"The ice was disgusting. Every game here, it is an embarassment. That's why so many guys get hurt with groins. It is a shame to be honest with you. The puck was like a bouncy-ball out there, jumping around and banging around. It is tough to handle the puck when it is like that. I can't imagine a guy like Alex Ovechkin on a decent sheet of ice how many goals he could get. A guy like Mike Green as well -- you look at the puck and it bouncing and rolling and flipping all over the place. The only good thing we have is that it's the same for both teams."
- Tom Poti, via Inside the Room
about 3 years ago
J.P.
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Poti is likely in part frustrated because the ice may have caused him to flub a clear late in the FLA 5-on-3. It sure looked like there were puddles out there at the time, too. I’m sure FLA was thrilled.
Hope management sees what Poti said. And listens.
Management sees a full house...
…and that’s enough for them. Yes, I’m being cynical but nothing’s been done despite the complaints and injuries, and it’s plain to see nothing will ever be done…
Would like to see CSN do a bit on the ice maintenance folks there. They did one in Buffalo a few months back, showing how they monitor the ice conditions. Those objects hanging from the roof of HSBC Center that I thought were mics are actually temp sensors.
There’s not much, if anything, management can do. Abe holds all the cards, and Abe doesn’t care. The only thing management could really do, then, is try to kill Abe…
…I think I’ve just stumbled on to GMGM’s secret plan.
The funny thing ....
Abe Pollin has a problem now, and I think that problem is a lot of the source of why the VC’s been colder than usual lately.
The Caps are the source of a lot of his revenues right now. The Wizards are plain not drawing the way the Caps are. Not even close. He may despise the Caps – but the money is talking to him, and it’s giving him a swift kick in the shorts. We’ll see how long he can ignore that.
Does Pollin get a share of the Capitals revenue or is it simply that he gets a flat rate for the team renting out the arena?
My understating is that Washington Sports and Entertainment gets a cut of gameday revenue in terms of concessions and things like that, not sure about tickets or any sort of “rent.”
by Kerry Fraser's Hairspray on Feb 8, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
+ Infinity.
Wish I could rec it as such.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
You know its bad when Poti of all people has to point it out.
by Simply Sensational on Feb 7, 2009 11:13 PM EST reply actions
If the media has now written something about it (again, I mean), has it been elevated to “issue” status?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Probably why Kozlov didn’t come back to play on it.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Btw, I included the entire quote, but have a slight disagreement with this line:
“The only good thing we have is that it’s the same for both teams.”
While factually true, the comment neglects to take into account that the impact of bad ice is by no means the same for both teams – it levels the playing field between a faster, higher-paced team and a slower squad… just ask Danny Briere.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Does the VC put the basketball floor down on top of the ice? That might help but it would probably chill the poor darlings in short pants.
I suspect someone will have to die before the situation will be remedied. The Ice has been dreadful from day 1 of this franchise. The same person has owned the building through the entire period.
Sucks but...
What is the point of the constant public bitching? Is that going to change it? The Wizards play there. The Hoyas play there. The Capitals play there. Scheduling around those three teams plus other events cannot be perfect.
The problem today was clearly that they had a basketball game at noon, which went into overtime. As they mentioned on the pre-game, the real complication is that during the basketball game the building is not cooled to the temperature it would be during a hockey game and there was virutally no time to get that accomplished with events starting 7 hours apart.
Perhaps in the future Ted will have more leeway in avoiding games that are on the same day as a basketball game. Then again he isn’t holdilng all the cards. Do you think he’d like giving up a Saturday night gate for a Sunday afternoon or Sunday night game? Maybe now that 17000 a night has been established we can afford to try that.
I want good ice, the players want good ice, I know Ted wants good ice. I just don’t see the benefit of complaining regularly to the media. Just because they may or may not be asked does not mean they need to opine publicly. It is indeed the same for both teams and, although I am certainly not lobbying to keep the ice crappy, perhaps our skill is high enough that we can overcome the bad ice and still make plays, whereas mere mortals not named AO or Greenie cannot.
The players should go to McPhee, McPhee should go to Leonsis and they should get on the same page. But again, what is bitching about it accomplishing? Frankly it just seems like they’re building up a cache of excuses.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
Sometimes, the public ‘bitching’ is what it takes. Shaming Polin and the organization into doing something about this is going to take at least some unfavorable press coverage. It may also take, unfortunately, a guy like Ovechkin or Green going down with a serious injury.
As far as scheduling and the difficulty of having a multi-use building – how is it any more difficult for DC tan it is in Boston, New York or Los Angeles? Don’t know how much external weather factors into this, but if Phoenix and Dallas can figure out how to maintain NHL caliber ice and balance NBA schedules then I expect we probably could too.
Phoenix can’t be counted in this as the Suns and Coyotes play in different buildings.
I wasn’t in the area until last year, but was the ice quality bad in the Capital Centre and at the then-MCI Center before Abe sold the team to Ted? When I was in Atlanta last month and caught a Thrashers game, the ice at Phillips Arena seemed marginally better though the temps outside were quite a bit below normal at the time.
I want good ice, the players want good ice, I know Ted wants good ice. I just don’t see the benefit of complaining regularly to the media. Just because they may or may not be asked does not mean they need to opine publicly.
Well when the owner’s response to the problem is along the line of, “Well if it were a problem, people would be talking about it”, it’s what you’d expect, isn’t it?
by David Getz on Feb 8, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bingo...
…when the owner has taken the public stance that nothing is wrong with the ice and that the Verizon Center is actually in the top third in the league for quality of ice, then it’s positively and painfully obvious to the players that nothing will be done unless they raise a stink.
by Forsch31 on Feb 8, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
While Pollin won’t do anything about equipment for the building that will help with the ice, Caps management should demand no more afternoon basketball games before hockey games and turn down the temperature in the building. Right now, the attendance at Caps games is high but the Wizards aren’t drawing so they might have some leverage. Afternoon Georgetown games should only be before the Wizards. (There is a Globetrotters before a Caps Saturday game in March.) Lincoln Holdings has about a 41% share in Washington Sports and Entertainment. They are not the majority partner but they are a partner that needs to complain loudly about this. Ted has said he thinks the ice is good. If it will take Poti and other players being vocal to get something, even just no more afternoon basketball, they should speak up. It is their health and their career. Wasn’t Poti out due to a groin injury? How many missed games are the Caps willingly to endure due to injuries from the ice conditions?
by NovaCath on Feb 8, 2009 1:22 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. Fortunately the ‘Buzzards’ season is over April 12.
I would tend to believe that what Ted says in his public statements about the ice and what he knows and believes are two different things. Much like when the Caps had injuries, nobody was going to come out and say “We expect to lose more because our best guys aren’t in there,” but you know they all couldn’t help but think that, at least subconsciously. There is no way in hell Ted is going on record as saying “Our ice sucks.” All that would be is laying the groundwork for people to use that as an excuse. It just irritates me that guys seem to conveniently bring up the ice at some times and not others. This is a real problem. The NHLPA player rep should be engaging the team management and NHLPA. Snide comments to media members accomplish zero other than giving us something to talk about when we are home alone. On a Saturday night. But I digress…
Russian Machine Never Breaks
I agree...
I think Ted keeps up a good front about the ice but knows it needs to be improved. Are his hands tied by Abe on this?
Snide comments
…from the players may be the only way the owner actually takes more than diplomatic action. How do you know they haven’t already tried the NHLPA route? (And Poti’s comments weren’t “snide”; they were frustrated and angry.)
The fact that our players are complaining about their home ice in a VICTORY and that our opponents are talking about how the ice helped them is not something you should brush off like Leonsis has. The problem is serious. It’s neutralizing the skill of our team and injuring players (what, you don’t think Johnson’s hip had anything to do with that rut he caught back in November?). Yeah, we’re winning, but imagine how we’d be playing with good conditions.
And what happens when Ovechkin gets a groin pull?
by Forsch31 on Feb 8, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or...
…you can look at it this way. It’s obvious that Leonsis can’t control what Pollin does, and he does know that the ice is an issue. As DMG pointed out, Leonsis once commented that if the ice really was an issue, why isn’t the media talking about it?
Maybe the comments are not directed at Leonsis. Wrong owner. It’s the guy who owns the arena, who could care less about what the NHLPA rep says, ‘cause he doesn’t own a hockey team.
Caps management should demand no more afternoon basketball games before hockey games and turn down the temperature in the building. Right now, the attendance at Caps games is high but the Wizards aren’t drawing so they might have some leverage. Afternoon Georgetown games should only be before the Wizards.
I don’t know much about how scheduling works in these multi-purpose buildings but wouldn’t that require (1) getting the NBA schedule-makers and the NHL schedule-makers on board and (2) altering the lease agreement with Georgetown?
They already have to work out the NBA and NHL schedules. Last weekend, there was a Saturday afternoon Caps games, a night Wizards game, and then an afternoon Caps game on Sunday. The afternoon basketball is almost always Georgetown or events like the Globetrotters. Abe doesn’t own Georgetown, they are a tenant like the Caps but they play less dates at VC then the Caps. This year there are less Georgetown/Caps double dates compared to last season (the Caps marketing dept even had packages last year for both games, which I find unbelievable as it encouraged this practice and the resulting terrible ice,) As a tenant, Georgetown probably gets what dates are available. I don’t understand why whoever sets the schedule at VC can’t be made to block out the afternoon of Saturday night Caps games as unavailable dates. I don’t know but I feel like the Caps allow it in order to get the Saturday night date which results in more tickets sold and this year in sell-outs.
The NHL and NBA schedule-makers have to work together to some degree in order to avoid conflicts but would they really be willing to work together to the extent that there needs to be a 24 hour open window before Capitals games? That seems like it would be a logistical nightmare.
As a tenant, Georgetown probably gets what dates are available. I don’t understand why whoever sets the schedule at VC can’t be made to block out the afternoon of Saturday night Caps games as unavailable dates.
I would doubt Georgetown’s lease agreement with the Verizon Center is constructed so as to be so unfavorable to the university that they basically get whatever dates are available after the Wizards and Capitals schedules are set. As for why the afternoons of Capitals games can’t be blocked out, it’s really a matter of revenue. Saturday afternoon is a big draw, especially for college basketball, and the VC managers are interested in maximizing their profit.
Doesn't the Big East
have certain days they typically play, such as Monday night? Not that the Caps are home much on Monday nights, but there is a certain structure to the Hoyas’ conference schedule, I would imagine.
Duck Around - a progressive blog about the Eastern Shore of Maryland. And getting off my lawn.
"Bad ice conditions also helped the Panthers neutralize the Capitals' skill advantage. "
This from the Sun-Sentinel story this morning. The VC Ice Situation is (apparently) known and appreciated by our opponents too.
(http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/hockey/panthers/sfl-flsppanthers08_specsbfeb08,0,30297.story)
See Peter DeBoer’s post-game interview on the Caps site. He was asked about the ice and his response was something along those lines. Hmm, will it be a legitimate problem now when opposition coaches start saying it’s giving them an advantage?
Leonsis isn’t stupid, he knows it’s a problem which is why he’s defensive about it. I don’t think money is the issue either. Per PPP, the de-humidification system installed at ACC was $4M. As capital improvements go, that’s nothing, so it’s got to be something else.
Yeah. Defer that over X years and you’re talkin’ about peanuts. $4 million would have kept Chris Clark healthy. Instead, the Caps have effectively burned over $4M worth of asset (given that Clark’s best asset was his speed, pre-injury).
Yes, if Clark’s injury was in fact caused by bad ice, that was costly. In the end, it probably doesn’t matter because if he and other players believe the ice was/is the source of their injuries, the damage is already done.
I don’t think Leonsis has shown a reluctance to spend so if this problem could be addressed by just throwing money at it, I think they would’ve done that already. This is just pure speculation on my part but it could be one of several things, a flaw in the original design criteria or a construction error, neither of which could be easily fixed without closing the space and replacing or significantly modifying the HVAC system. There could be a disagreement among building management, the engineering consultants and the so-called “ice experts” on what needs to be done to fix it which is hampering progress. Maybe nothing will fix it as long as the building is so heavily scheduled.
I think the cat’s out of the bag now though. We have to hope the higher visibility of the team, the complaints of the players and the MSM attention, not to mention the power that is Japers’ Rink :-) will result in some type of action. An acknowledgement from the owner that there IS a problem would be a first step in the right direction.
To put it in baseball terms, it would be like a team loaded with sluggers purposely pushing the fences 20 feet further from home plate. Lisa Hillary, who was between the benches, said it was incredibly warm down at ice level. Let’s hope that once the Wizards are done, Abe and his cronies will crank up the AC so they can get some decent ice.
Crank up? Or buy more units and dehumidifiers? I mean, I don’t have the foggiest idea what equipment is at the VC. And of course TEB is too go-along-to-get-along to really pursue the story, even after all the injuries.
Or maybe it’s that the powers that be at the Washington Post figure he has more interesting things to write about than the infrastructure of the VC’s air condition system.
When multiple Caps have said the ice was a contributing factor in their injuries and when multiple coaches have said that the ice is so bad that it disadvantages the home team, that’s a story.
I don’t disagree but there are other stories too, obviously, so something like that is going to sit on the back burner until there’s nothing else to talk about. It’s like how the fences at RFK were a lot further back than the Nationals said they were: everyone knew something was up from day one but no one reported on it for several months because there were other things to report on.
In any event, I really think if anyone’s at fault for it, it’s the editors, not Tarik.
I think there’s a difference, though. A deeper park affects both teams – and you can really take advantage of it by knowing where to hit. Bad ice effects both teams, but the playing surface for ice is never the same, even once. The second the ice is “ready”, it’s already changing. Ice is a constant change. Puddles form. Unless it’s raining, you don’t get puddle’s in baseball. Putting the walls further back is only really comparable to how old arenas used to have inconsistancies with different lengths between goal lines (The Aud in Buffalo comes to mind as being short.)
Your point is valid though. Why write about the ice when the team is so successful?
Football's boring. Get over it.
Because the WaPo and others are not supposed to cheerleaders. They are supposed to write important stories surrounding the team. Granted, there is only so many inches of newsprint the WaPo (and others…) can devote to the Caps, and the games seem to take up most of these inches, but the ice has been an issue for over one year now (for the “insiders” which TEB and CM are). I can see the Caps not wanting to publicly address the issue, but as so-called “responsible” entities, the MSM, should be obliged to report on such a topic — both from the injury perspective, and from the perspective that our team could be that much better if they did not skate on slop.
by Pi on Feb 9, 2009 6:48 AM EST up reply actions
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