Trade Deadline Prospects Update: The Untouchables and The Trade Bait
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 10:00 AM EST
224 comments
Right about now, the trade deadline is on the mind of just about every hockey fan in North America. Given the pretty good chance of their being some player and/or prospect movement, we figured now would be as good a time as any for a prospects update, although we're going about it a little differently this time around. The last prospects update, which came in late January, featured short blurbs on each prospect, their development, and where they might fit in with the club in coming seasons. Those blurbs are forgone here (though I encourage anyone who may have missed the January update to go back and check them out) in favor of discussion on subject matter more pertinent to the upcoming deadline: organizational depth by position, untouchable players, and guys who might be trade bait.
Goalies
By now most Capitals fans are familiar with the team's young and talented netminding duo of Simeon Varlamov and Michal Neuvirth. That the Capitals have two guys who have the talent to be legit NHL number ones is a level of depth that is very rare. The question is this: does the fact that the Capitals have two talented young goalies make the players untouchable or expendable? On one hand, keeping both Varlamov and Neuvirth significantly increases the odds of the team having a homegrown number one goalie on the roster since it's unlikely both will wind up busts and goaltending tandems seem to be on the rise. On the other hand, young goaltenders are so valuable that holding two of them rather than moving one to shore up other areas may not be great asset management.
Defensemen
The Capitals are deep in terms of prospect depth on the blue line, with at least a half dozen defensemen who stand a chance at being good NHL players. Size is a plus here: Eric Mestery, John Carlson, and Joe Finley are all least 6'3'', the biggest being Finley who's 6'7'', 245 pound frame would already put him among the biggest defensemen in the NHL. The Capitals' defensive prospect pool also boasts versatility: Finley, Mestery, and Viktor Dovgan are all stay-at-home types, and Josh Godfrey, Sami Lepisto, and Keith Seabrook have offensive upside. The untouchables here are John Carlson, who has been compared to Mike Komisarek and has the hardest shot in the OHL, and Karl Alzner, who most Capitals fans already know about, both for their high ceilings and their likelihood of realizing their potential. Lepisto may be the most likely trade candidate, as he seems to be buried on the Capitals depth chart and his production at the AHL is likely to intrigue potential trade partners. Finley, valued for his size, could also make his way out of town, though his upside is high enough that it would probably take a pretty significant return to pry him away.
Forwards
While the Caps's defensive prospects have a nice combination of NHL caliber talent and size, most of the team's forward prospects are on the small side: both Chris Bourque and Mathieu Perreault are generously listed at 5'9'' and among the younger high-end prospects, only Oskar Osala and Anton Gustafsson are over six feet tall. It's probably the case that none of the team's forward prospects are off limits, but we'd like see Osala designated as such. The young winger has the potential to be a 25 goal scorer at the NHL and could play at over 230 pounds in a couple years. Players like that don't come along all that often. Chris Bourque and Francois Bouchard are probably the most likely trade bait, other than Osala.
So, what jumps out at you? Who should the Capitals hold on to and who's expendable? Perhaps most importantly of all, who might George McPhee be able to move for more than they're really worth?
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Kaberle
Saw this a few minutes ago on The Hockey News…sounds good to me. Let’s get it done!
Caps Insider (Posted 2009-03-03 09:35:55)
My insiders tell me a deal is very close involving Washington & Toronto with Kaberle heading to the Caps for a 2nd round pick, Eric Fehr and Joe Finley or Sasha Pokulok.
by mechanicsville on Mar 3, 2009 10:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
fehr is too much an offense defenseman…we need a penalty killer and a physical defenseman
by luketheriault on Mar 3, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whoops sorry, that should be “too much FOR an offensive defenseman”
by luketheriault on Mar 3, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Kaberle
Wow! I’d hate to see Fehr leave (and go to a hell hole of a team like Toronto — though they’re better than Philly), but that sounds good, really.
And hopefully Pokulok, not Finley. Finley’s got more of a chance of making it than Sasha, does, unfortunately (for Sasha, that is).
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 3, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Toronto should be an exciting team to watch
with Burke and Wilson given the green light to rebuild. Maybe Fehr can click there.
I think he’s the ideal trade candidate (aside from Mr. NMC). The guy has potential but he is not meeting it here and the expectation that he ever will becomes more and more unfounded. He needs something to jumpstart him. Maybe a trade would do that. New coach, new system, new team, new chapter in a talented but underperforming players life.
by Wisper on Mar 3, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The guy is like a point per game over the last month, which, coincidentally, is his first extended look on the big club. I don’t think he’s underachieving and I think he fits better with the Caps game than Flash does. We need more size and power around the net, less cutesy play on the perimeter.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 3, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Fehr notches a point more often than anyone other than Semin, Backstrom, and Ovechkin, despite not getting much PP time and playing with weak linemates.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1. I would take that trade in a heartbeat if it was Pokulok. In addition to his concussion problems, his name is hard as hell to spell.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Won't Work
Unless there’s something else big brewing, there’s no cap space for this deal. The Caps have $1.75 million in cap space. Kaberle has a cap hit of $4.2 million while Fehr has a cap hit of just $735,000. Unless I’m mistaken that leaves them $1,715,000 over the cap.
by b.orr4 on Mar 3, 2009 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
With roughly 3/4 of the season completed, doesn’t a 4 mil cap hit become a 1 mil hit?
by Fauxrumors on Mar 3, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s more like about $3M in cap space, but that still doesn’t make it work. I don’t know if I’m loving that deal anyway…
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think that works salary-cap wise, does it? JP?
I don’t think Fehr is off-limits, but I don’t think he’s the most likely roster forward to be traded. In fact I’d say that Flash and Brash are more likely to go than Fehr.
by TylerG on Mar 3, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d trade Fehr before Flash or Brash. Sorry.
Fehr has been hot lately, and struggled the rest of this year. Perfect time to trade a guy if you’re not 100% sold on him.
Flash is on a low point, hard to sell. He’s still a good forward, just struggling.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Flash has a great contract so I can see him over Fehr, but Fehr is 23 and has been producing at very good clip, especially recently, despite playing with weak teammates and Brashear’s a 36 year old who’s probably retiring after this season.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m just saying who I’d move first. Flash partially because of his great contract. Also, I think Fehr has been at his best on a line with Flash/Feds or Flash/Stecks.
I just see a love affair for Fehr and I’m just not on that band wagon yet.
As far as Brash, I think Brash is done after this season, which suits me fine, because next year C-Bo can play.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not 100% convinced on Fehr myself but his production rating is fourth on the team, ahead of Green, Fedorov, Kozlov, Fleischmann, Nylander, and Laich, despite that Fehr doesn’t get much PP time and has generally played with weak teammates.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a decent player – I’m just saying his contract status and his struggles at the start of the season to swoon now give him a lot of upside in a trade right now.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is everyone convinced Brash is done after this season? We may not bring him back, but someone in this league might. He still forechecks the hell out of people even if he doesn’t fight as much as he used to
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 3, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not convinced he’s done.
I am convinced he’s done here. And by “convinced” I mean “praying.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 3, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd trade Fehr before almost anyone
The guy has talent if he can fit in somewhere and start delivering (and a one-month hot streak doesn’t count as delivering). We should be able to get something respectable back.
I’d definitely keep Flash over Fehr. But Brash is probably gone after this year anyway. He’s UFA and I doubt GMGM will look to bring him back.
by Wisper on Mar 3, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't
because this is THE EXACT SAME ARGUMENT that could be said for Flash at this time last year. Give the guy a genuine 16+ min/game shot and he produces, as evidenced. I will gladly post the behindthenet.ca stats again if you like, but Fehr is by almost all measurements one of the most effective forwards on the team.
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They’re different arguments, in my book.
I was a Flash supporter, and I still am. I’m not saying we should trade Fehr over anyone, (Mo and Jurcina come to mind, as well as Nylander, if it’s confirmed he’ll just be a scratch the rest of the year[I STILL have hope.]) but I’d rather trade Fehr over Flash. Flash fits the team better, albeit he’s smaller, but he’s faster, has a better shot, and can do more with it. Fehr is a great great great power forward, and the second best PF on the team behind Ovechkin. But I feel we could get a better power forward for now now and a better one for the future in free agency upcoming.
If we didn’t move him, I wouldn’t cry.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just think if you’re going to move a guy who’s a top-6 on most teams you better be getting a good return. I’d take this stance for Flash or Fehr. My only thing is that we’ve got small forwards in the system, Bouchard, Bourque, Perrault, SDR…and not too many big guys with the skill of Fehr…only Osala really comes to mind, maybe Gus but he’s a C, and that’s a whole different story.
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you, 100%. I also think that in today’s NHL, size isn’t as big as an issue as it used to be, as it tends to reward the skilled players. I hate it, but that’s kind of what’s happening. Tenacity and aggressiveness on offense are rewarded, and defense is just turning into basketball, and it sucks, but that’s the way the league’s heading. I like Fehr, and would not be saying the same things if this was old-NHL.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That would require another move for salary purposes...
…but if there’s any truth to that that’s amazing. I have trouble believing that frankly. How could Burke settle for a potential bust or ok prospect, a 2nd, and a good roster player?
by brs03 on Mar 3, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where is this?
I looked all over the Hockey News website and couldn’t find any mention of it. Do you have a link?
by Forsch31 on Mar 3, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm.
I’ve heard this one, but I’m not sure I’m buying. Kaberle is a power play quarterback, and last I checked it was our PK that needed more help. With him, our PP would be terrifying, but what about the PK? Does he suit what we really need, especially for our price?
Also, Fehr? I see Flash first, because isn’t Flash a smaller guy? Can we replace him from Hershey easily enough with Bourque or Perreault? Size in our young forwrds isn’t something we’ve got a lot of.
by gotsparkly on Mar 3, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kaberle is not bad defensively at all. He’d help by merely pushing everyone back into their proper slots minuteswise. He’d be another Poti, almost, and that’s not a bad thing even if there are better options.
As for Flash vs. Fehr, Flash has the plus of being signed for next year on the cheap. Fehr might be due more this offseason, although maybe GMGM can get him to a similar deal, I don’t know.
by brs03 on Mar 3, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm, a point.
And we seem to make all our mistakes when we’re tired, so managing minutes seems to be critical for this team.
What about the size thing with Flash, though?
by gotsparkly on Mar 3, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We're not exactly starved for size either though...
Besides Ovie and Semin, we’ve got Osala, AnGus, Kugryshev, and Broda up front who are all over 6’. Fehr could be replaced short term by keeping Kozlov (if you really need the size still). Long term his spot could easily become Osala’s (style), or Kooger’s (minutes and scoring). Bouchard might take his roster spot even if he has a different style.
Yeah, he’s still unique and the team shouldn’t give him up easily, but at the same time he might be good bait under the right circumstances.
by brs03 on Mar 3, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
But none of those guys is older than 20 and all are probably at least 2 years away…
If anything, I would see Fehr taking Kozlov’s spot and THEN Oh-soola taking Fehr’s spot. Fehr would be a cheaper replacement for Kozzy. It makes more sense in the ‘salary cap era’ to find the cheaper alternative isn’t it?
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think you’re selling Kozlov really short on skill. Fehr is more of a drive to the net type of player, Kozlov is a great dangler/puck retention/board battler
by ns on Mar 3, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand completely. I think Kozzy’s puck possession skills are pretty awesome, but if you’re looking for a similar size guy to fill that pseudo-role, and not pay $3M/year then Fehr is your best bet on this team. Let’s be honest, they’re aren’t many guys on our team that have that size and skill set (possession type). We’ve got a lot of big grinder types, Laich, Fehr, Steckel, Bradley, Gordo…I guess I’m just saying that out of those choices I’d take Fehr to replace Kozzy
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
from what i’m seeing lately i don’t know if i’m wild about another Poti, eh?
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d take another Poti over another Morrisonn, Jurcina, or Erskine, any day.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 3, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
kaberle has two more years at 4.25M per. ain’t no way…is what i’m sayin’.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Morris seems more likely....
…given that Tarik reports the presence of a Phoenix scout at Sunday’s Panthers game and a commenter mentioned that Phoenix also had scouts in Hershey.
With absolutely nothing to back it whatsoever except gut feel – a Morris trade has the right feel for what we know GMGM to go for, to me.
by gotsparkly on Mar 3, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Muffins?
I’m not a fan of this guy at all. He is last on the Laffs in PK time among defenseman, and (last I checked) was 3rd in Even Strength ice time. We don’t need a PP specialists, we need a guy that will shore up our ranks on the PK and allow BB to adjust the other dmen’s minutes down 5 on 5. He’s not a good fit for this team, especially with the 2 years left on his contract.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 3, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
neuvirth and an nhl-ready defenseman (i’d say sloan but id be willing to go as high as morrison or schultz)
for
pronger
by luketheriault on Mar 3, 2009 10:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Salary Cap
Pronger has a contract for $6.25M.
The Caps only have about $1.75M of space. Even assuming we would be willing to go right to the cap (which no team would): Neuvirth makes $821K and Sloan makes $475K. Even if you make it Neuvy and ShaMo, Mo only makes $1.975M.
That leaves you $1.7M over the cap. Make it Neuvy, ShaMo AND Sloan and your still $1.2M over.
by Wisper on Mar 3, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh yes of course…sorry
my pronger idea came up a month ago when my friend and i were discussing pie-in-the-sky transactions and when i came up with this, shipping Nylander to Columbus had been a major component that i have since forgotten about…
so let me rephrase
Nylander to Columbus for a third-round pick.
THEN neuvirth and schultz for pronger.
by luketheriault on Mar 3, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You think Nyls would waive his NMC to go to CBJ?
Or that Columbus would want to pay Nylander 4.875 for two more years when they know Brassard will return next year? They’ll have Brassard on their top-line with Nash so Nyls will be in the mix with Umberger and Malhotra.
That’s an expensive 2nd or 3rd liner to lock in for two years.
by Wisper on Mar 3, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well they are on course to make the playoffs… washington clearly doesnt want him here anymore, and he must know that he’ll be gone by next season no matter what…columbus just seems the best fit from the teams i looked at….personally i dont give a ricofata where he goes or what he goes for…
by luketheriault on Mar 3, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i’d say it’s a battle of wits at this point. caps scratching nylander trying to get him to drop NMC. nylander has to know that if he just sucks it up and quietly waits, he’s getting bought out over the summer.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i dont really get how sitting and getting the last two years of your contract bought out is better than playing those two years…particularly when you are 36 and you’re going to be lucky to get another contract in the NHL let alone one anywhere near what you are currently making.
by luketheriault on Mar 3, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unrelated: if my boss came to me and asked me to not work for the next two years and still get paid my full salary, I’d ask him, “Where do I sign?”
:)
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 3, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, very unrelated even with all of the seeming similarities.
by zephyr on Mar 3, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a Pride Thing
We look at it from a purely money aspect, but pro athetes, particularly ones that have been in the league as long as Nyls take sitting as a personal affront to their reputation. Sitting for the rest of the season and then being bought out is just about the ultimate insult if you have any pride in your craft. I’m just guessing, but I’d bet that Nylander would jump at any chance to go to a playoff contender and prove to the Caps and the league that he can still play at a high level.
by b.orr4 on Mar 3, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so we hope. we also learned from the edmonton fiasco that it isnt about money with Nyls, so hopefully that works to our advantage
by renstar on Mar 3, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not unrelated its a valid point
but then you arent a professional athlete.
while i admit there will always be the nedveds and jagrs of the world that have no problem with the “collect the paycheck” mentality. i prefer to assume (yes only assume) that most guys got to this level through a combination of skill AND desire.
furthermore you don’t have another 3 years (give or take 1) MAX to ply your trade in before you had to either retire or get a job at (comparably to current salary) mcdonalds for the rest of your life.
by luketheriault on Mar 3, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if you’re nylander, you’d rather be bought out, get 2/3 of what you had coming and then be free to do whatever you wanted. he’d have no problem playing for a $2M and he’d pick the team.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Caps are hard-up against the salary cap, even with Clark and Pothier on long-term injury reserve. If they acquire Pronger without sending equal salary back in the other direction, they’ll be over the salary cap.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually they have space to take on about $3M in annual salary if BJ is now on LTIR.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is he on LTIR? In that case, Johnny plus Clark would get us about $3m. Hmmm.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my premise from last week was Mo, Brashear (both FA to be) to make the salary work. then all we have to do is give them something they want.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fehr
i could see why they would let him go over Flash, as Osala seems to have a similar style and size…although is no where near ready for NHL play.
by ns on Mar 3, 2009 10:15 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
factor that they would be trading a european for a home grown canadien boy also…
by luketheriault on Mar 3, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Antropov
Think Burke tries to offload ANOTHER Russian onto us ;-) ? It probably wouldn’t take too much, either, but I also don’t know how expensive Antropov is.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 3, 2009 10:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent work as always DMG.
For what it’s worth, McPhee has been asked about Holtby and Della Rovere in trade offers, but he wasn’t budging, or at least he said as much at the STH pre-game meeting. I’d have to think that Finley, Mestery and Lepisto could be dangled for a player/high pick, with Carlson, Godfrey and Seabrook being untouchable.
On the F side, Bouchard, A. Gordon and Osala should get long looks in camp, assuming they’re all still here by then.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Mar 3, 2009 10:27 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Why is Seabrook untouchable? You do know he’s not the Seabrook playing in CHI right?
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 3, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Mar 3, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so why is Seabrook untouchable?
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 3, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d add Holtby to your goaltender list. I’d like to see the Caps keep all three for now, mostly because Varly’s ability to stay upright is in question.
Among the forwards, I hope Osala is the only untouchable. He’s got the size/etc. to be a third-liner on a Cup team. I think Chris Bourque should keep his bags packed.
Among the D, I’d consider it a win-win i the Caps can realize something/anything for Lepisto or Pokulok. Among the kids Josh Godfrey seems the most movable: The Caps have players comparable to him and he doesn’t seem to have progressed much this year.
by TylerG on Mar 3, 2009 10:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Picking up Carlson in the draft has given the Caps so much more flexibility with their D prospects. Thanks Emmy!
I’d be surprised if we get anything worthwhile for Lepisto
by ns on Mar 3, 2009 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not straight up, but Lepisto wouldn’t be a bad throw-in for a team looking to speed up their blueline.
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Speed up? Are you kidding? Have you seen Lepisto skate?!
by TylerG on Mar 3, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that depends on which team we’re talking about…
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Something is out of whack here. If Osala’s upside is “third-liner” then he’s not untouchable. Third-liners are available all the time, for next to nothing. Someone will probably pick up Ian Laperriere for a 2nd round draft pick this year. The Caps got Matt Cooke for Matt Pettinger last year. The Red Wings signed Dan Cleary for nothing.
I think that in order to be “untouchable” someone must represent a talent that’s extremely difficult or costly to replace via free agency or trade – i.e. a top pair defenseman, a #1 goalie or a top-six forward.
I would like to think that Osala’s a guy who can fill in on a second line. If that’s the case I can see an argument for not trading him. Otherwise, he’s fair game.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Skilled, young third-liners with size who have tiny, rookie-sized cap hits are a Prime Commodity in today’s NHL. I concur that Osala has second-line upside.
And arguments based on Matt Cooke’s value/performance are not convincing.
by TylerG on Mar 3, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Third and fourth liners are just ridiculously easy to come by for any GM who pays even a little to the waiver wire or the later rounds of the draft. Look at Steckel, Beagle, A. Gordon, et. al. Yeah, Matt Cooke might not be the greatest player ever, but he was serviceable and we got him for essentially nothing in return. The same thing goes for Tikkanen during the ’98 cup run.
I guess my point is that we shouldn’t hoard middling prospects. If Osala has the ability to play on a top line, then we should try to hold onto him, but if he’s just going to be a 3rd liner on our hypothetical cup team, or if he tops out as Eric Fehr over the next three years, then he’s expendable.
Personally, I’d like to keep him, but I’m hoping that he’s playing here next year on a third line, and then moves up to the second when other players’ salary demands (Flash and Fehr) get silly.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you have to stick it out with a guy that big that can skate. another team’s trade offer isn’t likely going to match what we think osala’s ceiling is.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Goalies
If neither Varlemov or Neuvirth are expendable, what does that mean for Machesney? One of the three of them has to be dealt at some point. I don’t think Holtby can be in this discussion just yet based on the fact that every other team in the league passed up on this kid not 8 months ago, and he hasn’t seen a lick of professional ice time.
by FOHSMarc on Mar 3, 2009 10:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Anything brought in for a Machesney trade
would be suiting up in Hershey. The guy’s a prospect add-on to a larger package at best.
by Wisper on Mar 3, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Based on the meeting last week, they’ll be turning him pro next year. Where he goes remains to be seen, but he might get a look in the A.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Mar 3, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I suspected as much.
Remember they passed up on Della Rovere, too, and what a steal he’s turning out to be so far.
I can see them pulling him up to either Hershey or South Carolina next year, depending on where he falls. I think Machesney is a career AHL’er and won’t make the big club as more than a backup. Varlamov seems to be having a few injury issues and may need another year in Hershey. I think Neuvirth is ready or close to it now, to be honest.
by gotsparkly on Mar 3, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holby and SDR cannot go to the A next year. They have to play in the CHL until their eligibility is up. NHL teams have to either bring their CHL prospects to the big club or leave them in the CHL. That is why PHI sent Sbisa back to CHL, and why Bouchard and Perreault stayed in the Q until they finished eligibility despite it being clear that they had nothing to learn in their last year.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 3, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Holtby can
SDR can’t.
Holtby is a late ’89 rather than a ’90 so he and Broda could both be ’08 picks that turn pro next season.
by Langway on Mar 3, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
…along with Carlson, of course, but for different reasons since he was drafted out of the USHL.
by Langway on Mar 3, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think that makes a difference. My understanding is guys are CHL eligible until the season they’re 20 at the start of, although some of those guys have trouble sticking because they’re overage.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nope, the age cut-off is December 31 rather than the start of the season.
by Langway on Mar 3, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did not know that. Thanks for the clarification.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where did you find that info? I think it would be cool if we could get together some of these docs so that we could reference them, or at least build up a library of links.
I’m thinking: the CBA for Dummies, particularly the cap, waivers and the like; draft/eligibility rules; college rules; etc.
JP? DMG? Thoughts?
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you guys give me links, I’ll throw them in “The Vault” – check out that widget at the bottom of the left sidebar on the front page, as it already has the CBA, rulebook, Caps salaries and a draft pick tracker.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 3, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s actually an idea I’d been mulling over for when things get slow over the summer.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it does.
The league-of-interest is the one they’re drafted out of, not where they’re playing now. Carlson was drafted as a USHLer, Kooger was drafted as a Russian league player. Neither of them are subject to the CHL’s rules wrt AHL age cutoff, both could join next season if the team so desired.
by brs03 on Mar 3, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kooger?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 3, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kugryshev? What, it’s not that bad a nickname, is it?
by brs03 on Mar 3, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I was waiting until the kid got a little further along before giving him a pet name. :)
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 3, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
not if we can find someone nicknamed MILF to play with him.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The rules might be different for players taken in the CHL Import Draft, as opposed to the OHL draft, but I don’t think Carlson has a special exemption (though I may be wrong).
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe you are...
…the org. has apparently already looked into it, and confirmed during Capitals Report one day.
As far as the AHL is concerned, Carlson is a USHLer. He isn’t subject to the limitations of the CHL.
by brs03 on Mar 3, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I understand now. When you referred to the leagues the players were drafted out of you, meant when the Capitals drafted them, right? See, I read it as what league they were in when London drafted them.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, it’s the NHL draft that’s the determining point. Sorry for the confusion.
by brs03 on Mar 3, 2009 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for the clarification, as well as the information in general.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Broda
His numbers really jump out at me, but I never hear anything about him. What’s his ceiling? Can he be a productive 2nd or 3rd line center in the NHL? We’ll be in need of a few of those in the next couple years.
by Scott in Shaw on Mar 3, 2009 10:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
It’s tough to tell. Here’s a take on him from before the draft.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting take
That guy thought he was a 3rd to low-2nd rd pick, Caps took him in the low-5th
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rumor had it he had attitude and effort issues.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing that makes me wonder about him is that there are a couple ways of producing ridiculous stats in Juniors. The first is to be the best player on a mediocre team. You get all sorts of playing time, especially on the PP. The second is to be a mediocre player on a good team, or to play with a great teammate.
I think when Broda was with Moose Jaw, the former applied (his high ratio of goals to assists seems to bear this out). Now that he’s with Calgary, maybe it’s the latter phenomenon.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The third option, of course, is to just be really damn good. (Not saying this applies to Broda — I have no idea.)
by Scott in Shaw on Mar 3, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. I was trying to convey that these were unrealistically inflated stats, but the best descriptor I could come up with was “ridiculous.”
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, he’s A) decently knowledgeable about hockey and as a result, B) got the ear of a lot of Canadians and a lot of the brass in the NHL.
I think a lot of his more incendiary comments are sheer bluster. This is, after all, a guy who intentionally wore an orange hard hat while working on a staunchly Irish Catholic construction site.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure
you put this in the wrong thread…the Cherry bashing thread is below. ;)
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My browser is wigging out again. A ton of my posts are randomly out of place. :(
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s something about people ‘suggesting’ trades that reveals how, er, engaged they are.
by TylerG on Mar 3, 2009 11:03 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Jesus... its 11:00 already
Four hours to go… would somebody SIGN someone so we can all get a clue about what’s going down??!?!?!?!??!
by Wisper on Mar 3, 2009 11:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Four hours? Try 28.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 3, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa... you're right.
Ive been in Boston all weekend so I’m all thrown off but I have an NHL count-down clock on my desktop that shows 3 Hours 38 minutes and is still counting down.
WTF? What’s it counting down to? the 24-hour “Trade Day Window”?
Odd…..
by Wisper on Mar 3, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its the sean-avery-is-a-ranger clock
by luketheriault on Mar 3, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or the countdown until the countdown starts?
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get rid of our goalies...
Getting rid of Varly and Neuvy for a playoff run seems very shortsighted. Every time I watch them I’m amazed at their maturity. Their level of talent, mechanics, as well as mental state is just tremendous, and not only for their age, in my opinion.
I would be more comfortable with seeing Theo traded then either Varly or Neuvy.
If GMGM does anything he needs to somehow rid the team of Nylander and then expand from there. If Nylander isn’t gone the Cap space is so tight that I don’t know how he could bring anyone better in on a dollar to dollar basis compared to what the Caps roster already looks like.
Exception: ShaMo, Erskine after playing more than 2 games in a row.
by zephyr on Mar 3, 2009 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
NHL on the Fly commentators this morning speculated that Derek Morris (PHX) is worth about a 2nd and a 4th. I would do that in my sleep.
by bigonetimer on Mar 3, 2009 11:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That would be a good pickup AND he seems like a cool guy from the bit of the “day in the life of” I watched.
It also makes Kronwall and Mo nice bargaining chips.
by zephyr on Mar 3, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I thought so, too. Gretzky was raving about him in that snippet. He is exactly the kind of piece we could plug into our rotation cheaply
by bigonetimer on Mar 3, 2009 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
$3.95M cap hit. So not that definition of “cheaply.”
If Morris brings no more than a 2 and a 4, I’ll be really surprised. I can see a Lepisto-(type)-and-a-2.
by TylerG on Mar 3, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As I said above....
To me, a Morris trade has the right feel to me, for our needs and what we can afford. With Tarik reporting Phoenix scouts in Washington and Backstrom signing with the Wild, this seems like a trade in our price range without mortgaging the farm for the kind of thing we need.
by gotsparkly on Mar 3, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Backstrom re-signing puts Josh Harding in play.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 3, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends, who do they have in their system?
I can’t say I wouldn’t be chill with a Backstrom/Harding setup.
by gotsparkly on Mar 3, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Backstrom contract is ridiculous. He’s 31 and they’ve got a younger, cheaper version waiting behind him. They’ll be looking back on this with regret in a couple years when they salary cap goes down and they have $6m tied up in a good, but not spectacular goaltender.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i don’t see the cap going down. they might have to give a lot of money back via escrow, but i don’t think the league wants the stigma associated with the cap going down.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The league has no say in whether the cap goes down or not. If revenues are bad next year it goes down.
by brs03 on Mar 3, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you are underestimating the power of creative accounting. i think they’ll do their best to hold the cap relatively stable and not have it fluctuate too wildly. and really, are revenues going to go down? i mean the tv contract can only get better. tv ratings are only getting better. chicago and washington are leading a resurgence. attendance is slightly up. really the big challenge right now is the canadian dollar which has come back down to reality after achieving par with the USD a year or so ago.
see also:
http://www.fromtherink.com/2008/12/22/700297/nhl-revenues-to-increase-2
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Things may not be as bleak as they were projected to be. But if the financial crises really does hurt revenues, there’s not much the league can do without committing fraud.
All I’m saying is the league can’t choose to ignore any financial slumps for the sake of PR. If they can keep the numbers alive then good for them and it will end up benefiting many teams.
by brs03 on Mar 3, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
even if the cap goes up $6M for a Lemaire goalie is absurd.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think this signing may mean adios to Gaborik sooner than later.
by bigonetimer on Mar 3, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and i forgot to mention, you are right, that is a ludicrous contract. if you play lemaire hockey of course the goalie will look good. roloson? fernandez? enjoy that, wild fans…
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Wild take their fan base for granted at their peril. Sooner or later, even die-hard Minnesotan hockey fans want to see a winner, or at the very least, a team that is more interesting than watching the lakes freeze over.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Derek Morris
Right feel for me too. He’s been shut down, not playing until he’s traded, so he is going somewhere. He’s a solid guy on and off the ice and he’s instantly our #2 defenseman. Only problem is, Phoenix will trade him for picks/prospects and they’ll certainly NOT take a big salary off our hands in return. Morrisonn maybe.
I’d love to see them send Olli Jokinen somewhere, then take Nyls off our hands and send us Morris. That’s a stretch…
by Cap74 on Mar 3, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that would be amazingly stupid of them since Olli has 1 year left, while Nyls has 2, and he’s 5 years younger. The ONLY benny for them would be the $750k in cap space they free up, and they don’t really need it.
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
cheap compared to Pronger, I guess! And with the caveat that we need to shed some salary of our own…Seriously though, he can play top 4 minutes and special teams. He’s a righthanded shot who could easily supplant at least 3 or 4 of our current NHL roster.
by bigonetimer on Mar 3, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Morris for that reason. He comes in as a top four guy, which bumps Morrisonn to the third pairing and bumps Jurcina or Erskine to the press box or out of town.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You sure Mo isn't the one who bounces out of town?
by gotsparkly on Mar 3, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mo is exactly who I think will go. The Caps aren’t going to resign him and McPhee hates to lose a player without getting something in return.
by b.orr4 on Mar 3, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think there’s a good chance he moves, but I think he’s better than Jurcina and Erskine so getting Morris and keeping Mo makes the blue line better as a whole, imo
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
by the way, another excellent, well-researched post, D
by bigonetimer on Mar 3, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mo is an RFA after this season, so the Caps could keep him for the Cup run, and then trade him at the Draft for a decent return. I don’t expect Mo to be back next year, but not trading him at the deadline tomorrow doesn’t mean we lose him for nothing.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 3, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the primary reason Mo is attractive trade bait is that a team is not getting a contract back for next year if they don’t want him.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Know who’s rooting for it to be Mo? The equipment guy who would just half to lop “onn” off of Mo’s old nameplate.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 3, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason I have nothing against keeping Juice. Maybe I should go look at his numbers or something.
by zephyr on Mar 3, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You know why
‘Cause Juice makes $900k and Mo makes $1.975M. Now assuming both of their salaries would go up in arb you’re still looking at about $1M of the Caps cap being taken up by a 3rd pairing D-man who is replaceable. Green-Schultz
Poti-Alzner/Morris
Juice-Erskine
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a righthanded shot
And that right there could be a lot of his appeal to GMGM. We don’t have many of those, and BB likes to have a rightie and a leftie on each pairing.
by gotsparkly on Mar 3, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
late getting back on this, but the comparison was the Brad Stuart pickup by Detroit (a 2nd & 4th to LA, split years) at last year’s deadline.
by bigonetimer on Mar 3, 2009 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
…didn’t quite register your comment to mine, but you nailed it!
by bigonetimer on Mar 3, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i didn’t realize how disconnected it would look to respond to an original comment that had a long reply thread. at least now people are guaranteed to see it.
by Scott in Shaw on Mar 3, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shane Doan makes less than Nylander
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 12:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh, if only we could get Shane Doan.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe if we picked up Doan, Ryan Smyth, Brendan WItt and Tie Domi, Don Cherry would stop complaining about Ovechkin.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would need Joe Sakic and have to scratch Fedorov every game, but could it happen?
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares about pleasing Grapes? He can go splunk in a cave for all I care. The guy is nothing more than a sideshow and he’s given a lot of Ovi haters the ammo they’ve been looking for the entire season with his recent spewing of crap.
by zephyr on Mar 3, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still. . .
Nothing will ever top the 2002 Olympics, when he called the Russians “a race of quitters” on the air.
I think Messrs. Napoleon and Hitler might heartily disagree with that assertion.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just shows his ignorance
Since Russians aren’t a race, just like Americans, Canadians etc. aren’t. Dude’s an idiot…
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, one more try
Unfortunately, he’s A) decently knowledgeable about hockey and as a result, B) got the ear of a lot of Canadians and a lot of the brass in the NHL.
I think a lot of his more incendiary comments are sheer bluster. This is, after all, a guy who intentionally wore an orange hard hat while working on a staunchly Irish Catholic construction site.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that a GM should take several steps to sort the keepers from the trade bait:
1) Forget about draft position. Too often people get their knickers in a twist about where some prospect was drafted. Rico Fata was a first round pick. Scouts and GMs make mistakes – get over it.
2) Assess the situation positionally – do you have 10 LWs, but no Cs? Nothing but lefty-shooting defensemen? 6 goalies for 4 slots? There’s no sense in holding onto players that have nowhere to go (cough, Chris Bourque, cough).
3) Assess the contract situation – which players are up for renegotiation/arbitration/free agency, and what position/role do they have with the team? For example, the Caps currently have two great LWs, but Semin will be a free agent after next year and will probably expect a substantial raise.
4) Project who the top-tier prospects are: these are the guys who reasonably project as either top-six/skilled forwards, top-four defensemen or #1 goalies. They don’t need to be there yet, but they should be more than 50% likely to achieve that. These types of players are relatively more important to hold onto, because they are expensive to acquire any other way.
5) Compare the top prospect list to the positional and salary situations from steps 2 and 3. Do you have anyone who’s buried on the depth chart? Is there some player who’s superfluous now, but will need to step in for a guy who’s retiring or leaving via free agency?
Off the top of my head, if I do that for the Caps, I see that the system is full of 3rd and 4th line centers, lots of defensemen and goaltenders. The Caps are thin at the forward positions in terms of skill – there are tons of grinders, but not many top-six forwards there. (This isn’t surprising, given the emphasis that the Caps have placed on drafting defensemen early.) The Caps also have three good goaltending prospects, which is probably one too many in the long run.
Contractually, the Caps have their #1 LW and #1 D/puck-moving defenseman locked up. They have experienced depth on D for the next couple of years (Poti, Pothier and Erskine), but will need some new defensemen to step in to the remaining slots. If the Caps can get Backstrom signed to a reasonable long-term contract, they’ll have their #1 center, whereas the #2 center is a question mark. At RW, the Caps again have depth in the lower lines, but their #1 RW might be gone after this year and it’s unclear as to whether Flash could fill in there.
The top-tier prospects right now look to be: LW: Osala, Della Rovere?* C: Gustafsson, Perrault? Broda?, RW: Bouchard, Kugryshev, D: Alzner, Carlson, G: Varlamov, Neuvirth, Broda?
*I know Della Rovere isn’t a prototypical top-six winger, but his combination of skill and grit is intriguing enough to hold onto. Also, the Caps’ system is THAT shallow at wing.
The three C’s listed there conceal a lot of uncertainty. Broda is an unknown quantity, while Gustafsson has had difficulty remaining healthy and Perrault is undersized. You can look at this one of two ways. Either the Caps should hold onto all three in the hopes that one pans out, or they should look outside the system to fill in the #2 center slot in the future.
From this back-of-the-envelope analysis, I would argue that the Caps should be willing to part with defensemen and goaltenders, while shying away from trading any of their top-level wingers (Osala, Bouchard, Kugryshev, Della Rovere). Other than Alzner and Carlson, any D-man should be in play. The Caps could easily part with one of their top goalie prospects. Centers are a bit of a conundrum, as the Caps seem to be rather bottom-heavy. I would hold onto Gustafsson, since he has the most upside if healthy. Perrault would likely have to play on a top line in order to be effective, and he might never get a chance to do that for the Caps, so I would see him as expendable.
One last point: when it comes to draft picks, the Caps should be slightly more willing to part with their #1 than in years past. The late #1 picks end up being little better than early second rounders, and the Caps would be drafting quite late.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 12:37 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Rec’d. I will say this though: I think the team should be open to keeping Bourque because I think he’s next in line for a permanent NHL slot and should be on the team for good next year.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If GMGM has him penciled in for 3rd line wing, great. If not, he is THE offensive chip i would want to deal now.
by bigonetimer on Mar 3, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like watching C. Bo play, but I think he’s stuck in limbo. He has yet to develop the skill to stick on a scoring line and he’s not big enough to play on the bottom two. Maybe he can play on a top line for someone else?
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
CBo can’t bump Boyd Gordon or Flash or Eric Fehr out of a job and yet he can maybe play on a “top line” for someone else? Yeah, like Albany?
by TylerG on Mar 3, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Looking at Tampa and Toronto and Minnesota and Pittsburgh, I can think of at least 4 places off hand Bourque would be top six. I disagree though, on the statement he’s too small to be bottom six. He’s feisty as hell, which matters more, and I would use the third line as an energy line, fourth as a grind, and he’d work wonderfully on the third.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Having been a “short/feisty” player myself, I’d tend to agree with you. However, I think most NHL scouts and GMs disagree.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s a short and feisty player who had a great career, starting on the 3rd line and moved up. Granted, he played center.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dale_Hunter
Way to not work, link!
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s short and then there’s short.
Bourque is the latter.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“two inches” difference. Not that bad. Wittcap has probably a better feistmodel who fits.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The official Hershey page has him listed at 5’8", and I would guess that’s being generous. Hunter was a solid 5’10.
Anyhow, I’m not trying to bash on Bourque, but I think that his chances of sticking with the Caps are low, mostly because of his size. I don’t necessarily agree with that decision, but if that’s the case, he should probably be moved before he becomes labeled as an AHL player.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate SB Nation. I need to figure out how to link that crap.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve had decent luck with selecting whatever word/phrase I want to link to and then clicking the link button using the WYSIWYG format.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s such a bummer that he essentially drank himself out of the NHL. I loved watching him play.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget
the coke. (it explains alot really)
by wittcap79 on Mar 3, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cocaine’s a hell of a drug.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Mar 3, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if that explains the game he missed while he was with the Avs during the ‘99 playoffs. He couldn’t find a new dealer in Denver. Lot’s of snow, no blow.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s short and then there’s SHORT. Bourque is the latter. He’s freaking tiny. Like, Brian Gionta tiny.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TF gives Bourque a 4 inch height advantage.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TF = Theo Fleury. But that’s cool.
Can't we get Chris Bourque a red jersey now? Thanks.
by Whiter Mage on Mar 3, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry. My browser is wigging out on me. Things are getting posted all over where they shouldn’t be. :(
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The cap may not go down next year, because it will be based on this year’s revenue, and much of this year’s revenue is based on ticket sales from before the economy tanked. I’m guessing it will hold steady and then contract heavily in 2010.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, this year the #1 pick isn’t quite as valuable as it was in years past. If we part with some draft picks this season, It wouldn’t be so bad.
by CapitalsKremlin on Mar 3, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rec’d because, well, it’s great.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Mar 3, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree for the most part. Guys like Lepisto, Godfrey, Seabrook and perhaps Finley should be in play most readily. Bourque as well if there’s a market for him.
Given the uncertainty IRT Varlamov’s durability, I’d be hesitant to move a goalie right now. Neuvirth & Holtby may be more necessary than we think going forward.
One point I’d quibble with is that there are too many grinding wingers in the system. I don’t think there are enough. You’ve got SDR, Leffler I suppose and Osala to an extent. That’s about it and so they could use more wingers whose game is all about work ethic and grinding it out.
Considering their situation with the 50 contract limit, I’d wager on young players currently pro and under contract being the centerpieces of trades rather than guys that are still in junior or draft picks.
by Langway on Mar 3, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d disagree about the grinders in the system. Head on over to hockeysfuture.com and check out the Caps’s page. You have to take some of what they say with a grain of salt (and avoid the message boards like the plague), but they do give you a decent idea of where guys are in terms of talent/development.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps I should couch that statement towards effective NHL-potential grinders. HF says physical forwards in general but you’ve got to figure in centers like Beagle, Gustafsson and Taylor as being a decent part of that observation.
If anything, one of the more finesse wingers in Kugryshev/Bouchard could go IMO. But when it comes to guys that are all hustle and have the skill to match that battle level…I see that as a weak area beyond Osala, SDR and maybe Leffler. There’s also nothing close to a replacement for Brashear in the future, for instance, and I think the general lack of big wingers with a decent combination of skill and grit is why many Caps fans are so high on Osala as a player to hold on to.
by Langway on Mar 3, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I see where you’re coming from, but I think those “heart and soul” guys are easier to find. For example, GMGM got Beagle and Steckel for nothing – just signed them as free agents. Guys with skill are usually in higher demand.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do agree, however, that the Caps could use more wingers of every sort. It’s telling that their top wingers on the farm are all AHL veterans.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hershey’s top wingers, besides Giroux and Mink, also include Bourque, Osala, Bouchard, and Gordon, who are all prospects (and Bouchard and Osala are in their rookie year).
by Forsch31 on Mar 3, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. We’re talking about the Finnish Rookie of the Year, two QMJHL Scoring champions, an AHL all-star, and a seventh (ninth?) round nobody who is playing professionally at 22. We have plenty of talent.
Though Perrault’s not a winger, right? He’s a center.
by DrinkingPartner on Mar 3, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ah my bad, I missed the winger part of the previous comment.
by Sombrero Guy on Mar 3, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’ll be a W that can play C in the NHL if he can get there. I don’t think he’s big enough to battle with other NHL C’s down low.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 3, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Osala and Bouchard combined have about as many points as Graham Mink. Osala and Bouchard really slowed down after their torrid starts. Perrault is a center. Bourque is currently in his fourth professional season; he should be putting up decent numbers, but there’s a reason why he’s not playing in the NHL. Gordon projects as a 3rd/4th liner.
Based on their young age and past performance, I’m willing to say that Osala and Bouchard could become top-six forwards – and that still requires some development and optimism. The other guys project out as bottom-six forwards, if that. They’re nice pieces to have, but that doesn’t mean that the system is flush with skilled wingers.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As I pointed out, both Osala and Bouchard are [b]rookies[/b] to the AHL. They’re not expected to burn it up this year. The fact that they did in the early part of the season is a good sign. Bourque is on a normal developmental curve for prospects; he just turned 23 and was always going to be a project considering his size. He also has more points than Mink, who is supposed to score—that’s why they Caps and Bears signed him.
As for Gordon…You said “wingers of every sort.” That includes 3rd liners, does it not?
by Forsch31 on Mar 3, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Because of their age, I gave Osala and Bouchard a pass as potential “top-six” wingers. Let’s say we toss Bourque in there, too. That’s three guys (maybe four if we add Kugryshev).
Compare that to the Caps’ depth at defense: Alzner, Carlson, Seabrook, Finley, Godfrey, Mestery, Lepisto. It’s not even close. In fact, I don’t think there’s another franchise in the NHL that can equal the Caps when it comes to defensive depth through the organization.
As for “wingers of every sort,” the Caps need more wingers. Right now, they do what many teams do – they draft centers and shift them over. They’ll probably keep doing this, and as a result, the LW/RW numbers are probably artificially low, but still, more would be better. Given the logjam at D, I wouldn’t be surprised if GMGM didn’t start spending more picks on forwards.
Anyhow, I’m not trying to bust on the Caps’ prospects. I’m merely trying to discern where the system has depth and where it’s weak so as to determine which prospects should be held onto, and which could be traded. Paradoxically, I’m saying that we should hold onto Osala and Bouchard, despite their declining performance, precisely because there isn’t much in the system behind them, and if Kozlov walks and Semin asks for a huge contract increase, we’re going to need guys to fill in for them.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In fact, I don’t think there’s another franchise in the NHL that can equal the Caps when it comes to defensive depth through the organization.
LA Kings. Johnson, Doughty, Teubert, Hickey, Quincey, Greene, Harrold. That is just insane. They don’t have enough spots to play all those guys, much less money and cap space to pay them. But with sole regards to organizational depth at D I don’t see how this list can be beaten.
by Fehr and Balanced on Mar 3, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You got me.
I think you’re right. That is pretty damn sweet. However, I would say that the Caps’ crew has them beat as far as guys who are actually currently in the NHL.
Plus, Green is really, really good.
by D'ohboy on Mar 3, 2009 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
An MVP retort
I’ve started an informal petition that after his next meaningful goal Ovi needs to fly around the rink with his arms extended like a plane (or a wEagle).
We now return you to your regularly scheduled deadline prognostications, already in progress
by Icebat on Mar 3, 2009 3:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fehr can leave anytime. Does nothing for the Caps (to date); does nothing for me. Same goes for Flash.
by hotdog88gt on Mar 3, 2009 5:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fehr has been putting up points at the fourth best clip of anyone on the team (you can guess the top three I am sure) despite having one of the lowest quality of teammates ratings and rarely playing on the PP.
by David M. Getz on Mar 3, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i’m pretty sure those quality of teammate ratings were skewed by playing with Nylander for an extended period of time.
fehr and flash…they’re young guys. right now, if they are chipping in a goal here and there and staying on the right side of +/-, they’re doing the job. sometimes they are frustrating to watch – fehr, particularly, just seems clumsy. but – we have flash at another year for $750ish and i could see the team doing something like $1.25M for fehr for a couple seasons. you need guys like that for those salaries to work under the cap.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Mar 3, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was happy to read GMGM is...
…still looking LONG TERM when trading players. I hope that’s true and, if that’s true, I retract my earlier statement that Fehr can take a hike.
In that vein: folks, please do not bitch and whine if the Caps don’t get out of the first or second rounds!
by hotdog88gt on Mar 3, 2009 5:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
21 | 13 | 4 | 4 | 30 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
19 | 8 | 4 | 7 | 23 |
|
Atlanta
|
18 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 22 |
|
Florida
|
19 | 8 | 9 | 2 | 18 |
|
Carolina
|
21 | 4 | 12 | 5 | 13 |
(updated 11.20.2009 at 9:16 AM EST)
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
