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"What investigators aren't sure of is whether Richard Thomas, 35, is telling the truth when he says he is the biggest steroid provider in Central Florida and that he sold mostly to professional athletes, including those on the Washington Capitals hockey team and Washington Nationals baseball team."

- The Tampa Tribune (h/t EMac; PD has more as well)

over 2 years ago Jp_avatar_2_tiny J.P. 118 comments 0 recs  | 

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Wonder how much Bettman paid the guy to make that claim.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 27, 2009 7:55 AM EDT reply actions  

On EITM this morning they were talking about how Jose tested positive for propecia, a drug used to mask steroids when he played international. But I am not sure how true that is.

I’d love to read this…

TSN is now learning that Michael Nylander and Jose Theodore have been expelled from the League due to steroids. The Caps WILL NOT be responsible for paying their salary. In other news, Sidney Crosby tested positive for Midol.

But seriously, if this is true ( which would be really really surprising and I doubt it) who on the team would it be?

I could see Green or Ovy for some reason.

" 60 percent of the time...it works everytime"

by shwedy on May 27, 2009 8:16 AM EDT reply actions  

First off, speculating as to whom it may be is incredibly irresponsible at best.

Secondly, on Jose, it’s true.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 27, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, I think saying I could see someone doing it is different then saying I think someone is doing it.. I could see Ovechkin punching out Malkins agent, doesn’t mean I think it’s true. Or I could see Player X getting into a bar fight, doesn’t mean I think it’s true.

If a news reporter asks someone on the street what do you think about certain allegations about this person and they say " I could see that or yes I believe it"…I don’t think that’s irresponsible. I am not in journalistic position nor am I accusing someone of anything.

And I also prefaced it with " I doubt it and it would be surprising".

" 60 percent of the time...it works everytime"

by shwedy on May 27, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

propecia is also used to grow hair. It raises estrogen levels.

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

My understanding is that it blocks reception of a certain type of testosterone that causes hair loss.

by David Getz on May 27, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just did some quick wiki-ing. It looks like it is a testosterone derivate, I was wrong in that it raises estrogen levels but it does reduce males’ protection from estrogen and can lead you to grow breasts. I had a friend who was thinking about taking it but didn’t because of this side effect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

That would explain all the Levitra/Cialis/Viagra commercials I’ve seen this past season…

by red army line on May 27, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I decided to take that less than one percent chance in order to keep my hair and it’s worked out pretty well for me!

by David Getz on May 28, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Guy is from Florida, could that mean Fedorov of Kozlov? Maybe this is why Kozlov “made a firm decision to play in Russia”. I dunno, I hate to think it being any of our guys, past or present. This is the kind of crap that sticks with a franchise.

http://www.wiseadvertising.com/home.htm
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.

by Sombrero Guy on May 27, 2009 8:48 AM EDT reply actions  

My immediate reaction was Brash.

I still don’t think it’s true though.

by Ovechwin on May 27, 2009 8:54 AM EDT reply actions  

First off, speculating as to whom it may be is incredibly irresponsible at best.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 27, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not irresponsible, let alone incredibly so. I’m not shouting it from the tree-tops, I’m not going to the authorities with my opinion, this is the internet, it shouldn’t really be taken this seriously.

by Ovechwin on May 27, 2009 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

If your justification for acting irresponsibly is, ’it’s the internet, so why not?’ then find somewhere else on the internet to act irresponsibly.

by TylerG on May 27, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not irresponsible because there are no possible repercussions.

by Ovechwin on May 27, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Someone is showing her age…

by kcfatts on May 27, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Think whatever you would like. My age has nothing to do with my argument.

by Ovechwin on May 28, 2009 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK, perhaps it’s not “irresponsible” for you to speculate (though it clearly would be for me), but I could think of other words that might be applicable and no more flattering.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 27, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

For anyone who really feels the need to speculate, they can always go here. It’s not only allowed, it’s encouraged.

by b.orr4 on May 27, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Recaroni

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 27, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

I always thought Tarik was juicing – he’s way too big to be a beat writer.

by Stormblue on May 27, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

The basis of my speculation was entirely logical.

by Ovechwin on May 27, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Brash’s paycheck hinges on his ability to fight, which is greatly aided by his strength and muscles, and taking steroids would help him build that muscle?

by Ovechwin on May 27, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

You just confirmed the basis for my opinion of your speculation.

by Gould Old Days on May 27, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, someone is showing her age…

by kcfatts on May 28, 2009 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

haha the basis of my speculation was geographical, but in all honesty JP is right and its not fair to speculate, even if said speculation is not exactly accusatory.

http://www.wiseadvertising.com/home.htm
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.

by Sombrero Guy on May 27, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is the internet, it shouldn’t really be taken this seriously.

What do you think that Pitt fan who threatened to kill Ovechkin is thinking?

by RedskinFan4Life on May 27, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

That situation is completely different. I haven’t threatened anyone’s life have I?

That was completely overblown anyway.

by Ovechwin on May 27, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

not saying you did. just saying that it’s been said all the time. both of these are both way out of proportion.

by RedskinFan4Life on May 27, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, its hilarious that the woman smiled in her mug shot.

http://www.wiseadvertising.com/home.htm
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.

by Sombrero Guy on May 27, 2009 8:56 AM EDT reply actions  

I must be losing it. When did Tarik start linking and giving credit to Japer’s Rink? I thought they never used blogs as legitimate sources.

by HateOffSeason on May 27, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions  

Using blogs as legitimate sources is like the pull out method. Sometimes it works wonderfully but generally it just increases the circulation of stupidity.

by Rob Parker on May 27, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec’d x 100

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 27, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Now that’s the truth. Rec’d.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 27, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know about that. Maybe it’s just confirmation bias, but I don’t recall any of these steroid smoke signals that didn’t turn out to have a fire at their base. It’s certainly cause for concern.

by Ginga on May 27, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dude’s probably just a jealous Panthers fan

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Take a breath

Before we all go and start smearing people’s reputations without any evidence, let’s take a look at the facts:
1. You’ve got husband and wife ‘roid heads working out of their basement in Tampa. Does that sound like a sophisticated drug dealing operation that reaches into all levels of pro sports? And if you’re a pro athlete, are these two people you’d be dealing with? We’re not exactly talking Balco here.
2. The guy is bragging that he’s the biggest steroid dealer in the U.S. When was the last time you heard a drug dealer admit to anything, least of all being the biggest drug dealer in America? Does this sound like a guy who’s all there?
3. Again, these two are based in Florida. Last time I checked, there were nine pro sports teams in that state yet the two teams he mentions are based in DC. How does that leap happen? We’re supposed to believe he’s got connections with the Caps and the Nats, some 800 miles from Tampa and none with the Lightning and Rays who are in his backyard? If this guy was based in Beltsville, I’d have an easier time thinking he might have some connection, but the Caps only visit Tampa four times a year and the Nats never. I’m thinking he picked Washington because the name carries all sorts of national implications. I mean, if you want to be the biggest drug dealer in America why not link yourself to the Nation’s Capital.

I could go on, but you can see where I’m headed. I’m not naive enough to think there couldn’t be steroid users on the Caps or Nats, but this story just doesn’t pass the smell test. Until I hear specific names or documented evidence linking this guy to players, I’m not buying his story. The problem is that the people who want to hate the Caps will.

by b.orr4 on May 27, 2009 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

The people who want to hate the Caps will find something. If not this, then something else. Never underestimate the power of the desire to believe to make you sound like an idiot.

As Tyler said, this sounds to me like a WA claim to attempt to get a plea deal.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 27, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention that if the Nats are using roids, they’re probably using them rectally as someone else put it.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 27, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

“3. Is it worse PR for the Caps to share a headline with the word “steroids,” or with the word “Nats”?" – Sports Bog

by MetalCap on May 27, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they’re from Tampa, the connection to the Nats is one very large man named Elijah Dukes.

Is it irresponsible to speculate about the baseball players and not the hockey players? ;-)

by Scott in Shaw on May 27, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Baseball’s steroid testing is pretty tough these days. If they can catch Manny, they certainly would catch Dukes.

by b.orr4 on May 27, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t believe you get tested when you are on the DL in MLB. And that’s where Eli is right now.

by wittcap79 on May 27, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

you probably get tested on the way back in. Dukes has been a psychopath with an excess of testosterone for a long long time, if anything he could be selling his blood to people to design new steroids with.

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe, I don’t know the exact policies, nor am I really inclined to look them up at the moment. Some guys have been big their entire lives…Dunn, Dukes, Pujols, etc…some were def not, Bonds, ARod, Mac…and Dukes has calmed down alot since his “incident”.

by wittcap79 on May 27, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

That is probably just maturity setting in. It can happen, right?

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not that I think this guy is legit, but saying that he lives in Florida isn’t exactly proof that he is lying. I would think that if you wanted to juice and were really worried about covering your ass you wouldn’t mind getting a supplier from out of state rather than getting them from someone in your own backyard. Don’t shit where you eat, if you will.

by Killer_Carlson on May 27, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would think that if you wanted to juice and were really worried about covering your ass you wouldn’t mind getting a supplier from out of state rather than getting them from someone in your own backyard.

Sounds like we should check your background out… Plus, if you knew anything about DC you would know that the real reason they went to FLA is because the drug market in DC suuuuucks.

by Rob Parker on May 27, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m the biggest steroid dealer in the northeast. I supply to all teams across all sport…like the Pittsburgh Penguins.

by Killer_Carlson on May 27, 2009 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which players in particular do you supply? 87 maybe? 71? 55?

by red army line on May 27, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I haven’t found any story mentioning the NHL’s drug testing policy. I think there’s mandatory testing but I can’t remember the specifics. Could someone please link to it or provide some background?

by Lisita on May 27, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions  

It’s article 47 of the CBA. According to that article, each player can be tested twice during the season on practice days. Punishment is first positive = 20 game suspension, 2nd = 60, 3rd = indefinite

by apk3000 on May 27, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here’s the link. The flaw with the system is that it only allows for testing during the regular season, not the playoffs and the off-season. There’s a chance that’s going to change since the league now says it would be in favor of year-round testing.

by b.orr4 on May 27, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks to both of you. Getting nothing done right now. This is all unfounded crap but I can’t help but be distracted about it.

by Lisita on May 27, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Definitely rec that one.

by gfcaps fan on May 27, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

….for the pitchers, at least

by David Getz on May 27, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Make that “relief pitchers”. Their starters are actually pretty good, not that you’d ever know it by the team’s record.

by b.orr4 on May 27, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

See also: Baltimore Orioles

by Rob Parker on May 27, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

How’d the dude from the Waltons get so buff?

by Bald Pollack on May 27, 2009 10:36 AM EDT reply actions  

IIHF

Does anyone know what the IIHF standards for testing are? I would think that our guys who have World Championship/Olympic aspirations would be more cautious about buying steroids, especially when playing in the Olympics is about the most important thing to them.

by baldinga on May 27, 2009 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

I would think so as well, I know it’s more strict than NHL testing, but I don’t know what the standards are. I have to think that any of the guys hoping to compete in the Olympic games would have to be stay away from the ’roids.

by PaintDrinkingPete on May 27, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

The only player currently on the Caps...

…who has had issues with banned substances is Jose Theodore. He was a candidate for the Olympics in both 1998 and 2002 for Canada, but he tested positive for Propecia (a hair regrowing medicine). Propecia isn’t a steroid, but it can be used to mask other steroids.

Considering that Propecia is used to regrow hair, and Theo has a full head of hair, it’s either a great endorsement for the product, or there was something going on there….

Let's go Caps!

by MikeL-Pivonka on May 27, 2009 10:45 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm no expert

But why would somone who plays a skill position based on reflexes, quickness, agility, and vision need to take ’roids?

by wittcap79 on May 27, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

The main reason for someone not needing bulk to take steroids is to recover faster after injuries and between games.

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would have thought that would be more of an HGH thing.

by wittcap79 on May 27, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Could be, but the term “Steroid” has come to mean any performance enhancing drug.

A pitcher is in the same league as a goalie in terms of the benefits of steroids. The shoulder is a sensitive joint that needs to be exercised carefully. Bulk is not needed. I thought I’d heard during this whole baseball thing that these guys took it to recover quicker. On Mike & Mike in the morning one day Mike Golic (retired Defensive lineman for the eagles) admitted to using steroids when he was starting out in the league to overcome an injury and keep his roster spot.

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, I don’t think HGH are banned in baseball. I could be wrong but I recall hearing how that’s a big loophole in their drug testing system.

by b.orr4 on May 27, 2009 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pretty sure that’s what the Rocket’s in trouble over.

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean, he’s in trouble over supposedly lying to congress about it.

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

HGH is banned….now.

A lot of players (Pettite, Grimsley, etc) admitted taking them back in ‘02-’03 timeframe, before MLB banned them in ’05

by Cluster on May 27, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re right. What I meant to say was that MLB doesn’t have any way of testing for it since the urine tests don’t detect it and the union won’t allow blood testing.

by b.orr4 on May 27, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I remember Jose saying that he just likes having a lot of thick long hair. I seriously doubt that he’s been doing Steroids for over 10 years.

by zephyr on May 27, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

“But you don’t have dandruff”

“Exactly”

by Gould Old Days on May 27, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This smells fishy to me and steriod dealers are generally pretty shady characters without much credibility in the first place.

As Brett Hull said, steriods wouldn’t really benefit hockey players as much as it would players of other sports. Of course you want to be big and strong, but it has to be the right muscles that won’t hamper your skating stride or ability. That’s not to say there’s no steroids in hockey, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

When it comes to performing enhancing drugs in hockey, they really need to look into uppers. From playing a little college hockey I’ve seen guys take some boosters but never anything serious like steriods or HGH.

by Hooks Orpik on May 27, 2009 11:12 AM EDT reply actions  

you’d be surprised what helps you and what doesn’t.

In the “good ole days” of baseball they used to have bowls of speed in the locker rooms and people would take hits through out the season. Baseball? why would you need speed in baseball?

The season is so long the players couldn’t keep up.

With hockey I wouldn’t think it would be to bulk up so much (except for the enforcers) as it would be to overcome injuries.

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hockey players pop pills like it’s going out of style but it’s usually for stuff like pain. I know Percocet was pretty widely used in ECHL\AHL.

by zephyr on May 27, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Percocet = sweet elixir of the gods

Or so I’ve heard.

by Cluster on May 27, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve been known to blow lines of adderall before a men’s league game. (Joke…right?)

by Rob Parker on May 27, 2009 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brashear is on Big O and Dukes right now…

“All I can say is we get tested 2-3 times a year and no one’s failed” (might be a slight paraphrase on the second half of the quote).

He also said he would “really doubt it” if anyone in the locker-room was involved.

Also brought up a good point about how the dealer never specified when he supplied drugs, could have been before the NHL had a drug-testing policy and before many of the current players were here.

by Hooks Orpik on May 27, 2009 11:33 AM EDT reply actions  

Corey talked to Eminger

http://washingtontimes.com/weblogs/in-the-room/2009/may/27/eminger-no-never-not-once-on-steroids/

http://www.wiseadvertising.com/home.htm
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.

by Sombrero Guy on May 27, 2009 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Anyone talk to Juice? Ask him about that nickname? ;-)

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 27, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Also Brooks talking to WaPo

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitalsinsider/laich-were-not-worried.html

I seriously find it hard to believe it would help someone play hockey. The jacked guys aren’t superior unequivicably to the svelt guys i hockey unlike other sports

by MetalCap on May 27, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not about being jacked – it’s about quicker muscle recovery and recovery from injuries.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 27, 2009 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

In terms of recovery, typically steroid use is something you see in older players who, as we all know, have a much harder time bouncing back from injuries. Younger players really don’t need it that much because their bodies are already operating optimally in terms of the healing process. Again, this only applies to injuries not building musle.

by b.orr4 on May 27, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brooks had a really good quote that, I think, puts it in perpective:

I can honestly say, I have never seen a trace of steroids, from bantam to midget to junior to here. I have never heard of a guy take a steroid, and I’ve never seen a guy take a steroid. If someone was doing it, he would come in at the end of the summer looking huge. And you would have already written a story about it, ‘Jeez, he looks great. Look how big and fast he is.’ But by midseason, he would have shrunk down again because we have testing. There hasn’t been any of that. So as far as I’m concerned, it’s just a rumor and it doesn’t concern any of our present guys.

by b.orr4 on May 27, 2009 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno… Backstrom came into camp looking huge and he shrunk down by midseason… :)

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 27, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Thanks. I’ll be here all week. Be sure to tip the veal and try the waitstaff.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 27, 2009 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dunkin Donuts now has “steroid filled?”

If you've read this far...seek help.

by ThePeerless on May 28, 2009 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The other side of it is that they don’t do testing in the post season. I’d imagine players would go nuts with the stuff at that time and it looked like the caps were waning instead of getting stronger.

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I take steroids EVERY day...

…because I’ve had a kidney transplant and they work as immuno-suppressants. They have bulked me up: my cheeks are plump and I have a sweet pair of man breasts. My point being, there are all types of steroids and not all of them have the same effects on the body.

   I see no credibility in the arguments made by b.orr in the “take a breath” post. In item one the site of the business is debunked, but underground small operations are the back bone of SELLING. Considering the attention steroids have gotten in the last few years such an operation might well have been considered more advantageous.

   In item two, the boast of the suspect is debunked. However, if he is trying to plea deal he might well inform authorities of his importance. The more he knows the more he’s worth, and being so big doesn’t just mean he knows the users but the original suppliers, a much more enticing target to prosecutors.

   In item three the location of the operation and it’s vicinity to D.C. is debunked. This is the least tenable argument in my mind. An athlete can find steroids from a lot of sources: a teammate who played in a different area, an agent, a friend even an athlete on an opposing team. IF this persons operation is as big as he says it is he may have offered a selection that other dealers didn’t have. There are a number of reasons athletes would chose a distant dealer.

   I would also point out that, in terms of sports, there are other cities and sports which would carry greater impact than Washington D.C. and hockey. New York City, Boston/New England, Philly, and even Pittsburgh come to mind.

   All of this is not to say I think this douche is telling the truth, only that it is difficult to justify complete dismissal of his accusations based on these reasons. I am a lot more uncomfortable about the purity of the Caps in terms of steroids than I was yesterday based on the fact that so few of these accusations are proven false. Indeed, the number that were dismissed at first and then shown to be true is disconcerting. My guiding principle here is to assume innocence but I can’t think of one good reason why he would name those specific teams. What benefit would he derive? If he names a team now, while he is trying to show his worth to prosecutors and investigators and is shown to be lying he will, at the beginning, prove he is unreliable.

  I am, of course, assuming he made these assertions under advice of attorney. If, however, he just made these statements on his own it could be he is just an idiot. At this point I guess we will just have to wait and see.

Every year without a Cup adds wonder and awe to its eventual arrival.

by B8ovin on May 27, 2009 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I am a lot more uncomfortable about the purity of the Caps in terms of steroids than I was yesterday based on the fact that so few of these accusations are proven false.

The Caps have no burden of proof here – the accuser has that burden, and until he shows anything remotely resembling evidence, why distrust the accused? That’s all b was saying.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 27, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I admit as much when I say I’m assuming innocence. My point in that statement is the experience of past claims and nothing more. To put it in another way, yesterday I didn’t consider steroid use at all, today I do, even if I don’t believe it. I don’t distrust the accused, but I am forced to entertain the possibility if only because of forced curiosity.

   I didn’t get the impression that burden of proof was b orr’s point. I thought the post was positing reasons for skepticism that weren’t strong arguments given the provided facts. Having now read all the news stories I could find I’m having doubts about this guys veracity, but none of them are based on b orr’s points. For instance, given the charges they do not reflect what one would expect if the accused ran such a large operation (note this does not rely on the site of the operation, as in the basement). I don’t, at this point see any reason to trust the criminal as I have more than reasonable doubt, I just want to make sure I maintain that “reasonable” in my doubt.

Every year without a Cup adds wonder and awe to its eventual arrival.

by B8ovin on May 27, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Further on the same block quote J.P. responded to, the reports you are thinking about are MLB reports. The NHL has had very few people test positive, and you never heard a word about it before they failed the test. MLB had rampant speculation and lots (most?) of those names have now been confirmed. Dick Pound (HA!) claimed that 1/3 of NHL players were on PEDs. That has clearly been proven wrong. Don’t project MLB’s problems onto the NHL.

by Rob Parker on May 27, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

No. While I admit that MLB is a precedent that I find uncomfortable, I am also taking into account track and field, cycling and weight lifting. These sports, particularly the sports associated with the Olympics have all had accusations vilified by the athletes that late proved to be true. Cycling was said to be rife with steroid users, and Lance Armstrong not withstanding, has been shown to be dirtier even than the MLB. I am not basing my fear on a single event or instance.
  I repeat that I do not think these past events prove the truthfulness of this one. I am only saying to effect, once bitten twice shy. I still believe that one day the Caps will beat the Penguins in the playoffs, but I’m protective of any hope I raise during a given playoff series between the two.

Every year without a Cup adds wonder and awe to its eventual arrival.

by B8ovin on May 28, 2009 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

You are taking corticosteroids, slightly different than the performance enhancing steroids.

"You will remember the night you were struck by the sight of [18] thousand fists in the air" -Disturbed

by snowburnt on May 27, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Precisely. The idea that there is only one steroidal supplement or medication, and that single application is to improve muscle growth is fallacious. Steroids can enhance, or hurt, athletic performance in a variety of ways depending on a number of factors. There are steroids that retard the ability of neurotransmitters at nerve endings to absorb chemicals, thus blocking pain, for instance. The arguments that we’d SEE which players were taking steroids is flawed. That was what I was trying to demonstrate.

Every year without a Cup adds wonder and awe to its eventual arrival.

by B8ovin on May 27, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am, of course, assuming he made these assertions under advice of attorney. If, however, he just made these statements on his own it could be he is just an idiot. At this point I guess we will just have to wait and se

I can’t imagine any criminal attorney ever advising a client to go to the media with a claim like this. I can’t for a second believe this is under attorney advice. I personally like the “just an idiot” theory.

*disclaimer — I am a patent/trademark/copyright/trade secrets litigator, not a criminal attorney, so take with grain of salt.

by Gould Old Days on May 28, 2009 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

As I understand it, these assertions were reported to the media by the police not made by suspects. I have to infer this because every thing that I saw pertaining to these statements fell under paragraphs that quoted the police chief, not the suspects. I could very well be wrong or may not have read the reporting correctly, but I am responding as if these statements were made by the police after suspect interviews with an attorney present. If I’m wrong about this all bets are off because if it’s true he made these remarks on his own to the press, he IS an idiot.

Every year without a Cup adds wonder and awe to its eventual arrival.

by B8ovin on May 28, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

It’s even less likely that a defense attorney would tell his client to tell the cops anything like this (or to say anything at all ever to the cops without the defense attorney there)

by Gould Old Days on May 28, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love Trade Secrets. Is there any way to practice Trade Secrets without doing IP (or more specifically, being a member of the Patent Bar)?

by Rob Parker on May 28, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely. Hell, I’m a patent litigator and I’m ineligible for the Patent Bar (you only need the Patent Bar if you want to make patents, not if you want to fight over them).

More to the point, it’s very easy to come at trade secrets cases from a labor law direction. There’s no trade secret without a duty to keep something confidential, and most of the time that duty comes from an employment agreement or a partnership agreement/NDA.

Hell, half if not more of all trade secrets have no technical component at all. They’re sales and marketing data, customer lists, internal business structure information, pricing data, etc. One of the most common cases is when a salesman changes jobs and goes to a competitor, and the question is whether he can start selling the new product to all his old customers that he developed with the previous company.

by Gould Old Days on May 28, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re correct, and I’m a criminal defense lawyer.

by Scott in Shaw on May 28, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

You’re all correct and I’m a non-practicing attorney.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 28, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here’s my photo from my law firm biography:

by Gould Old Days on May 28, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, maybe this is the NHL’s ploy to get back on ESPN without an actual TV deal.
If an NHL player gets suspended, does his salary still count against the cap for his team?

by red army line on May 27, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions  

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