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2008-09 Rink Wrap: Boyd Gordon

From Alzner to Varlamov, we're taking a look at and grading the 2008-09 season for every player who laced 'em up for the Caps for a significant number of games during the campaign, with an eye towards 2009-10. Next up, Boyd Gordon.


Boyd Gordon

#15 / Center / Washington Capitals

6-0

201

Oct 19, 1983

5

Arbitration eligible RFA; qualifying offer of $761,250 needed to retain rights. Contract of $725,000 in '08-'09

6.24 rating



2008-09 StatsGPGAP+/-PIMPPGPPAGWGSOGPCTTOI/G
Regular Season 64 5 9 14 -4 16 0 0 2 69 18.3 13:27
Playoffs 14 0 3 3 0 4 0 0 0 10 0.0 11:16

Key Stat:  Gordon was third-best on the club in FO% (56.1% of 667 draws), behind the two forwards you would expect:  David Steckel (57.9% of 886 draws); and Sergei Fedorov (56.2% of 665).

Interesting Stat:  Here are two:  (i) Gordon's giveaway-to-takeaway ratio was second-best on the team (2.29); and (ii) he was tied for fourth-best in PA/60 -- penalties committed by the Caps per 60 minutes (4.1). 

The Good:  If his work ethic over the summer is any indication, Gordon brings it most every game, plain and simple.  Of course, with David Steckel, a forward in a similar mold, having just signed a two-year deal that summer, he had a little something to prove to the organization - that he was a unique and vital part of the team, rather than an interchangeable pair of skates and hands.

It's incredible to recall that Gordon made his NHL debut, many painful seasons ago, on the top line alongside Jaromir Jagr.  And even as recently as the fall of 2007, Gordo was "one to watch" in the Eastern Conference as possibly on the verge of a "break out" season. 

But let's be honest:  what separates Gordon from the rest of his grinder-line ilk, the essence of his value, is contained in his PK abilities and in his ability to win draws.  And those two elements separate into our Rink Wrap quite elegantly.

In the regular season, Gordon's 56.1 FO% was good for ninth-best in the league amongst forwards who took that many draws.  He was third on the team in draws taken, behind Nicklas Backstrom (48.7% of 1171) and Stecks.

That faceoff prowess even improved in the playoffs to his winning 63.3% of 120 draws.  That rate remains at just about the top of FO% amongst participants in this spring's post-season.

You'll also recall that Gordon was adept during the season at a key skill of checking forwards that is somewhat difficult to track:  shifting play, and ensuing face-offs, from the defensive end to the offensive end.

Oh, and, on-ice performance aside, sisters of the Scarlet Caps tend to favor Gordon as well.

The Bad:  We should temper this point, but Gordon's GA/60 at 4-on-5 (7.61) was the worst of any forward not named Donald Brashear, Chris Clark, or Tomas Fleischmann.  Three gents, at least this past season, that might have made you wince to see out there killing a penalty.  And in his 14 playoff games, that ratio remained steady (7.64).  He also was tied, with Brooks Laich, for the most total PP goals against (27) while on ice at 5-on-4.

But Gordon was on PK duty for more TOI/G than any forward other than Steckel, so it's disingenuous to compare this ratio to those of Cap forwards who didn't log the same grueling minutes.  Who knows how any other forward would perform under a similar strain.  In fact, Gordon logged the sixth most PK time per game amongst forwards in the League.

So, comparing this season to his own past performance, Gordon allowed only 6.57 GA/60 at 4-on-5 in 2007-08, in a similar amount of TOI/G.  His rate of shot blocking on the PK declined a bit from 2007-08 to 2008-09 as well, from 24.9 shots blocked per 60 minutes at 4-on-5 to 23.4.

And comparing Gordon to other PK forward workhorses league-wide -- an elite group of fifteen who logged at least 3:00 TOI/G at 4-on-5 and played in a minimum of 40 games (which group includes Steckel) -- Gordon's GA/60 was the 5th worst ratio of the group.  Yeah, I'm harsh.  But it's tough love.

The Vote:  Rate Gordon below on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the best) based on his performance relative to his potential and your expectations for the season - if he had the best year you could have imagined him having, give him a 10; if he more or less played as you expected he would, give him a 5 or a 6; if he had the worst year you could have imagined him having, give him a 1..

The Discussion:  Does Gordon's limited, but crucially important, skill set make him "indispensible"?  And if so, up to what price? And what will it take for him to earn a 10 next season?

Poll
How do you rate Boyd Gordon's 2008-09 season?
10
7 votes
9
9 votes
8
50 votes
7
149 votes
6
176 votes
5
107 votes
4
43 votes
3
13 votes
2
2 votes
1
2 votes

558 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 97 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Comments

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But Gordon was on PK duty for more TOI/G than any forward other than Steckel, so it’s disingenuous to compare this ratio to those of Cap forwards who didn’t log the same grueling minutes.

Further to that point, Gordo faced the toughest competition at 4-on-5 of any forward on the team (how was Stecks so low?). Tough minutes.

Disappointing, though, that his offense has gone from 29 to 16 to 14 points and his +/- from +10 to +5 to -4 over the past three seasons (admittedly, his role has changed somewhat over that time).

Yet another 5 from me – on the southern tip of what I expected from him, and that’s based largely on the team’s overall PK efficiency throughout the year, much of which is unfair to put on him, but when that’s all you do…

As for his next K, no-brainer to qualify him, and I’d be fine with a 2-year/$1.6m deal.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 7:29 AM EDT reply actions  

If there’s a negative intangible…

If you ever see a Cap get crushed by a monster check in a game, well its usually Gordon who’s the recipient.
To his credit, he shows a lot of toughness in always getting back up.

I don’t know, I think if the caps had better PK defensemen, you wouldn’t need both Steckel and Gordon on the ice, but for next season, his pricetag makes him a good fit for team needs.

by Stormblue on May 29, 2009 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed on that first point – I’ve never seen an NHLer get tossed around ragdoll-like as frequently as Gordo does.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

is that Gordon’s fault? is he a target, just unlucky, or does he put himself in those positions?

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 29, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Personally, I believe it’s called “taking a hit to make a play.” How many times do you see Boyd fail to clear the zone?

by Rob Parker on May 29, 2009 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I’ll argue that Fehr took many more monster checks….and didn’t get back up with nearly the enthusiasm of Gordon. Or at least it looked that way, probably has something to do with strength on your skates or something…

by HateOffSeason on May 29, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Ditto on 5. I’d have to think that with some stability down the middle next year and a presumed 4th line center spot all to this own that his scoring should tick up on 5v5. I’d think a 10 will include improved scoring and (speaking to the larger component) PK work.

by Bald Pollack on May 29, 2009 8:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Boyd Gordon: least controversial/discussion-generating Cap? Discuss.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 8:57 AM EDT reply actions  

I think a lot of it comes down to him not doing much to break from our expectations, either way. Most people expected a good PK effort and a strong showing in the dot. That is basically what we got from him, so there isn’t anything divisive about his performance this season. There isn’t going to be the same spectrum of opinions on him as either of the two Rink Wraps that proceeded him (Fehr, Flash). I gave him a 6 because I thought he was just about what I expected, he gets the extra point because of how heavily we had to rely on him (and Steckel) on the PK.

by Rob Parker on May 29, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah. He is what he is, and what he is is no secret. He’s on this team to kill penalties and take draws. He does what he does, and does it well, and isn’t expected to go outside that, at least not to a crazy degree. He isn’t frustrating to watch generally and he doesn’t draw eyes a lot for doing stupid stuff.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 29, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice – I generated three comments commenting on the fact that he’s not all that interesting to comment on. Meta.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, the controversy for Gordon is the the rating system! He gave me exactly what I expected out of him: good PK-ing, good face-offs, and a few goals. He gave me exactly that, and did it in good form. I gave him a 5 because it was pretty much what i expected. But he did it well! I wish I could give him a 9 for the type of season expected out of him. He performed his duties wonderfully, IMO.

by DrinkingPartner on May 29, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

A lot of time I just watch hockey becuase I enjoy it. I don’t always break down individual talent, or skills, or mistakes as I watch. I’ve been a lifelong fan of the Caps, but I don’t have a hockey background, and truly just see things from a fan perspective.

With that said, I really don’t remember Gordon on a first line with Jagr, or ever considering him to be a really offensive player. Of course, I might just be blanking the memory of the pain of those years from my mind. But seriously, I don’t ever remember thinking of him anything but a 4th line/ PK grinder. Hell, the post about his decreasing scoring numbers shock me, I can’t imagine him scoring that much, and I watched it and just don’t remember.

So, he got a 6 from. I expected energy and faceoff wins and PK from him and got it. I didn’t expect scoring from him, and got a little, hence the 6. If I had been more aware of his past role and scoring ability, I probably would have rated him lower. Ah well, luckily as a Cap fan, I have a pretty short term memory.

by HateOffSeason on May 29, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I definitely remember Gordo with Jags. In fact, in the first two games of Boyd’s NHL career, the Caps scored the following three goals:

Jaromir Jagr (Boyd Gordon)
Boyd Gordon (Jaromir Jagr, Brendan Witt)
Jaromir Jagr (Kip Miller, Boyd Gordon)

He had one assist in the next 23 games. Sigh.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I thought Flash’s Wrap was yesterday.

by Bald Pollack on May 29, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nice. Rec’d.

by Love and Osechkin on May 29, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, sometimes it is difficult to tell whether you’re looking at Flash or Gordo…

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

If the two of them could combine, you’d have another Ovechkin.

I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.

by Whiter Mage on May 29, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

which one of them has ovechkin’s (1) dominating physical and hitting game, (2) wrist & slap shots, and (3) way with the ladies?

on the other hand, maybe boyd with another $8 mil per year in his pocket could manage #3.

by Natty Bumppo on May 29, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno, I think Flash is more attractive than Ovechkin, and Backstrom’s got them both. So does Brooks Laich.

</gratuitous comment>

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but what about Erskine?

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s not the sexy lumberjack for nothin’.

by DrinkingPartner on May 29, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with that is that whenever someone says “sexy lumberjack” I picture Erskine in suspenders, a lacy bra and high heels. Ruins the image for me.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 29, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Monty Python reference. Warning: the link is a video. NSFW, and you cannot un-see this.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 29, 2009 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Backi looks like Prince Fauntleroy. Brooks has it goin’ on.

Rockin' the Red in Section 412

by boutros23 on May 29, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Little Lord Fauntleroy, sorry.

Rockin' the Red in Section 412

by boutros23 on May 29, 2009 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s not little in the middle. . .

Hopefully that’s baby fat.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’d be combining work ethic with a skill set, is all I mean. If Flash had Gordon’s work ethic, he’d be getting 35 goals, 50 assists a season. We’d hope.

I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.

by Whiter Mage on May 29, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never find myself yelling at him or about him. So for me he is a member of the team but not one that generates a lot of attention.

by zephyr on May 29, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I do find myself mocking him though…

“uh oh, here comes BOYD with it” … “nice shot boyd, at least you can play defense”

and the laughs ensue

by Scofield on May 29, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The one fault I have with Gordon is sometimes he doesn’t break off the cycle for a scoring opportunity.
5.

by red army line on May 29, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is who I thought he is. Good 4th liner who can bump up to 3rd some times, valuable but sometimes pushed out (wrongly so IMO) for "skill or talented forwards. I like having him and Stecks. Gordo needs to find a way to elevate his game like Stecks dind in the playoffs and it’ll help this team noticably.

by MetalCap on May 29, 2009 9:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Wow… go-go-gadget spellcheck…sorry guys

by MetalCap on May 29, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

OT

Any chance you’re going to be at the Isis/Pelican/Tombs show tomorrow night? I’ll be watching the United game at Momo’s then heading over around 930-ish.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nah I’m gonna be on a boat for my bro’s bachelor party… Vikings here we go again type deally haha.

by MetalCap on May 29, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

As long as you don’t have to row…

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

No not those Vikings… the ones that play football and get introuble with strippers on a boat Vikings.

by MetalCap on May 29, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Either way, you end up on a boat with large men, you go to a town, pillage a bit, harass the womenfolk. . .

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I gave him a 7 – a little above what I expected. I do think both the team and his role have changed over the years and that led me to some interesting numbers. ‘06-07 104 SOG, ’07-08 100 SOG and this year 69 SOG. He did play 4 fewer games this year, but that drop is significant. I’m guessing he couldn’t shoot as much since he was on the PK for so often this year. Caps had 414 minors this year v 366 last year. That’s a lot of time playing in your own zone on the kill.

by kcfatts on May 29, 2009 9:42 AM EDT reply actions  

Yes – take fewer penalties as a team, see a better Boyd at ES and on the PK, I’d surmise.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

Have to say that from a guy we use in a pretty defensive role, I’m glad to see only 16 PIMS. Knew what his role was, and didn’t take stupid, lazy penalties, even when you know he must have been dog tired on some of these PK shifts.

by HateOffSeason on May 29, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Though it should be noted that he committed more PIMs/game this season than in any other season of his career so far, which speaks to his overall discipline level – in 268 career games, often playing against top skill guys, Gordon has been taking penalties at a rate of 2 PIMs for every 10 games played. Bueno.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Or he played his usual game and the refs were out to get us…

by Gould Old Days on May 29, 2009 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I gave Gordo a 7, which probably deserves to be a 6, but I was really impressed that he stayed consistent on the PK this year through so many penalties taken by the Caps.

In general I am impressed with player consistency, because I think it is an underrated characteristic that so many fans (and GMs) expect, but don’t identify as a valuable strength.

by Love and Osechkin on May 29, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

What Gordon already did well, he does well — win draws and kill penalties. But things he should be getting better with as he ages (primarily offense), he’s not. Once upon a time, we wrote of a new nickname for Gordon — muffins

That was in February 2007. Well, now it’s more like “muffin dough.” And, there is the matter of that getting thrown around like a rag doll issue. In the last three years, he’s played 71, 67, and 63 games. What he does well, he is very good at. If the Caps can surround him with guys who can take some of the heat off by not sitting in the penaltiy box so much (so that perhaps he’s not missing 15-20 games a year to injury), they can afford his limited range of talents. But this is also a guy who once scored 33 goals in 58 games in juniors and even had at least a bit of a scoring touch in the AHL. I’m a little surprised that so little of that has seen the light of day at this level.

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on May 29, 2009 9:56 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I’m not all that shocked that we haven’t seen NHL scoring. 33 in 58 isn’t much, and he never lit the AHL on fire. He has speed and decent size and at lower levels that is enough to get you chances. At the NHL not only will that not be enough to get chances, it says nothing about your ability to bury your chances. I never thought Boyd had a scorers touch, I just think his scoring numbers at lower levels are a product of having more skill than his peers and getting a high volume of chances (though I never once watched him play in a CHL or AHL game).

by Rob Parker on May 29, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gordon got a 6 from me. Faceoff’s, check. PK, check. Hustle, check. Nothing outstanding, just a solid lunchpail guy like Brads. I would have a hard time believing that GMGM can get a better value at 4C for his goods in the dot. That said, I think Gordo can get back to shooting a bit more (his SOG fell to 1.08 from nearly 1.5 the previous two years), and like Aucoin, being more of a pest in the offensive zone. I’d love to see some more dirty markers from him.

For a 10 (or just a higher score), I’d want to see him up at 20 points, +5 or better, and maintain a 55% or better faceoff %.

from the house that Red Jesus built

by bigonetimer on May 29, 2009 11:32 AM EDT reply actions  

An 8...

Gordon had an outstanding season and did everything expected of him and then some. He is rapidly developing into one of the premier defensive forwards in the NHL. He’s not flashy or exciting to watch, but he is effective. The Face-off percentage, the PK, checking the best players from each opponent every night, while maintaining a terrific Take-Away/Give-Away ratio….

How does he get a 10…simple, score a few more goals. He doesn’t need to be a 20 goal guy, but there’s no reason he couldn’t get 10-12 every year. If he gets to that figure, he’d get a 10. If he can bag 15, he might get a Selke nomination…

Let's go Caps!

by MikeL-Pivonka on May 29, 2009 12:16 PM EDT reply actions  

premier defensive forwards in the NHL

who’s your top 5-6

from the house that Red Jesus built

by bigonetimer on May 29, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I ask

simply to ID what class he is behind. My own list would include Richards, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and I would say Draper as well on the Wings. I think Brind’amour is a fine defensive player despite the wierd +/- this season.

Personally, I think Boyd would have to get to 58-60% in faceoffs and ratchet up his /- to 20 to get a Selke mention, but I think even that is a bit high of a ceiling. I’ll say this, though: the Caps need some better two-way depth, on the wings in particular, than what we have rolling right now.

from the house that Red Jesus built

by bigonetimer on May 29, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

58-60%...

Now you’re talking Ron Francis/Yanic Perreault territory. He’s terrific on the dot, but I don’t think he’s that good…

Let's go Caps!

by MikeL-Pivonka on May 29, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The top few right now: Richards, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Madden, Zajac, Morrow, Hossa….

The thing is, he can get his +/- up higher if he puts some more pucks in the net, esp. since every goal he gets is almost certainly going to earn him a plus.

Let's go Caps!

by MikeL-Pivonka on May 29, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

If he can bag 15, he might get a Selke nomination…

Do you have a Gordon jersey?

by zephyr on May 29, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have a Hunter and Fedorov jersey. I think he is capable of getting 15. He’s strong enough to make some room for himself, and I think he has a decent shot. Hell, Kelly Miller once scored 20 goals for the Caps… Gordo can get 15.

And he needs to put a few more pucks in the net to get the attention of the Selke voters.

Let's go Caps!

by MikeL-Pivonka on May 29, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

The 6 that I gave Boyd really understates his value. Yes, most of us correctly predicted what Gordon would do this season, so his scores are hovering around the 5-6-7 range. But we should all take a moment to appreciate how valuable he is.

If a hockey team carries one spare player for each position, they’ll have 22 people on their roster (13 F, 7 D, 2 G). With the cap at about $56 Million, that’s an average of a little more than 2 Million per player. Obviously, the salary distribution is not anywhere close to even, so you need a lot of guys in the 700K – 1.25 Million range to permit stars like Ovechkin to make much bigger salaries.

Gordon has made less than 750 K the last two years. I don’t expect him to get a huge raise in the next season (he’s an arbitration-eligible RFA) or even in his UFA years. And I wouldn’t be surprised to see McPhee give him a multi-year extension a la Bradley and Erskine. I think he’s worth it, even at a moderate raise.

by Gould Old Days on May 29, 2009 1:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Word (and it’s one of the reasons that Stecks, at $512,500 (!) this past year was one of the biggest
steals in the whole League).

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Disappointed Four

With his hockey sense/smarts and skating ability, there is just no way that Gordo should put up the stat line he did. True, he was injured, and he never really played on a consistent line, but I expect more out of a guy with his abilities (he was the 17th pick overall fer chrissakes!). Something like 8-12-20 and +10 would have earned a seven in my books.

I love watching Gordo play though. He does very subtle things very well. For example, I love to watch the way he positions his skate blades and stick in order to take away the maximum percentage of a passing lane. I just wish he’d take some of that ability and put it toward contributing something. . . ANYTHING. . . offensively.

He’s almost like a bizarro-world Marc Savard. When I used to watch Savard a couple of years ago, I couldn’t help but wonder how a player who clearly understands the game and thinks it so well could simultaneously be so inattentive and atrocious defensively. If Savard can learn to play defense, maybe Gordo can learn (remember?) how to play offense.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 2:16 PM EDT reply actions  

See, this is my point about seeing things from a fan’s eyes and not really looking at the behind the scenes stuff before this year. (and i’m addicted now) Didn’t even know Gordon was a first round draft pick. Never would have guessed in a million years.

And from above, Steckel was only a cap hit of $512K? My mancrush just grew.

by HateOffSeason on May 29, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

FWIW, Steckel was also a first rounder (Kings @ 30 in 2001).

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes, he was the 17th overall pick, but hadn’t we realized before this season that he wasn’t going to be an offensive contributor?

by Natty Bumppo on May 29, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

to be totally fair, i was also calling for more offense just last season:

liked boyd going into the season, like him still. could only dole out a 5 because i was hoping for more offense (saw him unleash a bag of offensive tricks at practice once) and that he’d start climbing the depth chart this year (losing late-season and playoff minutes to steckel). and only 1 short-handed goal? the team could use more shorties!

basically though i had high expectations and he met them. remember also the game in november when gordon broke his hand but later notched a shootout goal? i hope boyd sticks around.

i think my own lowered expectations this year are solidified because gordon’s offense seems to be needed less and less as players like mike green and david steckel are given increased offensive roles. he’s become a major niche player, but it’s a niche the caps badly need.

and yes, i just quoted myself. :)

by Natty Bumppo on May 29, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I feel that, draft position aside, Gordo’s upside is John Madden/Kris Draper. Right now, his “PECOTA comp” if you will is Stephane Yelle. I’d obviously like to see him more toward the Madden/Draper side, but I think he underperformed the Yelle comp this year, and that’s why I score him a 4.

The problem with Gordo is that there are TONS of guys who can take draws and kill penalties. True, not all of them will be as good as Gordo or Yelle, but there are like 4 guys down in Hershey who could reasonably approximate what Gordo does, and would gladly do it for around the league minimum. (For example, we picked Steckel up off the waiver-wire scrapheap and look how he turned out.) The difference in the value of grinders usually comes from their ability to contribute offensively. A 10/15/25 Gordo who scores some shorties is very valuable. A 4/12/16 Gordo who doesn’t score any shorties is fairly easily replaced by your choice of Andrew Gordon, Andrew Joudrey, or Steve Pinizzotto.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do think Gordon is significantly better than the guys you allude to the in AHL…

by Gould Old Days on May 29, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s better, but is he $1m better? 3rd/4th liners are EVERYWHERE. Steckel was a waiver pick-up. The Bruins got Yelle as almost an afterthought this year. The Pens got Craig Adams on waivers. The Red Wings acquired Draper for a bag of pucks back in the day. I could go on beating the horse, but the point is that on a team stacked with expensive top-end talent, you’ve got to economize somewhere, and a Gordo making more than $1m is a Gordo we can’t afford, especially when we’ve already got Steckel.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I do think he’s 500 K better than Quintin Lang, or anyone else who is a fantastic AHL grinder. 1 Million is a fair salary for Bradley and it’ll be a fair salary for Gordon when he’s a UFA.

by Gould Old Days on May 29, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Laing is a wing, whereas Gordo is a center, so ceteris paribus, he’s more valuable. The thing is, the Caps organization has a TON of 3/4 centers. We’re literally swimming in them with: Gordo, Stecks, Beagle, Joudrey, Aucoin, A. Gordon, Pinizzotto, Wilson. . .

I think you’re right that Gordon is worth 500k more than most of those guys, but if he’s making say 1.65m, he’s making 1m more than all of those guys except for perhaps Aucoin. Now, you might say, “well, that’s just 1m, or heck, that could be as little as 750k.” The problem is, when you start overpaying your role players, even by just a little, you can start losing the salary cap wiggle room that allows for mid-season roster flexibility.

I’ll put it this way: Let’s say GMGM didn’t resign Bradley this last offseason, and instead replaced him with… Oh let’s say Jay Beagle. How much worse do you think Beagle would have been? Would the marginal improvement Bradley provides be worth the $500k salary difference? What if we could have afforded to acquire Guerin with that $500k?

The Caps are pretty obviously going to have to follow a “stars and scrubs/youth” salary structure in order to keep the Ovie/Backis/Green/Semin core together. These penny-ante salaries at the bottom end of the roster will start to add up, making our margins tighter and tighter. When there are 90% equivalent replacements down in Hershey or on waivers for half the cost, I think the Caps will have to think long and hard about whether they can afford to give guys like Gordon over $1m.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Btw, when I said he’s cet. par. more valuable, I was referring to Gordon, not Laing. It wasn’t clear from my messed-up syntax.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think those AHL guys are nearly as valuable. Joudrey, Pinizzotto, and Wilson are all borderline NHL prospects at this point, Aucoin isn’t a very good defensive player and Beagle didn’t look to me like he had nearly the skill or anticipation to kill penalties like Boyd Gordon. Andrew Gordon is, I think, solely a wing these days.

by David Getz on May 30, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is the mention of Gordon as a mid-first rounder (2002), in the context of his offensive output, more of an indictment of Boyd himself or of McPhee’s earlier drafting, reaching to get him there?

by Stephen Pepper on May 29, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

A little from Column A, a little from Column B

Probably more the latter than the former though. I personally think that it’s the height of stupidity to draft a guy who projects out as a third/fourth liner at best anywhere in the first two rounds. The upside simply doesn’t warrant the high slot, since those guys are freely available every year through waivers, trades and college/undrafted free agent signings.

In that vein, I think Carolina’s selection of Brandon Sutter at #11 in 2007 was really foolish. I watched the kid play some in junior – he wasn’t a top-line offensive talent even in the WHL. His absolute upside is as a good grinder. What a waste of a pick.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The upside simply doesn’t warrant the high slot, since those guys are freely available every year through waivers, trades and college/undrafted free agent signings.

I really don’t think that’s true. You can always find someone who can fill the spot, but the number of guys who can fill the spot and fill it well, like any role in the NHL, isn’t going to be that high. If you’re talking a really good checking line player like Maltby or Madden, those guys are worth high draft picks in my opinion.

by David Getz on May 30, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

he did have 2 GWG, fwiw

from the house that Red Jesus built

by bigonetimer on May 29, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s a 5. He gives exactly what I expect him to, consistent effort, and a solid PK guy. I don’t care that he can’t play offense well. Frankly, if we don’t keep Gordo, if only for his Yannick Perrault interpretation, just call up Laing, and you have the same guy.

I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.

by Whiter Mage on May 29, 2009 2:32 PM EDT reply actions  

I think Gordon has significantly more value than Laing by virtue of his ability to play center and his faceoff skills on the penalty kill.

by David Getz on May 29, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gordon kills Laing

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, I’m saying that if you have to let Gordo, Laing is the same guy minus face off skills.

I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.

by Whiter Mage on May 29, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are a lot of guys down at Hershey who could do a Gordo impersonation (including the “other” Gordon), but I don’t really think Laing is one of them.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I’m saying that if Boyd Gordon never took another draw, I’d still much rather have him than Quintin Laing.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Out of curiosity

Do you know what the Caps’ PK stats were like with and without Gordo? I always fail at finding those nifty “split” stats that you, DMG and Pepper seem to have at hand.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh good

I’m not the only one. I’m like “how do you guys FIND half this stuff?”

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 29, 2009 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

They could tell us, but then they’d have to kill us. Most of the stuff like GAON/60 and so forth comes from behindthenet.ca, but I don’t know where the nifty splits (such as “the Caps’ PP was 13/40 whenever Kozlov ate pasta before the game.”) come from.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s because those stats aren’t available – we cobble ‘em together by hand b/c we’re not tech-savvy enough to write some code to make it easy.

Some might call us losers. Others might call us heroes.

If you enjoy the free content, I suggest the latter.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I prefer to fear and admire you for your skills.

Rockin' the Red in Section 412

by boutros23 on May 29, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you know what the Caps’ PK stats were like with and without Gordo?

Oh, and to answer your question…

Season PK% overall: 80.6% (312 for 387)
PK% with Gordon: 80.6% (237 for 294)
PK% sans Gordo: 80.6% (75 for 93)

Yes, really.

The PK was actually .0329% more successful without Gordon than with him.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 29, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wow.

On two levels. First, that you came up with that. Nice work.

Two – I can’t believe he had essentially no effect. I’m honestly shocked.

by D'ohboy on May 29, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t believe he had essentially no effect. I’m honestly shocked.

Or he was about equally effective as Dave Steckel, who was usually one when Boyd was off.

by Rob Parker on Jun 1, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty much exactly what I expected – a little low on the offense side, a little worse on the +/- and PK than I’d like, but he is what we thought he is.

Honestly, I’m not sure Boyd is capable of a 10… but I’d imagine it would be something like 15-18G, a PK improvement to get to the upper-middle of the “PK workhorse” group.

A 5 would look pretty much exactly like this year, but a touch better in any one area. I think if his stats next year are the same, he’d be a 4 (instead of a 5 this season).

-d

by meep_42 on May 29, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions  

He's a solid 4th line guy for the money....but....

Gordo could be replaced, though not necessarily in-kind, by the likes of:
Aucoin, Beagle or Joudrey
If we lose experienced guys like Kozlov & Fedorov, signing Gordo for around $800K might make sense.
Somehow, we’ve got to make room for a few of the Hershey guys, I would think.
Gordo would definitely be picked-up by another team and might be offered in a pre-1 July trade package with others such as Morrisson, Schultz or Jurcina. The return would have to make it worthwhile.

by Dougeb on May 29, 2009 5:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Bell curves, gotta love em. Standard deviation is a most interesting thing.

by Hunky Dory on May 29, 2009 9:36 PM EDT reply actions  

He's an inevitable red wing

Gordon is the kind of guy that lands in Detroit, starts putting up 15-20 goals a year and has killer playoffs, providing depth and secondary scoring as well as great penalty killing (when he has more than one partner who belongs on a penalty kill). Then he wins the cup and Caps fans bemoan. How many times have I read ’bring back Burnette" in the past 4 years?

Its not the players all the time. Sometimes its the roster.

by Hunky Dory on May 29, 2009 9:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Clark Insurance Year 2?

Part of me believed last year that if the team felt Clark was going to be healthy enough for a full season, they would not have brought Boyd back. This season, I feel a little different. I think our PK would suffer greatly without him and stecks to turn to. Not only would you have to replace him with a PK monster, but you’d have to replace him with someone who can win you the draw 60% of the time. That’s not an easy task.

I won’t be shocked if we see someone match our tender. Won’t be shocked if we don’t compete for him after that. But the guy’s an important piece of the depth puzzle.

As for this season. Gave him another 5. He did what I hoped, what I expected. Nothing less, nothing more. A little fire power on the 4th line and you’ll see his points jump a bit.

by FFSEnough on May 30, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions  

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