"The only defenceman for the Washington Capitals is [Mike] Green and and he should win the Norris because he has no help on the blueline. Milan Jurcina is the second highest scoring defenceman on the Capitals with 14 points and the Bruins gave him away. Tom Poti is the third highest scoring defenceman with 13 points. Green is +24 on a team without a goaltender."
- TSN.ca's Keith Jones (h/t Peerless)
about 3 years ago
J.P.
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Green is +24 on a team without a goaltender
Jesus Christ. I don’t know what to say.
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by CapitalsKremlin on Apr 6, 2009 10:48 AM EDT reply actions
Jones still isn’t giving up on the “Theo sucks” meme, but whatever makes him support Green is okay by me. I’m not really sure what his point is in terms of Green being “the only defenseman” – you’d think this might give him even more assist opportunities. Sometimes I wonder if TSN has the same “say something controversial” rule for its talking heads that ESPN does.
Theodore needs to look good in the playoffs to shut people up, end of story. And personally, I don’t think that motivation is a bad thing.
And personally, I don’t think that motivation is a bad thing.
nor do I and I have to think Theo is keeping a log of all this smack. Is he the greatest goalie in the league? no, he isn’t. he’d probably even admit that. Can he turn it on and make saves when he has to? yes he definitely can.
really if you watch the games, he matches the intensity of the guys in front of him. when they are on, he usually is as well.
He’s pretty amazing one-on-one also, he seems to relish the opportunities when a single guy makes a break away. Don’t know the stats, but it’s one-on-one he seems to make the save (except for few shoot out goals) and he seems really confident.
When I saw Neuvirth in the same role, it looked like he soiled himself.
I noticed that, too. He didn’t do that in the first Tampa game he played, though. Maybe it was just the one game.
Hopefully he’ll get over that. I actually like Neuvirth.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I think that falls in line with his career shootout stats. 3rd among active goalies w/15 shootout decisions @ .790 SV%. For all his faults, he’s a damn fine 1-on-1 goalie.
Totally agree on that point. His focus seems to drift during game play, but when its one on one he definitely seem to be completely focused.
And he’s what, 20?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I think they’re talking about Theo here, not Neuvirth.
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Not to harp on our previous disagreement vis-a-vis Neuvy or Varlamov, but Neuvy looks like a deer in headlights when shooters come in on him 1-on-1. And Varly isn’t Mr Dependability either, but at least he looks to challenge them instead of standing there.
Lecavalier, breakaway, glove save. He’ll develop, but Neuvy stoning Vinny will stick in my mind for some time.
I'm so sick and tired of the refs explaining the calls like this is the NFL.
Neurvith has has played in 5…FIVE…NHL games and started 3. I think maybe you’re being overly judgmental on a 21 goalie with that experience.
I don’t think it’s overly judgmental to say the kid has looked like a deer in headlights on breakaways – he has.
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I’m so sick of all these analysts talking shit about this team that is largely baseless, I’m so ready for the playoffs to start where the caps can (hopefully) start to show these [people] wrong.
Dude, let ‘em. Let these guys believe their own hype. Let ’em mislead the other teams. Won’t that make a smackdown all the sweeter?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
Not for nothing but...
I don’t think any teams are mislead by Keith Jones or any other outside analyst. For instance, I saw one of the rotating talking heads on “NHL on the Fly” talk about how the in the playoffs opposing teams will be able to stop the Caps because they often use the rink long pass for their breakouts. Last night the same guy talked about how good the Detroit Red Wings are because…you guessed it…they often use the ring long pass for their transitional break outs.
I hate Pittsburgh. And the Pens too.
How is Keith Jones on both TSN and Versus when he repeatedly demonstrates (on both) that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about? That he and Mike Milbury have TV careers is a befuddlement.
Consider: Don Cherry has one.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
At least Don Cherry is an iconic figure to some as coach. Mike Milbury is an iconic figure for failure, as a GM and tv host.
Capitals Kremlin the second line center of the Caps blogosphere.
by CapitalsKremlin on Apr 6, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes. If Don Cherry has to wear those suits to stay on TV, let’s at least make Milbury wear silly, sequined shoes on TV. Two of them, that is.
Did anyone see on the Simpsons last night during the beginning when Homer was watching hockey and one of the after game analyst had a bright green suit on?
Ahem...

Capitals Kremlin the second line center of the Caps blogosphere.
by CapitalsKremlin on Apr 6, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
crap, went missing.
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by CapitalsKremlin on Apr 6, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Keith Jones is an anyalsyt for the Flyers games. He should know about a team not having a goaltender.
What a joke!
He has got to be kidding!! He’s talking about a defenceman in offensive terms. Not only is he insulting a really good goalie, but he’s insulting guys like Schultz, who isn’t great in offensive terms but he actually holds up his end in terms of the D job description. Boy, that makes me surly.
"For reason, ruling alone, is a force confining; and passion, unattended, is a flame that burns to its own destruction.
Therefore let your soul exalt your reason to the height of passion; that it may sing; " - The Prophet
One defenseman and no goaltender yet they’re currently second in the East. What the hell is wrong with everyone other than Boston?
The very same team that we got 7 points in our season series, but yea, no goaltender or defense helped with those contests.
Do people seriously get upset about this stuff? Who cares? He’s a commentator – he’s paid to say this shit. Why does it matter what he thinks?
I can’t stop eating. I eat because I’m unhappy, and I’m unhappy because I eat. It’s a vicious cycle. Now, if you’ll excuse me, there’s someone I’d like to get in touch with and forgive… meself.
Sorry. I farted. It’s a long road ahead.
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regarding the Calder, Jones had this to say:
I changed my mind from Steve Mason to Bobby Ryan over the weekend. Without Ryan’s strong offensive production this year, the Ducks would not be heading to the playoffs.
And CBL was a postseason shoe in without Mason?
Next.
from the house that Red Jesus built
I can’t say that I disagree with him. He’s pretty spot on. We’ve got a mediocre goalie and I don’t think many teams in NHL would be in any hurry to sign Mo, Shultz, Poti, Pothier, Erskine, or Juice.
Question: whose D in the East would you rather have?
Follow-up question: who has given up more goals this season, the Caps or Detroit? Answer.
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Only four teams in the entire easter conference (hint: the bottom dwellers) have more goals against for the season than the Caps. Granted I’m sure it has more to do with Bruce’s system than the personnel on our defense but Keith Jones is right about how valuable Mike Green is to this team. He is certainly our most valuable player not named Alex.
I’d take Boston, NJ, and Rags, from a purely defensive perspective. Offensive wise Greenie alone probably is better than 3/4 of teams in the league.
I’d take a ton of goalies over Three-or-more.
I’m just looking at his comment from an unbiased perspective. Heck I complain about our blueline more than he does.
I’m assuming you aren’t looking at cap numbers if you are even considering the Rags’ defense. The only two teams in the east I would trade D with are FLA and BOS. NJD has an underwhelming D corps and I think people still give them the benefit of historical reputation.
Havlid alone is better than anyone but Green. Trust me it don’t take much too overwhelm me compared to our blueline. Hell Hal Gill might even make me choose the Flightless Foiwl over the Caps. Ok, maybe not. :-)
First off, Havelid isn’t even the best dman on NJD, that is Martin. Second, you can’t just compare one dman to other dmen, because we are looking at a unit. Otherwise we could say that Green is hands down better than any dman NJD has (and better than all but 2 of their forwards) and then draw conclusions. NJD dresses: Martin, Havelid, Odouya, Salvador, White, and Mottau with Greene generally the 7 man. There is very very little mobility in that corps, and no real top end talent. I’d say Martin is at best a good 2 man and the rest of them are best suited to play the 4 spot or below. Yeah, we have guys playing out of their spots but at least we have a true 1, then 2-3 guys that are 3-4s, then a few guys that are 5-7s. I think our talent is better on the top end, deeper, and more spread out to address the needs of a full D corps.
List the goalies who have been better than Theodore since XMas.
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Theo’s save percentage is just barely over .901 even with his improved play since late December. I don’t understand why everyone defends the guy besides the fact he’s a Cap.
Thomas
Ward
Mason
Khabby
Brodeur
Clemensen
Hiller
Rolo
Renne
So he’s a top 10 G since XMas, and yet thrown under the bus. Sweet.
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Dec. 23, the Theo we thought we had signed appeared. Since then he’s been (as JP said) a top 10 goalie. He’s making key saves, he’s not blowing games, he’s been what caps fans have wanted.
Frankly it’s a bit hard to resuscitate a SV% when you spend half the season below .900 and then all of a sudden start turning in +.900 numbers.
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by CapitalsKremlin on Apr 6, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
As for Detroit vs Caps. Osgood has been awful this season. I mean downright brutal. Makes Three-or-more look like Dryden. Conklin has been Theo like. Good at times not so good at others. Not who I’d compare my team defensively. It’s the reason I expect the Sharks to beat them if they both make it to the WC finals.
I think that the team has an issue in that guys have been playing most of the season a slot above where they should be depth chart wise. Poti seems to be the de facto number two, but his production isn’t up to that standard. Schultz has been the clear cut number three most of the year, and he’s probably a quality second pairing guy but not good enough to be a clear number three. Erskine and Jurcina are solid as sixth/seventh defensemen but they’ve been playing almost every night.
However, I have no doubt that if all of the Capitals defensemen were to become free agents, they would be signed by NHL teams rather quickly and most would have more than one offer.
I highly doubt they’d be signed quickly and maybe Mo would get mutltiple offers based on last season, but I just don’t see a huge markets for Caps D guys. However, I have no doubt Don waddell would sign a couple of them.
Pothier is a question mark because of his injury. Other than that, people would want them. Morrisonn’s a legit, steady defenseman, Schultz is 23 and has a very good track record at the NHL level, Poti’s had a solid career and people would look at him based on that, Jurcina still probably has upside, hits, has a wicked shot, and a projectable body.
Frankly, I think if you’re looking at the Capitals defense and thinking other team around the league wouldn’t be interested in them I think you’re overestimating the quality of the average NHL defenseman. Look around the league: how many teams have seven guys who are better than everyone on the Capitals? I’d wager no more than three, and the number probably isn’t that high. Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if it were zero.
Look I agree on Mo when he comes to play I’d take him on any team in the league. He just needs to not have consistency issues. I am a huge fan of Poti’s back to his days in Edmonton, but the fact is he’s been a mess this year. Shultz, ugh. The Sarge has a freakin rabbit’s foot when it comes to being on the ice at the right time. I’m nowhere near convinced he’s a keeper. Pothier had one good year with the Sens on a team that had Redden and Chara and he got played situationally which helped as well. I think in many ways he’d get less interest than almost anyone else due to concussion, but also due to his play. I’ve never seen him as more than a PP specialist whose minutes you want to limit. Erskine and Juice are fill-in parts.
I will agree looking at NHL rosters that there is a lack of depth at defense and Caps have plenty of depth. The question is does depth = talent. I say no.
If Mo and Poti were playing up to their potential this season then Jones comments might be a bit off however they haven’t. This team’s D gives up way to many easy goals that can’t be blamed on the goalie. The next time someone thinks twice about rampaging into our crease will be the first time.
Just because we have depth doesn’t mean its good.
Right, but I wasn’t disputing that the team could stand to have another top 2 or top 4 guy – like I said, I think the team has been slotting guys one run higher on the depth chart than they would be ideally. My point was that it’s unfair to say that very few teams form around the league would have interest in the defenseman other than Green because the reality is that most team could benefit from having one of the guys.
Shultz, ugh. The Sarge has a freakin rabbit’s foot when it comes to being on the ice at the right time. I’m nowhere near convinced he’s a keeper.
Plus-minus is a stat with a very limited application, but Schultz has been tied for first, first, and second in plus-minus among defensemen in the three seasons he’s been in the NHL. If that’s luck, he should just retire from the NHL and play the lottery for a living. Dude’s also 6’6’’, already a solid NHL defenseman at barely 23, kills penalties, doesn’t make many mistakes. The only knocks on him are that he’s thin (which he mitigates well and will change as he gets older) and that he’s not a great skater (which is almost a give for a guy his size). He’s a guy it’d be easy to get frustrated with and give up on, only to regret. McPhee and his staff are too smart to let than happen.
Plus-minus is a stat with a very limited application, but Schultz has been tied for first, first, and second in plus-minus among defensemen in the three seasons he’s been in the NHL.
I agree completely. I think +/- can be very misleading but at some point you have to acknowledge that it means something (I really only pay attention to it on the extremes). The same thing applies with AO and GWG. GWG can often be a thing of chance, but when you are consistently among the league leaders in GWG then you probably aren’t relying on scoring the 2nd goal of a 7-1 beat down.
i wonder if jones tries to be a prick or if it just comes naturally. let me get this straight…we have no defense aside from green, but in addition to that, we have no goalie. so if we have no defense (not true), wouldn’t that explain “sub-vezina” stats from the goalie? jonesy hit the daily double on this one…being stupid and obnoxious all in one sentence!
His point about the D, once you get past all the bile, isn’t necessarily a bad one. Green is the only Dman that produces, and his support among the D-corpse is far below that of Chara (Wideman) or Lidstrom (Rafalski).
The goaltender comment makes no sense though. Our goaltending is unquestionably better than Detroit’s (well, everyone’s is, except maybe Colorado), so that favors Lidstrom, not Green, if it’s a point he wants to make.
He’s right about the depth of offense on D. HOWEVER COMMA if a team has scored the second most goals in the entire NHL, who the hell cares where the scoring comes from??? Yes Green is the only D that produces consistently, so? What’s the point? Is that it, is he done after that? Not to mention, if Keith Jones could figure this out, then I’m pretty sure most of the coaches in the league have figured it out, doesn’t seem to effect the 48 wins we’ve accumulated.
That’s true. But in the confines of the Norris discussion it means something. Green stands alone in terms of defensive production on this team, and he has by far the weakest supporting cast in that sense. Defensively I don’t know if he has the weakest supporting cast (Detroit’s D kinda sucks this year) so it doesn’t mean as much, but it’s there.
The fact is Green gets less support from a strong D partner (or someone else to eat the minutes as well) than Lidstrom and Rafalski do, and that works in his favor for the award.
So yeah, Jones is an idiot, but he still brought up a valid consideration in his own way.
I think you need at least decent defense in the playoffs. Scoring tends to go down. Most teams that win championships have at least average defensive play in all sports. Are there exceptions, of course there are (Kurt Warner’s Rams, Mario’s Pens), but most of the time you need solid defensive play.
The issue for me is consistency, besides Green we don’t get it from the other guys night in and night out. Come playoff time we will need it.
Schultz is pretty consistent, Erskine has been much better lately, as has ShaMo. I’ve been pretty impressed with Pothier since his return, especially since he’s become more acclimated to the speed again. Our D is less consistent than some, absolutely, but our offense is more consistent than most. That’s pretty much Bruce’s system. Let’s be real here; the Pens and Wings don’t exactly play “defensive” hockey, but they seemed to do okay last year.
I don’t think you can pigeonhole DET from last year. Do they play defensive hockey? No, they play “puck possession” hockey. In order to play “puck possession” hockey, you need to be able to actually take the puck back when you lose it. They were responsible defensively, had 2 Selke candidates, the Norris winner, as well as Raflaski, Kronwall, Stuart, Lilja, Lebda, Quincey, and Chelios all able to play good hockey for them. I’d say that’s the makings of a pretty solid defensive squad.
by Rob Parker on Apr 6, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
For depth purposes absolutely. But I’ll take the Caps chances with just Green as the main offensive threat from the blue line. Even though I really, really, really wish the backliners would take more shots from the point. It seems that at times they are almost afraid to just let it rip and let the rebound go where it may.
I had Chara winning the Norris over Green (I would not — blasphemy though it might be, have Lidstrom as a finalist this year). But Mirtle makes quite a case for Green.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I think #30 sealed the deal for him, especially if Chara doesn’t get to #20. And no, it’s not an offense-only award, but when certain numbers pop as much as Green’s do, they’re hard to ignore, especially when Green’s defensive bona fides are good as well.
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Somehow this team has managed to enter the last week of the season with a good shot at 50 wins. Amazing, considering how bad their D and goalie are.
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That fact that Caps are number 2 in the East with as many question marks as they have just tells you the amount of talent offensively this team has. Heck the defense is even good when they show up and play focused. Same goes for our goalie. If everyone plays focused come playoff time this team will scare the hell out of anyone they play and most likely make a trip to the Cup Finals. The question is will they be focused for 60 minutes for up to 28 games.
That is the million dollar question. But the fact that we can say this:
If everyone plays focused come playoff time this team will scare the hell out of anyone they play and most likely make a trip to the Cup Finals.
should suggest, perhaps, that the Caps have a pretty good roster and a better one than all but a handful of teams. Defensemen included.
It’s like “potential” its worthless until it stops being potential and becomes reality. Until then its just possibility. I don’t deny the possibility exists but its certainly no foregone conclusion.
I think my point was more that the potential here isn’t that the team can be dominant/scary as hell. We know they can be and have seen it (consistently against top teams, I might add). The question here in terms of potential is if they can do that for 60 minutes a night over up to 28 games in the playoffs.
What I am trying to say is that not a lot of teams can look at their squad and say that. At best, they’re looking at the potential of being dominant, not just needing to take the final step and be that way all the time to win a Cup. I am pointing this out just because I think there’s a tendency among Caps fans (who are hungry to get the playoffs started and understandably frustrated by poor efforts) to underrate this team across the board when it comes to things like depth and the relative quality of the roster. The team went from being abysmal to very, very good in a hurry, and I think the lack of an interim, baby-step period there has led to some under-appreciation of how far they’ve come and how good they are.
In the scheme of things, and without any sarcasm, it almost is. It’s a testament to the coaching (which we constantly second guess) and the team play. That’s not to say the D is bad or the goalies are inadequate, but when you have this much success with such inexperience on D and inconsistency in goal (not just among one goalie, but playing with 4 different goals with very different styles and still having each get some wins) it says something.
To paraphrase one of my favorite movies (particularly fitting today, I should say)…
Boudreau: You guys. You lollygag the the puck in your own end. You lollygag the puck through the neutral zone. You lollygag around the crease. You know what that makes you? Evason!
Evason: Lollygaggers!
Boudreau: Lollygaggers. What’s our record, boy?
Evason: 48-23-8.
Boudreau: 48-23-8! How did we get there?
Evason: It’s a miracle.
Boudreau: It’s a miracle!
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Didn’t they do that last year, too?
Boudreau: Ovechkin had 65 goals.
Evason: New team record!
Boudreau: Had 446 shots on goal.
Evason: Another new…team…record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, Slapshot twice…
Boudreau: Also new team records! But, Dean, this kid’s got some serious shit.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I know you don’t like the guy and aren’t sold on him being a keeper, but Schultz deserves a proper spelling of his surname, no?
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Touhe.
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by J.P. on Apr 6, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Guess we're about to get answers ....
… to the goaltending issue, or at least the backup portion of it.
Looks like how he does will determine whether we go with Johnny when he’s healthy or Varlamov.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
No matter what happens in Atlanta, I’d like Varlamov to spend the playoffs in Hershey playing and trying to win a championship with the Bears. As long as Theo is healthy, nobody else is going to play in net. I don’t see any value in keeping Varlamov up if he ain’t gonna play.
Johnny should be the playoff backup if he’s healthy. If Theo gets hurt in a game, Johnny can finish out that game and the team can bring up Varlamov to start the next game if they want. But one way or another, this team’s playoff hopes are in Theo’s hands this year.
by Gould Old Days on Apr 6, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I think these are exactly my feelings on the #2 G situation – Johnny as relief pitcher, Varly as emergency starter.
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Makes sense to me. Johnny would probably be better in a hold-the-fort situation. Varlamov is better as a hail-mary option.
It’s similar to the ‘Skins a couple of years ago when Brunnel (ugh) was the starter and Gibbs said that if he got hurt during a game, Collins (or was it Hasselbeck?) would relieve him, but that if he couldn’t go the following week, Campbell would get the start.
Given NFL practice schedules, reps with the first team, etc., the analogy isn’t perfect, but it’s similar in that I think Varly has the higher “upside” potential, but there’s no need to have hiim just riding the pine in the NHL playoffs if Johnny can do that.
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Agree. I’d rather see Johnny backing Theodore and a Varlamov/Neuvirth tandem for the Bears. After not getting to play last year, Johnny deserves a shot, and better to get Varlamov the experience, like you said.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
I think that is the preferred scenario for everyone – front office, coaching staff, team, fans. The good thing is even if Johnny isn’t ready for the start of the playoffs I have no worries about the backup position. After what I’ve seen this year I have confidence in Varly or Neuvirth if they are called upon.
I pray that neither Johnny or Varlamov get a shot in the playoffs. If they do, the team will probably be close to needing life support…
You are saying Theo is such an outstanding talent that he can’t be replaced without the team falling apart??? This isn’t Hasek, Roy, or Dryden we are talking about. Hell at worst this would be like Al Jensen replacing Pat Riggin. The Caps have not won the games they have this season because Three-or-More has been standing on his head.
The name calling gets more clever by the comment.
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You are saying Theo is such an outstanding talent that he can’t be replaced without the team falling apart???
Have you ever noticed that when someone prefaces something with “You are saying,” typically the next thing you hear has only a tenuous connection to what was actually said to begin with? The three question marks don’t help.
What I’m saying is actually pretty simple. Theo is the Caps’ guy. There is no goalie controversy here — Theo has played well enough that he is the clear #1. Teams rarely bench their #1 goalie in the playoffs unless there is a problem (either injury or poor play). That’s why I said, “As long as Theo is healthy, nobody else is going to play in net.”
Now, if Theo starts to play poorly, the Caps are in a bad situation no matter what. That’s why I said “this team’s playoff hopes are in Theo’s hands this year.” So yes, if Theo is healthy and he’s being replaced, then the team is probably falling apart. Not because he’s truly great, but simply because they’re depending a great deal on him.
See? Theo doesn’t have to be Dryden for him to be important to the team, or for a healthy Brent Johnson to be a better game-day backup for Theo than Semyon Varlamov, which was all I was really saying.
by Gould Old Days on Apr 8, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, SOMEBODY’S still bitter about being traded!
I have as many wins in a Capitals uniform as Michael Belhumeur does.
Actually, Jones was happy to be traded, his words to the media about leaving Washington was that “a piano had been lifted from his back”. He thought life would be better in Colorado. In retrospect, the trade was a good one for the Caps in that they go Curtis Leschysin and Chris Simon from the Avs, and after 2 games they turn Leschysin into second line center/face-off specialist Andrei Nikolishin.
I think Poile did a good job in getting a reasonably tough (albeit a headcase) power forward and a 2nd line center for Jones…he sure as hell wasn’t worth that much.
Let's go Caps!
by MikeL-Pivonka on Apr 7, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions




































