season should tell you what you’ve got and what your holes are. Fill them in then. It’s much easier, cheaper and more effective to fill holes via deadline trades than it is to sign free agents.
5) Never sign guys coming off of “great years,” or “outstanding postseasons.” They’re almost universally overpaid. In particular, avoid players who show the following: an anomalous jump in shooting % above career norms leading to a rise in goal-scoring; a sudden increase in PP time; a shift from a bottom line to a top line; or a scoring explosion in the post-season. Instead, look for guys with steady production and underlying skills, even if their stats the year prior are sub-par. That’s how you end up with steals like Dan Cleary and Michael Ryder and avoid guys like Radim Vrbata.
6) Avoid the temptations of the “shiny and new.” I think we all agree that going into next season with either Brooks Laich or Michael Nylander as our #2C is sub-optimal. However, given the crop of #2Cs available either via free agency or trade, how much of an upgrade do they represent over the Nylander/Laich combo? What about the risk that they won’t “fit the system,” or the costs of acquiring them (either in terms of cap space for a free agent, or in terms of players/picks/prospects for a trade). Personally, I’d much rather have the sub-optimal result for half the year and then acquire someone we actually want at the deadline than have some sexy FA signing that sounds great in July but doesn’t pan out come next June.
If the Caps can get a good deal on a short-term contract for a player like Knuble, or they can swing a trade for a guy like Savard who’s a clear and obvious upgrade over existing players, then do it. However, for the love of God, don’t go out and sign an older guy like Koivu to a 3-year deal with an NMC because we “need” a #2C.
Thankfully, given what GMGM has been saying, it seems unlikely that he’ll follow that path. However, he has been known to throw up the odd smokescreen in the past.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 12:33 PM EDT reply actions 12 recs
Very solid thinking. I love the idea of having Savard here, but it could well break the bank. Camalleri isn’t a bad notion, but he might be longer-term than we want, as others have said.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, we’re at a point where we’ve GOT to find out what we’ve got in Hershey, because the answer is most likely “more than we think”.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree. In fact, I think the answer is most likely “less than we think.”
There’s no scoring-line center there.
There’s likely no scoring-line RW there.
There may be two defensemen, and a few bottom six forwards (and, of course, potentially a goalie or two, and we’ll see what Bourque and Osala have, though I think the latter is a year away from getting his shot). That’s what’s there, imo.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, that’s exactly it. Bourque or Osala may be able to fill one of those holes. Let’s wait and look at development camp before we decide we need to go out and overspend for x, y, and z, because like D’ohboy points out, we’re usually wrong about what we think we need and that’s what got us into this mess in part.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But we know – 100% sure – the Caps do not have a legitimate second-line playmaking center in the organization currently. I’m fine waiting on a wing – like I’ve said before, skate DMG with one of the Alexes and Nick or a legit #2C and we’ll be fine.
But there is a need that we know exists and for which there is no acceptable internal solution. This is what free agency and/or trading is for.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m fine waiting on a wing – like I’ve said before, skate DMG with one of the Alexes and Nick or a legit #2C and we’ll be fine.
And I’ll play for the minimum!
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'd buy a jersey.
Your favorite meme is dead
by Edanger6 on Jun 30, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, they sort of do. Alex Semin brings (almost) everything you’d want out of the 2nd line C position except faceoffs. If there are no other options using Laich in that spot isn’t going to sink this team just because he can’t be a playmaker, not if you augment him with Semin and plan the system in such a way to allow Semin (or even Flash) to be the playmaker.
Far from ideal, but this team isn’t going to ultimately fail because of the 2nd line C.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you play in a Conference with Crosby/Malkin, Carter/Richards, Staal/Brind’Amour, etc., I actually think that a team can ultimately fail because of the 2nd line C.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It also highlights how important it is to have two solid D pairings to shut them down, right? ;)
Semin is a better winger than any of those teams have on their 2nd lines, and he’s a better playmaker than Brindy and Richards (doesn’t have the same D game of course). Why can’t we use him as the C and just have Laich be the gritty winger that takes faceoffs?
Again, I’m not saying its what I want. I’m saying I think we’re going to be a little disappointed about who we really can get as the 2nd line C right now, and that it’s not going to be the end of the world as long as we augment other aspects of the team shrewdly.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that if you get a real, playmaking 2C that can play this system, not only are you getting an upgrade at the position, but you’re getting a much better Alex Semin than you have if you put Laich there. In other words, you’re maximizing your assets rather than making do with what you’ve got.
Alex Semin doesn’t make guys around him better. Most wings don’t (AO is an extreme rarity, as if you didn’t know that already). Good centers do.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Again, I am not advocating the “Laich at C” strategy as the optimal one. I do believe it is the most realistic one unless Nylander disappears, though, so maybe I’m just setting myself up to cope with it by convincing myself it’s not so bad.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree that it is most realistic at this point and that it is workable in a pinch.
But if Brooks is the 2C in April, we’re in a world of shit.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It goes beyond just the second line center though. If the Capitals fill that second line center spot, they drop Laich to wing (where he’s better) and depending on other offseason moves, maybe the third line. Either way that’s one less top nine forward spot them have to fill, which lets them move someone else down a line, etc.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Laich – Steckel – Bourque or something like that is a pretty good third line. You lose a lot of that effectiveness if Laich moves to one of the top 2 lines.
by Gould Old Days on Jun 30, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t count your third line chickens – not long ago we were touting how awesome Pettinger-Gordon-Clark was as a 3rd line.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the more reason to have a guy like Laich, who we more or less know to expect, in line for one of those spots.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 30, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that’s a fair point. But you’ve already got Ovie, Semin, Flash, Clark, Bradley, Bourque, Fehr (once he’s healthy) as wingers. Figure someone like Beagle or Laing might make the jump, figure you might see an outside addition (someone like Knuble or Larose, or even someone like Laperierre).
And of course there’s Nylander…
Laich is better on the wing, no argument there. But we’ve got lots of guys we can use in those winger spots if we have to.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The way I see it now (if Laich plays center) is something like this:
Ovechkin-Backstrom-Fleischmann
Semin-Laich-Bourque
Beagle-Steckel-Clark
??-Gordon-Bradley
Even when Fehr comes back, that group just doesn’t do it for me. I guess my concern with wingers is yours on defense: sure, there are guys who they can plug in the lineup, but they’re not all that good.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m guessing they try:
Ovie – Backstrom – new guy or Clark
Flash – Lach or Nylander – Semin
Bourque or Laich – Steckel – Bradley
new guy or Bourque or Laing – Gordon – Clark or Beagle
Those top two lines are going to score almost no matter what. The PP shouldn’t change as long as everyone’s healthy. It really depends on who “new guy” is as to how strong the forward corps. is, I guess.
Again, I’m not saying I’m all that thrilled about it overall. I just do not see any available 2nd line C’s that this team is going to be able to go after seriously AND that is going to make the type of impact we’re all hoping for.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends what the impact we’re looking for is. I’d love to have Marleau or Savard or someone of that caliber, but I think all the team needs is someone who can play on the second line and give the team more depth. They don’t need to grab a first line talent and play him on line two, but they need to find some way that they’re not expecting Laing or Beagle to be playing on the third line.
by David M. Getz on Jun 30, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The PP will change b/c both Feds and Koz were on it.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither were staples of the first unit, though, they only got spot duty. That was Semin-Laich-Backstrom Ovie-Green.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, it was more often Semin/Flash/Backstrom/AO/Green. I wish it was your way…
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find it interesting that Clark seems to be either a first or fourth-line winger depending on the scenario, but no one ever puts him in-between.
by Scott in Shaw on Jun 30, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since his 30 goal year he hasn’t shown an in between. He went from legit 1RW to worthless. Either he shows up and can play 1RW or he basically has to be on the 4th line. That’s my take.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, I don’t see ANYONE in this org stepping up and being the 2nd line center. However i am totally fine with trying Clark or Fehr on that top spot with Ovy and Backs.
Hell I’d even throw Bourque up for a few games.
" 60 percent of the time...it works everytime"
by shwedy on Jun 30, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally with you there. I just don’t think you’re going to be able to get more than one pf the caliber player you’re seeking with the money that is realistically likely to be available.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 30, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not the center problem. That’s the one that come screaming off the page when you look at the Caps system, top to bottom. There is Backstrom, and there there is that pit that Leonidas shoved the Persians into in that movie (let’s remember, neither Gustafsson nor Johansson have played a minute of North American hockey). If the Caps are going to contend this season, that hole has to be filled. If they are going to be a perennial contender, they have to deal with that problem.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 30, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is lil Gus coming over this year, or staying in Sweeden for one more? Regardless, he is a longer term solution, and we can’t expect him to give anything to the Caps for a couple of seasons at best.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He should be staying to get time in the SEL, i believe. And Johansson will likely get a boatload more ice time next year.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 30, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
these guys are 2-4 years from being productive NHL centers, no? thats a looong time
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed, it is a long time. I was asking about Anton Gus out of curiosity, not plugging him into next year’s lineup.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, saw that after i had posted my response to DP. in zombie mode today.
by ns on Jun 30, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, according to Corey HERE Gus is staying in Sweeden for another year.
So that is potentially 45 guys under contract already for next year, but that’s only if all eight of the RFAs are retained and all eight kids play for Hershey/South Carolina. Gustafsson is not coming over, so it is likely to be 44 at most.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. GMGM saying they draft the best player available strikes me as a bit disingenuous as well. Maybe that’s what they tell themselves but the Caps keep drafting Swedish centers hoping more than one of them will stick in the future.
Despite McPhee’s smokescreen at the draft, no one who watched Laich play last year thinks he’s a second line center. As this discussion has demonstrated (and a funny post on Puck Daddy), the UFA options at center all have issues and will likely cost too much which is why a trade is a more likely option. We have lots of assets but it’s going to take trading something of value to get something of value in return. That is, unless our trading partner is desperate or a Milbury-like idiot. Hope springs eternal.
by Lisita on Jun 30, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except by the time you know whether or not they fit, it’s usually too late to fill in the hole unless you’re looking at scraps.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is if we wait for development camp the FA solutions may already be signed. We may not be able to wait and still plug the holes.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that the answer is probably “less than we think.” I’m just a little surprised by your (apparent) take on Perreault and Bouchard. Neither of them seem like bottom 6 forwards and you don’t seem high on the potential of top 6 guys there, so you seem to think those guys are duds. I think one of them will be able to contribute to the Caps in 2 years but it will probably be at wing, regardless of who it is.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, neither of them are likely to contribute this season, and that may be all JP meant.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been wondering about this, especially the effects (if any) of Woods coming in to join Gabby. Two coaches with love affairs for Hershey alums? GMGM will have to keep being steady, for sure.
by cuqui on Jun 30, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d move into the “get rid of nylander” camp if we could get Camalleri. It’s been said before, probably by me, that the team just hasn’t had the same chutzpah since Halpern left.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
by Whiter Mage on Jun 30, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus, you and your wordy posts. But that’s a good thing.
by Bald Pollack on Jun 30, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair (Fehr?), it’s been a while since I’ve dropped a word-bomb like this.
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understood. It was nice to see in a Nigel Tufnel kind-of-way, hopefully it’ll reduce some of the jazz fusion going on now.
by Bald Pollack on Jun 30, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been very influenced by the classics. You know. . . Bach, Brahms. . .
I call this one “Lick My Love Pump.”
by D'ohboy on Jun 30, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any hope for Oduya now is gone, as New Jersey resigned him. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=283313
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
by Whiter Mage on Jun 30, 2009 1:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep – $3.5m/year. He must have Jeff Finger’s agent.
Sidenote: Shaone Morrisonn and agent smile…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no kidding. I have a bad feeling we’re going to end up walking away from Mo’s arbitration award and lose him for nothing.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 30, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God, 3rd round pick for Mo, here we come.
by Bald Pollack on Jun 30, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
New Pick ’Em is up – go and, um, pick ’em.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 30, 2009 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’ll reiterate that I am not a UFA fan for the available centers this summer, but trading for the rights to negotiate with an RFA, if we do not go the expiring contract route, seems like a good way to go about addressing 2C.
For one, the ask back from a team is going to be less, and for another, the price point for such a player will work better under our cap. Give me a low flier, younger and groomable, like Plekanec (mtl) or Bolland (chi), and I think we will be just fine right there.
Sure, I’d love to have MSavard piloting with 8—and such a move would put us at the top of the conference in terms of strength at center—but at what cost? I’d rather not have a ‘name’ at 2C if it’s going to cost us the moon.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 30, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bolland already signed an extension (a bit of a pricey one too).
Plekanec is an interesting choice, but he’s small and they may avoid him for that.
I’d love someone like Dubinsky even though he doesn’t bring as much offense as we’d want (not enough to be an upgrade over Laich), but the Rangers wouldn’t trade him anyways.
Grabovski is another guy that could be a good offensive player but doesn’t have much in the way of size.
I don’t know. It’s an interesting thought, that’s for sure.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn’t see the Bolland extension…that IS beefy, but a good deal for Chicago over 5 years.
Staying with RFA’s on the wing, Ryan Callahan for our 1RW would thrill me.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 30, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes please. No way the Rags do it, but yes please.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed—they’d be nuts not to sign him
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 30, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plekanec played us well last year, that’s why he sticks out in my mind.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 30, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only way to sign an RFA is overpay. Why risk this, regardless of how good the player might be?
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Jun 30, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i usually figure you have to overpay at one point or another in order to win. bill simmons used to talk about this when the red sox signed manny ramirez way back when. the question is which guys do you overpay (the player better at least live up to his past billing), and the team will still need some bargains left on the roster to compensate. but if it’s a guy that brings exactly the right element to the locker room and to the ice (callahan could be that guy), then maybe he’s worth it.
side point: GMGM has spoken out against signing RFAs in the past, but GMGM is also pathological about bluffing to the media, so i might need someone to explain to me why we expect him to stick to his word on this one.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bill Simmons is an idiot. Not for that specific quote…just in general.
by wittcap79 on Jun 30, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he’s an idiot about a lot of things, yes. if i were more into basketball at this moment in time, i might be tempted to read his new book. he knows his hoops.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The talk was about trading for them, not signing offer sheets.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right, and that’s a key point.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 30, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I follow…why must one always overpay an RFA?
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 30, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because if you make a fair offer the team holding the rights will just match. The only time they wouldn’t would be if they were completely incapable of matching because they were already up against the cap.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again, this line of discussion is about trading for their rights, not signing them to offer sheets.
by brs03 on Jun 30, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why must one always overpay an RFA?
That’s the question I answered.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bad thread response alignment—my bad
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Jun 30, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Savard has that diva vibe around him, no?
There’s just something about that twerp I don’t like. Something intangible. Like the anti-Ovechkin/Iginla, but puts up an assload of points. Lack of character?
I’d rather have me a Cammalleri and/or a Knuble. I think they wiould be awesome complements to the roster. Cammy will go way high, though.
by S h a g g y on Jun 30, 2009 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Said one rival GM: “If he’s getting his points and the Bruins are doing well, he’ll be great. If he’s not getting his points and the Bruins are doing well, I’m not so sure how happy he’ll be.”
Savard can shed his career-long “me-first” label by continuing to work both sides of the puck, whether the points flow or not.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 30, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Caveats about teams not wanting to deal with rivals notwithstanding, the Flyers are shopping Hartnell and Gagne. I would love either of them. I have no idea what the cost would be, but I’d imagine it will not be cheap for either player. Gagne would immediately be our biggest PK threat, and is an elite offensive talent with great defensive responsibility. Hartnell is obviously a dirty SOB that pisses off everything that makes visual contact with him. He also brings all the things the Caps need to compliment their top 6 talent.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jun 30, 2009 9:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
22 | 13 | 5 | 4 | 30 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
19 | 8 | 4 | 7 | 23 |
|
Atlanta
|
18 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 22 |
|
Florida
|
20 | 9 | 9 | 2 | 20 |
|
Carolina
|
21 | 4 | 12 | 5 | 13 |
(updated 11.21.2009 at 8:36 AM EST)
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
