Short Shifts and Long Runs
by J.P. on May 4, 2009 7:00 AM EDT
77 comments
Detroit assistant coach Paul MacLean is never without his stopwatch, clicking it each time the Wings make a line change. "We use our own time," says [Head Coach Mike] Babcock, eschewing the arena stat sheet. For playoffs, he wants short shifts -- 40 seconds, tops -- making sure stars like LW Henrik Zetterberg stay fresh enough to sustain the tempo his two-way game demands. Quick, smart line changes are so crucial that the Wings devoted an entire practice to them during an unexpected layover in St. Louis last season. Bonus benefit: Quick changes prevent positioning breakdowns that result in odd-man rushes. - ESPN The Magazine
En route to winning the Stanley Cup last year, the Detroit Red Wings didn't have a single forward who averaged as much as 50 seconds per shift during the playoffs, and only a pair of defenseman who were above that mark... by one second. Last year's runners-up had one forward and one blueliner above 50 seconds, both of whom were under the 55-second mark. In fact, of the 48 players who averaged 50 seconds or more per shift in last year's playoffs, 29 - or 60% - of them played seven games or fewer.
Is there a correlation? Sure. Causation? Unclear (cue one of XKCD's greatest). But it's interesting (if not concerning) when you consider that three of the four forwards skating the longest shifts so far this spring are Alex Ovechkin, Alex Semin and Nicklas Backstrom, and that the two Alexes are leading all skaters in average shift length.
Now, it's commendable that the team's best players want to give almost everything they have on every shift (as any given shift could be the difference between winning and losing), and it's certainly hard to argue with the results so far, but consider some data from the Caps' first round series against the Rangers:
- The average length of an even strength shift for both Ovechkin and Backstrom that resulted in a goal was 38 seconds. That's it. (Semin's was 56 seconds, thanks to a monster 1:36 shift that wound up with the lamp lit.)
- Of the 18 individual even strength shifts that AO, Backstrom and Semin skated that ended with the Caps scoring, only three were longer than 54 seconds.
- The average length of one of Alex Semin's shifts that ended in him taking a penalty in the Rangers series? One minute ten seconds.
- AO, Nick and Semin averaged 1:00, 0:48 and 0:51 seconds per shift, respectively, in wins and 1:09, 1:04 and 1:00 in losses.
The length of Ovechkin's average shift is so long, in fact, that it forces opponents to game plan specifically around (or at least be well aware of) it:
“We have two lines on them in any one shift,” Rangers forward Fred Sjostrom said of the line of Ovechkin, Semin and Nicklas Backstrom. “Ovechkin stretches to the far blue line, and obviously if you make a bad change, it could be bad for you.”
Tortorella said that the Rangers’ philosophy was not to try to match lines against Ovechkin’s line. “They do take long shifts, and everybody has to contribute,” Tortorella said.
But while that may sound like a positive - getting away from opposition line-matching - it isn't, necessarily. As E.J. Hradek pointed out after the Game 1 loss:
In their first-round series loss to the Flyers last season, Washington's stars had a tendency to overstay their shifts. In Game 1 against the Rangers, I noticed the same thing. Alex Ovechkin's average shift time was 78 seconds. That's about 30 seconds too long for most players during the playoffs. I know he went very long on each of their power-play chances; that ratchets up his average shift time. Still, I don't know how you can be that good for that long during a playoff game that's being played at a very high tempo.... A.O. is a special player, but 78 seconds per shift is too long; so is Alexander Semin's 68 seconds per shift and Mike Green's 61 seconds. They'll want to shorten that up in Game 2.
Taking a look at Saturday's Game 1 of the second round series with Pittsburgh, Ovechkin took five even strength shifts of 1:15 or longer, none of which resulted in Caps goals and one of which ended when Mark Eaton beat Simeon Varlamov to tie the score at two. Backstrom and Semin did the heavy lifting on the game-winning goal early in the third period, and, at the time, they had been on the ice for 33 seconds combined. On the afternoon, Ovechkin, Backstrom and Semin averaged 1:00, 0:48 and 0:54 per shift, respectively (though those numbers would have been a lot higher with more than 3:01 of power-play time, you'd think).
These are small samples, more anecdotal evidence than anything else, but the point here is two-fold: 1) in general, the longer the shifts, the less likely something good is going to happen at the end of it, and, perhaps as a predictable result thereof, 2) there seems to be a correlation between keeping players fresh (both in the in-game short-term and in the deep-run long-term) and winning in the playoffs. Whether it's the difference in the third period or in overtime of a game in this round or still having gas in his star players' tanks (lord willing) a round or two from now, Bruce Boudreau and his staff might be wise to rein in their thoroughbreds a bit now, especially given how well the third line (charming as it is) has played of late.
A final thought here, and one that brings it back to John Tortorella, who was known to ride his big three forwards back in his days behind the Bolts' bench: when the Tampa Bay Lightning won the Stanley Cup five years ago, Brad Richards, Martin St. Louis and Vinny Lecavalier averaged 48, 45 and 43 seconds per shift, respectively. Let's hope that Gabby can step up and out-coach the Torts of five years ago just like he did the Torts of a week ago.
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Add another concern to the above for this round…a pending back-to-back Games 4 & 5.
by bugula on May 4, 2009 7:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
Related to that point, but unrelated to this post, if I was Boudreau, I’d have told Varly before Game 1 (or now’s a fine time) that he’s sitting one of the back-to-backs no matter what happens in order to give him a rest. That way, if that decision is made and it comes after a sub-par performance, he doesn’t think it’s performance-based.
Of course, I’d reserve the right to change my mind and play him in both if the circumstances demanded it.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on May 4, 2009 7:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right. The key to this plan is that you tell him now that it’s going to happen. That doesn’t mean it actually has to happen. I like it.
by Gould Old Days on May 4, 2009 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m glad you included that Babcock piece.
He’s fanatical about the time, but in such a way that the players are aware of it as much as he is. It reminded me of something Bowman (I think) used to do, but it also reminded me of some of the things the locker room was saying last year after Game 3. Well, just Zetterberg:
“I think last night, yeah, the shifts were a little too long,” Zetterberg said. “And that’s what happens when you want to do a little too much. And it’s easy to stay out a little bit longer. And you get tired.”
We've got a goalie who's playing pretty good right now, while you've got one who can't get onto the ice without falling on his ass.
by Bald Pollack on May 4, 2009 7:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ovie’s long shift times have been a constant gripe of a co-worker and hockey coach – and a Rags fan. Would be nice to have AO take shorter shifts, but does BB care or does he just let Ovie be Ovie?
uhh...uhh...uhh...
by hotdog88gt on May 4, 2009 8:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If BB let Ovi be Ovi his average shift time would be 20 minutes.
by zephyr on May 4, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just letting Ovi be Ovi, imo, is enabling, not coaching. And should Bruce let Semin and Backstrom be Ovi, too?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on May 4, 2009 8:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m Boyd Gordon. I wanna be Ovie too! Skate, skate, skate… la de da… skate, skate skate… oh, I’ve been out for 62 seconds? Oh, ok, maybe I’ll come off….
This is why coaching the star matters.
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of these long shifts are the direct result of Bruce’s playing days. He still thinks back to his days as a star in juniors and the minors and he probably remembers how he hated coming off the ice. I think he identifies with the Caps top line players and, as a result, gives them more freedom to stay on the ice. Eventually, it will come back to hurt them if the team advances deeper into the playoffs, but I just don’t see him pulling in the reins on Ovechkin. That aside, the number that really concerns me is two, as in the the visiting team has won game two in every other series in this round. I just don’t have a good feeling about tonight.
by b.orr4 on May 4, 2009 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And back when he played in the WHL, Mike Babcock liked coming off the ice?
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t follow your line of thought. The point I was making was that Bruce was a superstar at the junior and AHL level and he might identify with his current stars and their desire to stay on the ice because that’s probably the way he felt when he played. I never said it was the right approach. Mike Babcock was nice college player at McGill University but never had a pro career and had to go to England to continue to play because noone wanted him in North America. He’s a great coach but he was a long way from that as a player. I doubt he ever thought his play justified long shifts.
by b.orr4 on May 4, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Along similar lines, there’s a theory out there that Bruce’s fondness for Flash is the result of him seeing a lot of what he was as a player in Flash. It’s all a bit too psychoanalytical for me, but whatev.
Unrelated – do we know for a fact that Bruce was not in Czechoslovakia in early fall, 1983? Just wonderin’.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on May 4, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Or maybe he hung out with Bruce Springsteen and was the impetus for “Glory Days”?
by b.orr4 on May 4, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Bruce a ginger when he had hair? ;)
by Sct112 on May 4, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“We’re not going to Moscow. It’s Czechoslovakia. It’s like going into Wisconsin.”
We've got a goalie who's playing pretty good right now, while you've got one who can't get onto the ice without falling on his ass.
by Bald Pollack on May 4, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"We’re not going to Moscow. It’s Czechoslovakia. It’s like going into Wisconsin."
“I got the sh!t kicked out of me in Wisconsin. Forget it!”
by Uncle C on May 4, 2009 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
do we know for a fact that Bruce was not in Czechoslovakia in early fall, 1983?
Haha, funniest thing I’ve read today.
by zephyr on May 4, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there’s something to lean on, it’s that the team knows how it felt to push for a split on home ice in the last round, so might know how hard the Pens will bring things.
We've got a goalie who's playing pretty good right now, while you've got one who can't get onto the ice without falling on his ass.
by Bald Pollack on May 4, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it weird that I’m actually concerned because I feel too good about this game tonight? Just a little too cocky?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on May 4, 2009 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I got concerned minutes after the game as I went down to RFK.
We've got a goalie who's playing pretty good right now, while you've got one who can't get onto the ice without falling on his ass.
by Bald Pollack on May 4, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just letting Ovi be Ovi, imo, is enabling, not coaching.
Excellent points all around and I have been worrying about this all year. Boudreau’s ‘enabling’ — oops — I mean coaching mantra seems to be ‘Ride ’Er Till She Bucks Ya’. This is the attack first, last, and only style that transformed/electrified his squad and their Red Jesus. Anti-Hanlon, old timey, let it rip stuff. (I can’t count how many times I have read that Boudreau quote about Greener and how Coach thinks he gets better and stronger the longer he’s out there.)
Can Boudreau make this philosophical/tactical adjustment? Does he even have to right now? Is it time yet? Can he safely keep the pedal to the medal for a few more games?
by Uncle C on May 4, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Backs and Semin performed the way Ovie can if he let them just “be Ovi[e]” I would be crying with happiness all season long.
by DrinkingPartner on May 4, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The key stat there is the 28 penalties stat. We all complain about those 28 HHTs. Well, there’s why they happen.
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 8:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder how much more capable these guys are of sustaining longer shifts than other players? I bet that because (1) they’re young and (2) they do it all the time, they’re much more effective after 80 seconds than most other players would be. As the article suggests, this can create matchup problems for the other team.
I’m not saying that 80 seconds is generally a good idea. But because they’ve been doing it all year, it’s probably not as bad as it would be if they just started doing it. And I don’t think they need to come all the way down to Babcock-land. There may be a happy medium shift length that is higher than the league average but lower than the crazy stuff they’ve been pulling.
by Gould Old Days on May 4, 2009 9:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I generally don’t worry about it as much as I probably should, and of course, winning cures all. But after watching that Detroit/Anaheim game yesterday, I’m a little more concerned. If any game goes into serious overtime, I’d think we be hosed by those long shifts.
by gfcaps fan on May 4, 2009 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All four were in the top 20 in the NHL for average shift time all year. Its been a constant gripe from me as well. IMO with absolutely no evidance to back up my theory,it’s part of the reason that Green and Semin took “lazy” penalties at points. I don’t think you have to go all Babcock on it, but BB can tighten up the shifts.
by d_fens_65 on May 4, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why not? The Babcockian focus on shift-length seems to me to be the perfect contrast. They are a Cup-winning team. That’s where WSH wants to go. Couldn’t be more spot-on.
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, one could argue that Babcock could afford to keep shifts shorter for his top guys because the team had such great depth up front. But I think the emergence of the third line here and a playable fourth argues that Bruce could do the same.
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by J.P. on May 4, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Caps’ strength all season has been their depth. And not just up front. At last check, the Caps played 83 defensemen this year.
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truth. Lack of depth is no excuse here.
I’d lbe interested to hear the question asked of Bruce and see what he offers up in response.
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by J.P. on May 4, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a reason Japers has never inquired about press credentials?
by Yoshietree on May 4, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m actually fully credentialed for the season and have used the access from time to time, but both real life and my desire to be a fan have limited how often I’ve played the pseudo-journo role.
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by J.P. on May 4, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Depth
The Caps have great top-end talent, but I wouldn’t go so far as to call them “deep.” For comparison’s sake, the other remaining seven teams are:
Anaheim: 4-20 Goal Scorers and 7 in double-digits
Boston: 7 and 10
Carolina: 4 and 10
Chicago: 5 and 10
Detroit: 5 and 11
Pittsburgh: 6 and 13
Vancouver: 5 and 11
Washington: 5 and 9
Now, Ovie’s worth three 20-Goal scorers (or thereabouts), but the Caps’ scoring is certainly more concentrated than any other remaining team except Anaheim. I think the Caps can go “deeper” if we need to start calling up defensemen from the AHL (I guess we’re about to find out, huh?), but Chicago, Anaheim, Boston, and Detroit are all unbelievably deep on the back end.
by D'ohboy on May 4, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think another reason that Babcock keeps his forwards’ shifts short is to preserve Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Both players are small, and have been prone to wearing down in the postseason, at least prior to last year. Zetterberg, in particular, struggles with a wonky lower back. With Hossa on board and the emergence of Franzen, there’s no reason to ride them that hard.
Another side benefit to shorter shifts and distributing ice time is that it tends to leave players fresher in the event that the game goes to overtime. (Although it didn’t seem to help the Wings yesterday.)
by D'ohboy on May 4, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see shorter times for the big shots bringing more ice time for those that have the skills to pot goals, but don’t get the ice time to demonstrate it. We have overall depth on the team but only recently have we seen that in goals by 3rd and 4th liners. It’s all good news in the long run.
uhh...uhh...uhh...
by hotdog88gt on May 4, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is impressive analysis, as usual. One question I have for those who might know these things – how do we get this info??? How is it possible in the flow of the game for someone to clock each player’s individual shift time? Or is there like a team of ten statisticians sitting in the rafters each fixed on one player at a time? The sheer human effort (and expense) that would go into logging such a stat accurately just scrambles my brain.
by katzistan on May 4, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Y’know, I’ve always wondered about that. I have no idea.
Oh, and thanks for the kind words up front.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on May 4, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interns. At least that’s how the NCAA does/did it for basketball. An army of 20-year-old interns, each with very specific tasks.
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The NHL stats must be only second the baseball. They have some huge contracting company that just goes through each and every game. It’s pretty impressive.
The shift stat is very important because how else would we know cool things like Jean Beliveau getting natty hat trick in one shift on November 5, 1955? (Took him 44 seconds)
by zephyr on May 4, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is indeed a team (I think about four or five, depending) of statisticians sitting up in the stands for each game. I think they back this up with some folks back in T.O.
by D'ohboy on May 4, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the life of me I can’t remember which team/game this was, but an intermission special (I think from a West Coast or non-traditional market team) this season featured a too-short bit on the stat trackers at NHL games. Not surprisingly, they have specific applications that make it easy to “click” which players are on the ice to track their shift time.
It was an interesting feature, something the NHL could get more mileage out of — I’d think the more they explained it, the more confidence we’d have in their accuracy.
The one tracker they talked to in this feature said something like, “I’ll go out after a game, and someone will ask, ‘How did the [plural team monikers] look tonight?’ And I’ll just say, ’I’m not sure. I know they had 23 hits.’” i.e. Doing the job prevents one from being able to take in the game as a whole. I don’t know if I could do that for a sport I truly love. Maybe as a job in one of those other sports that have the balls and the ESPN and such.
Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.
by Dominik on May 4, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I saw that feature, too. Or something very like it. It does seem quite tedious and I’m not sure I could do it, either.
I think scouting might be similar, because you have to train yourself to watch one or two players, rather than the flow of the game. Isolation cameras are neat on occasion, but can you imagine watching the whole game like that?
by D'ohboy on May 4, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think about all of the surprises you would get though. Focusing on Ovie, focusing on Ovie… wait, where’d that puck come from? Where’d it go? Oh well. Focusing on Ovie, focusing on Ovie… It be like a scary movie where you’d be lulled to sleep only to have something jolt you back from a stuppor.
Yeah, actually that job would suck. :)
by Sct112 on May 4, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I totally agree with the point of this post, I’ll point out that there has been some move away from exacting focus on shift length in hockey coaching circles, with the idea being that it takes offensively skilled players some time to get into the flow of the game, and that scoring chances often coincide with line changes.
Over the last 20 years, we’ve seen the emergence of the “mutually agreed line change” (MALC for short), wherein one team dumps it in, and the other team’s defenseman sits behind his own net with the puck while everyone else changes. Prior to the dead puck era, if that defenseman were offensively-inclined (say, Doug Harvey, Bobby Orr or Denis Potvin), he’d rush the puck back up the ice in hopes of creating a scoring chance. Many coaches feel that the new tendency toward MALC contributes to the choppy, defensive nature of the modern game. I’m not saying I totally agree, but it’s one school of thought. I will say this though – Ovie’s “Off the Wall” goal occurred when the Habs changed lines and the Caps didn’t.
Bruce marches to the beat of a different drummer coaching-wise. He lets his best players skate long shifts. He uses an aggressive three-man forecheck most of the game. He almost never has his players fall back into a trap, regardless of the situation on the scoreboard.
As an aside, this reminds me of a story from the NHL draft “combine” in 2004. They do all these physical tests, and one of them is a VO2 max test, as well as other tests meant to gauge lactic-acid threshold. Anyhow, the other prospects were all dying during these tests, with many of them vomiting. Apparently, Ovie just got up smiling and was like, “is that all you’ve got?”
by D'ohboy on May 4, 2009 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
A slightly similar story on Varlamov is recounted in The Star today.
We've got a goalie who's playing pretty good right now, while you've got one who can't get onto the ice without falling on his ass.
by Bald Pollack on May 4, 2009 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is interesting stuff, but it doesn’t quite address the Semin-gets-tired-takes-penalties point that I think is key to JP’s post. That’s the extra-clear argument for getting 28 off the ice after 50 seconds. 91 too, probably.
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you’re right. Still though, I think there are times where leaving them out for an extra 10 seconds can be beneficial. I think where they really get into trouble is when they have a long forechecking shift, don’t score, and then the other team rushes the puck back up the ice against them without letting them change. That’s when Sasha becomes Dr. Hook McCracken.
by D'ohboy on May 4, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll concede that AO is superhuman, but I’m not sure that Semin and Backstrom don’t need to be managed a bit more carefully.
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by J.P. on May 4, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially Backis’ chubby ass. Maybe AO’s trying to skate him into shape?
Oddly, it’s weird that our Russian players are the ones taking long shifts. I’m sure that it makes Feds and Kozzy giggle, since they both grew up in the Tikhonov era. Anatoly Tarasov (father of Russian hockey) was one of the first coaches to really focus on shift length, and Tikhonov was even more exacting, despite having the KLM line at his disposal.
by D'ohboy on May 4, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting you should mention the VO2 max test. Per the National Post (via Alex Ovetjkin):
Capitals general manager George McPhee has told the story of how Varlamov completed the VO2 max test at the draft combine – a torture test of fitness on an exercise bike – and was told the results failed to register. So he jumped on the bike, and did it again.
“VO2 is usually one of the things that will completely waste you for the rest of the day,” says Clark. “If he did that twice, it’s amazing. You want to see the bike, get off the bike and run the other way.”
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by J.P. on May 4, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is it strange that he completed the test (twice) without an issue but is criticized for being out of shape for NHL games?
Is he more exuberant than other goalies?
by snowburnt on May 4, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think there’s any correlation because the questions about his durability (that I’ve heard, at least) relate not to his cardio/aerobic fitness but rather his joint/muscle health.
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by J.P. on May 4, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I remember correctly McPhee said early in the year that one of the things they were concerned about was that Varly got so drained during a game that there was no shot of him going the next night. I’ll have to dig for that but I think I read it here.
by Sct112 on May 4, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s a big sciene-y answer to all of this, but my guess is he probably was not eating right and hydrating between games – that’s the most common explanation for that sort of failure, particularly in younger athletes. We may think that sort of thing is a given, but it’s not, particularly at lower levels of competition.
Incidentally, Ray Bourque apparently broke the apparatus once when he did one of these tests. I think ol’ Ray could lace ’em up right now and be one of the better D-men in the league.
by D'ohboy on May 4, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I recall a story about Chelios from a few years back wanting to play all 60 minutes in a game and no one doubting that he could do it. This, after all, was/is a guy who rode the stationary bike in the sauna for kicks.
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by J.P. on May 4, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Alzner and Sloan recalled per TB
what the?
" 60 percent of the time...it works everytime"
by shwedy on May 4, 2009 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The plot thickens ....
Ya, link here.
Anyone else going “that’s not good”?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on May 4, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To make it even thicker, Alzner was held out of yesterday’s game with an “illness.”
by D'ohboy on May 4, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
per Corey, Erskine left the morning skate early.
We've got a goalie who's playing pretty good right now, while you've got one who can't get onto the ice without falling on his ass.
by Bald Pollack on May 4, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe I could read the WaPo link for that too.
We've got a goalie who's playing pretty good right now, while you've got one who can't get onto the ice without falling on his ass.
by Bald Pollack on May 4, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched the replay yesterday – he took a pretty mean puck to the ankle – played through it but it didn’t look good.
by vt caps fan on May 4, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Erskine shot off the skate/boot
Oh that’s right. I forgot about that. Right off the boot and skated gingerly for the rest of that shift. Good memory.
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, that’s AHLese for: The Caps knew that he might have to play three games in a row, so they eliminated the possibility by telling him to sneeze.
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
New FanShot up to discuss these moves.
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by J.P. on May 4, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If anyone is hurt/not going to play Poti would seem the logical conclusion based upon his recent groin issues and taking a few shots in game 1. Of course this being the playoffs no one will know the real reason until AFTER the season
I find sometimes it's easy to be myself
sometimes I find it's better to be somebody else
by Fauxrumors on May 4, 2009 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Logical conclusion?" O rly, Mr. Spock?
Take a look at 3’s TOI data. Nothing logical about assuming 3’s hurt and is thus likely to miss the game. He played extra shifts late in the third, even.
I have no idea who it is and neither do you. There’s certainly no “logical” reason to point to any one D in particular: They all skated ‘normal’ shifts all the way through the third.
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JP says that Poti took a shot off the boot too. I don’t recall/didn’t see it, but I don’t doubt him either.
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 would be a logical conclusion due to past injury history. Inflamation generally occurs after the sports activity stops and the heart rate returns to normal. Any swelling, soreness etc would be felt the next day usually.
I don’t faux is saying he knows who and why 100%, I think he’s explaining why itd be his educated guess. No need to jump on him.
by MetalCap on May 4, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Faux’s reputation precedes him.
And there’s nothing logical about jumping to Poti’s groin after eight playoff games (and ensuing practices) with no apparent issue.
The boot/shot-off-skate is something else entirely.
by TylerG on May 4, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps I missed this in the post, but is there a stat on average ES shift length? I’m just wondering how much of this is due to the super-long PP shifts that these guys take (not to say I’m a big fan of those – I’m not).
Interesting stuff, for sure. Coaches should take note, the goal scoring times and penalty times are hard to dismiss.
by grapejoos on May 4, 2009 10:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Unrelated to anything, but how did Kid Rock score the good seats? I thought he was a Red Wings fan.
We've got a goalie who's playing pretty good right now, while you've got one who can't get onto the ice without falling on his ass.
by Bald Pollack on May 4, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Great work J.P. I know this issue has been brought up a lot this year including by you. However, I like that you brought in different examples to make the point.
I think Ovi at this point is his career can get away with the lonegr shifts, however as he gets older he’ll have to slow down just as he won’t be so rambunctious with the hits either.
It’s Semin who scares me the most long shift wise. Those shifts are lazy hooks waiting to happen.
by CP2Devil on May 4, 2009 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Detroit’s leader: Nicklas Lidstrom, 48 secs/shift (48th overall)
by red army line on May 4, 2009 11:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
On the bright side Green is “only” at 51 secs/shift.
by red army line on May 4, 2009 11:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The following statement is statistically misleading.
“The average length of an even strength shift for both Ovechkin and Backstrom that resulted in a goal was 38 seconds.
…
AO, Nick and Semin averaged 1:00, 0:48 and 0:51 seconds per shift, respectively, in wins and 1:09, 1:04 and 1:00 in losses.”
Lots of shifts end when you score so that skews them shorter than they would otherwise be. For example, if I always left the ice after scoring but otherwise stayed on the ice for one minute, then an even distribution of goals would result in an average of 30 seconds for shifts where I score and 60 seconds for shifts where I don’t.
Without delving much deeper into the time distribution of those goals, it’s not possible to draw any conclusions from the information provided.
by HockeyBroads.com on May 6, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
16 | 9 | 3 | 4 | 22 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
14 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 15 |
|
Atlanta
|
12 | 6 | 5 | 1 | 13 |
|
Florida
|
14 | 5 | 8 | 1 | 11 |
|
Carolina
|
15 | 2 | 10 | 3 | 7 |
(updated 11.7.2009 at 9:10 AM EST)
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