Testing the Western Trade Waters
by David Getz on Dec 29, 2009 2:30 PM EST
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PrintThe 2009-10 Washington Capitals are a very, very good hockey team by just about any metric. That said, it'd be silly to assume they couldn't be even better, and given the salary cap space that opened up with Michael Nylander's loan to Grand Rapids under way and one trade already in the books, the fact that the NHL's holiday season roster freeze ended yesterday, and that it's never too early to start planning (or more realistically, given how much impact our musings are likely to have on the team's personnel moves, hoping), it makes sense to start thinking about who's available and how they might help the Caps this season. Luckily, Spector has provided a nifty guide to which Western Conference players might be available for acquisition, thereby providing us with inspiration.
Who might be available, and whether they're a good fit for the Caps, after the jump
Why we like him: Koivu is an almost prototypical third line center for the style the Capitals play. He's defensively responsible, wins faceoffs, kills penalties, and can chip in on offense. He has noted leadership ability and 48 playoff points in 54 career playoff games. Plus, you could do a lot worse if you needed someone to fill in on the second line in a pinch.
Why we don't: The Caps are aren't all that big down the middle, and Koivu doesn't add much size. Though still productive, Koivu's production has fallen over the last few years and, given his age, you have to wonder how much he'll have left in the tank in May...and hopefully, June, especially given that his games player have from 81 to 77 to 65 over the last three years.
Why we like him: Being able to play to stop NHL forwards on a consistent basis is a vastly underrated skill, and one the Capitals could stand to upgrade, and Sarich would provide that. He also brings an element of physicality to the blue line and moves the puck out of the zone fairly well.
Why we don't: $3.6 million is not an insignificant cap hit, especially when you consider Sarich's contract runs through the 2011-12 season. The 2009-10 Capitals already have more defensemen than they know what to do with, and John Carlson should be in the NHL for good before too long.
Why we like him: The same reason we like Sarich - solid NHL caliber defensemen aren't all that easy to come by, but you need them if you're going to win.
Why we don't: Sopel doesn't offer much, if any, upgrade over Shaone Morrisonn, who makes less money. The fact that Sopel's due another $2,333,333 next year doesn't help, given that Mike Green, Karl Alzner, Tom Poti, and Jeff Schultz should be back.
Why we like him: In the post lockout NHL there's arguably no skill more important that skating for defensemen, and Liles excels in that area. He also moves the puck well out of his own end well, something that's important in the Capitals' current system. His decidedly non-physical brand of hockey will keeping smoking rates in the D.C. area low, making it more likely D.C. will retain it's "healthiest city in the county" distinction.
Why we don't: He's essentially a rich man's Brian Pothier, and doesn't bring the current blueline a huge upgrade in any one area. The contract is too much, both in terms of dollars and years, for the Capitals to take on right now.
Why we like him: He's a Cap.
Why we don't: Give it a week, we'll find something to nitpick.
Why we like him: Ott's the complete package in terms of what the Capitals need in their forward ranks right now. He's physical. He fights. He can play all three forward positions. He can chip in on offense. He wins faceoffs. To top it all off, his contract hit is low and he's a free agent after this season.
Why we don't: He's crazy. That physicality can come with a price, and it's possible Ott winds up hurting his team with a bad penalty, or even a suspension. Ott also only has five points in 34 NHL playoff games.
Why we like him: Williams provides a lot of offense (.65 points per game since 2006) for his cap hit ($1.5 million), and he's done it while playing for four different teams, suggesting he has the ability to find chemistry and produce with just about anyone.
Why we don't: He's not a clear upgrade of guys like Brooks Laich, Tomas Fleischmann, and Eric Fehr. It's not that Williams would be a bad pickup for the Caps, it's just that they have more pressing needs. Plus, he's injury prone.
Why we like him: Cogliano's a talented offensive player who can line up at wing or center. His most impressive attribute is his speed (he won Fastest Skater at last year's all-star game), a skill that has helped him to a 13:1 penalties drawn/taken ratio and means he should fit in well with the high-tempo Caps.
Why we don't: The Oilers aren't stupid. Even if they feel the need to shake up their team by moving Cogliano, he's going to come at a pretty high price.
Why we like him: Frolov has a ton of offensive talent, and his addition would only make the Capitals even scarier to play against - a team featuring Ovechkin, Frolov, Alexander Semin, and Nicklas Backstrom is one that will inevitably have two elite scoring lines.
Why we don't: He's a poor man's Alexander Semin, and the inevitable deluge of discussion would likely crash the Capitals' blogosphere. The Capitals should be looking at their depth forwards and defense unless they can make a huge splash - and as good as Frolov is, he's not that splash.
Why we like him: He's a solid defenseman who minimizes mistakes, doesn't take too many penalties, skates well, and gets the puck out of his own end to his forward efficiently. Given that the Capitals probably only need a temporary upgrade at the back end, his expiring contract is a plus.
Why we don't: Johnsson's production hasn't matched his offensive skill set since the lockout, although some of that has to do with the fact he's been in Minnesota for all but one of the post-lockout years. The $4.85 million cap hit is high, even if it does come off the books this season.
Why we like him: He's young, he's good, he's cheap, and he plays a position the Capitals need an upgrade.
Why we don't: We'll let you know when we think of it.
Why we like him: The combination of age and natural talent Mueller posses is something you don't get too many shots at as an NHL general manager, and a player with Mueller's combination of size and skill would be a good fit for the Capitals, who have a number of smaller, skill players and bigger, depth players, but who lack a physical force who can play in the top two lines other than Alex Ovechkin.
Why we don't: The talent's there, and Mueller could be a good fit for the Capitals given the team's style of play, but his production has fallen way off this year. The Capitals are trying to win a Stanley Cup, and Stanley Cup contenders don't pick up reclamation projects late in the season.
Why we like him: He's already capable of playing defense at the NHL level, he has a very low cap hit this season and next, and he's cost controlled for several seasons after that.
Why we don't: If the Sharks are going to deal away a 21-year-old defenseman, they're going to want someone who can help them at the NHL level, and the Capitals giving up an NHL caliber player to acquire another young defenseman just doesn't make sense.
Why we like him: The Capitals offense is already scary good, and adding more depth to it would only make it better. There are potential leadership benefits too: don't forget Kariya's captained a team that went to the Stanley Cup Finals.
Why we don't: The Caps have more pressing needs, and at $6 million, acquiring Kariya would mean they probably wouldn't be able to address them. Also, his SBN headshot scares me.
Why we like him: There's the grizzled vet angle, but beyond that, not a ton. In terms of on-ice contributions, he'd probably be a good guy to step in and take over when Washington's powerplay turned ineffective due to overpassing, but beyond that it's hard to see him being an ideal fit for this team.
Why we don't: If the Capitals add another defenseman, it needs to be someone who's a clear upgrade on the blue line. Schneider doesn't fit that profile at this point in his career.
Of these players - or any others who might be available - who should the Capitals be looking at? And, just as importantly, what should they be willing to give up to get the right piece?
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Schneider’s on waivers right now if anybody wants him. No? Okay, good.
DMG, is there a reason why you suspect the Sharks would be looking to move Demers? I’ve watched him in a few games this year because he’s on my fantasy team, and he would be a great #2 offensive D-man.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
The list isn’t DMG’s (just the analysis), it’s spector’s.
As for my take, give me Hamhuis please. Too bad the Preds probably won’t be sellers. Also would love Koivu, size notwithstanding. A third line of Laich – Koivu – Fehr could do some damage in the playoffs I think.
I believe you, F&B, and I are all pro-Hammy.
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I’m all for Hamuis as well. I’d take Frolov in a heartbeat too.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Didn’t Fro used to be considered a strong two-way player? Seems like something’s off this season, although maybe I just had the wrong impression. Wouldn’t mind him if the price were right, but the Kings probably can’t afford to sell off a piece like that without getting almost equal strength in return.
Right with you
Demers ain’t going anywhere, and on that list I’d want Koivu and Hamhuis. Love me some Hamhuis.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
The list of players is Spector’s, not D’s – D just used ’em as a launching point.
And I was surprised Demers was on there too.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Agreed. But with 15 guys on the list and D’s awesome “why we want/don’t want” ‘em, it helps us focus in on the kinds of guys (if not the specific ones) we’d want.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
As for “kinds of guys we’d want” I am in complete agreement with DMG: depth forwards and impact defenders (“impact” is my addition, but I think that’s what he meant).
Chimera is a decent start on the depth forwards. We’ll see how Gordon does as 4C; also how Bubbles does as 3C. If they’re not cutting it, that would be a place to look for an upgrade as well.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
You had something long and fantastic written about Jason Chimera before yesterday, didn’t you? :)
I highly doubt the Sharks are interested in moving Demers. But if they were, I’d happily exploit the stupid in this case. He was GOOD last night in the Sharks / Yotes game.
Of this list, the only one I can think of that would be a serious and affordable upgrade in an area we need is Hamhuis, and I doubt the Preds release him so easily. What would they want in return?
Unleash the Alex!
The obvious area the Caps need to address is their D-corps. IMO, they have three legit Top 4 defenders (Green, Alzner and Schultz). Poti plays Top 4 minutes, but at this point in his career he is not quite that good. Erskine, Pothier, ShaMo and Sloane are all bottom-pairing guys.
As for affordability, the Caps have (presumably) the cash to afford just about anybody. They also have the cap room to take on anyone on that list.
Specific to Hamhuis, on whom I am in agreement with you that he provides the largest upgrade, it will take a lot to get him. Nashville needs offense, and they need it cheap. You can’t swap cash under the CBA, more’s the pity, or this deal would be easier to get done. I keep coming back to Flash, in the absence of another viable alternative. It might take Flash plus a promising AHL player.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Flash for Hamhuis isn’t a great swap right now if he keeps up his scoring rate. Fehr for Hamhuis, though, might work even if the Caps have to add a bit.
It’s just a question of convincing Poile that it’ll help his team. They might have trouble filling in that hole on D this season.
Part of my unstated assumptions is that Flash won’t keep up his scoring rate. I tend to like Fehr more than Flash, but Flash has grown on me this year.
It’s not going to be easy to pry Hamhuis away; it’ll take a real player to get the Preds to part with him, I have to imagine.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Sure, they can take anyone on that they want to on that list, but that doesn’t make it a smart pickup. By “affordable” I mean less “what can we afford” and more “which ones are actually a smart use of our cap space”. Sorry, I should have clarified.
Also, believe me, I know what our obvious needs are. Everyone who follows the Caps and reads the blogs knows that. I can read too, you know, and I can watch hockey.
Unleash the Alex!
Wasn’t trying to be bitchy with you, just thinking out loud.
Sorry if it came off wrong.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
I admit I was wondering why you were talking to me like I’d never watched Caps hockey in my life. If that was just thinking aloud, no worries. :)
I do like the idea of McPhee starting now and leaving room to assess needs before the deadline; that speaks of a carefully designed and thought-out plan and says that he’s not just blindly spending money, which is important too. Being GM of a team with Cup aspirations and plenty of cap space, it’d be easy for him to get taken for a ride by some GM looking to dump salary. The team is in a position to take a measured and planned approach and is doing so; spending money just to spend money isn’t helpful either.
Unleash the Alex!
Nice summary and analysis.
I’d be real pleased to add Hamhuis. He’s probably the guy that adds brings the biggest upgrade on the blueline. Given that Nashville needs (cheap) offensive pop to stay in the playoff mix, I’d say the discussion starts with scoring forwards we’d be willing to part with. I doubt Nashville does the deal for minor leaguers, but if they’d go for a Matt Perreault and a Bourque and a Giroux, that would be fantastic. Pipe dream, of course.
Realistically…I think it would take a Flash or a Fehr to get this done. I’d give up Flash to get Hamhuis in the house. But not Fehr, I don’t think.
Would also take Kim Johnsson, but for less than Hamhuis.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
ummmmm…. why would we give up Flash or Fehr who are both RFA’s next year for Hamhuis who is a UFA next year. Hamhuis isn’t Pronger or Neidimeyer and therefore wouldn’t take an expentially amount in order to recieve such a player, also he most likely isn’t resigning with nashville. Therefore if a trade that can improve your team this year, in order to make the playoffs, comes along for Hamhuis i think you take it.
Well, there’s a chance we can’t keep both Flash and Fehr next season anyways, at least not if they both have good years.
Not to mention Hamhuis is the type of guy we could probably afford to keep in the offseason, especially if we can shuffle around a bit more salary (Poti perhaps). If you can get him now you get that much more time to negotiate, not to mention addressing an area of need for the playoffs (presumably).
Fehr for Hamhuis (in NHL terms) probably does a lot of good for the Caps this year, and at this point might be something they can handle long term as well. Tough to say of course, who knows what GMGM or Poile really are looking for.
Even though both are arb eligible, Fehr’s case is likely weaker than Flash’s based on injuries alone; it wouldn’t surprise me to see them take up ShaMo’s money (combined) next year.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think i want to trade fehr considering i think he is final turning into the player who was drafted after parise and before getzlaf.
Aso how much do you think Fehr and Flash will cost to resign.
I was thinking Fehr will cost around 1-1.25 and Flash double that.
I can see those numbers for those guys, if not a bit more.
I don’t like losing either of them if they’re becoming everything we want them to, but at the same time if trading them means bringing in someone of the caliber of Hamhuis (especially if you can subsequently work out an extension at some point) then it’s worth it, probably.
if we knew going into the trade that he was willing to sign around a Poti type of contract then i would be all for trading Fehr for him.
It’s a good question about how much he actually will make. He doesn’t have Poti’s offense so he might even be cheaper with that (obviously the cap is higher now but still).
I doubt you get an extension handed to you on a platter at the time of trade, so there’d be risk involved. I think it’d be worth it though. Even if you don’t end up signing him you get a good piece for the playoffs and end up losing someone you might not have afforded anyways.
Flash ain’t getting a $2.5m+ deal unless he asks for $3 in arb, and that ain’t happening.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
It’s the type of game he plays. Bruce wants someone to go to the net, Flash goes to the net. Bruce wants guys to clear pucks on the PK, Flash does that. Etc.
Bruce wants a redheaded Czech who played for him in Hershey…
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Dec 29, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Based on what, contract year? That’s not the only criteria.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
If he scores 30, he’ll likely become captain and get four years at ~2.5 million.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Dec 29, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
As did I, but needed a little more healthy scratch discussion behind it.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
a few more pina coladas and i’ll start something, promise.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 29, 2009 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Off topic, and I dunno if you’re a native to the islands or just visiting, but get some pancakes with coconut (or passion fruit syrup). It’s good stuff if you don’t mind the early onset diabetes you immediately get afterwards.
Or Loco Moco FTW.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
i like to pretend i’m local, but it’s really just an act. spent my junior and senior years of high school here.
i do dabble in the loco moco. (had it for room service yesterday!)
when i come, i make it a priority to hit up L&L drive-inn two or three times for their plate lunches. chicken katsu, short ribs, i like it all. that’s the stuff that reminds me of my time here (that and zippy’s chili and rice).
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 29, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
A breakout season is a breakout season. Especially in a contract year. I doubt the Caps let him walk rather than pay him $2.5MM for a few years.
No it’s not. He’s got to make the case that he’s worth that much if he elects for arb, otherwise he takes a lower extension or is QO’d.
And if another team signs him for $2.0m per, it’ll cost them a first and third rounder, which I’m sure the Caps will have no qualms about settling for.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
The Caps can and will play hardball in negotiations/arbitration, but they’d be fools to let Flash go if he produces for the rest of the season the way he is now. The Caps have got to have secondary scoring to win a cup, and Flash is the biggest chunk of that right now.
I say he’d be worth $2MM-$2.5MM for the way he’s playing. He has shown “flashes”(sorry) of brilliance in the past, but never consistency. We’re seeing consistency now. Feel free to disagree. We won’t know for 7-8 months anyhow.
His Shooting Pct is now at 25%. There’s almost no way he sustains that for the balance of the year. All to say that I expect his production to tail off.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
When you consider that he doesn’t snipe, that % isn’t as outrageous. He’s getting rebounds or tap-ins.
Respectfully disagree here. His career shooting percentage is 13.2% in the NHL. Being at basically double that is a whopper of an outlier.
And I do think he snipes. I don’t think of Flash as a dirty goal type of guy, though no doubt he does pot the occasional rebound.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
He is a dirty goal guy. He’s probably our most willing “go to the net” guy, it’s just that before this year he was too weak to do anything there.
And I don’t mean to suggest he’ll keep 25%, just that I think he’ll have an above average % somewhat consistently because he has started playing more for rebounds than for far out shots.
He and Fehr have started doing pretty well playing the games you’d expect the other to play. Fehr’s the sniper, Flash is the garbage man. It’s quite amusing.
I think one reason why his shooting percentage is so much higher than his career average is because this year he has been much more of a dirty goal type of guy than in the past. He’s going to the net banging in more rebounds and so his shooting percentage is going up. If that increase is due to this change in playing style and not just some unexplainable aberration, then his shooting percentage may not necessarily drop a ton.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 29, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
If he’s been inconsistent for the first 200 games of his career, you want to give him an almost 300% pay raise based on a fluky year?
I want to play poker with you, my friend.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Look, 70 games in a row isn’t fluky. 20-30, sure. But a full season? Come on.
If Flash scores 30, I have a tough time believing his value isn’t quite a bit higher than the rest of the pack under the OV/Semin/Green/Backstrom level money.
Except that he’s not scored more than 20 in his career. So again, why on earth would you pay a sub-20 goal forward over $2m (from $725k) because he broke 20 or even 30 in his RFA year?
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
You may only want to pay for the sure thing, but a player’s value is eventually determined by the market, and you can bet that offense-hungry teams would jump at the opportunity to pay a 30-goal scorer peanuts compared to other 30-goal scorers(albeit more solidly proven ones).
Yes. So maybe what happened with Semin happens with Flash, and we see a 1-year deal, and the team risks Flash having another big season and seeing his value jump to $5MM per. Or maybe they have faith that he’ll continue to improve and sign him at Laich-like numbers. I would opt for the latter with Flash.
Flash? $5m per?
Coach Boudreau, practice starts in 15 minutes, you really should get going.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, even 2 30-goal seasons aren’t likely enough for a guy like Flash to jump to 5 mil.
He’s on a course (in terms of raw numbers) where he could easily get that contract eventually. It’s more than a year off though.
But still, 2 30-goal seasons puts him significantly above $2MM.
Let’s cross that bridge when (if?) we get to it.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Without question, any additional development from Flash is ambrosia to Caps fans. But it’s not the first time he’s wowed ’em in the first half of the year and then disappeared.
You’ll forgive me if I’m a little skeptical and prefer not to make the leap to him making as much (if not more) than a guy who sees more time on the ice and perhaps could be the team captain in the future.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
Well, that’s the other thing. If Flash stays healthy we’re not having this convo the same way, because he probably ends up hitting 25-30 last season.
If durability (or health, rather, since it was a illness rather than an injury) and more importantly physical endurance become issues, Flash’s value drops.
If they don’t, dude will get paid, eventually.
I don’t know if he’s trending up so much as playing beyond his skill level and awaiting a return to the mean.
Flash has gained weight every season, he is winning battles that he use to lose regularly. At times, at times, he looks dominant. I’m in the camp that thinks he’ll be a 25-30 goal scorer for a number of years, matching assists. Looking at similar players, age, production… He looks to be a $2.5M low-end, $3.5 high-end guy.
Not on his next contract he won’t.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
Certainly not his next contract. He could put up 40 goals this year and he might get 2.5m, but that’s pushing it. He has no consistency to refer back to if he demands more than that.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 29, 2009 8:23 PM EST up reply actions
He nearly got 20 goals last year. Would have broken 20 except for the fact he had been sick with Pneumonia last year and it sapped his strength.
Rocking the Red since 1975
Would have, could have, should have. If he wants to bring up injuries in the hearing (if it gets there), I’d be curious to hear who he compares himself to.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
wrong, this is the current RFA compenstation
$994,433 or below ………………… None
Over $994,433 to $1,506,716…… Third-round choice
Over $1,506,716 to $3,013,434…. Second-round choice
Over $3,013,434 to $4,520,150…. First-round and third-round choice
Over $4,520,150 to $6,026,867…. First-round, second-round and third-round choice
Over $6,026,867 to $7,533,584…. 2 first-round choices, 1 second- and 1 third-round choice
Over $7,533,584 ……………………. Four first-round choices
I’m Projecting theyare gonna sign him exactly to same contract they signed laich to (3 year 2.06 per)
If someone signed Flash to that they’d be giving up two first, a second, and a third. No one’s gonna give that up for Flash.
I didn’t realize the RFA compensation was based on the total value of the contract. That’s a pile to give up for Flash.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
You’re thinking of those that are a certain length (6+ years?), they get averaged over 5 years or something…
First off, if that’s the current RFA compensation for Group 2 RFAs (of which I think Flash is eligible), then both the League and PA suck for not including this update.
Second, there is no way they would sign him to a Laich contract when he’s not even seeing Laich minutes.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
first off signing flash to the same contract as laich is a bargin. He has so much upside and Isn’t gonna cost us an arm and leg like Semin would. We all know semin is gone after next year and the player who is gonna replace him is Flash.
CI’d.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Dec 29, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Trade Flash!
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
first off signing flash to the same contract as laich is a bargin.
No, it isn’t. Yeah, he has upside, yeah he can be productive. But the reality is that he didn’t do that much last year, his stats are skewed by his shooting percentage this year, he doesn’t do a ton when he’s not scoring, he’s not physical, he’s not good defensively, and he’s at an age where potential doesn’t mean that much anymore.
And no one on this team can replace Semin if he leaves.
Laich’s numbers: GP G A PT PIM
2005-06 Washington Capitals NHL 73 7 14 21 26
2006-07 Washington Capitals NHL 73 8 10 18 29 2007-08 Washington Capitals NHL 82 21 16 37 35
2008-09 Washington Capitals NHL 82 23 30 53 31
And
Flash’s Numbers
GP G A PT PIM
2006-07 Washington Capitals NHL 29 4 4 8 8
2007-08 Washington Capitals NHL 75 10 20 30 18
2008-09 Washington Capitals NHL 73 19 18 37 20
I can see him getting something like the contract of Laich. Not much more.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Didn’t come out right but i’m sure you can see numbers wise they are pretty much the same .
Laich Contract is
08-09: 1.7 mil
09-10: 2.1 mil
10-11: 2.4 mil
for a cap hit of 2.06
How isn’t Flash gonna be worth the same amount
How isn’t Flash gonna be worth the same amount
If he’s the player he was last year, not the player he’s been the first two months of this year with a fluky shooting percentage.
Every year he has gotten older he has gotten better. You can say the same for laich. Also laich is older then him so if you really look at that way of course laich should be producing more than him. Also saying Flash’s TOI is low compared to anyone else and can still put up possibly 20-25 goals this year is superub.
Every year he has gotten older he has gotten better.
Yeah, but the rate a player improves at decreases as they get older and Fleischmann’s unlikely to make the same strides in the next two years as he has in the last two. I’m not sure what Laich has to do with that aspect of things, though.
But, honestly, Fleischmann could put up 30 this year and I wouldn’t give him over $2M until I see him in the playoffs again.
Compared to some horrible contracts over in chicago i think we would be lucky to take flash for 2m for 3 years.
And compared to Scott Gomez, Jason Spezza’s contract doesn’t look so bad. The fact that you can find worse deals doesn’t make the one in question a good one.
There are two issues here, certainty and the playoffs. If you can be confident Flash is a legitimate second line scoring talent and that he’ll show up in the playoffs, you give him decent money, if you’re not, you don’t. I’m not convinced of either right now.
by David Getz on Dec 29, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Flash doesn’t see the same TOI, routinely is at (or near) the bottom of ES GAON/60, doesn’t contribute as effectively on special teams…
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn’t hit and can’t play? We still talking about Flash?
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
Talking about Schultz
TRADE THE WEAK PANSEY!
/cled
They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Actually, based on this TSN article, compensation in the $1,307,812-$2,615,625 range, would only cost a second rounder.
LINK
It is very easy for me to see Flash falling in the 2.5 million range if he follows up a 19 goal season with a 30 goal season. If he gets stuck in the low 20’s, closer to 2 million seems more likely to me, but this is just one man’s opinion
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Dec 29, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s the way I got to that conclusion:
Nashville has cash flow problems. They need to save actual dollars spent, versus theoretical salary-cap collars.
Nashville is currently in the playoffs, and would like to end the season there; the playoff revenue would be a great boon to them, and the boost to the fanbase would likewise be very nice.
Their current, glaring shortcoming is putting the puck in the net. In order to get into the playoffs, they need scoring now (meaning they likely wouldn’t be tempted by a future value return). In order to help with their cash flow, they need cheap players. Flash and Fehr satisfy both those requirements; and their RFA status provides them another year (or two?) of lower cost production.
Lastly, Hamhuis isn’t a stiff. Guys that can play at his level are hard to come by, and Poile knows this. That’s why I think he’d demand a young NHL-caliber player in return.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
I agree with this, but I have to ask: is it playmaking they need, or finishing? That’s a key distinction. If it’s playmaking they need, they might be tempted by Perreault. If it’s finishing, I have to think Flash.
Unleash the Alex!
If Poile will do the deal for minor leaguers, I’d do it in a minute. Doubt he does it, though.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Again, depends on what they need. The Jackets / Caps deal happened because both sides had something the other wanted.
Unleash the Alex!
I get you. My comment above was based on my gut feeling that Nashville needs guys who will contribute right now, versus next year.
I don’t think the Caps have anyone in Hershey who could legitimately be an impact guy in the NHL right now.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
A good point, but who do we have to spare that they’d need and could afford? I can’t really think of anything.
Unleash the Alex!
Um, check out Dirk Hoag’s comments below. Fehr and Flash don’t fit into that description.
Unleash the Alex!
He was talking ideal, which the Caps don’t have. But those guys could be good for Nashville even if they’re not the ideal.
One thing to remember
Preds are actually 12th in the league in Goals Per Game. If they’re going to deal Hamhuis, I’d hope Poile would get something pretty significant in return.
More fun than a stick to the face!
On the Forecheck is SB Nation's blog covering the Nashville Predators.
That’s what I’d think, and thanks for the insight. Given that, what would the Preds be looking for in such a scenario?
Unleash the Alex!
The Preds are caught in a bit of a pickle up front. Arnott, Dumont, Erat and Legwand all have no-trade clauses, and are productive parts of the core. Colin Wilson is your 2nd/3rd line center for next season and beyond, and the wing positions are pretty filled up with Sullivan, Ward, and now Hornqvist who finally looks like a legit NHL goal scorer.
If Poile is open to a short-term patch, I’d like to see them get a playmaking center. They could also use a true PP QB on the blueline. They’ve got lots of two-way talent there, but the power play has been a sore spot for years now.
Of course, Poile loves to stockpile draft picks, so if Washington were willing to part with a high one, perhaps that might help as well.
More fun than a stick to the face!
On the Forecheck is SB Nation's blog covering the Nashville Predators.
Don’t know that the Caps have either one of those to spare. David Steckel is mostly a PK’er and a faceoff wizard, and I think the Caps will try to resign him on that basis if they can. The closest I can come for a playmaking center is Mathieu Perreault, and while he’s not a big dude, he plays with a lot of energy and is all over the ice. He got the nickname “Mini-Me” while he was up this year because he looks a lot like a smaller version of Ovechkin when he plays. He’s in Hershey right now and probably needs a bit more seasoning in the A but has a LOT of promise.
Unleash the Alex!
Did he really get that nick name? Where was I when this happened? I would have shouted down whoever proposed it.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Dec 29, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He got the nickname "Mini-Me" while he was up this year because he looks a lot like a smaller version of Ovechkin when he plays.
He does?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
He’s mini-something, alright. Maybe a mini-Briere. But not a mini-Alex.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
They have dark hair.. I don’t see it beyond that!
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Skating posture, maybe. They both are low slung (sigh Bondra), but Perreault has a much longer stride than Ovie’s choppy, ice-eating charges up the ice.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Skating posture, yes. He really does look like a miniature Ovechkin from a distance, cosmetically. Lots of people commented on it…
We all have thought that in our house while watching games and at practices. MP does sometimes use a shorter, choppy step to pick up speed and it looks A LOT like Ovi — so much that we do doubletakes.
Hm. Not sure I see that either, but that’s much more in the eye of the beholder, so whatevs.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
You never noticed? Lots of people seemed to have seen it. I think it’s their skating strides, and hair. Very similar despite the size difference.
I probably willfully ignored it.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Well, the Caps could cough up Matthew Perrault, who is a playmaking center currently in the AHL. Brian Pothier is a PP quarterbacking type of defender (albeit not a great one).
I’d presume that for Hamhuis, the Preds would require quite a bit in addition to either of those two players, of course.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
My guess...
Is that it would take a blueliner currently on the roster (to fill the hole that Hamhuis leaves, say one of Mo, Pothier, or Poti), an offensive prospect (Bouchard maybe), and nothing short of a 2nd round draft pick.
Think he’d do it with Tomas Fleischmann as the center piece?
He makes $725K this year, and is an RFA next year…
In other words, is that enough bang, in your mind, for Poile to pull the trigger on Hamhuis?
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Gut feeling says MP doesn’t get traded, and the AHL package is too cheap. That’s going to take, I’d say, Fehr and ShaMo to get done.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 29, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t know if the caps need Kariya or his huge salary…
but I’ve been a huge fan of the guy for a long time
I’m a little surprised Keith Tkachuk’s not on the list. I thought the entire reason the Blues kept signing him to 1-year contracts was so that they could rent him out for draft picks and just resign him in July.
And hey, if the Caps really need veteran leadership and size down the middle, you could do worse.
Tkachuk wouldn’t be bad, but isn’t he a wing most of the time?
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
He’s played a lot more center in his later years.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
fwiw, weighing what you would have to give up and what you’re getting back – I’d take Tkachuk over S Koivu, but neither are really priorities in my book.
I’m still holding out for Scotty, please.
Heh... "Tkachuk" + "weighing" in the same sentence =
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
the fact that the NHL’s holiday season roster freeze ends today
Was this part written by you yesterday, or is the freeze really over today (29 Dec) and the teams were allowed to announce the trade yesterday anyway?
That was my very first thought. I wondered how we were able to do a trade yesterday.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Yep. For positives I had that he was a physical player, a fast skater, and could kills penalties. For negatives I had that the Caps didn’t really need a depth winger and that his price was a little high for his role.
Um, am I missing something? Conspicuously absent is the one #27-wearing defenseman who seems to be the unanimous #1 choice for a deadline pickup for the Caps.
Spector only did one per team (most likely from each).
That, and Nieds most likely has no desire to go anywhere, and there’s always the off-chance the Ducks respect that and don’t trade him. Koivu is overall a bigger piece just because the market would be much larger (who can afford him, where he might “like” to go if that matters, etc.)
Give it a week, we’ll find something to nitpick.
I’ll take the under.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
I give it one more day – the first time we see him play we’ll find something to fuss about. It’s our job.
Unleash the Alex!
His first practice starts at 5pm west coast time, 8 eastern. Unfortunately it won’t be televised…
ALEX, FЯEE
But it will be blogged. I’m sure someone will find something in the reports.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
I’ve been a Hamhuis fan for a while, but why a team as good as Nashville would want to part with such a player is beyond me. Don’t think I’d trade Flash just as he’s coming into his own as a dangerous scorer. Fehr maybe. Fehr straight up for Hamhius — I’d do it in a second, but that’s not going to happen.
Hamhuis is due for a raise at the end of the season, and Nashville is on a strict sub-cap budget. They have been known to let good players walk outright or for questionable return, so maybe they want to get something back for this guy before he splits.
Erat and Legwand contracts looking more and more like anchors every day.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I wouldn’t be so quick in my Fehr/Flash analysis. Fehr scores almost as much with worse teammates, against better competition, and without the un-sustainably high shooting percentage.
Did you see that laser last night? How could GMGM get rid of that.
That said, Fehr or Flash for Hamhuis would be something to think long and hard about.
Right. Fehr is better (and probably cheaper going forward) than Flash. Maybe the other GMs out there don’t know this, though.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Hamhuis sounds like the best bet of the guys listed.
Jason Williams is certainly no upgrade to Flash, Fehr, or Laich. If anything, his production is way worse than any of that trio.
Rocking the Red since 1975
He’s been comparable to, or better than them over the last couple years, and he’s been on much worse teams. I don’t want him but it’s not fair to say his production’s been “much worse”.
This year, Flash, Fehr, and Laich are all doing a lot better than Williams. Plus, they are all younger than him, as well, so there’s more chance of them improving. I’ll admit that all 3 of these guys are inconsistent but I’d rather have any of them than Williams at this point. And all 3 of them have moved back & forth between lines. Flash has appeared on the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd lines this year but usually on the 2nd. Fehr has appeared on all 4 lines during the last two years, most commonly on the 2nd or 3rd, with his best productivity when he’s on the 2nd line. Laich has appeared on the 2nd mostly this year, on the 2nd or 3rd last year, and even on the first on occasion.
Rocking the Red since 1975
Steve Ott is a taint
I understand why players like him must exist, but if it’s not mine I’m just kinda disgusted by it.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Rob Parker on Dec 29, 2009 4:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
He’d bring that “tough to play against” edge, without a doubt. Kinda like Tie Domi.
It would make me feel icky to say anything positive about the Caps picking him up, though.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
How did I get suckered in to watching all of those videos? Sheesh.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Dec 29, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Claude The Turtle also insults figure skating! Thank you, CBC, thank you!
Fun fact: A popular opinion can still be stupid.
I hope you don’t think I was insulting figure skating. I might have some changes to suggest so it could be more sport and less theatre, but I still like to watch. Plus I really like Jamie Sale.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Dec 29, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
oh no, not at all! Figure skating is completely my once every 4 year olympic obsession. I used to follow it more, but the new judging system really killed it for me.
Battle of the Blades, though? So bad, it’s awesome. Loved every cheesy second of it.
Fun fact: A popular opinion can still be stupid.
Yep. Cheeseriffic.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Dec 29, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting interview with Ott during this week’s Puck Podcast.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 29, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
You just teasing me? Got a link and a synopsis?
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
Sorry, no synopsis, other than Scott Hannan is a lot smarter and more articulate. Link is puckpodcast.com — interview starts about 2/3 or 3/4 in. Most interesting part is where he talks about being a players union assistant rep.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 30, 2009 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
Chicago isn’t moving anyone until June/July. (which looking way down the road, I hope Seabrook becomes a product of bad cap planning and we can pick him up).
Promote the game, it's the NHL, not SCHL
That would be some horrible cap ramifications, having to dump a guy like Seabrook.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Dont get me wrong, I am not disagreeing with him being the person that gets moved, it’s the timing of the move for Chicago that i disagree with. I don’t see the need for them to tinker before the season ends.
Promote the game, it's the NHL, not SCHL
Aren’t they hitting all sorts of bonus cushions for the cap this year? If they want to do any kind of roster tinkering (even for injuries), it might be in their best interests to move some of those guys they have to move in the offseason anyway. Sopel’s name has been on the block for months, and he’s not an integral part of that team by any means.. he might be moved before season ends.
Kim Johnsson seems to fit the bill
High cap hit shouldn’t be a factor given the number of days that will be remaining in the season.
Price shouldn’t be too high either, as he is a pending UFA and the Wild will likely get nothing for him if they don’t deal him.
Hammy is good but at what price? And at what price are you re-signing him?
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Hammy is good but at what price? And at what price are you re-signing him?
That’s the 64,000 dollar question.
Agree with you that Johnsson is the next best alternative to Hamhuis on the list.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Another option (not listed) may be Barrett Jackman if /when STL falls out of it. He’s a year older than Hammer but reasonably cost controlled for two more years at money I think Hamhuis may exceed.
And dealing with Poile = draft pick extraction, most likely, in addition to scoring. I have trouble seeing GMGM getting the best of David Poile in any event.
Support your local bakery!
Jackman would be a huge loss to the Blues
He is one of the few leaders they have. He is very much for leading by example, does extra laps and such. I think the STL price for him would be higher than expected because of that, or they would need someone else back that can equal that. Since we traded away Clark, doubtful it will happen.
They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
Other names to chat about (can-opener post):
Jordan Leopold
Marek Zidlicky
Doug Weight
Jeff Halpern
Owen Nolan
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Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
I enjoyed Halpern in his time here, but his best years are behind him. I wouldn’t bring him back. Leopold is/would be okay, but nothing more. Weight is comparable to Tkachuk, and I’d rather have Tkachuk. Tkachuk is comparable to Arnott, and I’d rather Arnott. Nolan is a treat for Ovechkin, but probably not for the rest of us.
I can’t remember enough about Zidlicky to say either way.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 29, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
Good offensive D, questionable defensive D.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I don’t know if he’d turn down a chance to move to a legitimate Cup contender.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Sometimes there are things that trump that move. Not saying they should or shouldn’t, but I think I read that Kaberle is refusing to waive his no trade again. Anyone feel that Toronto has a strong chance at the Cup this year?
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
OT: The fact that we can have these discussions
makes me very happy.
Much better than last year, when there was just not enough room to upgrade.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
The 2009 model Washington Capitals – lighter, more efficient, and extra cargo room!
Winterion Game Studios
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But what about the cup holder?
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 29, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
We’ve been caught with our hand in the cookie jar, it seems!
http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2009/12/29/1224167/capitals-fans-covet-hamhuis
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
Wouldn’t be the first time someone from DC went down to Tennessee and potentially tampered with a player.
"I didn't mind a diminished role because we were winning so much and we're such a great team and had a chance to do something in the playoffs...I would have taken any role on this team to do that.
by Bald Pollack on Dec 29, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s definitely weird going to other team blogs and only seeing a hand-full of posts on each subject. I guess we’re spoiled with so much activity
Guess the asking price is now Varly/Neuvy and Alzner/Carlzon. ;-)
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Thanks DMG
Fifteen smart looks at the Caps, the cap, and the angles. I’m going to read it again now and use it until the deadline.
/T. Rec’d
Lines at practice
Ovechkin-Morrison-Knuble
Chimera-Backstrom-Semin
Fleischmann-Laich-Fehr
Laing-Steckel/Gordon-Bradley
nice…that third line needs a center, but I am eager to see the chemistry with the new fella.
Support your local bakery!
Chimera-Backstrom-Semin
Speed kills, baby.
I like the separation of AO and Jizz. I like the third line OK in terms of play on the ice (but who takes the draws).
Steckel might be looking at healthy scratch territory if he doesn’t pick it up.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Steckel might get pushed off of any regular line but he’ll still be in to win faceoffs and play PK. Even though he looked like he had zero interest playing on Monday he’s still a pretty good guy to have out shorthanded. Anything else, he’s been pretty rough but the lines he has been on have been limiting what little offensive potential he has.
After last night’s stinker, BB decided that the lines needed to be shaken up — big time. The second line has not been very productive, as of late, despite the talent there. The first line had an off day (but were not totally worthless) but did need to be shaken up.
Rocking the Red since 1975
Could Mueller be traded for, and then get stashed away in hershey, or would he have to clear waivers? Seems like he might be a nice pickup if Phoenix needs some D-men.
Mueller has been garbage since his concussion. I’d tread lightly there (not sure his waiver status, though, to not answer your question).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
LOL I find this really funny because whenever I play Be a GM Mode in NHL 10
I immediately trade for hamhuis and pekka rinne in the first draft (as top 4 defensemen and backup goalie respectively). I would love to have hamhuis in actual reality too. Do you think giving up osala and/or perrault as well as shamo would be fair for both sides?
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
53 | 25 | 17 | 11 | 61 |
|
Washington
|
54 | 28 | 21 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
56 | 26 | 24 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
53 | 23 | 24 | 6 | 52 |
|
Carolina
|
55 | 20 | 25 | 10 | 50 |
(updated 2.10.2012 at 9:27 AM EST)
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