2008-09 Rink Wrap: Jeff Schultz
by David Getz on Jun 16, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
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PrintFrom Alzner to Varlamov, we're taking a look at and grading the 2008-09 season for every player who laced 'em up for the Caps for a significant number of games during the campaign, with an eye towards 2009-10. Next up, Jeff Schultz.
Jeff Schultz
#55 / Defenseman / Washington Capitals
6-6
221
Feb 25, 1986
3
RFA; qualifying offer of $715,000 needed to retain rights.
6.32
Key Stats: In his three NHL seasons, Schultz has been tied for first, first, and second among Capitals defensemen in plus-minus. He also has the highest plus-minus among all Caps skaters in that time frame.
Reminder Interesting Stat: Schultz is younger than both Alex Ovechkin and Mike Green.
The Good: Schultz once again had a year of generally consistent, solid-but-unspectacular play, proving himself to be an effective defenseman and one capable of playing second pairing minutes, coming almost exclusively five-on-five (Schultz had the second most even strength minutes per game among Capitals defensemen) and on the penalty kill (Schultz was also second in shorthanded time per game).
In five-on-five situations Schultz was one of only two Capitals defensemen - Mike Green was the other- who had a GFON/60 than was significantly higher than his GAON/60. It's also worth noting that both of Schultz's regular defensive partners, Green and Milan Jurcina, had their rate of team goals for go up and the rate of team goals against go down when they were paired with Sarge as opposed to other partners.
Four-on-five Schultz was one of the team's better penalty killers, making use of his big body and long reach to post a better four-on-five GAON/60 than Shaone Morrisonn, Karl Alzner and Tom Poti.
What is perhaps most impressive is that Schultz played so many difficult minutes without making very many mistakes: he took fewer penalties than any defenseman other than Alzner and gave the puck away fewer times per game other than anyone aside of Morrisonn. What Schultz does best may just be what's most likely to go underappreciated by fans: being able to take a regular shift at the NHL level without making mistakes. That in and of itself is a skill few people in this world posses and while it's not as flashy as a big hit or a fight, it's a lot more likely to help your team win a hockey game.
The Bad: Schultz might do a pretty good job of mitigating the weaknesses in his game, but they're still obvious and they're still significant enough to cause him problems. He's about as awkward-looking a skater you'll find at the NHL level (tossing out guys who are only in the league to fight) and his deliberateness with the puck and clumsy hands make handling the puck a problem, especially when trying to keep it in at the point. Sarge also plays for too tentatively at times, and has a tendency to get caught flat-footed as a result of slow decision-making. No matter how aware Sarge is of these issues, they're ones skilled forwards will be able to exploit until the big guy simply gets better.
Schultz's offense was a disappointment too. It's not that anyone expect Schultz to contribute much from the blue line - that's simply not his skill set or mentality - but that he didn't score a single goal with a goaltender in the opposition's net after potting five during the '07-'08 campaign has to be considered a step backwards.
And then of course, there was this:
Of course, we now know Schultz was playing with a broken rib, making it difficult or even impossible for him to move in the way he would have needed to in order to be able to make the play. Still, that's the kind of ugly, high-profile gaffe that can stick with a kid.
The Vote: Rate Schultz below on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the best) based on his performance relative to his potential and your expectations for the season - if he had the best year you could have imagined him having, give him a 10; if he more or less played as you expected he would, give him a 5 or a 6; if he had the worst year you could have imagined him having, give him a 1.
The Discussion: Where does Schultz ranked in the Capitals' defensive heirarchy going into next season? Has he solidified a top four role for himself or will Jurcina, Alzner, and possibly even Pothier make it possible that Schultz finds his way to the third pairing?
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Ladies and gentlemen, I welcome you to the Hockey IQ test… much is about to be revealed….
by TylerG on Jun 16, 2009 7:11 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Also pertinent: Where else are you going to get that much production from a 3/4 D for ~$800K?
by TylerG on Jun 16, 2009 7:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
For this reason ALONE I gave him an 8
People’s expectations – including our humble moderator JP – are too high.
by S h a g g y on Jun 16, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Being a top 30 pick brings pretty high expectations, though. He brought it on himself, being so damn good in Junior. He should’ve known better.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I think my expectations are reasonable and based solely on a combination of what I’ve seen from him and what I believe to be a reasonable progression from it.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Rob Scuderi @ $725k
…and about 15-20 other guys I could think of off the top of my head. Schultz is a decent bargain, but it’s not like we’re getting a Ferrari for $100k (that’s reserved for Mike Green on his entry contract or some such disparity).
We got a Hyundai for $10k instead of $12k. He gets you to work, but looks pretty dorky doing it.
Rob Scuderi is also 29 and has been in PIT’s organization forever. Schultz has way more upside and is probably the better dman already.
Yes he does. He has tremendous reach/wingspan and he uses his stick (in the D zone) better than any Caps D.
Pre-coffee snark is always risky, BP. Pre-coffee snark on a Jeff Schultz post? Downright death-defying.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Figured I’d give it a shot.
I think that the non-Rink populace should really re-evaluate their view of the guy (hence the snark). Considering both how he has played so far at this age and how much he can build on, he’s a valuable part of the team.
by Bald Pollack on Jun 16, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Absolutely. I’m not saying he’d have done anything about Crosby in our crease, but I can guarantee fewer turnovers and better break-out passing with a healthy Schultz. We missed him in the playoffs.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopefully he grows into his body and gets stronger on his skates, which will allow him to have something to say about the Crosbys (Crosbies?) that park in the crease.
He doesn’t need to deliver highlight reel hits in order to be physically effective, but he does need a strong pair of pins and good balance to tie up a guy’s stick and move him away from the money areas.
I’ve learned that if you’re going to snark, especially as done above, you probably need to make some kind of emoticon or parenthetical remark so people get it. It’s the internets, you know. :-)
For the record, I got the snark, even before I read the reaction.
to me, what’s great is getting to know the personalities around here, and adjusting my reading accordingly. BP + leading off a jeff schultz post with a complaint about hitting = snark.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 16, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Was it? I happen to think that Schultz does use his stick well.
by Moonage Daydream on Jun 16, 2009 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions
BP was making a joke about people hating on 55 for not hitting. I don’t think he’d disagree at all that he does use his reach and stick (and thus his size) very well.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Ahhh coffee
7, that was also an easy one. I thought he progressed nicely and in 2-3 years could be a 1 or 2 guys if he learns to skate. And if not, he’s still a solid 3-4 guy. How some of you people can give him below a 4 is beyond the realm of my little brain…
I personally don’t think he’ll improve his skating to the point where we might hope, but I also don’t mind him being one of the cheapest, most effective 3 or 4 in the league, either. I, too, gave him a 7.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
What were you hoping for? More to the point with respect to this vote, what did you expect that you didn’t get?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
You’re asking me to think—and write a detailed, reasoned comment—at this hour of the morning? I was hoping for marked improvement from last year, which didn’t seem to materialize. I also thought he faded in March and April (not that he was alone in this). I’m regarding a "5" as what I expected, so a "4" is only a knock of one point. On the other hand, I hardly ever notice him on the ice, which is considered to be an asset for a defenseman, so maybe my dream of becoming an NHL scout will never be a reality.
An aside on the blog software: It’s really, really cool watching comments update in real-time without a page refresh. Kudos to SB Nation.
Did we ever get clarification on when he got hurt? Granted, a broken rib would likely have healed before the playoffs if he’d suffered it in March, but that could certainly explain his March-April fade.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
A key fact in my mind is his age. It amazes me that people want to give up on him. Assuming his play does not deteriorate dramatically, I give him two more years of development before even considering casting him aside.
by Moonage Daydream on Jun 16, 2009 7:56 AM EDT reply actions
If you’re getting what he gives you in two years, likely for around $1.5M/, why would you then consider tossing him aside?!?!?! Isn’t a top four D at that price (or even $500K more) pure gold in a capped NHL?
I am not saying that I would toss him aside in two years. I agree that he is and may well continue to be a bargain. I was merely commenting upon my amazement that people have already given up on the kid.
by Moonage Daydream on Jun 16, 2009 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Anyone who rates Schultz lower than they rated Poti has no right to have their opinions expressed and taken seriously in this or any other hockey forum.
Notice how there are ZERO stats produced by Japers to let you know what the bad is with Schultz. Only that a tall skinny 23 year old is awkward on skates.
Schultz has the most important thing already at age 23, hockey sense, and it translates into unspectacular boring sound defense, and there is nothing wrong with that.
He’ll get better on skates and his reaction time will improve. I give him a 7.
Jeff Schultz and Eric Fehr are my two favorite Caps to defend this year. Last year I had to defend Flash and Green.
Jeff Schultz and Eric Fehr are my two favorite Caps to defend this year.
You must be DMG’s long lost, far more abrasive brother.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
If we were ever to rename this blog, you’d be hard-pressed to find a more fitting name, given the pixels we’ve spilt on those guys.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And there’s no problem with defending the littlest BIG guys on the team!
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And his limited PP time makes the sample from which that stat is drawn somewhat dubious.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 16, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
JP & DMG… Don’t you think if Fehr is given the chance to play RW with Ovie and Backstrom that he’d put up 50 points?
I’m curious to see what kind of offer they make him.
As I said when we Wrapped Fehr, on one hand, he produced despite not getting any PP time and very little in terms of consistent, quality linemates. On the other hand, every time he was given a shot at a bigger role, it seems, he failed to take advantage. But yeah, if he skated 82 games with those two, he – or just about anyone with any skill – should be a 50-point guy.
These shoulder injuries come at a bad time for him – a time when he needs to be in the weight room getting ready for a make-or-break season.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Clark hasn’t been given a chance, when healthy, to regain his 30-goal role alongside Ovie. I think he could still do it, and should be given a shot.
However… If Det signs Hossa, and Holmstrom has to walk cause they can’t afford him, I wouldn’t mind seeing that big fat ass on our top line.
Clark hasn’t been given a chance, when healthy, to regain his 30-goal role alongside Ovie.
Has there been a time when he actually was healthy? To me, he doesn’t seem to have fully regained his speed since the groin injury, and sans speed, he’s ineffective. Hopefully he’ll be 100% healthy (for realz!) come the fall.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I would. He’s going to get paid on the basis of reputation. He was 0-3-3, -4 in his last 19 playoff games, 0-8-8, +1 in his last 18 regular season games (overall, 2-13-15, -1 in the last 41 games he played this year). If he’s looking for a raise from $2.25 million, one would have to wonder…he’ll be 37 a midseason next year…is he done?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 16, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I probably think he wouldn’t, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he did. The thing is he’s probably not going to put up 40+ even strength points even with those guys, so unless he also makes it on to the first powerplay unit his overall point totals won’t be that high.
Definitely a good point that I guess I assumed in my answer – he’d need to get PP time to bust 50-points.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I’d argue the other side, actually. Given the flashes (wrong word?) of brilliance he’s shown, I’d be surprised if, when playing with truly superior linemates, he wouldn’t be able to either feed off of them, or simply pick up the garbage.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
In his two seasons with AO, Dainius Zubrus had 29 and 31 even strength points.
In Chris Clark’s 30-goal season, he had 34 even strength points (after having 34 the year before in his 20-goal campaign).
Viktor Kozlov had 43 and 26 ESPs in his two seasons in D.C. (of note, those are the only two of these seasons listed in which Backstrom was a Cap).
In other words, Fehr would likely be hard-pressed to get to 40 even strength points, even playing with AO and Nick, though Kozlov did it a season ago.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Fehr is also about 4 times as talented than anyone not named Kozlov, who, in terms of talent, loses only to Semin. I think a healthy, 10-20 lbs. heavier Fehr would be a delightful addition to the 1st line.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
But points don’t come as easily from the RW as they do from the C (see Zubrus). I’m not saying he wouldn’t work there, I’m just not sure the huge ES point totals would necessarily follow.
Know how many times Tomas Holmstrom has had even 30 even strength points? Twice in a dozen seasons.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
If chemistry is discovered between Backs, Ovie, and Fehr, you can be sure that he’ll get PP time to match. Not to mention, Holmstrom has never played opposite Ovechkin or anyone like him. If he had all those rebounds that Ovechkin creates, he’d come close to 40 or 50 goals a year.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
If chemistry is discovered between Backs, Ovie, and Fehr, you can be sure that he’ll get PP time to match.
I don’t know about that. If you’re using three forwards on the powerplay, they’re going to be Ovechkin, Semin, and Backstrom most of the time and if you’re using four forwards, Ovechkin’s on the point.
Not to mention, Holmstrom has never played opposite Ovechkin or anyone like him. If he had all those rebounds that Ovechkin creates, he’d come close to 40 or 50 goals a year.
Maybe not someone like Ovechkin per se, but definitely some pretty good teams with a lot of offensive talent.
I don’t know, I liked Ovi better on the half-wall – the puck had a tendency to jump his stick too much when he was on the point.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I think that Ovechkin by himself is better utilized on the side of the net in a forward position but I also think the dropoff between him and whomever takes his place on the point is bigger than between him and whomever takes his place as a forward. If three of the spots are taken by Green, Semin, and Backstrom, I think the team’s better off with Ovechkin and Laich than Ovechkin and Poti.
That all could change, too, if Carlson comes up. Dunno if you watched him in Hershey at all, but he plays on their PP and has a wicked point shot, plus does the keep-in thing very well. If he comes up and gets time on the PP, could you then park Ovi in or near the net (I like that idea, good luck to the PKer’s trying to move him) and move say Semin to the second PP unit? Not a demotion, but I get tired of seeing Ovi out there for all two minutes and having a dangerous weapon out there for both PP’s might be interesting.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
No matter what, I wouldn’t put Ovechkin in front of the net. His biggest weapon is his shot and being there mitigates its effectiveness, but other guys can stand in front just as well.
The issue with Carlson is whether he can play on his off side at the NHL level. If he can play the left point and the team likes him on the PP they could go with Ovechkin-Backstrom-Semin-Carlson-Green on one unit and move Laich down. I’d keep Semin on the first unit no matter what because of his skill level.
For the foreseeable future it’s probably more likely Carlson plays on the right side of the second unit with Poti.
Maybe in an end-game sitch, only. I would split them up and have two dangerous D-pairs, otherwise.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
But everyone complains about having a 2nd PP unit that isn’t that effective and putting all your eggs in one basket. I can see putting Semin on the second unit doing two things – minimizing the cutesy that he does when he plays with Ovi and adding some punch to that second unit.
Enh, we’d all do something different.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Why are we complaining about a PP that finished with the second-best efficiency in the entire NHL? Because they weren’t the best? Because they were “only” 25.2% successful?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 16, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Isn’t half of life looking for things to possibly improve upon?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
If so, that half is better spent looking at the forechecking scheme, breakouts and penalty kill.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
2nd-best is just the first loser, JP, you know that!
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I would become a polygamist if we rolled two balanced PP units with Ovie-Green on the first and Semin-Carlson on the second.
by Scott in Shaw on Jun 16, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
good isn’t good enough!
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 16, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, must’ve been tough riding shotgun with Datsyuk and Zetterberg.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
You’d compare Ovie’s shot to theirs?
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
No, I get that, but Zetterberg/Datsyuk don’t bring anywhere near the raw power that Ovie does. You have to remember that Ovie can score on goalies who see the shot the whole way.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Now we’re being silly. What does raw power have to do with a linemate’s ability to get points that trumps, say, a great dangler and a phenomenal passer?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
The rebounds created, i mean, as I say just below this.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d compare their playmaking and overall skillsets to AO’s and Nick’s.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
The only argument I’m making is that Zetterberg/Datsyuk together create, perhaps, a fourth of the total rebounds that Ovechkin does (i have no proof for this number whatsoever). Ovechkin had 500 shots by himself, 56 of which went in. How many rebounds does that leave?
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think Ovi creates a lot of rebounds. The usually go in, the goalie gobbles it up because the shot was so hard, or (and this seems to be what happens the most) the puck goes wrapping around the boards all the way into the neutral zone.
But if you had Holmstrom crashing that crease, I’d bet a good many more go in. He’d have more chances at garbage goals with Ovie than with Zetts/Dats, I think.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
What Ovie needs is a fast brave soul who can keep up with him and get in front of the goalie before he shoots and isnt scared of a 100mph slap shot coming right at him.
Is there such a player?
I’ll probably get jumped for saying this, but what about Bourque?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
i don’t know how he feels about getting blasted by Ovie….
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
that'll last once
he’d get killed by Ovechkin in the celebration
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 16, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
What Ovie needs is a fast brave soul who can keep up with him and get in front of the goalie before he shoots and isnt scared of a 100mph slap shot coming right at him.
Is there such a player?
Chris Clark.
…huh?
Signed,
Chris
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 16, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Why does 21 get no consideration here? Isnt he a younger, better, Chris Clark?
by Direction 87 on Jun 16, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, Fedorov and Kozlov are gone, there is some PP time there for Fehr to get. Over 330 minutes played this past season. Who else would take those minutes?
Laich (good) and Flash (bad) would get bumps first. And you could see a two-D set more often than the 4-F units that we saw so much of. But Fehr should see a bump in his PP time when he returns.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I’m thinking the first powerplay unit is going to be Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin, Green and either Fleischmann or Laich. Even if Fehr gets powerplay time it won’t be that much per game and it won’t be with the best teammates.
If Feds is here, he’ll take that 5th spot, no question.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Fehr always seemed to be able to get the puck to net either shooting or passing, his line mates, however, where never there to capitalize.
Well, the problem is he shouldn’t be passing or really even shooting on the rush, because when he was getting those pucks to the net, they were usually on 40-foot wristers that resulted from him carrying the puck. He needs to let someone else carry the mail and just go to the net with reckless abandon, and to that extent, you’d think he’d be a great fit on the top line RW.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Is there anyone else on the team you’d have carry the puck outside of Ovechkin? Semin will dangle and probably pass, so Fehr probably isn’t a good fit with him, and anyone else is what’s he’s been playing with all along.
Maybe Green just needs to carry and have Fehr crash.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Backstrom should be carrying the puck every time. I don’t really want AO carrying the puck even if he still manages to pull off the “cut across the middle shoot through the D skates” move so frequently. Backstrom is our most poised puck carrier and our best passer. Let him bring the puck in and find an open AO busting through a seam or find the other W on the line.
I love Steckel, but he aint no Backstrom or Fedorov.
Fehr was by far the most talented 3rd liner playing all year. He does need a creative pivot to reach his potential.
Crazy thought – Aucoin?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
No. I like him, but he’s really not a suitable NHL center above the 3rd or 4th line, and neither of those lines are expected to focus a whole lot on offense, which puts him and Fehr at a disadvantage if paired together.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
We currently do not have a 2nd line C.
Laich belongs on a wing. Aucoin is 3rd liner at best, and Steckel isn’t creative enough.
Everyone says that, but won’t say why they think that. Has he ever been given a shot? Support that notion, please.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Aucoin doesn’t bring much other than offense: he’s not that physical, he’s not supposed to be a great defender and he doesn’t win faceoffs. The issue is whether he bring enough just by virtue of his offense to justify a spot on team and his NHL track record suggests he won’t.
Keith Aucoin is 30-years-old and has played 65 NHL games. There are plenty of reasons for that, including his inability to win draws and play defense.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And DMG actually answered my question.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Oh, the horrors of simultaneous posting.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I know, right? Thanks for trying, though his answer gives me the detail I wanted.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Yeah, his answer was much more detailed than mine.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
No, no. This is just fine, this is pretty much how we treat him in games, too. He’s here, and we’re aware, but he’s not really bothering us, so we move on.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So, who do you think they’ll be next year? I’m actually guessing Alzner’s going to be one of them.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I guess we’ll see when training camp rolls around and we know who makes the team next year.
The only thing I’m sure of for the fall is that training camp is going to be very, very interesting.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Semin scored more points per minute played than Ovie, Crosby and Malkin.
Yes, the off-season is going as exciting as ever. My fanny will be parked inside Kettler for most of it.
It’s looking as if I will have the week of development camp off, so I expect to spend some time with my fanny parked in Kettler as well. I have to admit, I like watching the kids as much as I like watching the grownups.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Here’s an idea: Read the post. It was not written by JP, it was written by DMG.
And look: If you don’t like the post or if it doesn’t make the points you want it to make, stop your moaning, dig up your own stats and post them in these here comments. That’s what they’re for. If you don’t like it, go back to the Post’s blog and comment there.
Hey now – he was simply making the point that there aren’t stats to back up people’s irrational hatred of Schultz. And “Japers” refers to the lot of us, not just me.
Really, chill.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
That said, a statement like “Anyone who rates Schultz lower than they rated Poti has no right to have their opinions expressed and taken seriously in this or any other hockey forum.” is a bit much.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Its sarcasm JP… I know it doesn’t translate well in this forum but I exaggerate sarcastically to get my point across.
I’m not sure exactly why Tyler has it out for me, but he does… Its actually pretty comical.
Because for the last 48 hours I’ve had to read you bring lots of volume, all backed with very little data or informed opinion. Furthermore, if you’re going to rip my friends, at least do it with some integrity: Bring some stats or other relevant data, not just bluster.
I understand, but we generally tend to stick to what does translate in this forum. We’re a mellow lot.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Did I not provide stats on Poti yesterday? Did not compare Schultz and Poti yesterday? I could’ve sworn I did.
Not in direct response to this comment, but I can say that whichever of you drops it first will bask in the adoration of those of us who actually want to talk substance today (i.e. all of us).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Nah, it’s just off-season.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Perhaps, but that reason isn’t a valid excuse, and it won’t continue this way.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Fair enough. Lord knows it’s silly enough, but I’ve come to the conclusion that human beings are silly.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
There’s enough silliness on the Internet that this site can continue to be a safe haven away from it.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
[Note: I had to delete the image that was here b/c it was messing up the formatting on the page]
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
The other thing here is that we rate players relative to his potential and your expectations for the season. So if you thought Tom Poti was the worst defenseman on earth heading into this season, he might have surprised you with a 5-worthy performance, while if you’d thought Schultz was robbed for last year’s Norris, you might have been disappointed enough to give him a 4 this time around. It’s not simply “who was better.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 16, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No Schultz pix yet?
Schultz and Boudreau react to the replay of “The Fall”
I agree if you go into a season pre-hating on a player with your expectations you kinda screw yourself into not being able to vote low. In fact, you may find you’re forced to vote high. Just maybe something to think about for next season.
by Icebat on Jun 16, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Actually, I did mark Schultz lower than Poti, at 6 vs. a 7. To be honest, that grade is probably made more on just gut feeling than backed by any reasoning.
That said, I don’t get that feeling of confidence when Schultz is on the ice. Not that I feel unsettled either, for the most part this year I just didn’t notice when Schultz was on the ice, and that is good.
I also don’t think his skating is that horrible. It looks awkward, and he isn’t gonna win a speed contest, but when he actually turns and skates, those long strides aren’t that slow.
However, puck mover he isn’t. He is the classic case of why the Caps need to change how they perform a breakout. When Poti or Green has the puck, they can get away with turning their back to the puck and pressing forward on the attack. With any of our other 4 D on the ice, notably Schultz and Jurcina, they can’t leave the D to deal with the forecheck on their own, it is just outside their ability. They need help to make a good breakout and in those instances a more controlled shift to offensive hockey.
by HateOffSeason on Jun 16, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
jschon, am i misreading this post on tarik’s blog from may 15th? weren’t you advocating to get rid of schultz just a month ago?
Just my 2 cents on free agency…
UFA’s
Kozlov
Brashear
Fedorov
Johnson
RFA’s
Fehr
Gordon
Morrisonn
Jurcina
Schultz
Say goodbye to
Kozlov -2.5M
Brashear -1.2M
Morrisonn -1.975M
Schultz -.650M
Buyout contracts
Theodore -2.25M
Nylander -4.08M
UFA resigning
Fedorov – $2.5M MAX – 2nd/3rd line C 15ATOI
RFA resigning
Gordon – $1.0M 2yr PK, 4th line C
Fehr – $1.0M 2yr 2nd line RW 6th on team in productivity per minute played
Jurcina – $1.5M 4yr – breakout year
Johnson – $.825M 1yr – 15 to 20 starts in net as Varlamov backup
Money out?
RW Kozlov -$2.5
LW Brashear -$1.2
D Morrisonn -$1.975
D Schultz -$.650
G Theodore -$2.25
C Nylander -$4.08
C Fedorov -$2.5M
New money in?
C Gordon $.275M
RW Fehr $.265M
D Jurcina $.588M
G Johnson $.000M
Net money saved
$14.027M
Needs
D – 1 Tough S@H Defensemen, block shots, enforcer, hits
RW – 1st or 2nd line, North American, big, space eater in front of the net
C – 2nd line, fast and with great vision to center Semin and Flash
Available
D Jay Bouwmeester – Puckmover, not a S@H guy, Green-like but a little more disciplined – $6.5M/4 (best guess on his market value)
D Mike Komisarek – S@H defensemen, big, block shots and hits, enforcer type.
$4.0/4
D Johnny Oduya – Combo defensmen, solid if not spectacular
$2.5/4
D Paul Mara – Not exactly Komo, but definitely S@H D
$2.5M/3
D Matt Smaby – Big kid, young, enforcer type, hits
$1.5M/3
D Mattius Ohlund – Veteran, solid combo type
$3.5M/2
RW Maxim Afinogenov – Might like playing with fellow comrades here or in KHL
$3.5M/3
RW Todd Bertuzzi – still has some game, big and mean, would look pretty good on Ovie line
$2.5M/2
RW Marian Hossa – that would be sick if we got him
$8M/4
RW Mikael Samuelsson – much cheaper veteran Detroit player. Big and Swedish.
$1.8M/2
RW Mike Knuble – You and I know him.
$2.0M/1
RW Scottie Upshall – Phoenix may let him go
$2.0/2
RW Ryan Clowe – Really, really good young big player, would look nice next to Ovie and Backstrom
$3.0M/4
C Mike Cammalleri – 1st or 2nd line, big offensive player, can play wing.
$5.0M/4
C Jiri Hudler – this guy gets points period.
$2.0M/4
C Chris Higgins – talented, Montreal is needing an overhaul
$2.5M/4
C Tomas Plakanec – see above
$2.5M/4
C Saku Koivu – He would be great centering Semin
$5.0M/2
Just some food for thought…
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 16, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Dang.
And with that, Natty is named Official Japers’ Rink Archivist.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
:) it was a pretty memorable comment. and a stark contrast to “the Fehr/Schultz fan club” and, paraphrased, “he’s got awesome stats and he’ll improve on his skates and i love to defend him.”
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 16, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
They’re not going to buyout Nyls or Theo either.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Cough… Yes, I was temporarily not thinking clearly at the time of this post.
I mean who would want Bertuzzi?
Can you pull up the posts that have me preaching that the Sky isn’t Falling? or the ones preaching to people that Green needed to be resigned at $5M per year and that Redden and Michel-Liles are suitable replacements?
Just sayin…
I had absolutely no idea what to expect from Schultz coming into this year, so I have to abstain. I’ll still watch the discussion, though, as it’s proving to be entertaining already.
You know, we fratch and bitch at each other a whole lot less during the regular season. I guess it’s because we bitch at and about the players instead, and everyone needs a target. :)
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
And as this site gets bigger and new people join the community (which we absolutley embrace), there’s an adjustment period to the way we do things around here. I mean, taking someone whose only exposure to discussing Caps hockey was Capitals Insider’s comments and dropping him in here is like taking a gorilla to centre court at Wimbledon.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 16, 2009 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Have to admit, I observed here for about 2 months before I started posting.
Whats funny is I would start with, gee, these posts at Japers’ are interesting, but still look at stuff on CI and the team’s forum. Now, I see the work and effort that goes into making informed posts here, and I just can’t stand the team forum or looking at posts on CI.
Guess I’m a hockey snob now.
by HateOffSeason on Jun 16, 2009 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Nah. As I put it once on CI, I go to CI when I want unicorns and rainbows (or when I want to read troll nonsense, now). When I want realism and substance, I come here. I actually learn here, more every day, and that’s perhaps the best part of it.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Jun 16, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I actually learn here, more every day, and that’s perhaps the best part of it.
Japers’ Rink: Educators preparing people for the rest of their (hockey) lives.
by David Getz on Jun 16, 2009 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, it encourages critical thinking and actual analysis, unlike a lot of places that are subject to group-think. Critical thinking and thinking for oneself are dying arts, and that’s a long, involved and very political rant that I’m not going to go into here. Disagreeing with JP is often dicey waters, but if I’m going to do it, I’d better research the hell out of it before I do, and that in itself is usually educational.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Hey, I disagree with JP all the time, especially when it comes to defending AO’s path to the captaincy :-).
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Which brings up an interesting question: how much did the fact that Chris Clark has spent most of the last two seasons injured affect playoff performance?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Affect everyone’s playoff performance, or his own?
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone’s. Leadership question.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I don’t buy it. There should’ve been enough leaders in the room, and Clark isn’t a screamer anyway. Put another way, if there was a leadership void in the room, it wasn’t one that Clark alone could fill.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 16, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not a whole lot, I’d wager. Both years, they had a vocal Ovie on and off the ice, and they had Feds’ calming influence, as well. And that’s not to mention the fact that Clark was there with the team the whole time.
Then you have arguments for Laich’s leadership qualities, etc. There was plenty of leadership.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
His or the team’s? “A lot” on the former, “not much” on the latter.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And to think, everyone’s here on a full scholarship.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I can get through about three comments on CI before I start gagging.
I learn so much from reading here.
Capitals Idiocracy
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 16, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the funny thing is, I started going there more often at the start of 07-08 because I couldn’t handle the crazies on the Caps message boards.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 16, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn’t him, JP. I’ve noticed it everywhere in CapsNation, with everybody, and I don’t think it’s just on the Caps blogs. I’m sorry if that got taken amiss – it’s a general observation. The same thing seems to happen during long breaks or when the team is doing really well – commenters start sniping at each other over nothing. I’ve seen it all year long.
It amuses me more than annoys me.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I agree. I think it happens with all message boards for all sports when the off-season arrives, your team didn’t over-achieve, and one of your biggest rivals just won the championship. CapsNation is actually pretty tame compared to some college football boards I’ve frequented over the past 12 years. It’s just part of this “ennernet” phenomenon.
You haven’t seen anything until you’ve spent time on (forgive me for this) gymnastics boards. They’re still fighting over who should have won the 1992 Olympics. They are, like Fehr said of Wilkes-Barre/Scranton fans, “freaking psycho.”
I was thinking something more along the lines of being on a ‘Bama football board when the Vols steal a hometown recruit from Birmingham or being on the Dawgs message boards when Florida beats them in TWLOCP. That’s just purevenom coming out. That said, I can certainly respect the anger surounding gymnastics, even if there are only 5 people arguing about it. Sport is sport. ;)
. . . is like taking a gorilla to centre court at Wimbledon
You’re right, by golly. (I can hear the unsettling sound of shattering champagne flutes all the way out in Chevy Chase.) Caution: Keep your head tucked into your collar until the Poti/Schultz winds blow over.
That said and taking my life in my hands, I gave him a 5. I expected to see more improvement. But a solid showing nonetheless. (Did I pass Tyler’s IQ test? I sooooo hope so. :) )
Where does Schultz ranked in the Capitals’ defensive heirarchy going into next season? It depends on how Carlson shows during camp and if we get a Honkin’ Massively Overpriced FA Defenseman (cue the Bouwmeester Jingle here) over the summer (also cue the accompanying Nyls to Siberia song as well).
Has he solidified a top four role for himself or will Jurcina, Alzner, and possibly even Pothier make it possible that Schultz finds his way to the third pairing? All things are possible with what we have to work with here. And the scenario you paint is very much a possibility. There are (well, almost) a infinite number of possible combinations.
1- Green/Poti
2- Alzner/Pothier
3- Schultz(Carlson)/Erskine
Leftovers: Jurcina, Morrisonn
That said and taking my life in my hands, I gave him a 5. I expected to see more improvement. But a solid showing nonetheless. (Did I pass Tyler’s IQ test? I sooooo hope so. :) )
I gave him a 5 as well. He did what I expected defensively and was a little disappointing offensively = low end of expectations = 5.
Like 98-99% of the D who come into the pro game, John Carlson needs (and will be receiving) a year in the AHL.
Yeah, I think people need to temper their expectations for Carlson. Lots of potential there, but he needs time and opportunity to grow into it.
by Moonage Daydream on Jun 16, 2009 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s kind of fun reading the old HF articles on Schultz, particularly this one, emphasis mine:
Yet because Schultz has the reputation of getting too involved offensively, oftentimes leading to positional breakdowns and missing defensive assignments, it is likely he is being trained to be sound defensively first, therefore not pitching in offensively to his potential.
Huh?
I was looking at the stats for the 05-06 Bears this morning…I never woulda guessed that Schultz woulda put up 5 points in 7 playoff games…
I never woulda guessed that Schultz woulda put up 5 points in 7 playoff games…
You cannot stop him, you can only hope to contain him.
by Bald Pollack on Jun 16, 2009 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions
And even then…. You ever hear of Chernobyl? The english translation is “Schultz.”
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
A 6 from me
The high end of what I expected.
I expect it’s all be said in the 43 comments that already existed when I voted. Taking a regular shift in the NHL at his age is noteworthy in its own right. Playing effectively during that shift is even more so.
I expected a step forward, and we got one.
In order to get a 10, he’s going to have to score a bit, and deliver more of a physical presence.
He’s good, and I expect him to get better.
As alluded to above
If we were rating based on value-per-salary-dollar, this guy would clearly get a 10. I would further add that if we were rating based on potential future value to the team, he’d be getting a 9 or a 10 from me. You just don’t see kids his age playing effective minutes on the blueline very often.
by fat_daddyo on Jun 16, 2009 9:08 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The underappreciated art of the poke check. Effective and maddening to play against, but doesn’t get the chicks.
by gnuf on Jun 16, 2009 9:08 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I disagree. If you do the poke check well, the chicks will come.
by Bald Pollack on Jun 16, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Hells no. You only get one good poke and the goods are gone, so why bother?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
But you still only get one poke, and then you have to clean up the mess.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
And you know, Jeff Schultz is about the quietest guy on the team – how did we end up talking innuendo on this thread?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
No dear. It’s okay, you’ll find out when you’re older. :D
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Innuendo… isn’t that what Sidney Crosby does to Boris Valabik?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 16, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha. Rec’d
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 16, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I gave him a 7 because I felt he showed improvement over last season (season before last now). I liked the fact that he seemed to be atleast attempting to use his body more often. I did not, however, mark him down for his playoff performance…had I done that he would have dropped atleast one point.
In order for him to score again in this range next year, I want to see a bit more offensive production and for him to continue to show improvement using his body.
I gave him a 5.5 (voted a 5 at home and a 6 from work). He started the season playing really well, but faded the last couple of months of the season, which is understandable considering his age and Dmen are of a different breed.
I wont lie, the Dubinsky goal leaves me with bad memories (thanks for posting the video, if it wasn’t up I probably would have voted a straight 6)
IMO Schultz is about 2 seasons away from being who everyone expects him to be. He was better then he was last year; next year he’ll be better then this past one. 2 years from now…
5
I gave him a 5. There is not much to say on that which has not already been said.
In order for him to receive a 10 next year he will have to work on his skating. He was getting caught flat-footed behind the net too many times. If he works on his skating and is a strong presence on the power play killing, get better at handling the puck in pressure situations, I think that he could get a 10.
5
I gave him a 5 mainly because I didn’t feel he progressed much (if at all) from last season with regards to his skating ability. It would be nice if he was more physical or scored a bit more, but I didn’t really have any expectations for improvement in those areas; I DID, however, expect him to work hard to improve his skating in the offseason, and I didn’t really see any improvement there.
Bottom line, he got the low end of “what I expected” from me, but I also had reasonably high expectations of him being a solid 2/3 defenseman. Unfortunately, with his (lack of) skating ability he is far too prone to getting beat 1-on-1 or on the rush, which leaves me unconvinced about his ability to handle top-pairing minutes (especially if that role involves him having to be able to cover for Mike Green’s rushes up ice).
We discuss it in other threads where that topic is pertinent.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
It’s a CI thing, I know. i love it when they post a new blog entry and people just continue the last thread and completely ignore the topic of the new post
but what’s great is that it’s a party foul that can be easily avoided by creating your own fanpost on the topic. plus you get the satisfaction of seeing a ton of comments all in response to your argument.
by Natty Bumppo on Jun 16, 2009 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Or you get it deleted if it’s garbage and no one has to see it. Everyone wins!
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jun 16, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’ll leave blogging to the professionals. I’m more of a lemming with an attitude than the Pied Piper with patience.
Japers’ Rink: Lemming welcome; attitudes checked at the door
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Keep it up and you’re welcome to stay.
They told you about the initiation rituals, right?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
You mean, like the one about how anyone who joined the Rink after the season ended has to split the tab at Bailey’s for the Awards viewing this Thursday?
by Cluster on Jun 16, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nyls, assuming he’s still here. If not him, then Bourque, IMO.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
That sounds to me like the kind of thing that goes in a FanPost, JSchon. I was just noodling that one myself.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Sweet! Another “what are we going to do this offseason?!” FanPost!
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Hey, quit picking on me. You’re the one who tells people to use FanPosts for stuff like that. Sheesh. :P
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Can you make a FanPost about how cranky JP is today?
by Scott in Shaw on Jun 16, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m actually in a fab mood today, as you’ll see with my noon post.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Wait, so you’re in a good mood because you get to celebrate the Pens’ victory today?
by Scott in Shaw on Jun 16, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Not just today, but everyday! W00t!
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Most of any perceived crankiness today stems from having to do some babysitting rather than talking hockey.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Set reasonable expectations, people
I know one goal sucks and teh Caps don’t get enough goals from their blueliners – but c’mon. Schultz is making a HELL of a lot less than some d-men who are getting paid a shi-load more AND/OR people are wetting their pants over should the Caps acquire them:
Mike Komisarek – 2G, 0 +/-
Luke Schenn 2G, -13
Jay Mckee 1G, 7A, +11
Andres Lilja 2G, 11A, +13
BTW, it’s okay to say shitload, I believe. I tried to read that as “shy load” and got completely confused for about half a second while the curse-processor worked in my head.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
What’s the metric equivalent?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 16, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I have to say, I expected something special from this Wrap, but once again have been blown away by the threads that have evolved. Nice job so far.
Rockin' the Red in Section 412
You’re kidding me, right? :) For Schultz, who generates more discussion than anyone except maybe Fehr?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I guess to be fehr about 25% of the comments in here are about him.
by zephyr on Jun 16, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Semin should be a good one. Theo, too.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I don’t know if I have the effort for Theo. The two I was looking forward to the most were the Semin and Laich wraps.
JP, can we be sure to get a BB wrap, too? That’d generate buzz, too.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
The Burden of Being Big
Big, young defensemen (and by big I mean 6’4 or taller) need time to grow into their bodies. If Schultz were say 6’1", he probably wouldn’t have half the criticism he gets now.
Case in point, compare Jeff’s stats through through his first 140+ games against three other big men named Chara, Pronger and Boumeester and see if you can guess which numbers belong to which player:
GP**G**A**P**+/-** PPG
143 7 30 37 -44 .25
124 10 34 44 -15 .35
144 6 23 29 +25 .20
149 4 16 20 +20 .13
As you can see, those three guys who most everyone would agree are among the top defenseman in the league today didn’t exactly burst out of the gate in their first couple of years. But after they had a chance to adjust to the league, improve their skating ability and, most importantly, grow into their bodies they really saw their careers blossom. The one thing you don’t want to do is give up on Schultz too early and have him become Chara in 3-4 years. Oh, and by the way, those stats belong in order to: Boumeester, Pronger, Schultz and Chara.
by b.orr4 on Jun 16, 2009 10:39 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I get what you’re saying but isn’t it the exception to the rule that a big lumbering guy who isn’t stellar becomes a top 10 dman in the league? I think most of us here know that other than goaltenders, defense men take the longest time to mature.
I’m just not seeing a lot of correlation on this one unless this was just a, “keep the faith guys!” post.
Truth…he could be the next Pronger, or he could be the next Hal Gill. Then again, I’d probably take either, since both have cup rings!
by Kerry Fraser's Hairspray on Jun 16, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, I guess it depend on how you view Jeff’s performance so far. I’m in the group that considers his play to be damn good in a lot of areas given his age and size. If you consider him to be just a “big lumbering guy” with limited skills, then I agree, the comparisons I offered mean little.
I thought that whole group of guys you listed were guys that were big (big) and had not grown into their bodies\improved skating (lumbering). So that wasn’t really the point I was trying to make.
I’m just saying that I think Chara, Pronger, Boumeester, are the exception to the rule not people to make correlations with.
I’m in the camp where I think he’s been decent and he can be a lot better. I don’t think he will be a Chara, Pronger, or Boumeester though. Especially not a Boumeester.
I’m just saying that I think Chara, Pronger, Boumeester, are the exception to the rule not people to make correlations with.
Depends what the correlation is. If it’s “these guys are big and didn’t light things up right away, Schultz is like that, so Schultz will be all-star calibre”, I think you’re right. If it’s “tall defensemen take a while to hit their stride at the NHL level, for example…” then I think it’s a fair comparison.
I don’t think many people thought Chara was going to become Chara :-) The point I’m trying to make is that big guys take longer to develop and until you know whether Schultz is going to grow into a first or second pairing defenseman or a 5/6, the organization can’t give up on him. Jeff in all likelyhood isn’t going to become Pronger or JaBo, but there were a lot of people in Florida calling Bouwmeester a disappointment after he was a -44 in first 150 games. Jeff just needs time.
I gave him an 8, because my expectations coming into this season were pretty low — I wasn’t that involved in my spectating only noticed his gaffes, which he seems to have trouble covering up because of his lack of foot-speed.
Over the course of this season, my viewing habits have evolved. I no longer fixate on the puck, but try to watch the entire play (to the extent that I can, given the camera angles on TV) and enjoy his positioning and stick-play a lot. He’s also making some smart passes on the transition and while he doesn’t “play his size” in terms of hitting, he does have that huge wingspan and long stick that make playing the puck near him a dicey proposition. Shunting someone to the boards and poking the puck away, then making a solid outlet isn’t flashy and doesn’t get the crowd going (usually), but it’s every bit as effective as making a huge hit to take the puck. Now, you’re not going to wear someone down over the course of a seven game series with a poke checks, but you can frustrate the hell out of forwards and get in their heads, which is just about as good.
Rob Scuderi did a great job this post-season without being a monster hitter and there’s some D-man wearing number 5 in Detroit who plays a positioning/stickwork game that does alright for himself. (Granted, he’s one of the smoothest skaters I’ve ever observed, which is not an accusation we’ll likely ever level at Jeff Schultz.)
by Knee high to a duck on Jun 16, 2009 10:49 AM EDT reply actions
I’ve been watching Scuderi since he was toiling at Wilkes-Barre for the Penguins, and always impressed me as just being smart. Not big, not a big hitter, not flashy, just smart. Very Calle Johanssonesque. I don’t advocate the Caps getting him, since he’s probably going to be the “It” defenseman in free agency and will end up getting paid $750K a year more than he should. Maybe, just maybe…Schultz could turn into a taller version of him. Smart, plays within his limits, dependable, the kind of guy you could put out on the last shift with a one goal lead and not worry too much.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Jun 16, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought about Calle Jo when I was typing my comments. Hopefully, if Schultz keeps progressing nicely, his career will run a similar trajectory to CJ’s: Calle obviously had better offensive skills than Schultz will ever have but, like Schultz, played in the shadow of Stevens, Langway, Hatcher, Gonch, Iafrate. Only 5’11" tall , he was drafted 14th overall, higher than Schultzy at 27 .
(Talk about yesteryear vs today: in the ‘92-93 season, the Caps had 3 DEFENSEMEN with over 20 goals: Hatcher, Iafrate, and Sylvain Cote).
Schultz is a very good, if not great, hockey player – can’t we just accept it?
by S h a g g y on Jun 16, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
back when the pens were still in 10th place, i was hoping they would be sellers at the deadline and we’d be able to get Scuderi from them. If only…
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Jun 16, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Couldn’t stand the guy last year. Still don’t like him but he’s growing on me. But I am able to recognize his contribution to the team. Gave him a 7. Same as what I gave Poti.
As for my expectations for next year, some smarter decision making when pinching and smoother line change decisions will go a long way to changing my tune about him. Though, that could be said about the whole team, and maybe with a new DCoach, this will be handled and make me love every inch he brings to the ice.
Cause, afterall, this is a game of inches.
We should bring in Ray Bourque to be our D coach, what with our excellent family connections.
by DrinkingPartner on Jun 16, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
A 7...
I expected Sarge to be a 3rd pair D-man and he emerged as being a capable 2nd pair defender. He took some big strides in the current season and is learning how to play a more physical game. His size is great, his effort is great. After learning he was playing with a broken rib, I won’t question his character ever (not that I did before.) Having had broken ribs (I played catcher in little league and rec league softball, it comes with the job) I know that it hurts just to breathe when you have one.. playing NHL hockey with one… wow.
He is a bit tentative, but I would say that this is mostly due to one of his biggest strengths, which is playing within his weaknesses. Unfortunately, what is emerging as his biggest weakness is one that cannot be readily addressed, which is speed. He is the 2nd slowest skater on the team (Jurcina is slower), and he knows it. Awkwardness in skating can be addressed, but he’s not gonna get any faster. The reason he is tentative is that he knows he doesn’t have the speed to make up for a mistake when taking a chance.
I would like to see him work on his shot. He’s a big guy, he should be able to use his size to get the puck moving harder and faster. I think he is capable of doing that.
What would it take to get to a 10: Maybe get the goal total up to 4 or 5, play a little more physical. Admittedly not taking a lot of penalties is good, but in a game where the Caps are up by a few goals in the 3rd, maybe take an aggressive penalty in the corner, add a bit of hesitation in the opponent so that they know if they go in the corner with Sarge, he’s going to go in aggressive. Jamie Heward used to do that, ditto for Reekie, and there’d be a slight hesitation when someone would go into the corner on them. You know it wasn’t Reekie’s speed that helped him in being a plus almost every year of his career, even when he played on some really bad teams in Tampa (and in 1998-99 here in DC).
Let's go Caps!
I gave him a 6
ok now that I have read through this madness in detail, there isn’t much I can add to the discussion that hasn’t already been said.
Schultz is indeed a victim of his size/awkwardness in the sense that when he gets beaten, he looks more awkward than the average defenseman. The average joe fan sees that awkwardness and concludes “Jeff Schultz Sucks” then runs to every message board to type in those exact words, usually with the caps lock on and a lot of exclamation marks.
As has been noted, when Schultz is effective, its due to positioning, stick work and solid outlet passes. Not highlight reel stuff here, so it often goes unnoticed.
The positive stat lines DMG noted above are all reasons why GMGM remains high on schultz, and bode well for the Caps since Schultz is not the kind of flashy player that is going to attract interest from other teams, making the cost of retaining his righs relatively cheap.
I gave Schultz a 6 because I expected improvement from last season, which we got (drop off in goals aside) but I still think he has a ways to go before reaching his potential.
While you don’t need to be a heavy hitter to be effective, I would like to see him be more willing to take the body from time to time, make quicker decisions and try to put more “half slappers” on net.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
Rink Newbie
Japers’ Rink follower since about April, new poster…what’s up guys.
I gave him a 6 for the regular season (choosing to ignore the offseason when he seemed to stop performing, I guess a broken rib will do that to you). I have really high hopes for the guy; I can see him developing into one of those “silent but steady” d-men who often get overlooked (or I guess not, as evident by the Schultzy fan club developing on this blog?) but are crucial to a team’s success. I would like to see him use his size more to throw some of the opponents’ offense around, but I say that about practically every single one of our d-men at the moment.
I’m FROM northern VA…moved out here last summer. Perfect timing moving out here just when I could actually convince people to go to games at the VC with me. It’s ok though, I still get to listen to Joe & Co. on Comcast via Center Ice, although I can’t get used to having hockey on at 4 pm.
by SeattleCapsFan on Jun 17, 2009 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Welcome, SCF – glad to have you aboard.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Schultz was our 2nd best defenseman in the Plus/Minus department, after only Green. It seems that the guy gets a disproportionate share of criticism from Caps fan. His mistakes have been doozies. Given his age and the fact that defensemen tend to mature late, it’s way too soon to give up on him. Remember Larry Murphy who fans used to say “whoop whoop” about. He was traded and became a Hall of Famer.
Other players I’ve felt compelled to defend on the boards include Fehr and Semin, the latter who will be the next Rink Wrap for Japers.
Don’t use +\- to defend Shultz, it is about worthless.
No, it’s not.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Babies and Bathwater
Thanks to DMG for a balanced view of Sarge, which seems to be a difficult thing to pull off. “Casual” Caps fans seem to hate him because he doesn’t hit. “Cerebral” Caps fans fancy him because he puts up some gaudy/decent behindthenet stats given his salary cap hit. The truth, in my opinion, is somewhere in the middle, which is, ironically, exactly where I rated his season.
Yes, Schultz won’t drop his purse and hit someone, and he likely won’t even hit someone with his purse. On the other hand, he’s usually too busy poking the puck away with his condor-like wingspan to bother to hit anyone. He shows the ability to shut down opposing teams one shift at a time, and he does so at very little cost.
However, his lack of skating ability and offensive acumen limits him greatly as a player. Yes, he’s young and may grow out of that, but with each passing year, it becomes more likely that WYSIWYG when it comes to Sarge. Put simply, although he may have received # 2 pairing minutes this year, he’s likely a #5/6 defensemen when it’s all said and done. You might wonder why I say that when his stats show that he’s at least a passable second-pairing defenseman. Put simply, I think the coaches limited his exposure to smaller/faster forwards and maximized his effectiveness by putting him out on the PK, and by pairing him with guys like Green who could really skate. I also think that his clumsy skating will prevent him from skating 30 mins a night. (For an example, look at Chara – it took him a long time to grow into his body skating-wise, and only then did he start playing over 25 minutes/night. To this day, he’s more effective closer to 25 as opposed to the 30 minutes that guys like Lidstrom, Pronger and Niedermayer can handle. Skating technique matters.) In the playoffs, a quick team like the Rangers rapidly exposed his lack of skating ability.
Unless he improves his skating, puckhandling and passing, he’ll likely devolve into a PK specialist (and we’ve already got one of those in John Erskine). Valuable to some degree, but probably not what McPhee and Co. were hoping to get with a first-round pick in a pretty deep draft. Ultimately, for a guy his age, his expectations are tied to his draft position. If I’m a GM or player-personnel director and I draft a 6’6" defenseman out of the WHL in the first round, I expect to get at least a little nastiness, if not a full-blown mean streak. Ultimately, that’s what the WHL is known for. Still, Schultz doesn’t deserve the unqualified hatred that many “casual” Caps fans direct at him. So he doesn’t hit… Who cares? Neither does Nick Lidstrom…
Ultimately, I think Sarge (and the team) would have been better served by having him play for the Bears this year. What he needs is seasoning, conditioning and confidence (and 100 power-skating lessons). I think he would have been able to play 25-30 minutes a night down in Hershey, where he could have been a dominant player, rather than a guy who occasionally looks like a clumsy traffic cone. He could have worked on his offense, getting occasional PP time, and maybe he could have developed a mean streak in an environment where taking penalties has fewer consequences. In essence, he could have been what Staffan Kronwall was when he was sent down. The next year, he would hopefully come up brimming with confidence.
As it is, Schultz is going to struggle for playing time as players like Alzner and Carlson start to join the Caps. This will be a very interesting off-season and training camp for Sarge. During the offseason, his future will depend in large part on what the Caps decide to do with Jurcina and Morrissonn. During training camp, he’s going to have to show the coaching staff that his shut-down abilities are worth sending Carlson, Alzner or Kronwall (all of whom are better skaters and have more offensive capability) down to Hershey.
he was already over the games threshold...
that was part of our roster congestion. he was over 100 games so he’d have had to clear waivers to get to hershey, which wouldn’t have happened at said low cap hit.
hockey reference says he was at 110 coming into last season. what exactly does that say about our d corps two years ago…
After watching our “Hitmen” Sarge and Karl, maybe the WHL needs a new rep: cerebral, positionally sound, but tentative d-men. I love hitting, but really how important are uber-physical d-men really these days? Even pansies that are 6-6 215 are still rare as hell. Since there is a reasonable chance that Sarge evolves from a respectable stay at home 2nd pair defenseman into a great stay at home 2nd pair defenseman, I just don’t see how his selection at the end of the first round can be viewed as a bust.
Even without the player movement restrictions Schultz to the AHL doesn’t really make sense to me. He’s graduate from that level so I don’t see it doing much for him personally and there’s no way the Capitals field seven guys better than him next season, so it doesn’t help the team.
I still think he would have been better served by at least one more year at the AHL level. Preferably, that would have come two years ago, but yeah, I know it’s impossible. I think if our D-corps hadn’t been so weak two years ago, he probably would have been down in Hershey the whole year. Schultz just looks like he lacks confidence on the ice. He’s hesitant at times, and he doesn’t have the quickness or speed to compensate for when he hesitates, so you get plays like the one where Dubinsky scored. I think another year at the AHL would have given Sarge the confidence he needs to consistently make the right play without second-guessing himself.
But, again, that’s in a perfect world.
I agree with you with regards to his penchant for hesitating but he also played quite well when he was recalled. I think he was NHL ready at that point and I don’t think he’d progress much in the AHL.
I also think that Dubinsky play had as much to do with Schultz’s injury as anything else.
On Hitting
Schultz is exactly what you get most of the time from a 23 year old defenseman. I don’t think its reasonable to expect him to be that good at this point of his career. I expected him to be exactly what he was. That said, and though I agree with a lot of what D’ohboy said above, this is the NHL, and in the NHL you have to hit. Lidstrom might not hit much, but apparently he doesn’t have to. There are guys waiting to come up, and they are going to play the body, and do other things as well as Schultz. Sarge has experience right now, and that bodes well for him. That’s why he’s been playing the past few years, right? SO that GM could get his picks experienced and ready to go in year 5? But if a guy like Alzner, or even Carlson, can do as well as shultz, and offer more physically, I expect management will go in that direction.
Schultz’s stats look great, but the kid was on the ice with some pretty stellar offensive talent, and has very few points to prove it. Should he be tossed? No. His numbers actually earn him more of a chance. But if he wants a 10, he needs to skate better, pass better, and lay a shoulder into someone, ending the threat quickly, rather than poke at it and give his opponent a chance to get creative. I want my defenseman to keep up with Kovalchuk and make him pay a price for crossing the blueline, not poke relentlessly.
I gave him a 5. I’m not counting the playoff plunge through the ice. Like Jeff, I’m trying to forget it.
23, 24, 28, 23…
Those are number of recorded hits by the last 4 Norris Trophy winners. If you want to go 3 more years back, the winner was Lidstrom, who owns the first 3 numbers on this list,(the 4th belongs to Niedermayer). One more quick stat, Chris Pronger, who won in 1999/00, who you might think would rack up a bunch of hits, had fewer hits that Mike Green 2007/08.
My point is that there’s more than 1 way to skin a cat. A player is not more effective or less effective just because of your “Hits” total. If you only hit players as your means of dislodging opponent from puck, then who has possession of the puck? No one, its up for grabs, and if your the type of defensemen like Schultz, you’re usually the last line of defense.
There are all types of effective defensemen, some hit, some don’t, some poke check, some don’t. Saying that you have to hit in order to be effective is an insult to all the Lidstroms, Niedermayers, Leetchs, Bourques and yes, Alzners, who you wont find on the top of any ledger in the hits category.
by JSchon on Jun 17, 2009 6:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
While you’re right that there is more than one way to skin a cat, it’s interesting that during Lidstrom’s tenure in Detroit, the Wings have always surrounded him with at least a couple of very physical defensemen, such as Konstantinov, Hatcher, Chelios and Kronwall. Niedermayer is probably more physical than you give him credit for, yet he’s never played a season without either Stevens, Daneyko, Colin White, Pronger, or Beauchemin on his team. (Also, if you think Ray Bourque didn’t hit/wasn’t physical, I suggest you tune in the next time NHL Network puts on a “classic” Bruins game from the late 80s/90s. The guy was a beast and an absolute terror in the corners.)
There is more than one way to play defense, but physicality has a cumulative effect that really makes its presence felt in the postseason. You can just look at this year’s Stanley Cup finals to see this. Detroit, having played two very physical series against two very physical defensive corps, was banged up in the finals. Pittsburgh, having played tough series, but against two teams in the Caps and Canes that are not exactly known for their physical defensemen, looked to be the fresher team, especially compared to last year, when the Pens were coming off of a brutal series with Philly that essentially cost them the use of Malkin in the finals.
So while you’re right that hitting isn’t a sine qua non of great individual defensive play, I’d argue that it is very important at a team level. Extrapolating this further to the Caps’ situation, the issue with Schultz is that he’s never going to be an offensive threat in the mold of Green, Poti, or Pothier. If the team only has six spaces for defensemen, and three are already taken up with offensive players (two of whom are most definitely not physical threats), you’ve got to get the physical presence from the last three spots. (As an aside, I’d personally like to see Green chill out a bit with the hitting until it’s clear that his shoulder is OK.) Jurcina and Erskine definitely bring the hits, and Morrissonn has shown that he’ll do it, but sporadically. Maybe Schultz doesn’t need to hit if we can get it from three other players, but what if (as is highly possible), Alzner replaces either Mo or Juice this offseason? Then we’ll have a defensive corps consisting of Green (coming off of a shoulder injury), Poti and Pothier (neither of whom is very physical), Schultz and Alzner (again, neither of whom is very physical) and Erskine or Juice (both of whom are physical, but have other limitations). Suddenly, you’ve got a defensive corps that doesn’t exactly strike fear into the hearts of opposing forwards, and if you don’t think that is important, I’d wager that you’ve never played full-contact hockey.
Also, as another aside, hits are a highly subjective statistical category, which is why the owners/league had them removed for a couple of years so that players couldn’t use them in contract negotiations. Ultimately, hit counts give you a decent idea of who does/who does not hit, but the exact numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, particularly in the case of guys like Phaneuf, since Calgary’s scorekeeper inflates the bejeezus out of his numbers.
That said, and though I agree with a lot of what D’ohboy said above, this is the NHL, and in the NHL you have to hit. Lidstrom might not hit much, but apparently he doesn’t have to.
Am I missing something or is the gist of this “in the NHL you need to hit, unless you don’t need to”?
Nah, it just seems that Lidstrom does everything right. Its hard to hold another guy like Schultz, or any 23 year old D, up to the standards of Lidstrom. What I mean is, the NHL is a physical league, and unless you’re Nick Lidstrom or very similair, you have to be willing to hit. Its the unwillingness that concerns me.
I guess I disagree. Being a strong physical presence is a plus if everything else is being held constant but I don’t think you have to be a hitter to be effective.
I don’t think you have to be a hitter to be effective either. If you’re effective, its because of whatever you’re doing, right? So if you’re poke checking your way to a Norris, you’ve proven your skill. If all you do is hit, and its effective, great. As for Schultz, his effectiveness is in question (to me). There were many times where he could have stopped a play by being physical (its a contact sport, no?) but opted not to and got beat. In the end, I like blueliners that can be physical. Once upon a time, opposing teams were worried about the Caps D coming to hit them. If your defense doesn’t strike any fear, I’d say (maybe inaccurately, i’ll accept that, its just an opinion), then opposing players will feel more confident, rather than apprehensive (or some other word) when they cross the blue line.
There is little physical price to play when facing the caps defense. I dont think that works in the Caps favor. Watching the playoffs cemented that idea for me. I enjoy the exchange of thoughts though.
Again, I’d say that at the individual level, you’re right. At the macro-team level, you can’t have 6 defensemen who don’t/won’t hit. It wouldn’t work very well. If McPhee can surround Schultz with other guys who hit, it’s not a big deal, but I have to imagine that the Caps’ scouts and McPhee expected Schultz to grow into his frame and develop a bit of a physical aspect to his game. Typically, that’s why you see tall defensemen with marginal skating ability get taken in the first round.
I don’t think you have to be a hitter to be effective either. If you’re effective, its because of whatever you’re doing, right? So if you’re poke checking your way to a Norris, you’ve proven your skill. If all you do is hit, and its effective, great. As for Schultz, his effectiveness is in question (to me). There were many times where he could have stopped a play by being physical (its a contact sport, no?) but opted not to and got beat. In the end, I like blueliners that can be physical. Once upon a time, opposing teams were worried about the Caps D coming to hit them. If your defense doesn’t strike any fear, I’d say (maybe inaccurately, i’ll accept that, its just an opinion), then opposing players will feel more confident, rather than apprehensive (or some other word) when they cross the blue line.
There is little physical price to play when facing the caps defense. I dont think that works in the Caps favor. Watching the playoffs cemented that idea for me. I enjoy the exchange of thoughts though.
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
55 | 27 | 17 | 11 | 65 |
|
Washington
|
55 | 28 | 22 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
57 | 26 | 25 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
55 | 24 | 25 | 6 | 54 |
|
Carolina
|
56 | 20 | 25 | 11 | 51 |
(updated 2.12.2012 at 10:06 PM EST)
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