The Snubbing of Mike Green
by Becca H on Dec 31, 2009 11:00 AM EST
89 comments
In the past few days/weeks/months there have been countless diatribes about whether Mike Green should or shouldn’t be on Team Canada this February – and in the coming days/weeks/months, there will no doubt be plenty of others on why he should have or shouldn’t have made the cut.
So apologies for throwing yet another drop into the increasingly overflowing bucket.
Mike Green is, without a doubt, the best offensive defenseman in the game right now. That’s a point that’s rarely debated, even by those who seek to break him down…mostly because the numbers just won’t let them.
The problem is, some people – usually those who don’t actually watch Caps games – equate this with being bad at playing defense. And while Green is prone to the occasional defensive mental lapse (as any young blueliner would be…not to mention a few old ones) they’ve been fewer and farther between seemingly each game. He has really started to find a balance between offensive explosiveness and defensive responsibility.
Green’s had rough nights this season for sure, but even on a bad night he finds a way to rebound; the game-winner against the Hurricanes a few weeks ago stands out in particular, a great comeback after being the cause of at least one goal against. And more often than not he’s putting together quietly effective defensive performances – it’s clear that this is a part of his game he’s worked on, no doubt with an eye partly on making the Olympic squad.
The fact that he’s one of the more consistent Caps’ defensemen this season – on a team hovering around the top 1/3 of the league in goals against average – is hard to ignore. The fact that his +/- is an enviable +15 is also telling, regardless of how suspect the stat may be at times, especially when you consider that 18 of his 38 points this year have come on the power play. He also had, at the time of the selections, a better 5-on-5 GAON/60 than Dan Boyle, Scott Niedermayer and Shea Weber (and both Niedermayer and Boyle have a greater percentage of their points with the extra man). Green’s +/-ON/60 at 5-on-5 is second-best in the NHL, behind only teammate Jeff Schultz.
If those are bad defensive numbers, Bryan McCabe must be crying in his sleep.
But we’re preaching to the choir here. This is a (mostly) pro-Green zone, as one would expect from a group of Caps fans. That we wanted him to join his teammates in Vancouver, if only because he seemed to want it so much, is natural.
More after the jump...
The job that Steve Yzerman and friends had in front of them was not an enviable one. It’s a tough task they were given, with at least 10 worthy candidates in the mix, and a task that was probably made even tougher considering they are the host country and under tremendous pressure to win Gold. And there are some choices with which there can be no issue, for sure. To say that guys like Niedermayer and Chris Pronger, Boyle and Weber are not deserving of a spot is to downplay their accomplishments, abilities and what each of them brings to the table in terms of experience and leadership.
And really, few would suggest that Green could displace at least three of the four (sorry, Dan) regardless of how the numbers shake out this year. Even Brent Seabrook is understandable if chemistry is a goal, as it should be, because his teammate and D partner Duncan Keith was also a shoo-in.
No, the headscratching comes into play when you start debating the value of Green vs. guys like Drew Doughty and Jay Bouwmeester. All three were tossed around as "bubble" picks, and as the picks were revealed, Doughty was somehow in, with Bouwmeester apparently the runner-up.
And Mike Green was left even further out on the fringe than one would have thought.
Somehow the omission of Green from Team Canada would seem less ridiculous if Bouwmeester is the one getting the nod, with Green coming in just behind him and the youngster – as he should – cooling his heels in third. Bouwmeester’s a fine defenseman and one with plenty of international experience, including the Olympics. The argument could be made for either him or Green, depending on what the team was looking for.
But Doughty getting picked over either one is simply puzzling. He’s full of potential and a very good defenseman in his own right – he’s also all of 20 years old, with all the potential mistakes of youth and less of the offensive upside to balance it out. His international experience is limited; his professional experience extremely so. Is he a better defensive defenseman than Green? Possibly. Is he a better defenseman period?
Team Canada says yes...I think a lot of people would disagree.
At the end of the day, we as Caps fans know that this snub will likely work to our advantage. Of all the potential Olympians, Green was probably the one with whom the most concerns lay about fitness and readiness for the playoffs. Getting denied – again – from a spot that should have been his will probably only fuel his determination to prove himself on a bigger stage. The first priority for Caps fans has to be the quest for the Cup, and we’ve got one of our best players fully on board for that quest now.
And yet, we know how much he wanted this. We wanted it for him, and it’s hard not to think how much better Team Canada would be with him on it. There are few players who skate like that, who shoot like that, who bring that much speed and skill from the blueline like that – and Team Canada is a poorer team without him because of it.
As someone who only considered rooting for them at all because of #52’s possible inclusion, all I can say…is good.
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At $4.1M per year...
…I don’t think Bryan McCabe is crying himself to sleep. He hires someone to cry for him.
In fact, the only time he cries is when he is on the ice against Brooks Laich.
Let's go Caps!
Good point…maybe it’s the folks in the Panthers front office that are crying themselves to sleep, then, eh?
They think about it… then they think they could be the Rangers front office and their signing of Wade Redden….
Let's go Caps!
Doughty looks like the real deal, but that also smells of serious preferential treatment, given all of the factors in play.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 31, 2009 11:16 AM EST reply actions
In that same vein, does Bogosian crack USA?
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 31, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
I love Bogo. He’d be on my Team USA.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I can’t remember, was he even invited to camp?
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 31, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I’d definitely agree that Doughty is the real deal – I hope that comes across, I think he’s an excellent young talent and will be one of the better D in the league for a long time. Just not sure he was the best choice here (although I should really be targeting Boyle, since it was probably between him and Green).
I’d have targeted Boyle. Doughty’s 5v5 GAON/60 is better than those guys (hell, it’s better than all of the Canadian D save Seabrook I think), and his international experience is a little more than Green’s.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 31, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
*Seabrook and Pronger.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 31, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
The Canadians will regret the day they left Sarge off the team!
Fun fact: A popular opinion can still be stupid.
by RedBirdie on Dec 31, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Sticking needles into his Applebaum voodoo doll?
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 31, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
That’s not the criteria for making the team, it’s a measure by which Green is better defensively than some of the guys who did (applicable if the reason he was left off the team was that they wanted better defensive players).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I definitely don’t have a problem with Doughty making the team as the 7th Dman. With the experience in that roster I don’t think his lack of international experience is a big deal. He’s a stud and it’s good for Canada to get him a taste of the Olympics now since he’ll be anchoring their D for international tournaments for years to come.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 31, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
One reason that Doughty may have gotten the nod is that there are so many games crammed into so little time during the Olympics, so having one guy who can recover quickly would be an asset.
Ah to be 20 again…
Let's go Caps!
I can’t imagine that had anything to do with it. Green is still young enough to recover like that, and they took plenty of old balls that you don’t expect are going to get benched to rest their legs.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 31, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
In retrospect, I don’t Green had much of a chance from the beginning. Take a look at the makeup of Canada’s defensive corp. Everyone, excluding Pronger, comes from the West and Pronger has played basically his entire career in the West. And what’s the makeup of the selection committee? You guessed it. Western Conference guys. Very simply, they know who they like and it’s what they see most of the time in league play. Couple that with the preconceived notions about Mike’s defensive play and I bet there are two or three guys ahead of him who didn’t get picked. I thought Babcock’s comment about why they picked Doughty was most telling. “He’s got a big offensive upside without a lot of risk”. Think he might have been talking about Green?
I continue to maintain that Boyle is the most replaceable-with-Green guy on the roster.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
In other words, maybe the tin-foil hat theory isn’t so tin-foil? I think there’s something to that, although you can’t give it 100% weight. No matter how good Green may have played when the scouts were watching (if I remember correctly, most nights were good, but there was a clunker in there somewhere), if they’re predisposed to think he’s weak defensively, that’s what they’re going to see. He’d have to have a perfect night, every night, to make the team.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
I don’t think we can underestimate the enourmous pressure the selection committee is up in Canada. Anything less than a gold medal will be considered a failure. That’s why I think they went the safe route here with guys they’ve seen on a regular basis. That said, if Team Canada goes through a goal drought like they did in ‘06 and they left the highest scoring defenseman in the NHL sitting in Washington, there’s going to be a lot of finger pointing at Yzerman.
Hey, that result suits us, right? Canada loses (good). Canada’s brain trust looks like idiots (better). Green is rested and burning for the playoffs (best). Win all around. Well, except for Green, but he’ll feel a lot better when he gets to hoist the Cup.
I’m doubting a major goal drought, though.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
He had a terrible game against TOR which was in front of scouts. He also had bad games against OTT and MON, but I don’t remember if scouts were there. Even if scouts weren’t there the whole nation of Canada saw it live.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 31, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
That comment may have referred to Green, but I don’t think there is a west-coast bias going on. This isn’t ESPN, it’s Hockey Canada. They’ve seen plenty of Mike Green and the other candidates from the east. They scouted the hell out of this team since last season.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 31, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
If I overhear one more person at the Verizon Center say, “Yeah, Green scores a lot of goals, but he sucks at defense” I think I’m going to go ballistic.
Granted, I’m hearing it much less this year than last, most likely due to the fact that many new(er) Caps fans are becoming more mature and knowledgeable about the sport, thus becoming able to form their own opinions by actually watching players play the game and not just regurgitating facts they hear elsewhere in order to sound they know what they’re talking about.
The fact is, Cananda is a nation that could probably field 2 Olympic hockey teams that could each compete for a medal, and so there is always going to be a more than a few very deserving players that don’t make the cut. Having said that however, I really can’t believe that Green was ever a guy on the “bubble”…it should have been no contest that he would make this team. Maybe that’s just the Caps fan in me talking, maybe not. I truly believe his playoff performance killed his chances this year, and that is a shame, because when Greenie is 100% there is no argument that his production on ice is second to none.
Silver lining from my perspective? As a Caps fan and Team USA fan, I won’t have to worry about rooting against Green in the Olympics, and hopefully this will allow him to be more well-rested come April.
Of course, if even one of the guys already named can’t go, I can only assume Green’s name is probably next on the list of alternates.
"I am ready for his provocations"
by PaintDrinkingPete on Dec 31, 2009 11:22 AM EST reply actions
Next? Doubtful, unless Boyle goes down. JBo probably replaces anyone not named Boyle, and maybe even Boyle.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 31, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
At the end of the day, we as Caps fans know that this snub will likely work to our advantage.
Well, I certainly hope you’re right on this point, Becca. One hopes that this doesn’t become one of those festering sores that never heals. One of those chip-on-your-shoulder deals that rankles forever. CapsNation needs, desperately needs, Greenie to be at 110% come spring. Mentally and physically. We need you, Mikey. Shrug it off.
I’m gonna look on the bright side and think that this is a big bonus for Caps fans. A little extra rest, a little less risk of injury, and a huge dollop of motivation can only help Green this year.
That said, he certainly got screwed. I’m not the biggest Green fan, but when he’s on a roll he is simply awesome to watch. I can’t imagine why Canada ddn’t take him simply for the PP. Make him the 6th D and play him on the point fo every PP and you get the best of both worlds, right?
A danger to myself and others on the ice
Becca, I only found out there was a jump and more after by accident. You may want to add a “more after the jump” in there.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 31, 2009 11:46 AM EST reply actions
And while Green is prone to the occasional defensive mental lapse … they’ve been fewer and farther between seemingly each game.
I’ve actually thought that Green’s mental lapses have been more frequent and worse this year than last. He’s definitely being asked to do more — to play harder minutes against tougher competition — and I think it shows. And I think right now it’s too much (and would be too much for almost anyone). The problem is, who else on this team do you trust against the league elite?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 31, 2009 11:50 AM EST reply actions
I concur. I also think that while Green is pretty good at keeping the puck out of the net, he doesn’t always make it look easy. He’s not a guy who’s going to take the body and part of his skill is being able to catch/tie up a guy after he’s been beaten a little. Guys often get shots away but Green’s tied them up enough to make it less of a quality chance. Pretty effective but not necessarily pretty. And if you’re only watching him every few games, it’s going to look even worse. Still think he should make the team over Boyle.
You’re right that it’s worse this year than last year. But I also think Becca is correct in that it was much worse early in the year than it’s been since Thanksgiving. I also think you’re right about the ice time and the qualcomp, but it’s not like we lost a guy from last year that was facing the elite competition. So does this just mean Green is taking Poti’s former-defensive assignments? Green really needs to have his TOI down to 24-25 minutes, not up around 27. In order for that to happen the rest of the D are going to have to be better, especially Alzner. It seems like the games that Green gets the fewest minutes are the ones that Alzner gets the most minutes.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 31, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Alzner’s TOI might not be mainly due to his play, but may instead be due to game situations. Alzner sees much more ice time these days when the Caps are ahead than when they’re behind.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 31, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
That doesn’t make a ton of sense to me because I don’t think the rest of the D are any more likely to effect a comeback, other than the obvious exception.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 31, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
I’m with you. Not a policy I’m a fan of. But he’s a “rookie” so he needs to be “protected.”
I seem to recall him doing pretty well in a game where ShaMo left early with an injury, Green was knocked out, and Erskine got a misconduct leaving the team with just 3 D. I think the boy can be trusted…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 31, 2009 9:05 PM EST up reply actions
We throw rookie goalies up against the Devils, why not throw rookie D out there too?
They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
A lot of Caps fans are saying “I’m glad he didn’t make the team, that way he’ll rest up and play better for us,” but as much as I love the Caps, I want all our players to make their respective Olympic teams. We all know how much it matters to them. And as Behind the Net found, for as much data as we have, it seems sending your players to the Olympics doesn’t make the team worse.
"My face is my mask."
I think more people are saying "I’m glad he didn’t make the team, that way he’ll be motivated to play better for us" than what you said.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 31, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Really? I think I only heard that coming into last night’s game, where fans thought he’d play harder vs. Boyle. Before that, all I recall ever hearing is what I talked about in my last comment.
"My face is my mask."
by jakeshapiro on Dec 31, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve said both all along.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 31, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
He’ll be motivated and rested so that should be good. As long as he doesn’t spend the Olympics comforting himself with Haagen Dazs and chocolates.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 31, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
Pulling some quotes from TSN commentors...
There are some upset Canadians over at TSN’s website and some not so much. I was curious what they all thought.
I’ve read Bouwmeester/Green for Doughty/Seabrook. Green for Niedermeyer (because he’s old). Green for Pronger. Green for Niedermeyer/Boyle. Green/Phaneuf for Pronger. Some people just said, “Mike Green should be on there.” There was this one, too: “Pronger and Doughty were a mistake, Green and Bouwmeester will relish this fact when they blow it on the big stage…AGAIN! WHAT A JOKE!!!” Others elaborated a little:
“…can’t believe that Green didn’t make it. Power play did not click in last olympics and he is an offensive threat”
“Green is a PP machine – enough said.”
“I really can’t see how you can leave a game breaker like Mike Green off this roster!! He is leading defenseman in points for a second straight season, only Canadian Norris nominee last year. He’s tied for 5th in the NHL, 2nd for defenseman in plus/minus this year, how much of a defensive liability is he now?? He is a younger and better Dan Boyle and deserves a spot on that team.”
The problem is, some people – usually those who don’t actually watch Caps games – equate this with being bad at playing defense.
Guess these people aren’t Caps fans…
“…and Mike Green isn’t that big of a surprise. He is great offensively but would easily be the worst defensive defenseman if he had made the team.”
“5 of the D selected are in the top 10 for points for D-Men and a big complaint out there is that although Green can light up the score board he is a defensive liability.”
“While he’s incredible offensively, he’s a huge liability in his own end.”
“mike green could have been picked for sure, but boyle plays a same role and he has more experience playing for his country, plus green played awful in the playoffs last year…”
I’m not sure it’s wrong to say that if Green replaced Boyle, he’d be the worst defensive defenseman on the team. That’s not exactly an insult.
And while he wasn’t awful in the playoffs last year, he certainly wasn’t himself (for many reasons we’ve discussed at length)…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 31, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. Green would be the worst defensive defenseman, but that doesn’t mean he’s bad defensively.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 31, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Agree here.
Stevie Y’s operating theory seemed to be that the team has enough goal scoring and playmaking, and only needed defensive prowess from the blueline. Ergo, no need for Mike Green, there being better defensive defensemen out there.
So far, no quibbles from me. If that’s your operating theory, then they made the right personnel decisions to implement the theory.
I think the theory is wrongheaded and nonsensical, of course. The brain trust has (yet again) focused on theoretical concepts that sound good (character, hard-nosed defense, defensive defensemen), versus the actual, practical ways that you win hockey games (putting the puck in their net more than they put it in yours).
You always need more scoring. Always. It’s the hardest thing to do in hockey, and the highest value act on the ice.
Canada will regret not having Mike Green. Just as they regretted having a bunch of pluggers, a bunch of bruisers, and a bunch of skill guys in the past.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
to be fair – the 7 defencemen they did take are fairly competent at scoring themselves (i believe a commenter in Mirtle’s thread said something like the 2, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10 ranked D in scoring? I may be mistaken), so it is perhaps not as big of a drop off.
Kind of like being the ugliest Victorias Secret model.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Dec 31, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
FTW (though it would have been a comment-shutting-down win with a visual).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I had a hard time picking an ugly one.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Dec 31, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not sure it’s wrong to say that if Green replaced Boyle, he’d be the worst defensive defenseman on the team.
Agreed. Someone has to be “the worst.” And the point of this post and other similarly spirited defenses of 52 is not “he’s a great defensive defenseman” or “he’s a better defensive defenseman than X, Y or Z,” but rather “the conventional wisdom that he’s a defensive liability and/or that he plays no defense is just flat-out wrong.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Someone that fat, they just naturally get in the way of some pucks. So he’s got that going for him.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
I just don’t think the PP this year for Canada will be all that bad – Team Canada’s selections looked like they were going the safe route, and with PP units of Crosby/Nash/Iginla-or-Bergeron or the Sharks line, and all Top 4 TC blueliners ready to bomb away, I can’t see how it’ll be much of a goal drought, especially since you know the Sharks guys have tons of chemistry and won’t need to adjust for it, so there’s always that fall-back plan.
That said, TSN comments are on a CI’ed level at times.
Skil <> PP Success
We’ve seen lots of very skilled units struggle on the PP. The Caps have certainly had their woes, SJS is only 10, CHI is only 12th, PIT is worst in the league. I’d love it if they PP breaks down despite all that talent, but I’m not counting on it.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 31, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
As someone who only considered rooting for them at all because of #52’s possible inclusion, all I can say…is good.
that pretty much sums it up for me… i would have at least wanted them to medal if green had made it, for his sake. now, not so much.
"No Brooks Laich, no win. Know Brooks Laich, know win."
Sometimes in sports, you build a roster with an opponent in mind. It happens in baseball, where the Yankees and Red Sox seem to make moves with an eye toward how the move will play out in a Yanks-Sox series of games. It happens perhaps more in football, where teams build rosters with games against divisional rivals in mind (this was big for a while in the NFC East, where in the late 80’s and early 90’s the teams were largely mirror images of one another).
Green not being selected for the Canadian might have been, for all I know, with the Russians in mind — two guys who have played with him and who have elite offensive skills, and another who plays against him a lot and has such as elite a set of skills. Did Green suffer from the possibility of playing against Ovechkin, Semin, and Kovalchuk — players who could (and certainly would in that setting) exploit whatever weaknesses he had on the defensive/puckhandling side of the ledger? I don’t think that can be discounted.
If you've read this far...seek help.
This is a good point, but I can’t help but notice that there’s another side to that coin.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 31, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
First off, great article Becca…loved the read.
But I disagree a bit with the incredulousness at Doughty being a pick.
He was, from most media reports here in the Great White North, the most scouted player on the roster. He just kept playing well and not making it easy.
Kypreos said, and I agree with this too, “if Doughty played in the Eastern Time Zone, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation”. Just from seeing him play the Canucks and the highlight shows, he sure doesn’t play like a young guy!
I am thinking the reasoning was that Green’s “occasional” defensive lapse would be too costly when it happened in a knock out tourney.
We know he could go 3/3/+2…and then -2 or 3. That bad luck game could be the one against the Russians or Swedes or Americans that prevents this team from making the Gold Medal game.
This… Kings 40 9 17 26 +6 26 PIM with a 13.2 shooting percentage is not as good as this
Caps 39 9 29 38 +14 28 PIM with 8.3 shooting percentage, but its close.
I know what you mean though…Green getting snubbed is a good thing for the Caps for having their star D’man fresh for the 2nd half. But lets not forget that there are 6 weeks or so to go, plenty of chances for someone to get injured, with Green and J-Bo the go to guys if that happens.
Peace
The earliest use of the word with the spelling we recognize today is found in "L'Acadie: or Seven Years' Exploration in British America" by James Edward Alexander, published in 1849:
We also met a lusty fellow in a forest road with a keg of whisky slung round him who called to us 'Come boys and have some grog, I'm what you call a canuck"
by vancitydan on Dec 31, 2009 2:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Well put, as always (although you almost lost me when you said you agreed with Kypreos :P).
I do have to say I’ve been impressed w/ Doughty in the small number of games I’ve seen, and he was effective shutting down Ovechkin his first time facing #8, so I guess that’s something to commend him for the team. And I’m sure you guys see more than enough of him for your liking ;) you probably have a better read on him than I do.
I guess my question with Doughty is why they would throw someone that young and inexperienced into that level of competition, with that much pressure on him. And if you consider the fact that as a 7th defenseman he’s probably not going to see a ton of ice time, it seems like you could easily replace his abilities with someone like Green who would combine pretty decent defense with a much better offensive upside.
Really it’s Boyle who probably took Green’s spot for whatever reason, not Doughty. What I was going for here is just to point out the simple fact that Mike Green is a much better player in his own end than people realize.
But yes, I’m hopeful this gives us a fresher (and more determined) star defenseman for the playoffs – he really wants to be there so if someone were to become injured and he got the call, I’d be happy for him. Hard not to be a little glad as a Caps fan, though :)
Nothing wrong with being loquacious…some even find it sexy! You go with that big…vocabulary girl!
From hearing Stevie Y’ answer the questions, they were just continually impressed with Doughty’s game, every time he played. That he just kept playing well, and giving them no reasons to not pick him, and many reasons TO pick him. He is a good player, of that there is no doubt.
I’ll leave it to the experts. I am pretty happy with the team…I hope we get a repeat of the 2002 Final…playing the USA…though not sure of the pools and seedings.
You are right about Boyle being the “offensive” defenseman that got picked over Green.
Boyle is pretty good too!
The earliest use of the word with the spelling we recognize today is found in "L'Acadie: or Seven Years' Exploration in British America" by James Edward Alexander, published in 1849:
We also met a lusty fellow in a forest road with a keg of whisky slung round him who called to us 'Come boys and have some grog, I'm what you call a canuck"
I really have no complaints on their D-men picks. If they had picked Regher like some were talking they might then I’d have issues. To me they did what they felt worked best for their team. Doughty deserved to make the team. He plays much older than he is and he can be placed on pretty much any situation. Keith/Seabrook think wasn’t on my radar but it makes sense. The only major issue I had was the selection of Staal. Brad Richards and Martin St. Louis have got to be seething right now.
A man gotta have a code
St Louis has no reason to make it if B Richards doesn’t in my book (having said that, pretty sure St Louis can play wing better than B Richards can). When it comes down to it though, Staal/B Richards/St Louis as a selection really doesn’t make or break Team Canada IMO. But I agree with your point.
I agree that it doesn’t make or break the team, but the way Staal has been playing doesn’t justify his inclusion. I was on record as saying Brad Richards should have been on the team weeks ago. However, they do have a bunch of centers, so if the claim is they needed a center who could play wing or a pure winger then certainly Marty should have gotten major consideration and should be in before Staal.
A man gotta have a code
Btw, is “The Snubbing of Mike Green” anything like “The Jilting of Granny Weatherall”?
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Enh. The only silver lining for me is that now I can root against Canada with a clear conscience.
Becca pretty much sums it up. He deserves to be there and I feel bad for Green as a Caps fan. Hopefully he doesn’t let it rankle forever and just uses it as a reason to step up his game for the run to the Cup in the spring. I’m not exactly impressed with his start to that, but hopefully this team can get their shit together and turn it around.
Unleash the Alex!
I’m in agreement with you here, Becca. While there are things Green does that are certainly not conducive to being known as a steady hand, I have a hard time believing Team Canada is better off without him. There are games where he seems to be the only player who can move the puck through the neutral zone, and his presence on the PP is invaluable. When it comes down to it, he has his problems, but there is no one in the word who can do what Mike Green does.
There is a small part of me that can’t help but wonder if his absence isn’t a concession to Russia’s firepower.
Oh well. Their loss. :)
I think he should apply for US Citizenship – he’d make the US Squad all day every day – he should be on the Team Canada squad but it won’t matter:
Gold: Russia
Silver: Slovokia
Bronze: Sweden….
by markbona-capsfan99 on Jan 2, 2010 4:22 PM EST reply actions
Except that Team Russia is in a slump right now. Team USA would probably beat them today.
Rocking the Red since 1975
What are you basing this on? Team Russia (and every other Olympic team for that matter) hasn’t played since the World Championships, and they sure weren’t slumping then.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Jan 3, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Just that the Caps have played badly lately and Team Russia has lots of Caps (and former Caps) on their roster . And they’re slumping.
Yes, I know that in reality, Team Russia won the last 2 World Championships in hockey, including 2008 when they had lots of Caps and 2009 when they did not.
But luckily, Team Russia not playing the Olympics today. They’re playing in late February. The Caps will right the ship by then and our Russian boys will break out of their slump by that point and probably sooner. (And I do think, realistically, the Russians will probably do better in the Olympics for hockey than the USA.)
I guess that was a sarcasm fail.
Rocking the Red since 1975
Beating a dead horse
I know this has been discussed to death. But I was over on TSN looking at their NHL Player Rankings with their ratings (as of last week). Look at the list below and tell me what 19 of the 20 names have in common (and the first two guesses don’t count)!
1. Alexander Ovechkin Washington 106.04
2. Ryan Miller Buffalo 96.03
3. Marian Gaborik N.Y. Rangers 94.59
4. Mike Green Washington 93.89
5. Zach Parise New Jersey 93.60
6. Ilya Bryzgalov Phoenix 92.40
7. Sidney Crosby Pittsburgh 92.39
8. Evgeni Malkin Pittsburgh 90.45
9. Ilya Kovalchuk Atlanta 89.95
10. Patrick Marleau San Jose 89.70
11. Joe Thornton San Jose 89.02
12. Dany Heatley San Jose 88.36
13. Nicklas Backstrom Washington 87.68
14. Duncan Keith Chicago 87.60
15. Henrik Sedin Vancouver 87.56
16. Alexander Semin Washington 87.50
17. Miikka Kiprusoff Calgary 87.30
18. Patrick Kane Chicago 87.20
19. Evgeni Nabokov San Jose 86.83
20. Martin Brodeur New Jersey 85.35
That’s right… every player on the list, save one, are going to be playing in the Olympics next month.
According to blog of Scott Cullen, the guy behind these stats , “The individual player ratings are generated using a weighted formula that includes the following statistics:”
Goals per game, Assists per game, Plus-Minus, Power Play Goals, Shorthanded Goals, Game Winning Goals, Shots on Goal, Blocked Shots, Hits, Giveaways, Takeaways and Faceoffs.
Seems to me that takes into account all of the factors that we reported to have been looked at in the decision. I realize one statistic does not say it all, but it’s interesting that the only other Canadian D is Duncan Keith at #14. I believe these stats are for the entire season as well.
BTW – As a first time poster, thought I’d say I’ve been a Caps fan for over 25 years and a hockey fan for almost all of my life. My dad starting taking me to weekly games when I was 7… the Broome Dusters (that sure dates me). I’ve been a lurker for a while and am so impressed with the level of analysis and discussion here.
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
82 | 54 | 15 | 13 | 121 |
|
Atlanta
|
82 | 35 | 34 | 13 | 83 |
|
Carolina
|
82 | 35 | 37 | 10 | 80 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
82 | 34 | 36 | 12 | 80 |
|
Florida
|
82 | 32 | 37 | 13 | 77 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
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