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On The Couch: Examining the Pens-Caps Rivalry

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On the eve of the most riveting playoff matchup for our Washington Capitals since at least the 1998 Stanley Cup Finals versus the Red Wings of Day-twah, I feel compelled to delve into what some may find uncomfortable territory.

Why do we hate the Penguins so, more than all the others?  Is it simply a matter of wins and losses over the years?  What has wrought these psychic scars?

There's been a lot of talk about playoff history between the Capitals and Penguins, and about how none of the players themselves have played a part in that history.  In fact, no current Capital has ever faced the Penguins in the playoffs.  Further, the team is 4-1-2 against these vaunted rivals of Western Pennsylvania under Coach Boudreau.  But whether you're a Caps fan that has come on board post-lockout, or a long-time fan beseiged by bleary (and maybe also beer-y) eyed memories of past failures, a red rocker cannot deny the 1-6 playoff series record between the two clubs, or the two engravings of the team name "Pittsburgh Penguins" which currently grace or deface (depending on your perspective) the holy grail which rests in downtown Toronto in what is now called the Verizon Great Hall of the Hockey Hall of Fame.  (Hmm, Verizon you say?) 

So is it simply the one-sided history between the two clubs that fosters, and festers, such animosity for the black and gold?  Or is it deeper, hydra-headed? 

I remember days, whether at the old Capital Centre or in the current confines, when the Caps would defeat the Pens in a regular season contest.  Inevitably, I was forced to mingle with a smattering of Penguin supporters, waiting on the Metro platform for the same train as me.  Any attempt to boast the fresh victory would be met with some variation of the unassailable, and largely rhetorical, question as insult:  "How many Cups have the Caps won?"  Over the years, I learned to cherish small victories, though still dreaming of one day enjoying that ecstacy of my favorite team in all of sport winning the grand prize.

Yeah, I was jealous.  I was jealous of the Cup victories, both earned partially at my team's expense.  But also of the ardor of the Pittsburgh fan.  How they apparently traveled so well, spared great time, expense, and effort, to invade our home barn.  Of course, spiritually fed by that glorious history for which Caps fans hunger.

But at the same time I railed against the multitudes of barbarians at our gates, and particularly that so many of them lived among us in the D.C. metro area.  And how their numbers, predictably, grew in the wake of those two consecutive Cup victories in 1991 and 1992.  Why must I be tormented in my own home, I cried to the heavens?  Why can't I either enjoy victory with a unified crowd, or experience defeat in peace?  Much younger then, I did not understand the depth of allegiance, the fierce loyalty, one can cultivate for a particular team, even long after one moves away from his home town.  Having lived in New York City for almost ten years, I understand it quite well now. 

(And I also confess to appreciating a bit more the verbal sparring in the arena, so long as the home crowd is still dominantly the home crowd.)

But those burgeoning hordes that came on board the Pens' wagon after those two Cup wins, of which I just spoke?  Those that donned those hated colors for the first time, whilst fully entrenched in Caps land, and quite possibly with no connection to Iron City, going to Caps games and flaunting their stolen wealth?  They fully deserve our scorn, no doubt.

So I think that there's a lot more to this jealousy, this loathing, than simply Cup victories, and a history to which many Caps fans have bore no witness.  For example, I daresay that Caps Nation holds not quite the same emnity for those Detroit Red Wings, who have far more Cup engravings, and one at the Caps' direct expense, that it does for PIT. 

Is it also the sense of entitlement that the Penguins fan seems to have for the spotlight?  Is it the privileged status that the franchise was afforded during the ESPN days, with so many games involving that team, ad nauseam?  And to an even greater extent by outlets like Versus and HD Net post-lockout, not to mention the league's marketing engine itself which left the Capitals and Alex Ovechkin in the dust until recently?

Is it the demure personality of fresh-faced Sidney Crosby?  Ah, is it more the sham of that post-lockout draft "lottery" that handed the Penguins Crosby and left us with . . . Sasha Pokulok?

Is it the star power of Evgeni Malkin, the supposed true rival to the Great Eight, who may, in a certain way, recall the stunning offensive force that was Jaromir Jagr is his days in Ketchup-and-Pickle-ville?  Is it on account of Jagr himself, who by his own admission quit on our team, during the mercifully brief time that he skated for Les Capitals?

Is it simply the similar style of play recently on display between two clubs, a fantastic collision of hockey superheroes (or supervillians)?

Is it the city of Pittsburgh itself?  Is there a distinctive cultural distinction between Rust Town and the District which draws contempt or mockery?  Do you avoid Heinz ketchup or pickle products, Rolling Rock beer? 

Is it those aforementioned black-and-gold fans who descend upon the Centre Verizón, and spread themselves throughout the friendly confines like a virus, with a virulence possibly unmatched amongst rival fan bases?

Or, more to the point, the sentiment from the Pittsburgh camp (among others) that the Capitals, by contrast, haven't had real fans.  Ones that understand when to voice their displeasure at the location of a face-off, or question a particular line matchup, or argue when to chip and when to carry.  And when to leave, or return, to their seats, and when to stay put?

Regardless of the merits of that debate, we unquestionably do have those fans now, and that's what matters.  (And whether Penguins Nation had scores of such fans in the dark years preceding, and immediately following, the drafting of one Mario Lemieux (speaking of whom, don't miss reliving this gem) or, better still, preceding Crosby's introduction at the draft podium, is a worthy subject of discussion as well.)

I must, in fairness, point out that, of all the road arenas I've attended to watch the Caps take on the home team, I was most impressed with the Penguin fan (at least the Pittsburgh-dwelling breed).  During a playoff game in 2000 (which, of course, the Caps lost), I was treated to a spirited, yet intelligent, discussion of the merits of one Chris Simon, some other witty banter from those seated around me, a reprieve of sorts in the men's room for playing peacemaker in an altercation involving another Caps fan and the home faithful, and a chat with two local dudes in a pickup, who sent me off on the long car ride back to D.C. with a handful of Molsons (for the record, I was not driving).

So is it all of these things combined, a perfect storm of animosity set to explode tomorrow afternoon?  What's the mood amongst Rink readers today -- confident, nervous, angry, vindictive, excited?

For me, it all comes down to a good old-fashioned belief that we're due.  Our time has come, and the days of going home empty-handed and with heavy hearts is over.  In this era of rampant bailouts, we're calling for a little re-distribution of wealth in the form of fan satisfaction.  And who better to extract that satisfaction from than the Penguin fan?

And with that said, I leave you with this:  Take heart, be you despondent from this exercise in collective psychoanalysis, in this quote from Coach Boudreau:

All winning streaks have to come to an en end, and usually all grief-stricken fans have got to be excited one day.

"Is this the year?"

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Comments

Display:

I don’t hate the Penguins; I hate Penguins fans.

by zephyr on May 1, 2009 3:18 PM EDT reply actions  

It’s funny, I feel almost the opposite. I don’t find their fans to be any worse than the fans of any other rival – Philly or New York, primarily. The fans aren’t the ones that have ripped my heart out repeatedly over the years – it’s been Mario, Jaromir, et. al. Their fans wouldn’t be hard to take if we had something legitimate to come back at them with…

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 1, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate ’em both.

The current crop of Penguins players are eminently dislikable (especially a certain you-know-who, who shall remain nameless, but whose visage in the picture above resembles nothing so much as a spoiled 12 year old whose teacher has insisted he put away his gameboy during class ("I’m gonna tell my dad, and he’s on the SCHOOLBOARD, and he’s gonna get you FIRED Mrs Griceby!!!)). But there’s something to dislike about all of them. Malkin looks like he has the IQ of a cup of Copenhagen spit. Fedotenko has an annoying name. The Staal Brother – they’re fungible to me – has the most annoying smirk since John Starks. I could go on…but you get the picture.

The historical players had such an annoying sense of privilege…and the team gave birth to Jaromir Jagr, perhaps the single most detestable individual to ever play the sport.

As for the fans, the thing I find the most annoying is their obstinate refusal to apply even a show of objectivity to their support of their team. You-know-who wallops some guy in the sack from behind? He’s just an intense competitor.

Makes me nuts.

I would so, so, so love to beat them this year.

by fat_daddyo on May 1, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really? I hate the Penguins. In fact, there’s only one other team I hate about as much (Philadelphia) and one specific player I admit to hating more than either team (Danielle Briere).

by DrinkingPartner on May 1, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

(quick pinky there)…that is exactly how I feel, right down to my hatred for that little troll with the spear.

by Boodgiesdad on May 1, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fans remain fans, and players switch teams frequently.

That said, definitely there is a higher order of villain, and that certainly includes the likes of Jagr and Lemieux.

I don’t feel quite the same for Crosby, and I hope that I never will, because that will mean that he and his team have done no real damage.

by Stephen Pepper on May 1, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t feel quite the same for Crosby, and I hope that I never will, because that will mean that he and his team have done no real damage.

I think that’s one of the reasons why I haven’t gotten amped for Pens games vis a vis other games. Back in the day, the Pens had a Top 5 Lemieux, Jagr, Coffey, et al., and we had Peter Bondra (much as I love Bonzai). When the Pens won, it ultimately was because they had a guy who could elevate his team.

Now, you’ve got 5 of arguably the best or most promising players in the game, all of whom are under 25, and the scale tilts towards our side, though not by much. Get your popcorn and anxiety ready.

We've got a goalie who's playing pretty good right now, while you've got one who can't get onto the ice without falling on his ass.

by Bald Pollack on May 1, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I actually sorta like Malkin. He doesn’t “talk too much” or cheap shot people and now he’s not feuding with my favorite player anymore.

by red army line on May 1, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s basically what I was saying. I mean I used to hate them…but who is left? The logo isn’t even the same as the team that used to crush us over and over.

Their obnoxious fans that talk about how much of a “douche” Ovechkin is are the current enemy to me. I mean I guess Mario still owns the team but he isn’t very public.

by zephyr on May 1, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, and if they knock us out of Round 2 all of these feelings will instantly change. Then I’ll hate them and the fans.

by zephyr on May 1, 2009 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suspect that about, oh, the 14:55 mark of Period 1, Game 1 you will be looking at the players with a distinct loathing in your heart. You know, once Lord Voldemort has had a chance to cross-check a guy in a scrum, aim a stream of invective at an official with lips a-quiver, and hurl himself flamboyantly over John Erskine’s stick and draw a penalty, I mean.

by fat_daddyo on May 1, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crosby as Lord Voldemort? Not even close. Voldemort has the balls to toy with his prey before killing them; Crosby just hits them from behind. Crosby’s more like Lucius Malfoy.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 1, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s a good comparison. I think AO is like George (where tooth = ear) :-).

by DrinkingPartner on May 1, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice. I agree with you on the Malfoy thing, but would submit that he’s better off cast as Draco Malfoy.

I was just carrying on my you-know-who reference from above. But I like yours better.

If we did the Star Wars list, here’s what I’ve got:

Ovechkin = Potter (the missing tooth is the equivalent of the scar
Backstrom = Ron (great guy always there in a pinch but not flamboyantly (sp?) so)
Semin = the Weasly Twins (good comic releaf, consistently exasperating)
Schultz = Neville
GMGM = Dumbledore

OK, enough.

by fat_daddyo on May 1, 2009 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unh-uh. Boudreau’s got to be Dumbledore. Gotta be.

I’ll buy Crosby as Malfoy – so Kunitz and Guerin as Crabbe and Goyle?

Does that make Fedorov Hermione?

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 1, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

GMGM might equate to Sirius, got him his Firebolt (Backs, Varlamov, etc.) without him knowing. Fedorov is Lupin, and I think Kennedy and Staal have to be Crabbe and Goyle.

by DrinkingPartner on May 1, 2009 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm. Ovechkin on a Firebolt. glances sidelong at Photoshop

Fedorov as Lupin. Perfect.

Matt Cooke as Peeves?

I can go with the Kennedy and Staal thing, although Crosby doesn’t skate with them much, does he?

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 1, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow. I’m fucking terrified right now.

I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.

by Whiter Mage on May 1, 2009 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

You hsould be :)

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 2, 2009 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

As someone who is also a Ravens fan and a Mountaineer, when it comes to sports, I pretty much hate everything about Pittsburgh…even if both of my parents are from there.

by PaintDrinkingPete on May 1, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great article Pepper.

My hatred stirs from the old Capital Centre when I was a kid (10/12), being berated by drunk Pens fans. I learned the value of the F bomb and learned what being an a-hole fan on the road meant. The hatred just stirred from that.

by vt caps fan on May 1, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions  

i’m from about the same age group and I completely agree with you. The Pens will always be the team I most love to hate, simply because of all the ugly memories they left me with during my formative years

by caps98fan on May 1, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dear guys.

Words cannot express how much I hate you guys. As we fight our way into the great unknown, only that one thing remains certain: that I hate you guys with every tired muscle in my Capitals body. We have taken New York, and now I must lolly the men over to Pennsylvania. Because I will not stop until we have won it all, and you guys are my slaves. Because, I hate you guys. I hate you guys so very very much.

Yours,

General Ovie Lee

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on May 1, 2009 3:26 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Nice article. Great perspective on the rivaly. I for one avoid Rolling Rock and other Pittsburgh Beers (notably IC Light). Not because they’re from Pittsburgh, but because they are awful…

Heinz, however, will always be the ketchup in my house…

Let's go Caps!

by MikeL-Pivonka on May 1, 2009 3:36 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t do Heinz on principal.

I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.

by Whiter Mage on May 1, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Is this the year?"

Fookin’ a’ right it is. The door to the Stanley Cup is quick to open and to close in the cap era. It’s our time.

by S h a g g y on May 1, 2009 3:37 PM EDT reply actions  

So the Pens fans up there are OK…It’s the DC transplants that come out, and feel that it is important to show that you are a Western PA reject…I guess if I had to move out of the greatest city on earth..Pittsburgh, PA I would be an angry bastard too.

It all makes sense now, but doesnt help much inside the Verizon Center…..

by SA-Town on May 1, 2009 3:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Heinz also stopped making pickles.

by snowburnt on May 1, 2009 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Given that it’s off-topic, I’ll take your word for it. Thanks.

by Stephen Pepper on May 1, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

For me, it’s all about the playoff record and history. I do dislike Pens fans (despite the fact that I am friends with several), but mostly because of their – well earned, I suppose – superiority complex. They are not as despicable as the average Eastern PA hockey fan in terms of overall nastiness. While the Pensblog may be proof to the contrary, it is often funny and therefore is exempt in my book. It’s simply the playoff ownage. The Pens have broken our hearts more than any other team. That’s the reason.

As for their current team? There’s really not a lot to hate there for me. Crosby is an annoying d-bag, to be sure, but he’s also simply very good at hockey. I don’t really dislike any of their other players on a personal level anymore (but check with me again after this series starts). In contrast, I truly hated Lemieux as a player. He was in the Briere zone for me. It’s a little tougher to loathe them since he hung em up for good.

All of that said, it’s been awhile since there was a good old WSH-PIT playoff battle. I think the last one they played, I saw Nedved score in the 4th OT in Landover. Stuff like that gets the vitriol pumping. It’ll come.

by grapejoos on May 1, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

For me, it goes back to the Wednesday-before-Thanksgiving game, probably in 1989 or 90, when the Caps took 50 shots on goal to the Pens 24 (how do I remember that??) and lost the game 7-4.

That was how it always was against the Pens – the Caps would totally outplay them, dominate them in every way, and then the Pens would catch the Caps on a line change and score, or a deflection and score, or a weak wrister from the point and score. That’s how it was in that game, and then in the series(es) against Wregget, Hedberg and Tugnutt. In 95, when they unleashed everything they had against the Pens those last 3 games, but couldn’t even score, and blew the 3-1 series lead.

It’s those kinds of things that made me hate the Pens. It was always just so damn unfair.

by katzistan on May 1, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

One of the things that’s fascinating to me is that this type of discussion reveals how the franchise is now old enough to have several generations of fans, each with different memories and expectations.

Used to be that most Caps fans had sort of a collective memory and similar views on the team’s prospects, and during the last several years it’s become a lot more dynamic.

by Stephen Pepper on May 1, 2009 4:51 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

your comment remains neutral, but i'll go ahead and say that i welcome the change in certain ways. too often someone forecasts doom and gloom and the next comment is "that's a caps fan for you!"

i think you nailed it in your defensive lockdown essay in the middle of the rangers series. certain fans will never let go of bad memories, and that’s not a bad thing…it’s part of being a fan. but i’d also prefer that the fanbase as a whole doesn’t remain “those guys walking to the edge of the cliff” as we were hearing from blueshirt banter. in the end, it’s up to the current team to give all living caps fans something to share…to cement a new range of expectations, so to speak.

by Natty Bumppo on May 1, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I certainly welcome the change too. I also should point out the obvious that long-time Caps fans never had anyone close to the likes of Ovechkin to cheer (at least not since the mid-1980s), and he alone goes a long way toward raising hopes against the weight of franchise history.

by Stephen Pepper on May 1, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a mid-1980s guy, I’ll go ahead and say “never” was right — the mid-80s teams never had anyone like Ovechkin. They might have been better teams due to depth, but they never had that kind of star player.

That said, it’s hard to underestimate what a Langway could do for a franchise.

by Gould Old Days on May 1, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not just the Caps, has DC ever had someone of his caliber, no matter what sport? Heady times boys, heady times.

by Sct112 on May 1, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alright, thats before my time so I’ll have to trust you. :)

by Sct112 on May 1, 2009 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pardon my intrusion...
One of the things that’s fascinating to me is that this type of discussion reveals how the franchise is now old enough to have several generations of fans, each with different memories and expectations.

Great post. Love this stuff. This part of the fan psyche fascinates me, too. And it’s interesting to watch a fan “collective” evolve over time and include the perspectives of multiple generations.

As an Isles fan, the Caps scared me in the ‘80s. Then during the ’90s, I was actually annoyed that people elsewhere seemed not to realize just how good the Caps were in the ’80s. I mean it seemed they were always right there. But because they didn’t break through during the postseason in an always-tough division and always-tough conference, that somehow got lost. A casualty of the playoff crapshoot.

I personally think all the hatred for one Pens kid is a bit overdone and mixed in with the hype machine. But one thing I know remember (way back when) about the playoffs: Nothing turns one’s irrational hatred switch on faster. Hard to imagine anyone remaining neutral about Penguins stars after this series is done!

/interloper

Lighthouse Hockey: Side effects may include Weight gain and frequent game loss.

by Dominik on May 1, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

The other thing the Caps have always been missing until now is coaching. I just don’t think the Murrays or Schoenfeld would ever have been that kind of coach. And I do think the Caps were repeatedly outcoached in those years. Ron Wilson is the best coach they have had until now. I believe in Boudreau.

by Gould Old Days on May 1, 2009 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

i’m not sure 100% if it was coaching. i think some was and some wasn’t.

I think a lot of it was horses. Who they had and who they didn’t. Lunch pail got them far, but not sure if far enough.

Also a dominant goalie could have helped at times, though there is debate about whether or not they had one.

by Chimaera on May 1, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, I’m with you. To win the Cup, you need at least three of the following:

1) Dominating Offense
2) Solid Defense
3) Awesome Goaltending
4) Brilliant Coaching
5) Fantastic Luck

Plenty of teams have lost with three or more of these, but nobody’s every won with less than three.

The Caps have never had more than two.

by Gould Old Days on May 1, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

What ever the Caps have, it isn’t the team to win 16 games this playoff season. Before the first round started, I didn’t think they’d beat the Rangers because they’d been playing so poorly in the last month of the season.

In the end, we won’t know what’s up until they play the games…maybe the Caps are snapping out of their little funk. Maybe they’re about to kick it up a notch this series.

uhh...uhh...uhh...

by hotdog88gt on May 2, 2009 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

What ever the Caps have, it isn’t the team to win 16 games this playoff season.

Wow, ye of little faith. :) Here’s to hoping you eat those words. :)

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 2, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

The way Detroit is playing, we’ll need #5 a lot to beat them.

by red army line on May 2, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

The first Caps game I attended was last year against the Pens. Pre-Bruce, so we lost rather soundly. I will never forget walking out of Verizon Center and seeing hundreds of fans on the museum steps chanting “Let’s Go Pens” at us as we went by. It was a horrible feeling and from that moment on, I just wanted us to BEAT THEM. A LOT! And that feeling has never left me. It’s only grown more intense as time has gone on. The more I have to hear about Crosby vs Ovechkin and the more I have to see their stupid cartoon logo, the more angry I get, and the more I hear those fans chanting in my head. I WANT TO SEE THEM CRY! I was actually, for a moment, rooting for the Flyers! That’s how much I want their fans to be sad. It makes me feel dirty inside but I can’t help it.

by zambonirider on May 1, 2009 4:59 PM EDT reply actions  

My wife moved here from Pittsburgh and got a job working downtown about 3 years ago…Before a Caps-Pens game she got on the metro and remarked that she was proud to see that there were more people in Pens jerseys than Caps.

I’ve been disappointed for years that DC has only been able to muster a percentage of a fan base rather than a full sell out crowd. Even the Redskins are only 50/50 when it comes to a team like the Steelers.

Ted Leonidas has brought back excitement to DC sports.

When the worst thing someone has to say about a fan base is: where were your fans 2 years ago, I consider it more of a compliment than an insult. Our product is worth cheering for, it’s turned a city of transplants Red.

Rock it loud, rock it proud DC!

by snowburnt on May 1, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Peng fans are intolerable. And I hate the team.

Zambonirider – that night sealed it for me to. Up until then, it was a toss up between Filthy and Fowl, but after that evening and watching those a**holes chant on the museum steps, I realized that my hatred for Pittsburgh fans knew no bounds. I’ve been mooned, beer tossed on me and had my children subjected to language that would make sailors go cry to their mothers – all jerks from Pittsburgh (or claiming to be). Nothing would be finer to send those idiots home for the year.

by capsrus on May 1, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whereas at the Caps-Pens game at VC in late Feb this year all throughout the game I heard “let’s go pens PENGUINS SUCK!!!” and the same with the SO win against the Flyers.

by red army line on May 1, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

great article

LOVED the lemiuxe (i couldnt care less about his spelling) video. my dad is from the steel city, but i have converted him to the good side. ive hated the pens ever since i was 8. and not just the team, the fans are just as obnoxious. but maybe thats because all i remember was MCI being full of them, and when they scored a goal it was louder than when we scored. that certainly will not be the case this series. LETS GO CAPS

by amkcaps on May 1, 2009 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I’ve hated the Pens for as long as I can remember. I remember a game I attended when I was a kid. We beat them 6-0. That was one of the greatest pleasures. However, they are not #1. Philly is on the top of my list - to me, they’ve just always have dirty, dirty players. They never play hockey.

by RedskinFan4Life on May 1, 2009 6:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Ha, that’s the same beginning! Neat.

by DrinkingPartner on May 1, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wasn´t it 8-0? New Year´s 89.

by katzistan on May 2, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have hated the Pens as long as I can remember. During my hockey formative years (mid 90’s), the Penguins brought more heartache than any other team (other than the Caps themselves). Because of the Pens, two holes found their way into the walls of my bedroom. I could go on and on about how and why I hate them, but I hate them and that’s it.

Although I am jealous as hell of the wolverine penguin on Pensblog page.

by sincitycapsfan on May 1, 2009 7:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Ha, that’s the same beginning! Cool.

by DrinkingPartner on May 1, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

damn…and his was posted way before mine. I’m a tard

by sincitycapsfan on May 1, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t stand the town, the team and probably most of the Fans.

I think it stems from their greater than thou disposition due to their beating the pants off of the Caps so many times.

It’s kinda like they’ve always been that bully that we could never top and never get beyond. Then they usually run down the team and don’t even consider us rivals making us loathe them all the more. I think some also stems from the idea that always no matter what, we would get our dreams crushed and couldn’t pull it off. That and their “stars” were players one could grow to hate. they’ve certainly continued that motif.

I don’t think most Pens fans are generally bad, and honestly, some are ok, but with the advent of the internet, few makes it feel like many should warrant the title of douchebag.

by Chimaera on May 1, 2009 7:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Most of my college hockey fans are Penguins fans, and most also don’t know anything about hockey. More than one of my Penguins fans are fans because “Zomg Crosby so Hawtttt” – all are girls. It’s a pain in the ass, them taunting with no clue about the game.

I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.

by Whiter Mage on May 1, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Penguins fans can be as bad as any

But in general terms, it’s the lack of humility – the total ignorance of their good fortune, combined with an attitude that because of this good fortune they are somehow better than most other fans. Consider:

1984: one win and three points separates the Penguins franchise, of nothing spectacular previously and headed nowhere, from Mario Lemieux and Kirk Muller. The franchise will be changed forever.

early 90’s: back to back Cups for Pittsburgh

90’s in general: we keep losing to PIttsburgh, which now features players like Larry Murphy who much like Scott Stevens (thanks Poile) left Washington for a HOF career.

late 90’s: the team was so poorly run that they had to give it to Lemieux to make good on all the money they owed him. The NHL owes Mario and he deserves it, so it’s pretty clear they are doing everything possible to make sure he gets paid.

2004 draft lottery: the Caps finally win something. We got Ovie!!! Pittsburgh gets Malkin. Wow, what a horrible punishment.

2005: well, no season…but through a specially “weighted” lottery, the Pens – with one more chance to remain in Pittsburgh, are given Crosby. We’ll take 14th, thanks, in a draft that pretty much may as well ended at 12. Lemieux will get paid. The Pens are in Pittsburgh, and so on.

So there you have it, in a nutshell. Am I jealous as shit of people that got to grow up rooting for Lemieux and CO? Hell yes. But where would we each be right now if Lemieux had arrived in Washington in October of 1985 instead of Pittsburgh. There wouldn’t be any sermons going on about bandwagons – WE would be the ones with 20 years + of hockey history.

The 2005 draft still bothers me. I am fairly sure I would be apathetic towards Crosby otherwise or just mildly dislike him. But you can’t fight City Hall. All I want is for the Pens fan base to acknowledge to the immense amount of good fortune bestowed upon them and maybe ounce in a while think about that instead of running their mouths.

Go Caps!

Russian Machine Never Breaks

by macvechkin on May 1, 2009 9:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Mike Babcock in his post-game press conference just talked about this matchup.

by red army line on May 1, 2009 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Well Fat daddyo, I agree with you on the Pens.

I’ve been a fan since 1975 and have lots of bad memories in regards to that team. I had a distaste for them starting with the fact that I hated the Pittsburgh Pirates for various indignities they had done to my favorite baseball teams over the years (St. Louis Cardinals and Baltimore Orioles).

And then, of course, the playoff series, where the Caps kept falling short. And the fact that Pens fans seemed to hate the Caps so much.

The current cast of characters on the Pens has truly fueled my hatred big time. All the trash talking going on between their guys and our guys this year has reminded me of my younger daughter’s middle school years. She had a rival (from swim team) who was a superstar student AND a superstar swimmer and this girl kept spreading trash about my daughter (and said bad things to my daughter’s friends about her.) The Pens two main stars remind me of her. One of them shares both a birthday and country of birth with her. (And has similar type hair, to add to the parallels.)

by CapsFan75 on May 2, 2009 12:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Another odd Pens memory. I remember I once purchased a Star Trek novel where there were many characters in the Security Department named for members of the Penguins (i.e. Lemieux, Jagr, Tocchet, Barrasso; etc.) Lemieux was the Deputy Security Chief.

It was written by a team of two women who came from near Pittsburgh. Of course, they hated the Caps because of Dale Hunter.

I have a dream of writing a Star Trek story and naming characters after some Caps, including Ovi. Hey, our team deserves equal time!

by CapsFan75 on May 2, 2009 12:23 AM EDT reply actions  

@redskinfan 4 life,

I see you hate Philthy more than the Pens. I must admit I’m the opposite. While I don’t like the Flyers since they are such a filthy, dirty team, I hate the Pens even worse. I can’t like a team whose players remind me of my kids’ enemies.

by CapsFan75 on May 2, 2009 12:28 AM EDT reply actions  

If I may use another sports analogy here.

I am a Redskins fan. I’ve been one since I was a kid and, as a devoted fan, hate both the Cowboys and the Eagles. But I hate them for different reasons. I hate the Eagles because of the Body Bag game and Andre “Dirty” Waters and because they have nasty, ungrateful fans.

But I hate the Cowboys because they are the Cowboys. I need no other reason.

Replace Eagles with Flyers (and Andre Waters with Ron Hextall) and Cowboys with Penguins and you have it.

When (I do not say “if”. I believe!) the Caps beat the Pens in this series it will be, for me, as momentous a sporting occasion as the 1982 NFC Championship Game (and I very much want someone to play Dexter Manley to Sidney Crosby’s Danny White)

by jimmiebjr on May 2, 2009 1:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Let me also say that I miss the Patrick Division.

by jimmiebjr on May 2, 2009 1:33 AM EDT reply actions  

I remember most of these stories from the other side—watching the Pens win series after series. Of course, for me it was a good thing and added to the Lemieux legend. The Caps seemed to be a team that we always worried about, but somehow fate ran its course.

See you all tomorrow at the Verizon!

by docciavelli on May 2, 2009 2:47 AM EDT reply actions  

Hey JP?

Are you aware that this post is linked on the front page of nhl.com?

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri

by gotsparkly on May 2, 2009 8:32 AM EDT reply actions  

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