Caps reassign Alzner
Per the AHL transaction page, Karl Alzner has been returned to Hershey. King Karl has a minus-9 rating since December 22, the worst giveaway/takeaway ratio of all Caps blueliners and the highest GAON/60 of all Caps rearguards at both 5-on-5 and 4-on-5. Is it possible that he's just not ready?
almost 3 years ago
J.P.
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He was ready before the organIzation started treating him like a human yo-yo. It feels like Alzner’s rookie season has been a victim of the Caps’ proximity to the cap: You try being 20 and being jerked back and forth between the AHL and NHL, complete with attendant effects upon confidence, conditioning, physical growth, etc. Real simple: The Caps mismanaged the salary cap and Alzner paid the price. Over and over and over and over….
taking a page out of your own book,
“Really?” Let’s not get too overly dramatic.
Alzner is a very good prospect, but the answer to our defensive woes? No. He’s 20 and inexperienced, and needed a half season at least with the Bears to start with. He can get it together in Hershey and bring him back up for the stretch.
I think you missed my point rather entirely And where did I say he was “the answer to our defensive woes?”
no, I got your point—it’s the handling of salary cap you’re blaming, when it’s his evident inexperience you should be examining.
And if GMGM and Co. can mismanage the cap to the tune of 36 wins in 57 games, well, I think we can all live with that.
I think Alzner has exceeded expectations on the big club this year. I also think it’s a mistake to project a desire for him to be the next Scott Stevens—the guy who comes up and stays up for the rest of his career and doesnt’t spend another day in the minors.
He’s going to be fine, and will probably be called up (again) before the end of the week
by bigonetimer on Feb 17, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
Check it out though, he was reassigned Saturday, recalled Sunday and reassigned yesterday. Maybe they’re running close to the cap again?
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
If they are, there are two possible scenarios for why. Either Brian Pothier could return (remember he took morning skates in full gear over the weekend – I think all he’s awaiting is medical clearance) or we’re about to make a trade. Given that we had scouts at the COL/MIN game last week, I’m thinking something’s up.
No, this is a legit demotion. If they could afford him on Sunday, they could afford him today and tomorrow – nothing else has changed.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Yeah, but they did that to Sloan at the end of October, and they definitely could have afforded him. I don’t disagree with the second part of the statement about readiness, but I’m just going to wait for the press release just to be sure.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Feb 17, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
Salud!
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Feb 17, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t post baseless garbage, BP. You should know that. :)
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I will take the mismanagement every season if they can have a record like they have.
I really like Alzner and would like to see him in the NHL, but with eight healthy defenseman in the NHL I think the best place for Alzner today is in the AHL.
by CapsFanSince1979 on Feb 17, 2009 9:02 AM EST reply actions
Agreed. It’s hard to fault management with their personnel decisions when the team is running away with their division and second in the east. Sure, Nylander was a mistake but when GM made the deal we all applauded it. The bottom line is Karl’s play has slipped of late. His misread in the Ranger game was a classic rookie mistake. The back and forth may be screwing with his mind, but right now McPhee has to do what’s best for the team not Alzner and if that means going back to Hershey for a while, so be it.
As I think is pretty clear: I was speaking about the team’s decisions regarding one player and the impact of those decisions on his development.
And it’s entirely possible to fault management on specific decisions whether they’re 2d-T in the East or not. Being second in the East doesn’t mean they’ve gotten everything right. That kind of homerism is OFB-level.
Sure, it’s possible that he’s not ready yet. He’s 20, for Pete’s sake. We’re looking at him like some kind of Jesus. He’s not Alex Ovechkin or Nicklas Backstrom, and D guys take longer to mature. We simply have enough D that we don’t need him up here, and he’ll get the ice time he needs to develop in Hershey. Plus I’m sure they’ll appreciate the boost – they need help down there right now!
The sky isn’t falling, yet. Talking like we’ve ruined him forever is chicken-littleish. You want to talk about someone potentially ruined, talk Michal Neuvirth. Talk about a trade yo-yo. And we’re not thinking he’s dead yet.
That’s how you’re coming off, though. You come off like you’re in a panic that he’s being ruined and blaming management for it, and I think that’s both inaccurate and overdramatic. There’s LOTS of forces at work here, including a potential deadline trade as I mentioned above. He’s got issues – he probably just plain isn’t ready, and is now proving it. We yoyoed Sloan too, remember, at least as much, and it didn’t seem to affect him as badly. I think it’s plain inexperience and lack of room in the roster right now. He needs to go back to Hershey – okay.
Your imagination is adding the drama. If you’re looking for something to get worked up, go to it. But don’t attribute it to me.
You’re the one getting worked up at management over something that happens in hockey sometimes, and I’m not the only one telling you you’re getting overwrought. shrug This is a stupid and pointless argument, so I’ll leave it there.
I still think that we’re getting someone else, be it Pothier or a deadline acquisition. ‘Tis the season for the hot stove, and we’ve all been clamoring for a veteran D who hits. Let’s see what happens. Hershey needs the boost, and with eight D, Alzner isn’t going to get the ice time he needs to continue to develop. We’ll see him again, there’s no doubt.
Frankly, I think Tyler’s point is a good and fair one – it’s not today’s cap issue that’s the problem (they “lucked out” with Clark), it’s the year-to-date issue and what it forced the team to do.
Alzner has not played well lately – fact
Alzner played well early on – fact
Alzner would have benefited from a continuous stay in Washington rather than going back and forth as guys got healthy/hurt – valid opinion
I’m not sure what the problem is.
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by J.P. on Feb 17, 2009 10:14 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I’m not either, but the most likely answer is probably that bouncing around hasn’t helped and that he is a very young defenseman. Even the play he’s shown lately – lackluster as it’s been – isn’t bad for someone so young. We’re just used to better and know he can be better.
The Good Alzner will be back. No need to worry about that.
jp, ,just out of curiosity, who’s salary on this current roster do you think McPhee overpaid? Nylander is the easy answer, but just about everybody thought getting him was a real good deal at the time. So unless you were screaming to the heavens two summers ago how the Caps got taken, he shouldn’t count. I’m looking down the list and frankly I’m not seeing anybody who a) I don’t want on the team or b) is grossly overpaid.
I’d have loved to see Feds at $3m. I think they got screwed by the arbitrator on Mo, and Brash makes a little more coin than I think he’s worth.
But for the most part, I’d agree – there isn’t too much dead cap space here that you could’ve seen coming when the respective deals were signed.
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Feds
If he wants to come back at that money, do you resign him?
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Feb 17, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll answer that question in June.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Depends on his post-season play
He’d have to really show some veteran star-studdedness to sink another 4 million into a 40-year old player on a team that has a lot of offensive talent to go around.
That $4M could go a long way to shoring up the D-line or bringing in someone a LOT more physical for the 3rd or 4th line to help balance us out.
But it is Mr. Sergei Fedorov we’re talking about; for all we know he’ll go flat-out stratospheric in April/May and we’ll be calling for GMGM’s head if he doesn’t whip out the checkbook.
Unless we unearth our future #2 C at the deadline or certainly before the end of the summer, I think we have to bring him back if he wants to play, and if it’s 3M or 4M, pay the man.
by bigonetimer on Feb 17, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Mo's gone at the end of this year.
He hasn’t earned what the arbitrator gave him, let alone what he is rumored to want.
At this stage, I don’t think its a bad idea. If nothing else, he gets more consistent playing time. He wasn’t going to up here with 8 defensemen, and isn’t he the only one that can go down without waivers? Kronwall has to go 30 days or 10 games, right?
I agree that Alzer’s play was better before the back and forth. And whether or not the cap is the culprit now, he has been a victim of the Caps being so close to it all season.
THREADJACK
looking for two upstairs for Sunday. anyone? anyone?
/end jack
"Where there is beer, there is hope." - me
2 things:
1. Congrats JP on scooping the msm. This blog has become my first stop for my morning Caps content. Keep up the awesome work.
2. It’s possible that Alzner’s struggles are a result of him going up and down. But it’s at least as likely that he just hit the wall in his first year like so many other rookies do, especially on the blue line. I don’t see any evidence that it’s the former that’s the real issue here.
Please be kind my first post.
Personally I would prefer to have most the younger players stay in the minors. The percentage of under 22 year olds ready are low. Hopefully he is mentally prepared for all that being a professional athlete throws at them. I have no doubt that the mental aspects are tough but I would imagine the physical aspects are far harder to manage.
I agree with you, Pigeonhed.
Alzner’s going to be rock solid, I feel. But at the same time, he’s struggling, and we don’t want to over work the guy. Send him to Hershey, and let him play a few games, maybe the rest of the season.
One factor is that hockey in November, December is MUCH different than hockey in Jan-Feb. And in March, hockey changes completely again. I think the kid’s just tired. Give him some development time.
How the HELL does Shaone Morrisonn keep getting a sweater?
by Whiter Mage on Feb 17, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I'd rather see him develop in Hershey
then trip up in the 2nd round of NHL Playoff Hockey (the intensity of which is nothing Alzner has EVER experienced) when we’re facing someone like the @#$%-ing Flyers.
Still.. the guy is clearly destined for a prime-spot on an NHL top Blueline.
While he hasn’t experienced the NHL playoffs, he has been in some pretty big international do or die games on team canada.
by Sombrero Guy on Feb 17, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
A confidence issue?
I wonder if it’s not the case that Alzner’s basically NHL ready but lacking in confidence because of his recent slide. When that happens it’s easy for a player, especially a 20 year old, to start trying too hard and to get away from their game.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the demotion was, in part, to get Alzner’s confidence back by letting him get back to playing his game, seeing success doing so, and being ready for when he hits a rough patch at the NHL level.
And I think this gets back to one of Tyler’s points – it no doubt is tough to have full confidence when you are worried that any mistake could get you sent back to Hershey.
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by J.P. on Feb 17, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s a fair point as well.
I won’t pretend I know what’s going on with Alzner better than anyone else, but I do think the issue of a near-elite player adjusting to the NHL is one that’s underplayed. A guy like Alzner has either immediately been or quickly become a stud on every team he has ever played on – suddenly that’s not the case in the NHL. That makes it easy for someone to think they need to change their game when the really don’t.
So, send him to Hershey for ten games, let him realize that the way he’s been playing for 15 years is the way he needs to play to be successful, and bring him back up in March to see if he can help for the playoffs.
You make an excellent point about adjustment to the NHL game. Alzner was in juniors this time last year, and had virtually no seasoning in Hershey before coming up to staunch some of the 240+man games we’ve lost to injury this year. His hitting the wall was inevitable, and the reassignment will do the kid a lot of good.
As fans, our expectations can get warped and it ’s easy to blame something like cap management on what is a simple NHL reality, especially on the blueline.
by bigonetimer on Feb 17, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
Plus, the coaches need some ice-time
to evaluate Kronwall. I suspect that in a dozen or so games they’ll have had enough and a coached and counseled Alzner will be back in the VZ to help for the playoff push and Kronwall will be suiting up for the Bears.
(then again… who knows what plots and intrigues GMGM has planned for March 4th)
Its also different hockey now that it was 3 months ago. We have all commented on the fact that games after the break are a different beast than the games before. It could be that he was ready for games in November, and not so ready in Feb.
He’s talked alot of giving up his superstitions, maybe they were helping him ;)
A more important question is, will he be called up come April?
it no doubt is tough to have full confidence when you are worried that any mistake could get you sent back to Hershey.
That may be true, but dealing with adversity is also part of the maturation process of becoming a pro. If Karl’s feeling down, he should take a look at the career of a certain #52. His first year as a pro, Green played 22 games with the Caps and 56 with Hershey. Next year, he played the whole season with the big club. His career seems to be turning out OK.
He certainly seemed to be playing better when he was paired with Juice every night. So yes, being a rookie is tough and you might have slumps, but I don’t think BB’s constant rejiggering of the D combos did him any good.
I am okay with this, let him get back up to speed in Hershey. One thing is for sure, you aren’t going to ‘ruin’ Alzner, even if you tried.
Russian Machine Never Breaks
I think this has more to do with the other defensemen on the roster than with Alzner:
Green — is going to play every day
Poti — I’d like to see him get some rest, but realistically he’s going to play just about every day too
Morrissonn — Is playing slightly better of late. He needs to play if he’s going to work his way out of his issues and either raise his trade value or become the valuable contributor he was last year
Kronwall — Needs to play so he can learn the system and so the team can assess him
I bet those four guys don’t miss any of the next 10 games, barring injuries. That leaves Schultz, Jurcina and Erskine to share time on the bench. Is it really good for any of those three guys to go more than a game or two at a time without playing?
Bottom line is Alzner can still go down to Hershey without hitting waivers, and time at Hershey is still valuable for Alzner. Those two facts aren’t true for anyone else on the roster. (Time in the NHL may be more valuable to Alzner, but time in Hershey is valuable to him).
And this last point won’t make me too popular around here: I think Alzner is becoming too emotionally invested in staying in DC. He’s squeezing his stick. I actually think moving between Hershey and DC — and that feeling of having no control over his fate — is good for him. He needs to get to the point of detachment, where he just plays his game regardless of where he is. As Kolzig taught us, passion is only an asset when it’s under control.
by Gould Old Days on Feb 17, 2009 12:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I agree wholeheartedly, with one exception: I think Schultz is a guy who’s always going to play, provided he’s healthy.
…but I agree with Gould about the reasons for Mo playing right now. And frankly, if not for the horrific penalties, I’d be ok with the way Mo is playing. At least he will finish guys into the boards, 5 minutes or not :)
Maybe KK’s play dipped a little b/c he was adjusting to having to rid himself of all those superstitions. (http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/07/alzner-returns-hopes-he-can-stay-for-good/) (clearly I don’t know how to embed a link)
Anyway, I recall when Green kept going up and down, and people thought it would affect his development, but that’s worked out pretty ok.
Funny Alzner story
So I’m sitting in the lobby of the Caps office this morning waiting on my account rep and out walks Karl Alzner carrying all his gear out to his car. When he comes back into the lobby, some guy turns to him and says “My son wants me to get player autographs. Are you a Caps player?” Alzner smiles and says “Not any more. I’m a Hershey Bear now.” The guy, who’s obviously not a fan, shrugs his shoulders and says “I guess that’ll do” and asks for his autograph. When Karl’s done, the guy looks at the autograph asks Alzner how to spell his last name and then says, “Do you know where I can go to get the real players autographs.” Reality bites.
Man, what a dick.
Thankfully the Caps have fans on the other side of the spectrum, like the woman who was rocking an Alzner #47 at the Rags game last week. Sucks that he changed his number, but that 47 definitely displays her faith in him.
Stuttering John
……….would ask celebs on the red carpet “who are you and why are you famous?” Really got under the skin of the self-important. Glad KK (as most hockey players) is humble.
by Pi on Feb 17, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
That guy needs to get punched in the nuts.
by Sombrero Guy on Feb 17, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Never get a German angry, is all I’m going to say.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Feb 17, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
I should add that despite the autograph hound being a jerk, Karl never stopped smiling and was incredibly polite to the guy even though you could tell he was embarrassed by the questions. I honestly felt like going up to the guy and telling him how lucky he was to get his autograph because one day Karl was going to be an all-star, but my better judgement prevailed. I can see now why so many people really like the kid. To quote Grapes, “He’s a good Canadian boy.”
Washington’s a hockey town though right?
Ha, just kidding.
If Karl wasn’t feeling down before, he was after that, but he should take heart. Gabby still seems to want him around. This also lends weight to those that said it was just about getting him playing time and being the one guy that is easy to move up and down.
About Karl Alzner’s demotion earlier in the day, Coach Bruce Boudreau said the rookie could be back soon. “We have eight [defensemen] here and he wasn’t playing tomorrow,” Boudreau said. “He could be back for Friday.”
- From TEB via capsinsider
From Tarik....
*About Karl Alzner’s demotion earlier in the day, Coach Bruce Boudreau said the rookie could be back soon. “We have eight [defensemen] here and he wasn’t playing tomorrow,” Boudreau said. “He could be back for Friday.”
Also, counting this instance, Alzner has been sent down a grand total of three times, and one of those was the All-Star break so he could get a game in while everybody was on break. That’s not exactly a yo-yo.
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
54 | 26 | 17 | 11 | 63 |
|
Washington
|
54 | 28 | 21 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
57 | 26 | 25 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
54 | 24 | 24 | 6 | 54 |
|
Carolina
|
56 | 20 | 25 | 11 | 51 |
(updated 2.12.2012 at 8:46 AM EST)
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