Pothier cleared for contact, headed to Hershey
Per Caps PR staff, Brian Pothier has been cleared for contact and will be sent to Hershey for a conditioning assignment. Question of the day: did Potsy's status, specifically his potential to come off of Long-Term Injured Reserve, prevent the team from doing something else?
almost 3 years ago
J.P.
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Great news
Even if he never plays again, It’s nice to be pretty sure his life will go on just fine.
Since it looks like he will, I’d say there’s a chance that GMGM took his addition as like a trade with nobody given up. But more likely he was going to have to give up too much to get a rental player with so many buyers this year.
Even if he never plays again, It’s nice to be pretty sure his life will go on just fine.
Until some plumber in the AHL catches him with his head down in the corner.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
It's a season of hope
So maybe Pothier becomes the “trade” from within, and turns out to be one of the great feel good stories of the season.
And wait your turn — I’m not done inhaling on this pipe yet.
by Stephen Pepper on Mar 4, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
You nailed the date down pretty well :)
by OvechkinLaichsSemin on Mar 4, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Where does Pothier fit in now? who gets bumped once he gets back? Erskine? Juice? Is Brian a top 4 guy right off the bat?
Safe to say that Alzner stays down for the rest of the year barring injury. Kronwall went down with Pothier. I wonder if ShaMo gets his minutes cut…
Why is it safe to say Alzner stays down barring injury?
And Kronwall has to clear waivers, no?
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I’m guessing on Alzner because of Pothier potentially coming back and the cap. Just a feeling.
Does Kronwall have to clear? Consider me educated if it’s true.
Actually he doesn’t have to clear (see below).
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A 100% healthy Brian Pothier is a good 3rd pairing defenseman, and easily bumps Juice or Ersky from the lineup.
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I think a 100% healthy Brian Pothier is an ideal pair to Mike Green because of his speed. Pothier can’t handle Green’s minutes, but he is just about the best skater on the Caps and that’s quite an asset when the other defenseman on the pairing has a habit of pinching in.
I can’t remember if Pothier is a natural left or right…
by Gould Old Days on Mar 5, 2009 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
Pothier’s return to the ice is a nice feel-good story, but—to me—it has “really bad idea” written all over it.
Pick SPG for your chance to win probably nothing.
why is it a “bad idea”? Knowing the potential risk, I’m guessing the doctors were 100% sure he was ready to play before they cleared him and they held him out extra long before they gave it their OK. If Brian can return to form, the Caps just picked up a top four defenseman who’ll be coming into the season with a completely fresh set of legs and a hunger to play. He just might be the best move the Caps could have made today.
Strictly from a Caps Fan perspective, I think it’s great; his play at the blue line has been missed.
But.
If the guy takes another solid shot to the head for (official) concussion #2, the damage could be insurmountable. Research shows that damage from multiple concussions is cumulative, but that may not be the case here, as he’s had a lot of time to recover & whatever injury to his brain may have healed completely (or—more likely—is being circumvented).
That said, it goes against everything that I’d deem “common sense” to have missed over a year of service because of an injury to your brain, and then actively put yourself in a situation to have it happen again.
Pick SPG for your chance to win probably nothing.
Kronwall
Doesn’t Kronwall have to go through waivers to get sent down? Isn’t that how we picked him up in the first place? I thought he was a bright spot in that turd we laid last night. Would be a shame to lose him now.
He’s gotta clear.
I wasn’t terribly impressed by him last night, but I wasn’t in a very generous mood towards anyone.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Correction
Kronwall does not have to clear. Apparently the team had a 10-game, 30-day window in which he didn’t have to clear (not sure why). He would have to clear to come back up, though.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
What sort of salary cap issues arise from Pothier returning to the lineup… won’t there have to be other changes to facilitate his dollars, or was that cap space that was just dead to us because of the LTIR situation?
If BJ is on LTIR, the Caps have room to bring Pothier back without doing anything else.
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Update from TEB
They inquired about Pronger but the asking price apparently involved some combo of Alzner, Varlamov and Carlson.
They were never that serious about Morris because of Alzner and Pothier.
Thus the answer to “did Potsy’s status, specifically his potential to come off of Long-Term Injured Reserve, prevent the team from doing something else?” was a resounding “yes.”
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Wow. Yeah, 1 year of Pronger was not worth the defensive future of this team.
by OvechkinLaichsSemin on Mar 4, 2009 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I bet Tampa management would have done it =P
by OvechkinLaichsSemin on Mar 4, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Waddell would have done it in a NY minute
by Moonage Daydream on Mar 4, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
Of course this is purely hypothetical, but if the Caps were guaranteed of winning the SC this year by trading for Pronger, would you be willing to give up all three of those guys?
by Moonage Daydream on Mar 4, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
No. I think with the core the team has, Alzner, Carlson, and the goalies included, the team has a good shot at more than one Cup, and will almost certainly be competitive through 2010-11.
Just a clarification. You are using 2010-11 as a date that we will be competitive through because you are not anticipating Karlzner, JC, and the goalies to be ready before then right? I read you to say that regardless of those kids we will be good for the next two seasons, and then after that our stable of young studs is going to make us a perennial contender for the foreseeable future, correct?
No, I say that because a lot of the young players have contracts expiring in 2011. I think Azlner, Carlson, and the goalies will probably be ready to contribute at the NHL level by then
Alzner yes, JC maybe, one of the goalies probably. JC is 18 and was behind Azlner’s curve and we saw how hard it was for a blue chip player like Alzner to adjust. I wouldn’t count on much from JC before 2011. Think about how long it took Green to find his game. 3 pro seasons for JC puts him at 2011-12 even if he goes to the A next year. JC would have to have a faster learning curve than either Mike Green or Karl Alzner for him to be able to contribute by the 2010-11 season. I don’t think that is very realistic. I think 2010-11 is when we will see the Rookies in Hershey and JC become real contributors on the Caps and Alzner become a top pair defenseman.
I would in a second. Win the Cup now, worry about later later. (Note: this logic only applies to a guaranteed Cup win)
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+1
In this fantasy, we are guaranteed a Cup, which is more than we have now, and would be awesome. With Ovie, Backs, Green, etc. around for years, we can figure something out to make another run at some point.
by Scott in Shaw on Mar 4, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
I would trade Ovechkin if it guaranteed winning the cup this year. Seriously. There is no sacrifice too great to win a cup.
Now may I never use the words “trade Ovechkin” again.
Ummm… I’m kinda hoping AO leads us to more than one cup. Would you have traded Gretzky for 1 cup? Lemieux? Messier? How would that have worked out for you…
I think you do anything you can for a guaranteed championship.
Of course, there is no such thing as a guaranteed championship. The more interesting question is what do you give up for Pronger if he doubles or even triples your chances of winning it all this year. I would not give up Alzner or Carlson even if Pronger would have tripled the Caps’ chances of winning it all.
No team is ever better than 50% of winning it all going into the playoffs — there’s just too many teams trying too hard to win it. Better to build for a 5 or 10 year window of chances, and hope you win it all one of those years.
by Gould Old Days on Mar 5, 2009 2:12 AM EST up reply actions
The more interesting question is what do you give up for Pronger if he doubles or even triples your chances of winning it all this year. I would not give up Alzner or Carlson even if Pronger would have tripled the Caps’ chances of winning it all.
A huge part of that depends where you start. If you’re at 25-30% as your starting point, it’s a very different decision about whether to pull the trigger than if you’re at 5% to start.
KRONWALL ON SPORTSBOG
Sorry Kron, time to pack up again…….
“You know what, my stuff from Toronto’s coming down today so I’m gonna be unpacking all that, so that’s what I’ll be doing. Actually it took quite a while, it took 12 days to get it down. I’ve been walking around in basically the same clothes here the last couple weeks. I mean, obviously I’ve got a big bag with stuff, but it wasn’t nearly enough for what I would have been, because I thought I’d be getting my stuff two weeks ago. What can you do, right? No one has noticed yet, so that’s good. No one’s been chirping at me that I show up in the same clothes every day.”
I asked whether there were any possessions he had missed; “no, not really,” he said. “But, I mean, it’ll be nice to put on a different sweater every once in a while.”
-shwedy
That was a long read for a bad pun.
by OvechkinLaichsSemin on Mar 4, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
Pothier/Alzner
Yea, it wasn’t a pun but I guess I should have used something like ovechkinlaichssemin, I mean that’s classic material right? LOL.
So, when/if Pothier is brought up from Hershey and plays with us, we won’t have room for Alzner?
I guess I’m just surprised at the notion that we may not have Alzner in the playoffs. Or can we work around the cap in the playoffs?
-shwedy
The cap applies to the regular season only.
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I’m not sure how much help Alzner will be ni the playoffs. He still gets pushed around a little bit and the play is only going to be faster and more intense in the playoffs, as the rest of the team learned last year. It may be best to let him acclimate with a (hopefully) long playoff run in Hershey.
Don’t have to be a dick about it, buddy.
by OvechkinLaichsSemin on Mar 4, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Thank God I spent most of my time here, and not Tarik’s blog. Jesus, his commenters get worse and worse >_<. I feel terrible for him.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
I have to agree.
I comment over there now and then. it used to be a lot, and I used to be a regular, but I find that I get a lot more down-to-earth, realistic analysis here that is not “the sky is falling” colored. This site looks at all sides and actually argues based on numbers as well as visuals, and most everyone here realizies that they are armchair GM’s and are willing to admit when they’re wrong.
Imagine that.
Yeah, I was a long term poster over there. There are some good memories from over there, mostly, meeting people for the away game at Florida last year at the Greene Turtle at Verizon from the blog, and forming an NHL 09 team, but overall, the level of the posters has just gone downhill.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
I've done the same.
I still hang out at a watering hole in Clarendon for some of the away games from time to time, and recently a bunch of us from the blog took a trip up to Hershey to catch a Bears game. That was oodles of fun.
I noticed, though, that they’re all people who don’t comment that much, and I get frustrated with the tone of either “the sky is falling” or “everything is wonderful” without a lot of realism in the middle.
Honestly, I’d rather see Carcillo in a Flyers jersey than Upshall. I see him as a downgrade.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
Would you rather have Carcillo AND Mclaren on PHI than Upshall? I’m pretty sure moving Upshall was to make room for bringing in Mclaren but I’m not positive.
so I just realized Mclaren has been in the AHL all year. That has got to partially be a salary cap thing. PHI’s blueline is so bad that I don’t see how he isn’t an upgrade. But I do agree, PHI basically made a lateral move at best.
Doesn’t McLaren have to pass through re-entry waivers to be called up, or does the trade give him a free pass?
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I have no idea how that works but I assume he gets a free pass (like our free pass with Kronwall) because there is no point to trade for a guy that you can’t bring to your team. Either way, how can you (or why would you) claim a guy off waivers after the trade deadline if your playoff roster is frozen as of today?
Would it make sense...
…to call up Alzner now, while there’s still cap room, to get him a bit more NHL action, then send him back to Hershey to free up the cap space necessary to bring back Pothier from LTIR if/when he’s ready? That way, if Alzner’s needed in the playoffs, he won’t be stepping in without having played an NHL game in 3 months.
by Kerry Fraser's Hairspray on Mar 4, 2009 5:45 PM EST reply actions
Doesn’t that go back to the whole “yo-yo” argument that some have made re: his progress?
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
I don’t worry about that as much with guys who have been brought up right. It’s dangerous with guys like Kwame Brown, but… I’m gonna stop there.
Oh. Honestly hate basketball. Find it boring. hm.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
Point was
Bad upbringing, huge pressure, huge bust. Set the franchise back years. I don’t think any of those things describe Alzner, so I don’t fear the yo-yo as much.
It probably didn’t help that Michael Jordan constantly referred to him as a (derogatory term for homosexual) in front of the rest of the team.
by Kerry Fraser's Hairspray on Mar 4, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
And yet Rodman married the uber-hot Carmen Electra.
Strange world we live in, my friends.
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I was talking about this (sorta) the other day with someone. I said that if the Caps don’t recall Alzner at damn near 3:01 on deadline day, assuming they have the space, it’s pretty clear he’s not in their plans for this year’s playoffs, barring injury.
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If Poti’s groin is balky, don’t they HAVE to call up Alzner, or somebody to else to play the blue line? With Kronwall gone and Poti on the shelf, we’d only have five defensemen (Green, Schultz, Mo, Juice, Ersky), assuming Feds doesn’t shift back there, right?
No. It can help save his legs and the biggest problem our D has is clearing the zone. Feds makes great outlet passes and reads the play so well that he rarely has to put himself in position to take punishing hits on the fore check. He can play more minutes back there and still be responsible. The only problem is that with Feds on D we don’t have a 2C (please don’t tell me Laich or Kozlov can play that role).
And then use Nylander to take his spot at C?
by Kerry Fraser's Hairspray on Mar 4, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
Let's be honest
I wish Brian all the best and hope he never gets hurt again. But he should have retired, and his non-retirement is now hamstringing this team even more than before. One more hit and he could be a veggy-babble, and that would be a horrible thing for him and his family. I’m just kinda shocked that he is gonna come back from this willingly.
One more hit and he could be a veggy-babble
If that were the case, I have a hard time believing he would ever be cleared for contact.
That just means he’s okay now. Has nothing to do with the lasting effects of concussions, especially when they keep you out for over a year. Troy Aikman anyone?
One hit to any player with a history of concussions could be devastating. However, one good hit to a player without such a history could be devatsting (see Roy, Travis). As for the Aikman example, doctors have learned a lot about concussions in the last 10 years, and are FAR more cautious about diagnosing and allowing players to return (hence Pothier’s year-long absence).
Clearly, the doctors (because the Caps and Pothier called in second and third opinions on this) felt that the risk was low enough to allow Pothier to play.
If this were a younger, stupider player without a family, I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that he wasn’t taking a huge risk. Everything I’ve ever heard/read about Pothier suggests that his family comes first. The guy gets paid either way, so money’s not really the issue.
At this point, I trust the combined judgment of the player and the doctors involved. That doesn’t mean there’s not a risk involved, it just means that his return should be looked at in terms of what it does to the Caps on the ice, and not how it impacts Pothier’s private life.
How is his choice to play hamstringing this team? They can leave him in Hershey all year and he’ll have no cap impact on the big club.
I think that if he’s really down there for rehab, he can only stay so long. Maybe someone smarter than me will know the answer to this, but I seem to recall that it came up on here before.
Exactly right. Via Hockey Wilderness:
According to Section 13.8 of the collective bargaining agreement, teams are not permitted to send players to the minors on “conditioning loans” for longer than “14 consecutive days.”
You should go read that story, too, b/c it highlights how stupid and insensitive the NHL can be.
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Wowza!
Whoa, easy man. I was just joking. Hence the “LOL”.
If we can’t joke after the last two games, then God help us all.
-shwedy
The REPLY button is your friend.
Just sayin’.
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
Clearly Pothier wants to return so who the [expletive] am I to tell him what to do. If a doctor who went to medical school for lord knows how long says he is cleared to play, let him play.
These athletes know what they are getting into.
Strange theory, but work with me
Could the Olie to the Leafs thing be Wilson’s way of “getting back” at the Caps?
Olie retires as a Leaf and not as a Cap – CRAZY, I know, but that’s why they call him Crazy Ron.
Yeah, I know, it’s been a long day.
No. It’s a pure dump of dollars that Tampa doesn’t want to/can’t pay. It’s a joke, really.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
but why would Toronto take on that Salary? To stay above the league minimum after trading off some assets?
The only guy that has any NHL potential in that trade was a guy that went to TOR. I guess TOR took on the salary because they can and it allowed them to not send anything of value back to TBL.
After trading Antropov and Moore, they probably hit the floor on salary and had to come up. This is the second time, I think that Heward has been part of a deal like this, to get a team above the floor (he was traded by the Caps to LA a couple of years ago for the same reason).
Besides, the salary gets added to TO’s pool, but they aren’t paying them. They’re on long-term injury, so they’re being paid by the insurance company. Just like most professionals in any industry, the players have benefits other than a paycheck, and they get their short-term and long-term disability insurance. Their premiums are much higher than mine (I work a desk job, so I’m not facing as much risk as Jamie Heward of getting a skate to the face…) but they have them. The team probably pays a bit of the premium (if not all of it).
by MikeL-Pivonka on Mar 4, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
Shedding that salary also puts TB under the salary cap midpoint, which allows them to collect revenue-sharing monies.
Just drinkin’ the Koules-Aid.
I don’t think Ron Wilson had a single word of input on that deal since none of the players were NHL roster players and Olie won’t get healthy this season. Burke took on the Kolzig contract because the Laffs can afford to pay for a player that won’t contribute, the Lightning (notwithstanding most of their roster) cannot.
Good Luck Brian
I’m rooting for ya to get better and to get what you want out of the comeback. Even if it’s only one more shift in the NHL….
George was pretty blunt about his situation though, in that he said that if there was any recurrence of symptoms or relapse, that Brian’s career is over. Probably the right answer for Brian and his family…
So basically a "last chance" thing.
Basically, then, this is Pothier’s last chance. Any further concussion issues, and he’s done.
I agree with Ovechwin. Who am I to tell him no if he wants to do it, and he clearly does. He knows probably better than any of us what he’s getting into. All the same, if there is any trouble or any relapse, it’s best for him, for the team, and for his family to hang up his skates for good.
I wish him all the luck in the world, but I won’t deny I’ll be holding my breath when he’s on the ice for a while.
Check it out
Peerless brings some much needed perspective.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
55 | 27 | 17 | 11 | 65 |
|
Washington
|
55 | 28 | 22 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
57 | 26 | 25 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
55 | 24 | 25 | 6 | 54 |
|
Carolina
|
56 | 20 | 25 | 11 | 51 |
(updated 2.12.2012 at 10:06 PM EST)
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