Caps sign Finley
"The Washington Capitals have signed defenseman Joe Finley to a two-year entry-level contract beginning next season, vice president and general manager George McPhee announced today. In keeping with club policy terms of the deal were not disclosed." - Press Release
7 months ago
J.P.
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The rest of the release:
Finley, 21, will join the Hershey Bears of the American Hockey League (AHL) on Monday.
Finley skated in 27 games for the University of North Dakota this year and recorded two goals and eight assists. He missed 16 games with an injury.
The 6’7", 240-pound Edina, Minn., native was a four-time letter winner for North Dakota and helped the Fighting Sioux advance to the Frozen Four in each of his first three years of college. He recorded 35 points (seven goals, 28 assists) in 154 career games and led the team in plus/minus during his sophomore and junior years. He was named to the All-WCHA Academic Team three times.
He played one season with the Sioux Falls Stampede of the United States Hockey League before college and recorded 13 points (three goals, 10 assists) and 181 penalty minutes in 55 games.
Finley was Washington’s first-round choice, 27th overall, in the 2005 NHL Entry Draft.
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by J.P. on Apr 2, 2009 3:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How does this impact things for his time in Hershey?
by Stephen Pepper on Apr 2, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guess we’ll find out…
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by J.P. on Apr 2, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the contract starts next season, how does he join Hershey now?
by katzistan on Apr 2, 2009 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Amateur Tryout (ATO)
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by J.P. on Apr 2, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which means what? He plays for free for them now?
by katzistan on Apr 2, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it’s unpaid, I think there’s some small stipend involved, but it means he can play for Hershey for the rest of the season and the playoffs.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kid is freaking huge. 6’7, beats out Steckel for tallest Cap if he were to make the team.
Capitals Kremlin the second line center of the Caps blogosphere.
by CapitalsKremlin on Apr 2, 2009 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that won’t be the only comparison to Schultz for the kid, I’m afarid.
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Apr 2, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not. If anything I think Finley’s going to wind up making people appreciate Schultz more.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’ll probably go both ways. People will watch Finley and realize Schultz’s footwork isn’t the most terrible thing in the world. They’ll also watch Finley and wish that Schultz had 10% of his aggression. Ultimately I see constant comparisons between two players that play entirely different styles of hockey solely because they share a similar frame.
by Fehr and Balanced on Apr 2, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ultimately I see constant comparisons between two players that play entirely different styles of hockey solely because they share a similar frame.
Rec’d for this.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it any different than constant comparisons between two players that play entirely different styles of hockey solely because they were #1 picks in consecutive years and shared a rookie season?
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by J.P. on Apr 2, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s right, but only an inch.
Capitals Kremlin the second line center of the Caps blogosphere.
by CapitalsKremlin on Apr 2, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is also how much taller than Schultz Finley is.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they play like their size, it’s going be great.
Capitals Kremlin the second line center of the Caps blogosphere.
by CapitalsKremlin on Apr 2, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I know, Finley definitely plays his size, although I think Schultz does too because really he’s tall but he’s not all that thick.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tall, a little gawky, but he is a space eater with his wingspan, and generally effective.
by fat_daddyo on Apr 2, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he does a great job with his reach and that long stick.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any idea why it is just a 2 year deal? Aren’t the entry contracts usually 3 years?
by Fehr and Balanced on Apr 2, 2009 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
An entry K can be one, two or three years.
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by J.P. on Apr 2, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I was just wondering on the motivation. It seems like most of the top prospects automatically get 3 years. The shorter ones normally go to undrafted guys. How many other first round picks can you think of not getting the 3 year entry deal?
by Fehr and Balanced on Apr 2, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"K"?
Just a guess, but are you a lawyer?
by fat_daddyo on Apr 2, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
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by J.P. on Apr 2, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From someone smarter (or at least more knowledgeable) than I:
[T]he team doesn’t have a choice if the player meets the [Entry Level Contract] rules the length is based on age as of a certain date (IIRC, sept 15). 3 year ELC up to the age of 21. 2 years for 22 and 23yos and 1 year for 24yo. It is also the reason NCAA FA Gilroy won’t be subject to the ELC rule since he will be 25yo in July.
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by J.P. on Apr 2, 2009 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I LOVE the volume approach to D-men – much like I love the volume approach to pitchers. Get as many of those bad boys into the system as possible, and see which ones pan out. Can’t have too many big, strong kids on the blue line for my taste.
Anyone got a quick scouting report on this kid? What is his upside and how does he project?
by fat_daddyo on Apr 2, 2009 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, and I think McPhee is doing the same thing with goalies.
FWIW, here’s hockeysfuture.com’s scouting report:
In addition to his enormous frame, Finley has tremendous focus and work ethic. He has steadily improved his overall game (in particular his puck handling and skating) leading into college. Finley is a surprisingly good skater for a 6’7 player. He is very agile, and has a heavy shot, although he rarely gets to use it.
Joe Finley has committed to the University of North Dakota for his senior where he’ll hone his defensive play to match his mean streak and size. If he can keep up with the speed of the NHL, he could be a heck of an enforcer on
the blue line who instills fear in even the league’s top power forwards.
From what I know of him I see Finley’s ceiling as being a stay at home 4-5 defenseman, maybe a poor man’s Hal Gill. Mostly likely I think he turns into a third pairing guy with value as long as his minutes and matchups are managed.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. Got the hockeyfutures.com site bookmarked.
Third pairing guys who are effective – particularly if they are big and a trial to play against – have a place on any team and in any organization.
Agree with you about the goalies, btw, and do like the approach for the position as well.
by fat_daddyo on Apr 2, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only saw him play the one game against UNH, so this should be taken with a grain of salt but… The coaches in Hershey (and maybe South Carolina) have their work cut out for them here. From what I saw, his foot speed is atrocious and he doesn’t make up for it either through anticipatory positioning or taking good angles. If he catches a forward, they’re in trouble, but that’s a HUGE if. (I see that Sct112 just compared him to Jurcina. Imagine Jurcina without the ability to close the gap quickly for a bodycheck and you’re there.) Also, once he managed to separate an opponent from the puck, he seemed at a loss for what to do with it, coughing up repeated turnovers in his own end. He makes Schultz and Erskine look like puckhandling wizards. (Btw, I’m neither joking, nor exagerrating – he was that bad.) DMG’s comparison to Hal Gill was appropriate; when he gets the puck the it’s getting dumped out off the boards, regardless of the situation.
People always say, “you can’t teach size,” so I guess Joe’s got that. After watching him play, I see Sasha Pokulok version 2.0. He looks like he’ll develop into a decent AHL defenseman who can occasionally fill in as an injury call-up. In other words, i wouldn’t go penciling him into the Caps roster any time soon.
Again, I caveat this by saying that I only watched him play the one game. However, my observations seem to agree with what scouts have been writing about him so. . . there’s that.
by D'ohboy on Apr 2, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Finley will be a lot quicker as a pro than in college. While watching him, I got the impression he spent a lot of time going at 3/4 speed because he was playing so many minutes for the Fighting Sioux all season. If he’s only asked to play 15-18 as a pro, as opposed to 25-30 as a college player, he should start moving a little quicker.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tried to find a box score from that game with playing time, but I couldn’t. From my recollection, Finley did not play an inordinate amount and it seemed as though UND was rolling over their defensemen pretty regularly. Furthermore, he didn’t play at all on the power play.
From what I saw, his top speed is what you were seeing. He just doesn’t go any faster.
by D'ohboy on Apr 2, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Contract Limit
I know that the team has a 50-contract limit under the CBA, and we’re not far from it this year with the signing of Staffan Kronwall. While I understand that the three new contracts we’ve signed in the last week don’t kick in until next year, do these contract signings hold any implications for free agency this coming year like I think they do?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Apr 2, 2009 5:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would say that’s doubtful. The team has a lot of guys whose contracts are up. At the NHL level there’s Johnson, Fedorov, Brash, and Kozlov, and in the minors there’s Helmer, Laing, Pokuluk, Pinizotto, Mink, Joudrey, Machesney, Giroux, and probably a couple other guys as well.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beat me to it. See my list below.
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by J.P. on Apr 2, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to argue with you on that point.
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by J.P. on Apr 2, 2009 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not at the NHL level. The team has the following contracts throughout the organization expiring after this season:
NHL:
Fedorov
Kozlov
Brashear
Fehr
Gordon
Morrisonn
Schultz
Jurcina
Johnson
Other:
Bourque
Giroux
Joudrey
Laing
Mink
Morin
Pinizotto
Wilson
Collins
Helmer
Kronwall
Lepisto
Pokulok
Sloan
Machesney
And they’ve added for next year Holtby, Delly, Finley, Carlson, Bruess and Miskovic.
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by J.P. on Apr 2, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So is it 50 at the NHL level or 50 period? I’m sorry for the stupid questions, but I’m just not clear on how this works.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Apr 2, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fifty period. You can only have 23 guys on the NHL active roster.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what I thought. So does that suggest that we may be active traders, or may be letting a lot of those guys go?
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Apr 2, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would imagine Brashear and Fedorov have very slim chances of being back and that a lot of AHL/ECHL guys (Pinizotto, Pokulok, Morin, Helmer, Joudrey, Laing, Machesney, etc) will be let go.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just me guessing here, but here’s what I project:
From JP’s list,
1 of Kozlov/Fedorov stays, the other goes.
Brashear – out
Johnson – out
Morrisonn – out
Jurchina – probably stays, depending on salary requirements
Schultz, Gordo, and Fehr stay.
Among the lower-tier guys, I would expect a lot of them to be gone, especially the older ones.
by fat_daddyo on Apr 2, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure Mo will be gone – depending on the salary/length, he might be worth keeping around. Agreed otherwise, though.
by grapejoos on Apr 2, 2009 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He won’t be making less than he’s already making, and he’s already making too much. I bet he gets traded at the draft, personally.
by brs03 on Apr 2, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not certain that I agree that he’s already making too much, but the first part is definitely true and with more contracts on the horizon, that’s probably enough to end his time in DC. Still, I think he’s easily a top 6 guy.
by grapejoos on Apr 2, 2009 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, but with Alzner, Carlson, and a couple of others in the wings, we can’t afford him.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Apr 2, 2009 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To make matters worse, it’s not as though we’re talking about some fresh-out-of-junior hockey 19-20 year old. He turns 22 this summer. Considering the fact that he’s only one calendar year (and change) younger than Schultz, he’s got a TON of development time to make up before he’s ready.
by D'ohboy on Apr 2, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Still 22 isn’t all that old for a defenseman his size.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exhibit A: Schultz, Jeff.
"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees." - Delores Ibarruri
by gotsparkly on Apr 2, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t speak as well to the development of these guys, but I watched Braydon Coburn (another tall, gangly d-man) play junior hockey for several years. Every time I would see him play, he seemed awkward and out of sorts, just like you’d expect out of someone who was 17-19 and had suddenly just grown to 6-5. However, despite his gangly-ness, you could see that he was a good player. For stretches, he would be one of the best players on the ice. Then, he went to the NHL and sucked so hard that he couldn’t stick IN ATLANTA. Granted, he’s a good NHL defenseman now, but my point is, even back then, I (and obviously NHL scouts) could see something in Coburn. He had an ability to skate and see the ice as well as make plays. I’m guessing that the same thing applies to guys like Pronger, Chara and Schultz. I just didn’t see any of that with Finley. Case in point: he was on the ice for 5/6 goals against and at least two were direct results of his turnovers. Yikes.
by D'ohboy on Apr 2, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but my point is, even back then, I (and obviously NHL scouts) could see something in Coburn. bq.
I’ve never seen Big Joe play, but I would reckon’ that a number of NHL scouts saw something in him as well. Otherwise he wouldn’t have been drafted in the first round. I mean let’s be real here, Pronger and Chara still can’t skate for shit, but they play the angles and use their size effectively. Those are things that can be taught. (Positioning and the like, not size)
by wittcap79 on Apr 2, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think what NHL scouts saw was his size. They thought, “if he can just figure out how to use that size, we’d have another Chara.” I think the Chara comparison is probably the most apt. He was really rough until he went to Ottawa. That was after his 4th year in the league and he was 24. Maybe we just have to give Finley a few years. I was just hoping/expecting to see a guy who looked like a men among boys, and instead I saw a guy who looked like one of the worst players on the ice. Still, it’s just one game. My expectations were probably too high and therefore my disappointment was equally extreme.
As for Pronger, I’m not sure what you’re talking about. For his size, Pronger is a good skater, and the guy put up 77 points in 61 games his second season in Juniors, (with 15/25/40!!! in 21 playoff games), so it’s not as though he was a total oaf when he was younger.
by D'ohboy on Apr 2, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pronger is an okay skater. And I’m not to up to date on his junior stats.
by wittcap79 on Apr 3, 2009 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pronger is not a good analogy. Pronger was a blue chip prospect from the start and went right into the NHL after the draft. Chara was a project player and I think Finley is the same, though I doubt his upside is that high. I think you are also vastly underestimating Pronger’s skating. It may not be pretty but he really covers ice well and is a master at efficiently using his energy.
by Fehr and Balanced on Apr 3, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We should hope so. If Schultz makes the kinds of strides other big defensemen have at ages 23-26, he’ll be a quality shutdown pairing guy.
by David M. Getz on Apr 2, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think I made my point very well, so I’ll try again: Finley right now is WAAAAAAAAAAY behind where Schultz was last year at the same age. Not even close. Again, I’m only basing that off one game, but still. Schultz was a decent NHL defenseman last year. I think Finley would get skated around like a pylon right now in the AHL.
by D'ohboy on Apr 2, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m only basing that off one game, but still.
You’ve based every comment in this thread off that one game. Isn’t it possible you just happened to see him on an off day? I think your views have been unnecessarily harsh.
by Scott in Shaw on Apr 2, 2009 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s totally possible, which is why I mentioned several times that it was one game. However, given that what I saw with my eyes agreed with the existing scouting reports, I’m (personally) less willing to write them off. Just so you don’t think I’m biased, I didn’t sit around on a Saturday watching two random college hockey teams (after waiting through what seemed like an eternity of LAX) because I wanted to watch Finley fail (or DeSimone for that matter). If anything, I was biased the OTHER way. After a couple of goals against UND where he was on the ice, I was trying to convince myself of how they might not be his fault – that’s how bad I wanted to see him succeed.
Ultimately, after watching five of UNH’s six goals get scored while Finley was on the ice, I kind of gave up trying to defend him in my head. He may be a much better player than he showed that day. I sure as shit hope that’s the case. All I know is what I saw, and what I saw led me to the conclusion that’s he’s a very, very long ways from the NHL. On the other hand, there’s a reason why good scouts don’t ever base their reports on one game. . .
by D'ohboy on Apr 2, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Joe Finley but he looked terrible against BC in the finals last year too. His whole team looked bad, though, so I didn’t want to read too much into it. I’ve seen some other games where he looked much better (I used to get the Fox sports channel that covers the Gophers) but I’m still working with a limited sample size. We are just going to have to wait and see but his +/- numbers suggest he was pretty consistently solid for UND.
by Fehr and Balanced on Apr 3, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you’ve made your point just fine. And you’re correct. But you’re too focused on age, and you have to consider that Schultz’s last year was in the pros, while Finley’s was as a junior in the NCAA—a huge difference on so many different levels, not just in competition, but training and coaching too. Finley, until this injury marred year, has improved every year in the college game. Give the new kid a year or two in Hershey and let’s see what some pro coaching can do before passing final judgment
from the house that Red Jesus built
by bigonetimer on Apr 2, 2009 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s really part of my point, though. In the NHL, playing against the best players in the world, Schultz held his own last year. In the (admittedly***) one game I saw, Finley looked like a stiff against a much lower level of competition. Not even on his worst night have I ever seen Schultz play as poorly as Finley did on that night. Still, it’s just one night, and I totally hope I’m wrong and that a year from now, when FInley breaks camp with the Caps, we can all laugh at what a dumbass I was for basing my opinion on one game. :)
by D'ohboy on Apr 2, 2009 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough. We’re all rooting for him.
by Scott in Shaw on Apr 3, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could his age have something to do with why he only got a 2 year deal?
by b.orr4 on Apr 2, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya though Shcultz is kind of unusual for how quickly someone of his size is already a regular in the NHL. Probably think it was better that Finley came out last year but can’t really bash the reasons why he stayed. I would think getting into that 2nd year of his entry deal we’ll have a handle on how he is or isn’t progressing.
by usiel on Apr 2, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve been a fan of Finley as a prospect since he was drafted and I still have high hopes. From my viewing he definitely has some agility/fluidity though quickness/topspeed is Schultz-like. For D players like that it really comes down to anticipating plays and positioning. I’d also expect Finley to finally be about to unleash the physicalness that has been constrained in college hockey. The caps have a couple of years to see how he looks at Hershey so its no rush really.
by usiel on Apr 2, 2009 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I remember watching Matt Greene play for UND a few years back in the NCAAs and he was an absolute BEAST hitting everything that moved, particularly against an undersized Minnesota team. I don’t think that somehow college hockey has restrained Finley or anyone else (it certainly didn’t stop Greene). I just don’t think Finley has the mobility to hit guys in open ice without taking himself irrevocably out of position. He knows this, so he plays conservatively. He’s more able to exert himself physically around the net and in the corners. In fact, that seemed like the one area of his game that was pretty good.
by D'ohboy on Apr 2, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve seen a couple of UND games a year just to watch Finley and early on and he would get penalized with an elbowing penalty with a clean check just because the other player was small. I do agree that considering his speed he likely won’t be an open ice body check specialist but more the crease clearing variety/crushing players against the boards which is fine with me.
My modest hope is that he can make it as a 3rd pairing physical dman. Probably the upper end of upside is a 2nd pairing Dman but we’ll have to see. I mean considering we already have Alzner/Carlson its fun to have someone like Finley to root for IMHO. I’ve been hockey draftnik for closing on twenty years (I’m still just an armchair scout like anyone else, heh) but it seems human nature for fans opinions to wane on a prospect the longer time has passed since they were drafted. Its all about the new hotness instead of the old and busted prospect-wise. For me I reserve judgement until at least after his first full season at Hershey.
by usiel on Apr 3, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
22 | 13 | 5 | 4 | 30 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
19 | 8 | 4 | 7 | 23 |
|
Atlanta
|
18 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 22 |
|
Florida
|
20 | 9 | 9 | 2 | 20 |
|
Carolina
|
21 | 4 | 12 | 5 | 13 |
(updated 11.21.2009 at 8:36 AM EST)
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
