Breaking Down the Capitals' Discipline "Problem"
by David M. Getz on Feb 24, 2009 12:00 PM EST
62 comments
Discipline has been a hot topic around the Capitals lately. Bruce Boudreau has said on several occasions that his team needs to take fewer penalties; the team was whistled for nine two-minute infractions in Sunday's win over the Penguins; and nearly forty percent of Japers' Rink readers identified 'discipline' as the single biggest hurdle on the road to a Caps Stanley Cup.
The topic of discipline is likely to be at the forefront of tonight's game as well. The Flyers have taken more minor penalties than anyone in the league other than Anaheim and have the NHL's fourth-best powerplay. On the other side, the Capitals have taken the fifth most minor penalties and are third in the league in powerplay conversions, including 13-for-36 (36.1%) in their last eleven games.
Given the recent attention given the topic, and the importance it's likely to play tonight, we thought today would be a good day to take a deeper look at the Capitals' penalty numbers. To start, here's a breakdown of the types of penalties the Capitals have taken this year by basic type and how they compare to the rest of the league:
[Ed. note: Rank is from most to least. In the table, HHT is "Holds, Hooks, Trips", a statistics originally published by STATS Inc as a measure of defensive play under the logic that these three infractions generally occur when a player is beaten and has to resort to a penalty to stop the opposition. Restraining Fouls are the infractions in HHT, plus holding the stick and interference, both goaltender and otherwise.]
Bruce Boudreau has said several times that he thinks three penalties per game is the optimal number; right now the Capitals are taking 3.12 penalties per game in restraining fouls alone. More importantly, the Capitals have taken more HHT penalties and more restraining foul penalties than any other team in NHL. How did a team that, as Bald Pollack noted in a recent Fan Post, took the seventh fewest minors in the NHL last season wind up with a discipline problem? Which Capitals players are the primary culprits? First let's take a look at which players are taking what penalties:
[Ed note: These tables are best viewed in the 'wide' page-viewing format. It can be changed by clicking 'wide' on the bar on the left hand side of the screen. Alternatively, click on the title or here for the two-column version of the post.]
Interesting enough, but it doesn't exactly hit on the problem we're trying to get at here. After all, Matt Bradley has taken just two minor penalties in the fifty-nine games he's played this season, but is very high on this list because of his six fights. With that in mind, let's see how the boys stack up in terms of HHT and restraining foul penalties per sixty minutes of ice time.
The results of sorting the players by Holds, Hooks, Trips per sixty minutes aren't necessarily all that surprising but they do raise a number of interesting questions, including:
- Is it possible to overrate Tom Poti's contribution to the Capitals lineup? The guy takes fewer restraining penalties than any other defenseman on the team, even though he plays against the best competition.
- Michael Nylander takes the fourth most HHT penalties per sixty of forwards on the team. Does this impact the decision about whether or not to buy him out in the offseason?
- There are a number of players on this list - Brooks Laich, Karl Alzner, Tomas Fleischmann (for most of the season) - who take very few restraining fouls but also have bad plus-minus ratings on the season. Is it possible these guys are taking too few penalties?
- Matt Bradley has exactly zero restraining penalties in almost eleven hours of on ice time. Anyone else want to see what he can do against better opponents?
- Sergei Fedorov is awfully high on this list for a guy who's supposed to be the team's best defensive forward. But then again, how many of his penalties came in game where he was playing on the blue line, away from his natural center position?
- Milan Jurcina takes a lot of restraining penalties and a lot of HHT penalties even though he plays against fairly weak competition. Given that he has almost no offensive upside, should the Capitals be looking for another defenseman as the trade deadline approaches?
But those questions are all just anecdotal asides compared to the issue of the team simply taking far too many avoidable penalties. So what's the solution? Should players who take unnecessary penalties see their ice time reduced or even spend time in the press box? Does the team need someone to step up in the locker room and call out his teammates? Or should the team keep on doing what it's doing and hope the problem will fix itself?
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I’m surprised to see Mo that low on /60 lists, frankly (behind Juice, Ersky and Green, despite playing tougher competition). Obviously it’s more the “when” than the “how many” with him.
And yet another metric where Jeff Schultz looks great….
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Feb 24, 2009 12:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
the list didn’t include stupid high sticking penalties, or pucks over the glass
by Sombrero Guy on Feb 24, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mo doesn’t have any puck over the glass this year, I don’t think. He does have five high sticks which is partly why his RF/60 is 0.74 and his minors/60 is 1.54.
by David M. Getz on Feb 24, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, now that you’ve said it…
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Feb 24, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really really really really feel like Mo has one or two very untimely puck-over-glass.
by FFSEnough on Feb 24, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I’m sure he’s got at least one.
by gotsparkly on Feb 24, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, he does have at least one.
Unfortunately I can’t find a place that gives puck over the glass stats.
by David M. Getz on Feb 24, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I bow to you sir, in awe and wonder.
Rec’d.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Feb 24, 2009 12:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, BP. Nice to know the work is being appreciated.
by David M. Getz on Feb 24, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hear hear! Great work DMG. The effort shows.
by Gould Old Days on Feb 24, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and to answer your question, I think there’s gotta be some more accountability to each other in the room. You’d think adding a former 2 time Selke winner would have minimized minor infractions, rather than made them worse. They’ve committed 4.46 PIMs/game in minors last year alone, and they’re putting 5.08 PIMs up there now. If the PK remains unchanged, that’s 1 PPG/game before they’ve even stepped on the ice.
For what it’s worth.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Feb 24, 2009 12:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Or maybe it’s not. It only doth make the probability a touch higher.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Feb 24, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This goes back to leadership and how the Caps seem to be missing it.
It isn’t as drastic as what you say, but your point is well taken. Taking penalities disrupts everything from rolling lines to game momentum. And restraining fouls (goalie interference excepted) have no up-side.
by Sct112 on Feb 24, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Half Word.
Let me try to go one further and pose that it’s more coaching than leadership. Consider:
Obviously the team bought into the style last year, hence they didn’t spend so much time in the box. The PK has struggled to stay around 80% both years.
Take a look at the impact of coaching. Using Claude Julien as a comaprison (since the B’s have scored 1 fewer goal and have given up 35 less), I noticed:
Julien coached teams take fewer penalties. Look at the year before he coached in NJ and his only year there, and the Devils were first both years, but the difference in minors committed was amazing (389 to 311), and the PK improved as well (81.9% to 85.2%).
Now take Boston. From the year before he got there (in ‘06-’07) to today, they’ve gone from 28th to 4th in minors committed, and from 19th to 6th in PK%.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Feb 24, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Alzner
The name that really struck me is Alzner. For a rookie to be making so few mistakes tells me he’s either really good or really afraid to push the envelope. I have a sense that lately it’s been more of the latter and that he’s been sitting back and afraid to challenge guys for fear of putting the team down a man. I also think he’s watched the steady stream of Caps to the penalty box and realizes that as a rookie he shouldn’t be adding to the problem. It’s a fine line for a defenseman between being penalty prone and being agressive and probably the best place for him to learn the difference is at Hershey. Penalties are bad, but sometimes not taking any is even worse.
by b.orr4 on Feb 24, 2009 12:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
1) Alzner doesn’t have many PIM’s in hershey either so he’s obviously a smart AND talented player.
by Fauxrumors on Feb 24, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No one questions that. I think it’s a fair question as to whether he could stand to be a little more aggressive and less conservative in his play.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Feb 24, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or he’s very good AHL player right now.
by b.orr4 on Feb 24, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
defense
I think that Alzner was learning pretty well while with the big club. I know that his #‘s have been quesitonable, but considering some of the other liabilities they seem to trot out onto the blue line, I’d say it’s well worth the risk to let Karl continue to play in Washington.
Think the Caps might be interested in Leopold from Colorado? And would he be an improvement?
by mechanicsville on Feb 24, 2009 12:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like Bradley a lot, but unfortunately his offensive abilities (or lack thereof) justify leaving him on the 4th line, I think.
That said, I’d rather he get big minutes than Nylander…
by grapejoos on Feb 24, 2009 12:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I have no desire to see more Bradley right now.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Feb 24, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s a run of stats from Caps Today that is quite striking (and I even bolded key parts for additional dramatic impact!):
Washington has scored on 13-of-36 power-play opportunities in the last 11 games (36.1), including a 2-for-3 effort Sunday against Pittsburgh. The Capitals’ opponents in that time have received 23 more power-play opportunities but have scored four fewer goals (9-for-59, 84.7 penalty killing). In the third period of those 11 games, the Capitals have had just four power plays; their opponents have had 26.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Feb 24, 2009 12:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Is this a conditioning thing? It doesn’t seem likely to me but that is what those stats would point at.
by Sct112 on Feb 24, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting question.
I’d say “no” to physical conditioning, and a strong “quite possibly” to mental conditioning.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Feb 24, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it is the jerseys. I have a red car and I noticed I got busted more by the cops. Was I speeding? Yes, but I was also speeding in the beige car too.
by RED503 on Feb 24, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Quite possible. Studies have shown bright cars like that get pulled over more and studies have shown that referees are more likely to target teams wearing black. It’s not that far a stretch to think to think the red might play a role.
by David M. Getz on Feb 24, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d say it plays a role when the numbers are 10 to 12, but 4 to 26 is another story.
I think someone mentioned a while back that the caps have been called for more stick HHTs than any other team, so while they may actually be committing those penalties, the refs are also more likely to call them because of a reputation rather than letting them slide for a team that doesn’t do it so often
by snowburnt on Feb 24, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that’s what I thought too, but I think we have a couple young guys who won’t move their feet and put themselves in better position in the defensive posture either leaving the offensive zone or in the neutral zone. I think part of it is style and system—BB wants to press and when you do that, you can get caught in transition, and you end up reaching for someone with your stick. I got a drachma that says half of Semin’s and Backi’s HHT fouls are in the offensive zone; data sages, is there an easy way to ID where penalties occur?
Those offensive zone infractions must simply stop.
by bigonetimer on Feb 24, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah man, i saw that in the game notes and my jaw dropped.
by sexypills03 on Feb 24, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What is even more bothersome is that those 3rd period penalties always seem to happen consecutively. Either it results in a 5-on-3 or a very very long penalty kill. The latter does two things. First, it tires out the good penalty killers (Poti, etc). Two, it keeps the high scoring lines off the ice.
by renstar on Feb 24, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it’s possible to break this down, but the real killer is when these penalties are committed in the offensive/neutral zone or when we’re already a man down. I can live with the normal stuff that happens while playing defense.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Feb 24, 2009 12:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agree.
The flat-footed delay of game penalties (of which we’ve seen a few in the past couple weeks) also really bother me.
by grapejoos on Feb 24, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
delay's
Couple weeks ago, there was a mirror-image delay of game on Feds and Backs, almost back-to-back. On BOTH replays, you can see the puck catch an edge as they are firing the pass and it takes off on them. Same happened with Greener the other night when he got one called on him after taking a puck to the face. As he’s passing it up, puck catches an edge in the ice and sails.
They are frustrating penalties, but most of the time, especially with the skill guys, they are not trying to do it. The ones where a guy’s near the boards and is trying to clear the zone by going high on the boards, and just misses. That’s another where they’re trying to make the right play, they just didn’t execute.
by FFSEnough on Feb 24, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for mentioning those, because those were the 3 I was thinking of. I guess these guys are passing so hard that an edge can send them flying that far, but I remember wondering for all 3 of them why they were even trying to bank it off the glass from there.
The ones along the boards I can forgive more easily, because I know what they’re trying to do and they just screw it up. With those 3, I was baffled as to what the intended effect even was.
by grapejoos on Feb 24, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Intended effect could have just been to clear the zone without icing the puck. Feds had a target (flash was heading up the side but had a player in the main passing lane), but Backstrom’s mirror image of Feds’ and Greener’s, i still think were just attempts to clear the zone. I seem to remember though, neither backs nor feds were pressed and didn’t need to make the pass.
Green on the other hand had just been clobbered in the face with a wrist shot and probably didn’t quite have a handle on where he was.
by FFSEnough on Feb 24, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you. What I meant to say before was thanks for providing a little more context on those – I didn’t check the replay to see what they were trying to do, but they’re such smart players that I was totally baffled as to why they did it (or why Boudreau didn’t have steam coming out of his ears). I think Green’s might have been semi-concussed as well.
by grapejoos on Feb 24, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What doesn’t surprise me is that Semin is at the top of this list… he takes a lot of lazy penalties. That’s something that will hopefully leave his game as he matures.
This chart also shows a lot about how effective Jeff Schultz is too. His +/- is very good and he doesn’t take many penalties, considering he has little to no offensive value, he’s certainly doing his job. A coworker of mine indicated about Schultz that all he seems to do is get pucks out of the Caps end and get them deep into the opponents end… sounds like a good plan to me.
As for Brads, he’s begining to see time on the 3rd line and may see more of it if he keeps playing like he does. He’s a bit of a pest too, and I think he might be a really good candidate for an Esa Tikkanen type role as a shadow. Get under the opponent’s skin, stay with him, etc. Would come in handy against a team in the postseason that relies a lot on one or two players (Carolina with Staal and Whitney, Pittsburgh with you-know-who and Malkin, New Jersey with Elias…)
Jurcina…if he spent the rest ot the season in the Press Box, I wouldn’t miss him.
by MikeL-Caps on Feb 24, 2009 12:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The question about how hard our players should press is interesting to me. I watched Semin closely against the Pens and while I think he is trying really hard to create turnovers with his stick I wonder if he would be better off trying less on defense. Semin doesn’t have the weight to knock players off the puck and I think he has developed a bad reputation among the officials (deserved or not) as a menace with his stick and a diver. Personally I would be fine with Semin controlling his position with his speed and use his stick less.
by RED503 on Feb 24, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When we played the panthers a few weeks ago, Semin pulled off on of those borderline geniuss/stupid plays that that went uncalled for but almost worked.
As Semin dropped the puck off for someone to shoot while the defender tried to block the shot (not sliding across – but the Dman stood straight up with his legs locked together ) Semin got out of the way of the shooter but stuck his stick in the middle of the defender’s legs and pried them open, just enough for the shot to go through. Vokoun made the save and the dman fell down – wondering where the tripping call was. (you couldn’t see it on the tv replay – so it went pretty unnoticed)
2 things came to mind when I saw that (I’ve never seen that before).
1) That was genius move if it worked
2) Semin’s an idiot cause that should have been a penalty.
I’m amazed that he had the ‘brains’ to pull something like that off, but at the same time, that kind of ‘over trying’ is/has bitten us in the ass and needs to stop.
I love the fact he’s trying, but he’s got to realize you can’t pull that crap every day and get pissed when it gets called.
by vt caps fan on Feb 24, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For fun watch the third period from the past few games on fast-forward on your DVR. Watching the power-play timer run down and reset over and over again is really eye opening. You can only blame the officials so much before you have new refs to blame.
by RED503 on Feb 24, 2009 12:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Feds' Hooking Penalties
Let me start by saying something that sounds like a broken record… I don’t like complaning about refs. Even the stats posted by Japer from Caps Today, A lot of the things we have done recently have been penalties and we are being called for them. I think a problem that the team might be getting into is reputation. Over the past 3-4 games, I have see so much go uncalled early in the game that guys might get to the point of “Oh, well they can trip Backstrom like that…guess I can to.” Cases in point: Trip on Semin in Pen’s game. Interference on Nylander mid 3rd period (checked from behind near boards before puck got to him). Every time those go uncalled, some guys see that as an invitation to do that.
With Fedorov, it’s a little different, and I’m almost tempted to start taking data on this. When he’s playing catch up (through fault of his or someone else) he’s constantly giving the puck carrier whacks with his stick. To me, they’re just “hi how are you” whacks, but on some nights, the ref’s seem to whistle him VERY quickly. Yes. stick parallel to the ice in the hands is a hook, but you would think there has to be some restraining type of action, which Feds typically doesn’t do, yet he gets called.
It’s the type of play that was completely legal before the lockout, but has been frowned upon since. Some nights the refs let him get away with it. Some nights they whistle him fast. Inconsistency like that can cause a guy’s numbers to jump.
Can someone dig up where we rank on puck-over-glass penalties?
by FFSEnough on Feb 24, 2009 1:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think you nailed it. Brashear said that they expect penalties because the winning team often gets penalized more especially in the third period. I’m curious if the Red Wings, Sharks, and Bruins have the same problem or if The Donald is just making excuses for himself and his teammates.
by RED503 on Feb 24, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's the only part of hockey I can't stand...
Sure, if you blew the whistle on every infraction, the game would have no flow. But when you favor calls towards a trailing team, you are artificially leveling the playing field. Why did Crosby not get called for his altercation with Ovie. It should have been an interference penalty + roughing (when Ovie was giving him his “let’s just be friends” hug, Crosby gave him a shot to the face).
Stuff like that drives me crazy. I also can’t stand the “it’s late in the game, swallow your whistle” thing. Not all teams are built the same. Some are built for more dominate 5 on 5. Some for better special teams. When you ignore penalties just cause it’s late in the game you could be taking away a team’s designed advantage.
I think after last year’s playoffs, all we want as Caps fans is a fairly called game. Poti absolutely tripped the flyer that cost us the game, but he also, just 15 seconds before, at the same spot in the ice, tripped a flyer and didn’t get called. If you swallow your whistle once, you better keep it there for the same BS. If you’re gonna call Goalie interference on Kozlov when he was checked into Biron, you have to call it on whoever it was that cleared Huet out.
by FFSEnough on Feb 24, 2009 1:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It's the only part of hockey I don't understand...
I know there isn’t an exact science to who gets the calls and when but I know sometimes there is some subjectiveness to it that we as fans can’t see or hear. I remember one post-game interview they asked John Erskine what the ref said to him after a certain play and he said “That is my freebie for the day”. as a fan how can we know when they let a call slide before calling something after they noticed a pattern or warned the team/player. It is a no win situation but the fact that we have this thread probably means either the team has developed bad habits or there is a league wide conspiracy against them despite having a top five record.
by RED503 on Feb 24, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As an actual official
(Although I am a USTA Pro Tennis Official.. not hockey. Hell.. I can barely skate!!!)
One of the things we are taught is to caution players even when we can’t call a foul. The rule for officiating is clear (in all sports): If you didn’t clearly see it with your own eyes, it didn’t happen.
So when we see something that we know was probably a foul, or borderline enough to raise an eyebrow we, in tennis, use what is called 90-Second Diplomacy. This means that when play is stopped on the 90 second change over you go to a player and say something like “You need to be careful with the foot faults or I am going to call you on it” or “Careful with the {some questionable behavior}. One more and it will be a Code Violation”.
Its not like we’re giving “free passes” but the situation was enough to warrant our attention but not enough to actually prompt a game-interrupting call. A simple comment to a player to let them know it is not going unnoticed helps keeps the game in-line and manageable without becoming overly officious.
I suspect Hockey Refs operate under similar guidelines. The goal is fair and continous play. Call the fouls when they occur, but the more you can do during the stoppages to help manage the game and keep it under control the better. If the players want to ignore that, then we’re all going to hear a lot of whistles.
by Wisper on Feb 24, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really wish all hockey refs used the “if we didn’t see it, it didn’t happen” logic consistently. In my opinion that’s how a game SHOULD be called, even though it can be frustrating at times.
The one area where this really drives me nuts is high-sticking penalties. Officials guess on those all the time. There’s even a (official?) rule that I despise: the double-minor-if-there’s-blood rule. Totally idiotic, and it sanctions guessing by the officials.
Refs can’t be perfect. All you can ask is consistency in any given game. In a sport where there is an unofficial rule that officiating completely changes when the playoffs begin, I don’t think you can hope for more than that. The Poti sequence from Game 7 last year is a perfect example of how NHL officials consciously decide not to call obvious penalties based on game situations. It’s a joke.
by grapejoos on Feb 24, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally idiotic, and it sanctions guessing by the officials.
I don’t follow.
by David M. Getz on Feb 24, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure what you don’t follow, but to elaborate on my criticism of the high-sticking rule, it is penalizing outcome, not the actual recklessness of the play. I may just interpret the high-sticking penalty totally wrong, but in my mind the double-minor should be for reckless use of the stick, as opposed to accidental/incidental. The severity of every other penalty I can think of depends on what the penalized player actually does, not what happens to the person that was hit.
The way it actually works in most cases is that the refs will call high sticking any time someone is hit up high (regardless of whether their teammate did it) and base the minor/double minor decision entirely on whether there’s blood. Both of those things really bother me.
by grapejoos on Feb 24, 2009 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember it used to be almost automatically a 5 minute major if there was blood. How ridiculous was that?
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Feb 24, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I see your point about the minor versus double minor decision, I just wasn’t sure about the guessing aspect but I do agree that it’s a shame when players get sent to the box when the guy who wound up bloody wound up that way because of his own stick or a teammates.
by David M. Getz on Feb 24, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the NHL has consciously decided to do that with high-sticking for a reason, I just don’t agree with that reason.
I understand these are hard calls to make and that everything is happening really fast. That’s why I just want consistency. It’s understandable that individual mistakes will be made, but it’s not understandable when the same action carries different consequences.
/beating dead horse
by grapejoos on Feb 24, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One thing that struck me was how far down on the list Ovie is. I’ve seen people complain on this board that there’s a double-standard in evaluating Semin’s boneheaded penalties v. Ovie’s. The fact is, Ovie takes less of them – like 2/3 less – so there’s a valid reason for the double standard. Oh yeah, in addition to the obvious reason.
by Ginga on Feb 24, 2009 1:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think a big part of it is ice time. Ovechkin has more minors than anyone else on the team but he has also played more minutes.
by David M. Getz on Feb 24, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To incorporate part of DMG’s comment, Ovi takes more penalties than Semin, but they’re typically not stick infractions. If he weren’t so amazing at everything else, I think more of us would be questioning Ovechkin in the same way we do Semin. Ovi, Semin, and Fedorov are all taking too many penalties right now, IMO.
by grapejoos on Feb 24, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I once heard the phrase, ‘errors of enthusiasm’ which describes a fair amount of Ovie’s penalties. A hard hit turns into a charge. Timing turns a clean hit into interference. Now, I’m not going to say he hasn’t taken the classic bad penalty here and there, but Semin’s are almost exclusively of the bad variety.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Feb 24, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that’s a fair statement. Except for some of Ovi’s more boneheaded penalties (like the retaliation vs. NYR, however chippy that was), I can live with his calls because I want him to keep playing close to the edge like that. Semin is far more vexing, to state the blatantly obvious.
by grapejoos on Feb 24, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention he’s 4th among NHL forwards in hits. I’m sure he would reduce his PIMs if he stopped hitting so much. In other words: carry on.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Feb 24, 2009 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Another Take...
Based on this stated assumption:
these three infractions generally occur when a player is beaten and has to resort to a penalty to stop the opposition
Could you draw the following conclusion:
The same Caps team as last year, is taking more HHT penalties because it has a low-level lack of confidence in the last line of defense; Theodore?
Could the boys be afraid that Theo isn’t dependable enough to stop odd-man breaks, and are subsequently doing too much?
Just a thought.
by marks4java on Feb 24, 2009 4:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Counter Point
They believe that their skill can outweigh fundamentals.
by Sct112 on Feb 24, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope they don’t think that. As skilled as the Capitals are, they play in a league with the most skilled players in the world and the gap between them and their opponents isn’t always going to be big enough for them to win on skill alone.
by David M. Getz on Feb 24, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bench Minors
Are they broken out by type anywhere? We’ve got to be at or near the league leaders in too-many-men, right?
by Scott in Shaw on Feb 24, 2009 4:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Too many men, closing hand on puck and delay of game. I’m sure we scored the hat trick.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
by macvechkin on Feb 24, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
22 | 13 | 5 | 4 | 30 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
19 | 8 | 4 | 7 | 23 |
|
Atlanta
|
18 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 22 |
|
Florida
|
20 | 9 | 9 | 2 | 20 |
|
Carolina
|
21 | 4 | 12 | 5 | 13 |
(updated 11.21.2009 at 12:53 AM EST)
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
