Monday Caps Clips: Hurricanes @ Caps Game Day
by J.P. on Dec 28, 2009 6:47 AM EST
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- Hey, look - it's the 'Canes again. Here are previews of tonight's game from Peerless and NHL.com, and be sure to check out our SB Nation partner Canes Country for coverage from the other side of tonight's match up.
- Alexander Semin and his agent chat about the winger's new deal. [Puck Daddy]
- Speaking of Semin, apparently when you make $6 million, you sit wherever you want to. [FanShot]
- A look at the Caps' goaltending depth, with a focus on the latest young stopper to step up. [TWT]
- I guess the Caps got some love during the 'Skins/Cowboys "game" last night. Not exactly the NBC broadcast the Caps wanted to be a part of this week, but you take what you can get.[Twitpic, @dcsportsbog, @nateewell]
- Nicklas Backstrom on making Team Sweden, Brooks Laich on making Team Slumpin', and Jose Theodore on trying to get back into the starting lineup. [WaPo]
- Boyd Gordon is comfortable back in Hershey (for a brief conditioning stint), but the locals may be over-estimating him a bit with lines like "if the magic that Fleischmann found in his conditioning stint with the Bears two months ago works just as well for Gordon, the Capitals may suddenly find themselves with another scoring threat." [LDN]
- Braden Holtby was strong yet again for Hershey, stopping 28 shots in the Bears' 7-1 win over Norfolk. [Bears]
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“We’re really pleased that we’ve drafted some good young goalies,” McPhee said. “To now talk about trading them doesn’t make any sense. We’ll take our time and develop these guys. We’ll see what they’re capable of doing and make some decisions down the road. It sure is nice to have young goalies in the system.”
Hope this means I get a chance to show folks what I can do as part of this equation.
Signed,
B. Holtby
"People would rather talk in this town right now about Ovechkin than the Washington Redskins."
Someone bolt down Theo’s nameplate…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 28, 2009 7:24 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, he just works here.
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 7:29 AM EST up reply actions
Think it’s safe to say that he probably won’t be after this season.
"I am ready for his provocations"
by PaintDrinkingPete on Dec 28, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
Certainly not for the current price…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
This really is a problem. When Varly is playing again, Neuvy has to go back to Hershey, and Holtby has to go back to Carolina. That means that neither Neuvy nor Holtby will be playing at the level optimal for their development.
"We take the shortest route to the puck and arrive in ill humor." - Bobby Clarke
Disagree about Neuvirth. From what I’ve seen of him, he could still use some more time in a developmental league. Time in Hershey certainly won’t hurt him.
And time in the E won’t hurt Holtby. Right now, for both of them, it’s about playing time and seeing a lot of shots. I think it’s different for goalies than, say, defensemen. Good D-men need to play with other good D-men to learn the system and learn their responsibilities. Goalies just need to see a lot of shots, a lot of good scoring chances. And that certainly happens in the E.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with this. I don’t think that either guy is in a sub-optimal gig upon return… for now.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
If Holtby didn’t get nervous playing in front of this guy, I don’t think his mental state will ever be an issue.
http://blog.pennlive.com/patriotnewssports/2009/12/gordie_howe_attends_hershey_be_1.html
by OverTheBoards on Dec 28, 2009 8:09 AM EST up reply actions
Whatever we’re paying Irbe, we should double it and then buy him a car. Maybe even a house.
ALEX, FЯEE
I liked Prior, but Irbe’s ability to teach and get improvement quickly has been extremely impressive.
A man gotta have a code
by Carl Putnam on Dec 28, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
Cross posting from the JRHL 12/21 update, but here’s an interesting tidbit to chew on (via the little rotowire popup next to his name) – Sidney Crosby is +18 at Mellon arena this season. Since he’s +14 for the year, he’s -4 on the road.
We repeat that regular season means Robin but, last years results notwithstanding, home ice could be very important.
Disclaimer: I have not looked at other players on Eastern Conference contending teams to see if a similar pattern holds. This could be nothing more than an amusing outlier, but I have to get going and don’t have time to look right now.
P.S. I’ll be on the run all day, so if someone else wants to put up the JRHL standings this week, please do.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 28, 2009 7:34 AM EST reply actions
On the run? Are you on the lam? You should be, for all the criminal acts your team inflicted on mine. :(
I could have been equipment manager, but nooooo!
Pat Kane sucker punched the goats over a few lousy standings points.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 28, 2009 7:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Quality monkey humor = automatic rec.
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Colbert monkey humor = much needed on Monday morning. Rec’d!
by mercurialwinger on Dec 28, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
It’s actually the worst road plus-minus of any player in the top 113 in +/- overall.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
But Alex doesn’t play defense or backcheck! And Sid isn’t selfish and has a stanley cup, so he’s much better at everything!
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 28, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions
Parise’s is +15….good heavens. Although, its so dead at Prudential Center 90% of the time he probably feels like THOSE are his home games.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 28, 2009 8:04 AM EST up reply actions
Is GM Place a home or away game for Team Canada?
‘Cos Green leads all defensemen not named Jeff Schultz in away games with a plus nine, and shares the lead for all defensemen (whose name I’ve seen on the bubble list) with Drew Doughty in home games with a plus seven.
That’s just the bubble list. All the names I’ve seen as stone cold locks have worse home plus/minus ratings.
Which prolly means they aren’t using plus/minus as a yardstick.
Oh, Canada.
ALEX, FЯEE
Schultz for Selke!
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 28, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Pssh. The Selke should win Schultz.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 28, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I’m more impressed by this — Ovechkin is plus-5 in the SE Division; he is plus-16 against teams outside the SE. He isn’t fattening up that stat against the Little Sisters of the Poor.
If you've read this far...seek help.
But out of 30 games he has only played five against the SE. It seems he has hasn’t had the chance to rack it up quite yet.
"Alex Ovechkin makes Chad Johnson look like he's reading the paper."
Right, he means that AO is beating up everybody, not just the “Southleast.”
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, could somebody please help me out….
I was at the Skins-Cowgirls game last night so I didn’t see the broadcast and Twitter is blocked at my office.
What kind of “love” did NBC show the Caps?
I’m really curious because after all, they don’t think the Caps are much of a TV draw to the begin with…
Ted Leonsis Used to Recommend: http://capsnut.blogspot.com/
Everybody Wang Chung......
Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™
The announcers said that they saw far more Ovechkin jerseys around town than redkins jerseys.
by Doncosmic on Dec 28, 2009 8:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn’t characterize the Michaels/Collingsworth commentary as “love” for the Caps. It was more like additional piling on to the already down-trodden Redskins. Quips like Ovechkin jerseys are outselling Redskins jerseys, DC not a hockey town compared to Detroit, yet Ovechkin is most popular DC sports figure. Continuing with the hockey theme and at the very end of the game when it became apparent Skins were not going to score, Collingsworth stated the Skins “just can’t get the puck in the net.”
The Caps have eight wins this month (they had eight in October and eight in November, too). Of those eight wins, only one was a one-goal win — a 4-3 OT win against Carolina. In the other seven wins, the average margin of victory was 3.7 goals.
If you've read this far...seek help.
That’s ridiculous (make sure to tweet it).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Especially ridiculous when about a month ago we were wondering if the Caps would ever start to finish games they had in hand because they were making every game a 1 goal contest.
by HateOffSeason on Dec 28, 2009 9:22 AM EST up reply actions
Here’s another… the last home loss to an SE team for the Caps was last March 3… against Carolina (5-2, and Neuvirth was the goalie).
If you've read this far...seek help.
How about the Caps allowing just 2.22 goals per game over their last 18 games (giving up 28.9 shots per game and killing off 81.7% of their penalties in that span)?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
You guys are on a roll.
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 28, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
“if the magic that Fleischmann found in his conditioning stint with the Bears two months ago works just as well for Gordon, the Capitals may suddenly find themselves withanother scoring threata good defensive forward who can win some faceoffs.”
"Alex Ovechkin makes Chad Johnson look like he's reading the paper."
New content (and don’t forget “Ups and Downs” at 11).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Quote from Dmimitry's Puck Daddy article
Here’s another thought. Since the “new” post-lockout NHL, there hasn’t been an unrestricted free agent available on the market like Semin. This is exactly what the Atlanta Thrashers are struggling with right now — how much is Ilya Kovalchuk(notes) worth to the team and on the free market? Semin is not Kovalchuk, but if a player of the magnitude of the Atlanta captain can command $11 million per year, Semin can definitely fetch more than $6 million on the open market.
Gaborik was a UFA and signed a 5 year $7.5 million per year deal. Is that what Semin is aiming for? Like Gaborik, Semin has a history of injuries but I don’t know if Semin can realistically expect to make that kind of money
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
If he has some Olympic bling and a deep playoff run, maybe. Let’s see if he lays a hattie on the Panthers tonight.
ALEX, FЯEE
Maybe we should just combine the two at this point into the Hanthers. Or the Purricanes.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 28, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
They wouldn’t even have to change their logo.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 28, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Purricanes.
Sounds like my cats when they get into it and start chasing each other around the house!
Or cats puttering around in tiny cars, which would be adorable.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 28, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
It’s worth noting that prior to signing this extension, Semin was somewhat untradeable for any fair value due to the uncertainty of next season (i.e. the lure of the KHL, no contract, etc.). Now that he’s locked in to an NHL deal for next year (whatever that does or doesn’t mean), he’s actually more tradeable than he was before.
Do I think the Caps signed him to trade him? No, not at all. But he is more attractive to potential suitors today than he was last week.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Given his history of not taking well to new situations, a new six million dollar price tag, and impending UFA status; I really think his trade value has evaporated.
Now if it was a long term deal (4-5 years), you would have a point because the KHL lure would be gone, he would have plenty of time to adjust, and some of his UFA years had already been bought up.
Ted Leonsis Used to Recommend: http://capsnut.blogspot.com/
Everybody Wang Chung......
Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™
Schultz lobby request
Hey JP – just thought of this and I think it would bode well for the Schultz lobby…. Do you think you can track Alzner’s nhl stats and development in comparison with Schultz’s? I think this would reflect favorably on the Sarge in that they both probably produce the same except the fans love Alzner do to hype and dump on Sarge. I could be way off but I think there game is comparable enough (positional over hits, etc) and I just don’t have access to some of those deeper stats you produce. Thank You!
I did a FanPost last year on it, though DMG’s larger article includes comparable current players at a similar point.
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
ahh thank you. This reflects two things, 1) your deep and retrievable memory of hot caps topics and 2) The Schultz lobby will forever have to defend themselves no matter the year.
Wait until the third year; the lobby rewards you with a commemorative jacket for your dedicated service.
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Twitter all a-buzz with trade rumors surrounding Caps and CBJ…FYI. No real news yet.
"I am ready for his provocations"
by PaintDrinkingPete on Dec 28, 2009 11:49 AM EST reply actions
I see that. Who does Columbus have that we’d want and could realistically get? Or are we shipping out a low-ranking defenseman for a pick (or picks)?
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
From what I’m seeing on twitter, looks like ShaMo or Juice for a Chimera or Torres (or Filatov?) kinda deal…but that seems to be NOTHING more than speculation.
"I am ready for his provocations"
by PaintDrinkingPete on Dec 28, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
ShaMo for Filatov is something I could go for. Realistically I doubt it happens.
I am easily satisfied with the very best
As much as Filatov has struggled on North American ice, the Caps would still have to move an Alzner-esque+ prospect to get him, and that ain’t happening.
Like I said, not happening, even in video game land it would probably take more.
I am easily satisfied with the very best
Honestly, I could see Filatov coming for, frankly, any warm body. CBJ isn’t going to use him the way he wants to be used (i.e. correctly), so they’re going to get nothing for him. The Caps being Team-Russia-away-from-Russia have the best chance to make him happy and see him produce.
In fact, thinking about it, that makes perfect sense, especially if Jizz doesn’t last more than next year.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I could see Filatov coming for, frankly, any warm body. CBJ isn’t going to use him the way he wants to be used (i.e. correctly), so they’re going to get nothing for him.
Disagree. If you make it know that Filatov’s available someone out there will give up something of substance to get him.
Right. That’s exactly what I was getting at. Just because someone else would give up more doesn’t mean it will happen (Guerin for a 3rd rounder, for example – or was it a 4th?).
Also, I don’t know the rules regarding trades: does it have to “be made known” around the league, not just NHL HQ, before a trade is completed?
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
Right, but does that mean that they have to alert every team in the league about a trade going down?
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Err wow, I didn’t answer your question. I’m not sure anything needs ‘made known’ – I guess they send updates around the league but it’s between the teams in the league.
Also, I don’t know the rules regarding trades: does it have to "be made known" around the league, not just NHL HQ, before a trade is completed?
No, but if you’re trying to maximize the return on an asset, wouldn’t you let all potential buyers know it’s for sale?
Depends on your realistic expectations. As great as Filatov could be, all the league sees is a whiny kid who didn’t want to play for a good coach.
I can see AO being a sit-down-and-STFU factor for his maturity, though, which he may not get elsewhere.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
As great as Filatov could be, all the league sees is a whiny kid who didn’t want to play for a good coach.
I don’t think that’s true, I think they see an extremely talented young player who wanted to play hockey rather than be screwed around with.
Sort of like another Russian who played for C-Bus.
A man gotta have a code
by Carl Putnam on Dec 28, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Hitchcock is a reputably good coach, though. It came off as immaturity to me (even though I agreed that he was being misused), and I’d be surprised if it wasn’t viewed that way by a good many ppl.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
He actually has a rep for being a pain in the rear end sometimes.
A man gotta have a code
by Carl Putnam on Dec 28, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he’s been successful, but he’s also married to his system and has a reputation for not trusting younger players.
Well, if Filatov is actually on the table, I can only hope CBJ wants to work with us.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
Filatov in Columbus is the mirror image of Nylander in Washington… bad fit, nothing more.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Dec 28, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Speaking of Nylander…is it important that he be racking up gaudy numbers in Grand Rapids?
‘Cos he isn’t.
ALEX, FЯEE
Not sure what you’re talking about – the guy has 14 points in 11 games and is leading his team in points/game by a half a point/game. Link.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
also re: YNC’s question: no, not important.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
For a true NHLer playing in the A, I think the expectations would be for him to nearly have double that.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
Late to the party ....
If Filatov has been loaned to the KHL for the balance of the season, and he is traded to another organization, does that end the loan or do we simply trade an asset to have him next season?
Unleash the Alex!
The Filatov possibility is potentially intriguing, but probably more because of the Russian factor than anything, and that it doesn’t do anything to the forward roster until next year. I mean, if we trade a spare D for a forward, then we have spare forwards. Just moves the roster crowding.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Tyutin? Hejda? Brassard?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
with the minutes some of these guys are getting this year, it’s all possible. brassard, the young and upcoming center, would be moooooney.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I’d take Backes over Oshie—apparently he has been in the doghouse with Andy Murray (per the STL announcing crew over the weekend), and that would address a toughness quotient and a hole (potentially) at the pivot.
Support your local bakery!
by bigonetimer on Dec 28, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
I would take Oshi over Backes every day of the week. He’s plenty tough. All young guys go through Murray’s doghouse, especially ones that are having Backes’ statistical year. I’d take either but don’t think either is likely at all.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
St. Louis probably doesn’t want anything it can have of ours, anyway.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I hear an echo. Or great minds think alike.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Filatov to DC might have been a possibility (remote) before Semin was resigned. It is virtually a betting certainty he isn’t part of any discussion at this point. Why would the Caps, who lead the league in scoring, want another scorer, having to almost certainly give up a high-end defensive prospect in the exchange, want to make such a deal?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Dec 28, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
Because he’s someone I’ve heard of!
Cled
by David Getz on Dec 28, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I’m going out on a limb here… Jared Boll will be making the trip to San Jose with the Caps.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Dec 28, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, I was thinking Torres.
If C’bus gives up Boll I would imagine they want more than what’s being talked about.
that’s why I’m out on that limb…. ;)
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Dec 28, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
What’s your love with Boll? Do you see some sort of upside in him? He’s pretty much a grinder in my eyes, don’t know why he’d require more than Shamo or another of our spare D.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
He’s an RFA; ShaMo is a UFA. If they both had the same contract status, I could see it. But ShaMo for Boll leaves CBJ with nothing next year.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
Not like Boll is worth a ton, but if that’s the concern throw a 6th or 7th for their troubles.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
I could get behind this, but it would probably take a 3rd, I’m guessing. And I think it’d be a good deal.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
No. A 3rd by itself is probably more valuble than Boll. The guy’s a thug. He’s Matt Bradley with less skill.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Yes, but is it worth it to them if we also require them to take ShaMo and his $2M salary off our hands?
I kid (mostly)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Not a bad guess. That would satisfy the ‘Caps lack toughness’ crowd. My concern would be what would the Caps have to give up.
A man gotta have a code
by Carl Putnam on Dec 28, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
ShaMo/Juice/Erskine would be fine with me.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
i literally laughed out loud when i saw this comment at the columbus dispatch:
eric:
Are rumors of a 3 way with Alzner going to Colu and Kaberle to Was. Don’t know who Tor would get.
Posted by eric | December 28, 2009 12:32 PM
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
CD’ed?
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions
Hahahahahahhahahahahhahahahah…no.
CBJ is dreaming – I highly doubt and sincerely hope that Alzner is not part of a package.
Although – could he be being scratched so that other guys can be showcased for a deal?
Unleash the Alex!
Oh shit.
You have won the logic bowl.
Why didn’t I think of that?
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Stop the panic, and stop it right now.
There’s zero chance that the Caps trade Alzner. Zero.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Right. I agree with that. So they scratch him because he’s not an option in the trade bowl. ShaMo, Juice, and Sloan all get sweaters so that CBJ can see them play and see what they can do. It’s hard to get trade value for a guy who’s a healthy scratch on a regular basis.
Unleash the Alex!
if the trade is going down today, these guys are not getting PT so CBJ can see them play.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Possible. Because there’s no way this whole thing could possibly mean what it appears to on the surface.
Unleash the Alex!
I actually think it is as simple as:
- Bruce has more defensemen than he can play.
- He has decided that he must play Sloan to keep Sloan an active part of the team.
- Alzner is a rookie and at the bottom of the seniority totem pole.
Therefore, Alzner sits. I don’t agree with this line of thinking, but it is very Boudreau. After reading his book, I’m convinced that this is how he thinks, at least during the regular season. Call it an overactive loyalty to his players.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is probably accurate – from tarik:
If Karl Alzner is being scratched tonight for any reason other than it’s his turn to sit, well, that’s news to him.
Unleash the Alex!
Except my guess is the guy being traded would not be the first one told.
Not that I think Alzner’s going anywhere, and I’m sure they told him with as much confidence as he could that this was the case – but you don’t tell a guy you’re trading him before it’s final. That’s just setting yourself up for a bad situation if it falls through.
Which was pretty much my point. Namely, Bruce has been in Sloan’s shoes during his playing career, thus feels some sympathy for him. I get it. But why bench Alzner? The one guy on the roster who needs game experience? Go ahead, give Sloan playing time, but fer Chrissakes, scratch Erskine, ShaMo, or Juice.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Games against Pittsburgh and games against Carolina count the same in December.
by David Getz on Dec 28, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
why do the two have to be connected? BB made the call.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
It’s probably going down before the trip to SJ on Wednesday, i think was the point.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Stop the insanity Bruce
Via Corey:
As for Alzner not playing, Boudreau said Tyler Sloan deserves to play again. Sloan has not played in six of the past seven games.
“We survived without [Alzner] playing before,” Boudreau said. “We’ve got nine good defensemen here. The last time Tyler played was in Edmonton. He had an assist and played a great game, so I just don’t think it is fair to keep him out all the time.”
Fair?!?! Fair?!?! Fair’s got nothing to do with it. Tyler Sloan is a marginal NHL player who should be thanking his lucky stars that he’s gotten to stick in the NHL for much of this season. Karl Alzner is, hopefully, a key cog in the future and, currently, one of our better defensemen.
If Bruce thinks Karl needs a rest, fine. If Karl’s nursing an injury, fine. If Bruce thinks Karl isn’t playing up to his standards and he’s sending Karl a message that he won’t be handed anything, fine. . .
But if Bruce thinks that he needs to bench one of our better players, just so some scrub can get his 15 minutes of ice time, he’s wrong. Bruce has shown some questionable tendencies with his lineup in the past, and although I (sort of) get where he’s coming from – Sloan needs to get on the ice from time to time if he’s going to be effective when we need him – this is just plain stupid. Benching Alzner isn’t the way to get Sloan ice time. If Alzner still needs to sit on occasion (which I don’t believe), then he’s better off in Hershey getting regular playing time. Otherwise, bench one of Morrisonn, Erskine or Jurcina, but for God’s sake, don’t bench Alzner.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
by D'ohboy on Dec 28, 2009 12:46 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Well said, and rec’d. I’d also point out that Sloan’s best games have been at F so maybe benching Q would have been the wiser choice.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
Q can’t be benched. Not only is he the 2nd sparkle in BB’s eye, he gave up his jaw for the team!
/snark, with added truth.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I thought of that, but I think they want Q to get back in game shape, which kinda/sorta makes sense. Also, Q had some good PK shifts the other night. Still, benching the guy who was #2 in defensive ice time last game? Dumb.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Yeah. Basically any other D not named Schultz or Green would have been a wiser choice than Alzner if Sloan needs ice. Is this some sort of rookie pecking order BS?
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
Actually, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if it was a seniority issue.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
And that would be ridiculous.
A man gotta have a code
by Carl Putnam on Dec 28, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Look at Flash: BB plays and picks his favorites. It’s not smart, but he’s been rewarded thus far.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Not to me. I understand you are going with the favorites analogy, but Flash taking time from a more deserving guy I can deal with to a degree. Sloan taking time from pretty much anyone much less Alzner is just ridiculous.
Keep in mind Alzner may be a little nicked and that is why he was chosen. However, if BB is serious then I’ve got issues.
A man gotta have a code
The logic win is higher above; perhaps Alz is scratched to showcase someone else.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
For one game? Seriously? That’s ridiculous. In trades, the guy who gets pulled from the game is usually the guy packing his bags. . .
…which has me nervous.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
That’s hash that I just can’t smoke, my friend. Unless we’re getting back Steve Mason, Alz isn’t going anywhere.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Steve Mason straight up for Theo, ShaMo, Sloan, and a 1st, yo.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
My hash comes in the form of red wine at work.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Is your office hiring? Or do you work at a winery?
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 28, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
No, I have to pack my own, or have a really heavy night the previous night. Frankly, my disposition doesn’t change much, and I can still certainly do my work, so I don’t get bothered.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I hope he’s kidding. I want no part in Steve Mason, even for Caps leftovers.
A man gotta have a code
Steve Mason for Theo, etc.?
You really wouldn’t take that deal?
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
Mason’s having a really bad year. It’s hard to tell if it’s just that sophomore slump (which seems to impact goalies more, partly because of how much they’re in the spotlight) or if his one good year was just that – one good year.
Either way, I agree. No need to give up a proven goalie who has had some really good games for an unproven one who has had some REALLY bad stinkers this year.
I suppose that’s true, but, given the likelihood of Jose’s return next season, I’d take Steve Mason and his potential in an instant.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think he’s going anywhere, either, but the notion that we’re “showcasing” a player for one game is asinine. If CBus doesn’t know what the a guy like ShaMo can bring after 378 NHL games, one game won’t make a difference.
My point was that it’s usually the other way around with trades – the guy sitting is the guy on the move.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
It’s possible, and true enough, but it’s not like GMGM never breaks the rules.
Don’t panic. I don’t think Alzner moves either. Maybe it really is what Gabby says it is and we’re all reading too much into it because we have nothing better to do.
Unleash the Alex!
I would tend to agree with this; all of us are sitting out here playing “armchair coach,” and – gasp – I’m pretty sure Gabby knows what he’s doing.
And I’m pretty sure he’s not infallible.
by David Getz on Dec 28, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Everyone on the Rink knows exactly what is going on in Coach Boudreau’s mind every minute of every day, and we all know better than he does how to run his team.
And if you believe that, I have some nice beachfront property in Arizona for you…
can’t find that statement anywhere in the archives..
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Some oceanfront property?
In Arizona?
From my front porch you can see the seaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa….
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 28, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
…and from my back porch you can see Russia.
by mechanicsville on Dec 28, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t second guess every move Bruce makes. I second guess the ones where he demonstrates a pattern of problematic behavior. His tendency to have soft spots for certain players, and to play them in favor of younger/more talented players, is a known quantity.
Bruce is a good coach, but he makes a lot of mistakes. Having read his book, I imagine that he’d be the first to admit it.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
generalizations are so rarely generalizable.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
But snarkasm is always snarkable
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
All last year, we commented that the team had difficulty going to the net and scoring “dirty” goals. Then we nearly got eliminated by the Rangers Henrik Lundqvist, in part because of an inability to score dirty goals.
Bruce has some very consistent and observable blind spots – his affection for certain players (particularly marginal players who try hard) is one of them.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
He does, but so does everyone else. We’re all human, and that’s not a crime. I don’t think an Alzner scratch is panic-worthy as some here seem to be doing. I don’t think he’s going to be traded. Really. It’s not the end of the world. This is the time to experiment with your lineup and see what happens with different looks.
Unleash the Alex!
That doesn’t mean you ABSOLUTELY MUST play him every night. Guys, seriously. It is not the end of the world. CALM THE HELL DOWN. We’ll see how it goes.
Unleash the Alex!
CALM DOWN!!
SAYS THE PERSON POSTING IN ALL CAPS!!!
Seriously, I wouldn’t have said anything if it weren’t part of a larger pattern on Bruce’s part. It’s not “just one game.” He often makes weird roster decisions based on seemingly dubious reasons.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
by D'ohboy on Dec 28, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
d’ohboy, i just don’t understand what’s dubious about it. it fits BB’s MO, as laid out by GOD’s list. everyone takes a turn. as long as alzner’s turn comes much much less often, i’m okay with it. if the alzner scratch in particular becomes a pattern, i’ll be right there with you.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
it fits BB’s MO, as laid out by GOD’s list. everyone takes a turn.
Right, this is what it all boils down to. Some guys should be in the lineup every night, some guys should be rotated through as necessary. Some people think Alzner’s a guy who should be in the lineup every night, some people don’t. It doesn’t go beyond that.
What the hell is this? Mites? Does everyone get a Stanley Cup at the end of the season pizza party?
Again, I didn’t say that Sloan shouldn’t get a shot, I just think that benching the kid who’s up here in order to get NHL experience seems counter intuitive at best.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
team-building exists in every professional work environment.
and all of the D you’ve been mentioning that are better candidates for a night off HAVE been getting nights off.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Alzner’s played 21 games in Hershey. Let me know when the other guys have had 21 nights off.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
21 games in hershey ≠ 21 games off, but i’m sure you knew that.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
The fact that he spent 21 games in Hershey, because of the cap, is enough. This isn’t about resting.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Why does it have to be "about" ANYTHING other than "it’s Alzner’s turn to sit down?!"
It doesn’t. It’s about whether Alzner’s a guy who should play every night or a guy who should be rotated in and out.
But why does it have to be about Alzner?
Because he’s the one being scratched.
You're missing my point...
Why is it about the guy being rotated OUT and not about the guy being rotated IN?
IRTR, you’re getting yourself in trouble here. d’ohboy’s comment that started the whole thing says pretty clearly that he doesn’t have a problem with giving sloan playing time. he’d rather see erskine or juice or shaMo sit than alzner. that’s the whole crux of the argument.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but everyone’s having a frakkin’ COW over this, and it ain’t worth it.
That’s a different discussion.
There are two issues at work:
(1) Sloan is playing
(2) Alzner is not
The two are not tied together. The reason 2 is getting a lot more discussion is that people either don’t disagree with 1 or don’t feel that strongly about it.
The debate over 2 is whether Alzner should be dressed every night or he shouldn’t. Why shouldn’t he?
Actually, thus far only you and Gotsparkly seem to be having a cow. I keep restating the same points that I have been. Perhaps it’s my mistake for arguing with a wall.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Or perhaps we’re looking at the coin from opposite sides.
I don’t think Alzner has to dress every night for the Caps to win. Certainly he doesn’t have to dress against Carolina. We’ve beaten them twice this year without him. It’s just not a big deal in the grand scheme of things if the boy gets to sit a game out and watch. It’s ONE GAME.
I don’t think Alzner has to dress every night for the Caps to win.
Neither does Ovechkin, Green, Backstrom, or Semin. But they do, because their presence in the lineup makes it more likely the Capitals will win.
Certainly he doesn’t have to dress against Carolina. We’ve beaten them twice this year without him. It’s just not a big deal in the grand scheme of things if the boy gets to sit a game out and watch. It’s ONE GAME
But why sit him? What does it achieve other than hurt the team and get the young player less NHL ice time? For all the talk that people are overreacting to Alzner’s scratch I haven’t heard any reason that he should be scratched.
Why is it about the guy being rotated OUT and not about the guy being rotated IN?
Presumably because no one has a problem with the idea that a guy should be kept fresh by playing on a regular basis.
Sometimes, it’s jut about keeping 23 guys happy, getting them all playing time and letting them get the warm and fuzzy feeling that they, too, are contributing.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Oh, I agree, but that doesn’t mean you have to play him every single night. I’m sory, dude, I don’t agree with you here, and I think you need to step back from the ledge on this.
Unleash the Alex!
by gotsparkly on Dec 28, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that’s the third “step back from the ledge” comment today (three different commenters). sorry, this needed to be noted by someone.
i’m with gotsparkly on this debate, btw. like i said way way down below, if you’re going to keep sloan in washington, you should play him once every blue moon. and it’s not like BB hasn’t been sitting juice and erskine. those guys have had nights off. it happens, and a game watching from bird’s eye might even help alzner.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
somehow i lost my train of thought: what i said way way down below is that “team-building” isn’t such a terrible thing, and won’t be some great setback to alzner. GOD’s bullet point list is almost certainly BB’s train of thought, and i’m okay with it. especially for one game in the middle of the regular season.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
What’s odd is that his decision in that regard was almost 180 degrees the opposite of what he’s doing here – Boudreau recognizes the value of getting Neuvirth some NHL experience (even if it is only one game), whereas Theo is. . . Theo.
In this case, there’s value in getting Alzner experience, even if it is only a game, whereas Sloan is. . . Sloan.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Against the worst team in the League.
Obviously as someone mentioned elsewhere in the thread, Carolina’s put up a fight against the Caps twice before – but the Caps are playing better hockey right now, they’re shutting things down, and they have the memory of two close games against the Canes to boost them up.
Plus. the Devils play tonight – have to keep that 1st spot in the East!
There’s just no way Alzner’s going anywhere. I refuse to consider that thought. I’m hoping that we’re working ourselves into a lather over nothing.
Sloan taking 27’s ice away, on the other hand, makes no sense. Don’t mind Sloan getting a game, but not at Karl’s expense.
by mechanicsville on Dec 28, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Sloan has played in 7 more NHL games than Alzner. If that’s Bruce’s logic. . . wow.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
I think it has to do with age, not GP.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but that’s an even dumber reason. If either of those is a factor, Bruce needs to reevaluate his position.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Someone (GMGM) needs to talk to BB about it, I think. I’ve always like Flash, but BB gives him ice time when he doesn’t deserve it.
Same here.
But, then again, BB is getting results. So :shrug:.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t mind the ice time for Flash as much as I mind the way he handles the defense and goalies. At least this year, I’d say Flash has earned more ice time.
Sloan, not so much. He’s been fine but…yeah.
Flash (and to a lesser degree, Semin) are like slot machines – they pay out every now and again, so you just keep pumping in nickels. I get why Bruce keeps going back to the well with them, at least, because they can both score. Plus, if you’re playing Flash instead of Clark/Fehr/Laing/whomever, I get it.
Sloan, though? In favor of the guy who RIGHT NOW is our 3rd-best defenseman and will likely be 2nd on that list before long? I’m totally baffled.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
I’m thinking that if the trade winds are a-blowin’, then the guys who are up for potential trade are the ones who will play against Carolina so as to showcase them.
Unleash the Alex!
good point, but it’s common for players to sit (so they don’t get hurt) if they are to be dealt. Can’t sit everyone though…
Support your local bakery!
That’s silly. You don’t “showcase” a guy for one game. Prior to trades, it’s much more likely that the players involved DON’T play.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Or maybe – MAYBE – Alzner has absolutely nothing to do with this and when BB says “we want to give Sloan playing time”…he means “we want to give Sloan playing time”.
It’s what I’m hanging all my hopes on. Because if GMGM wouldn’t give up Alzner for Pronger, I very much doubt he’s going to Columbus. I don’t care if Rick Nash is coming back the other way.
For the price, though, I don’t think I would. We already have the best player, who also happens to be a wingah, in the world.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I love Alzner. I think he’s a phenomenal player, a phenomenal person, and someone I dream that I get to watch for the next 15 years.
I would trade him for Rick Nash in a heartbeat. A heartbeat.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Okay, yeah, that was a bad example. Change that to “I don’t care who comes back the other way (unless it’s Rick Nash)”.
Yup. They don’t have anyone else I’d give up Alzner for.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
seconded!
only one player in all of the NHL is actually “untouchable” on the trade market.
…well, okay, maybe two players.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Jeff Schultz?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Dec 28, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Everyone has a price. Some are just unrealistically high. The Pensburgh crew did a king’s ransom what-if for Crosby. Might be fun to do the same for AO, while we’re on the NHL 10 Be-A-GM kick here.
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
Columbus has 9.6M in cap space right now, don’t they?
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
I’m not sure, I think they have plenty. But I was thinking in terms of the team giving up an elite player. The Caps could move someone like AO for a king’s ransom, but the cap would prevent them from fully utilizing the assets they would get back.
Meh. It’s Carolina. If they can’t beat Carolina without Alzner, there’s a serious lack of effort from the team, which Alzner’s presence wouldn’t mitigate.
I don’t mind BB getting everyone some rest and everyone some ice time.
Regular season means Radek Bonk.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Normally I’d agree, but Alzner out of anyone could use the NHL playing time.
A man gotta have a code
Hey, he won a Calder Cup last year, no need.
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, there’s 40-some games left in the season, plus the playoffs.
Doesn’t the proverbial “rookie wall” hit around the 50th game? Trying to forestall it?
Hell, I don’t know. I think it’s odd to sit Alzner to tell you the truth.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
This is how I feel. We called the kid up to play in the NHL. Sitting him isn’t achieving anything, except making our team worse in the short and the long run. Great move.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
by D'ohboy on Dec 28, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Easy. Like I said, this may be so that the Caps can showcase all the Dmen they’re willing to trade. Alzner’s in the press box because he’s off the table.
Unleash the Alex!
Guys like Alzner (read, young, cheap, and ready to play top minutes) are the heart, liver and lungs of an organization. No matter what you might get back, you only get rid of your vital organs when you’re truly, truly out of other options. The Caps ain’t that desperate yet.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
That’s exactly what I’m saying. He’s off the table, and they want to show the others.
Unleash the Alex!
i don’t think the two are connected in any way. if they were connected, it would point to an alzner deal…which you’re right, isn’t happening.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
As Becca says, maybe we’re all reading way too much into this and Gabby means that he wants to get Sloan playing time when he says he wants to get Sloan playing time :)
Unleash the Alex!
The coincidence is too juicy not to salivate over, is all.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
Carolina took us to OT at the VC last time we played. A point is a point is a point. Throwing away any game, or not taking opponents seriously is not a good way to succeed in the NHL.
This is a bad move for tonight, and a baffling move long-term given the players involved.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Against the effing Hurricanes, for God’s sake. If there were ever a time to rest someone and play a marginal guy, this is it.
Odd that it’s Alzner sitting in place of, say, Shamo. But what the heck.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
My guess is they play ShaMo pretty consistently because he actually is potential trade bait – maybe not w/ Columbus (although who knows) but my guess is he’s on his way out before the deadline, and he’s missed games w/ injury. Got to showcase him.
I get you. I can buy into it.
My anxiety over Alzner mising a game at this point is very low.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
This is akin to scratching Flash in favor of Laing. Alzner has 40 games of NHL experience right now. If he plays in every remaining game from here out, he’ll have about a full season of NHL games under his belt before the playoffs. Every game is another opportunity to learn something about the NHL game. I’d prefer that he learn these lessons during the regular season, rather than giving ice time to a player who likely won’t be with the team by the end of the month.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Certainly not arguing that – believe me, I’d rather have Alzner out there than just about any other D. But I’m guessing the logic behind not scratching one of the potentially removable parts (Morrisonn, Erskine, Jurcina) is that they need to be showcased to be traded so Alzner can have a permanent spot.
I disagree with the “showcase” argument – these guys have been in the NHL for several years. All of them have played in around 300 NHL games. They are known quantities at this point.
I can sort of see it from the “trade value maximization” perspective, which is to say, a potential trade partner could look at a player like ShaMo, observe that they’d been scratched, then believe that he’s less valuable because he can’t crack the Caps’ top six. But then that team would be Atlanta stupid.
Alzner should have a permanent spot by dint of being one of our four best defenseman. Period. ShaMo and Erskine should fight it out for the scraps. They’ve had their chances.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
by D'ohboy on Dec 28, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Alzner should have a permanent spot by dint of being one of our four best defenseman. Period. ShaMo and Erskine should fight it out for the scraps. They’ve had their chances.
If you keep having to say stuff like this, I’m just going to have to keep on rec’ing it every time you do.
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 28, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that’s hard to argue with. My guess is this boils down to three things -
1) BB hates to have guys sit in the press box for too long (unless their name rhymes w/ Shleminger)
2) As per usual, the AHLers-for-life get some, hopefully subconscious, preferential treatment from a guy who was an AHLer-for-life
3) Alzner gets the short end of the stick because he’s a newbie and hasn’t had to sit yet.
Don’t agree with it, don’t like it…but I’m not the coach. Which is probably a really, really good thing :P
I think #2 is the one that bothers me the most.
And I’m still befuddled as to why he and GMGM stapled Eminger to the bench. This team totally screwed the pooch with that kid’s development. I hope we don’t repeat our mistakes with Alzner.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Your increasingly frequent references to Daryl Strawberry are puzzling.
Eminger stunk, by the way.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
LOL. Me neither.
And I’m with you: strawman arguments are infuriating.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
And I’m with you: strawman arguments are infuriating.
Oh, and so now you hate kittens?!
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
D.J. Strawberry was the man though
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Dec 28, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
From the mixed-up files of Behind the Net
Last year, Eminger put up a better rating with Florida than Bouwmeester, McCabe and Skrastins, despite playing with poorer teammates.
Eminger had/has issues, but he wasn’t as bad as you think.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Poor Emmy. He’s not the second coming of Lidstrom and Alzner’s way better, but he got a rough deal here.
My roommate and I started a “Free Eminger” campaign during that season – of course, it mostly just consisted of us yelling “Free Eminger!” from the couch every time Erskine made a mistake, but still.
To think, if you changed emphasis on that phrase a little bit…
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Emmy was misused. I can’t honestly say I’d rather have Erskine, Juice, Sloan over him.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
I can say I’d rather have Carlson though. In that sense his value was not misused at all.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 28, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
are we underrating “happy locker room” value? in the business world, they call it team-building. makes even more sense when you’re talking about a sports team.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
@Aportzline #CBJ trade talks w/ Caps now confirmed from within CBJ org. Howson is having “serious talks” with another club.
A man gotta have a code
I wonder how much something like that bugs GMGM – having word of trade talks getting leaked to the media by the other side. As we all know, he’s notoriously close to the vest w/ his trades.
I’m sure he sees this for what it is. CBus is trying to extract more concessions. Happens all the time. Ain’t GMGM’s first rodeo.
A man gotta have a code
Oh, I’m sure – certainly not a dealbreaker for GMGM, I wouldn’t think. Just one of those things that I’m betting makes his teeth grind a bit more ;)
That's a Dealbreaker, Ladies
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
by D'ohboy on Dec 28, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Considering I changed my sig to a Tracy Jordan line this morning, this gets a finger rec.
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Hopefully the trade will include franchise rights to Wade Boggs’ Carpet World.
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
This is the worst aspect of twitter and sports news — the “scoop” mentality. I was having a good day when I didn’t know something might go down. Now I’m going to be all anxious to see what it is.
Better get done soon.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, I’m paying more attention to the hot dog talk in the Caps Nation portion of Twitter. I’m getting hungry just reading..
If you've read this far...seek help.
They’re good! Get ’em with bacon and cheese and chili.
Delicious.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
The War Dog
Hilton Head, SC: A giant hot dog, injected with cheese, wrapped in bacon, deep fried, smothered with chili, melted cheese on top, jalapeños and onions on top of that. Mmmmmmm…
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
I don’t know what’s worse…ketchup on a hot dog (unless you’re eight years old) or one of those Chicago “garden on a bun” monstrosities.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Dec 28, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec’d for the ketchup stance.
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Relish and buttered toast = awesome.
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Ketchup relish, and mustard.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
But of course. But sometimes, you have to slum it.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
I’d make it a 2nd easy, and consider making it a first.
I’d give them a first for Hedja in a second.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know Hejda only by name and the vague impression that he’s good. Tyutin I’ve seen two or three times and thought he looked good.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Check out Alan Ryder’s season analysis for last year, when he breaks down the defensive defensemen.
Hejda’s good.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
If CLB wasn’t missing Commodore and Hejda right now, I think this would make a lot of sense.
Support your local bakery!
Hopefully, it doesn’t involve Jizz – that would be messy.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, people…people. Let’s keep this clean, yeah? We’re only talking about a threeway with BJs, lots of backchannel talk – no need to take it to the gutter.
Ahem.
by Becca H on Dec 28, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
They need to hurry up and get this deal done in the next hour and a half. Man City takes the pitch at 12:30pm MT.
A man gotta have a code
They’re playing Wolves; I think you can DVR that.
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Not the way they’ve played down to their level of competition so far this year. Heck its probably 75% chance its a draw knowing City.
A man gotta have a code
They did good on Saturday vs. Stoke, from what I saw of it (not a Citeh fan).
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
I figured they would since it was Mancini’s first game. Most teams, Philly Flyers excluded, play hard for a new coach. What made me most happy about the result was not giving up any goals. My biggest complaint with City under Hughes was the porous defense.
A man gotta have a code
I thought the biggest complaint about them in general was Hughes.
"I may hug people too hard and get lost at malls, but I'm not an idiot."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 28, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
About Semin: I’m quite sure the 1 year deal wasn’t completely planned and the stance they take now is to try and be aggressive. Being a UFA is a very big gamble. Ilya Kovulchuk is looking for 11 million from the market, which he won’t get, but if he isn’t playing like ovetchkin no one will pay him more than the league’s MVP. Being a UFA gives the club the ultimatum though about what to do. Trade.
Its not uncommon for a club to trade a ufa right before his contract goes, and a player they either don’t want or won’t resign. And there are certainly a lot of teams who would want Semin. 30 goal scorer’s don’t grow on trees.
Also trade talk about the goalies are silly. Only person we would trade is Jose, but there’s no point in speeding up his exit.
It will be interesting though to see what kind of a deal Backstrom will fetch. He’s definitely one the organization wants for his entire career. But we’ll see if GMGM takes a page out of the current gm’s handbook and gives backy a dirty deal.
People are stupid, a person is smart. This leads me to believe there must be at least one smart hockey fan in Philly.
been a little out of the loop the past couple of days, but Sammuelson just let it rip. On not being named to Sweden’s Olympic team: “I’ll probably regret saying this but…They can go f**k themselves.”
Fun fact: A popular opinion can still be stupid.
I think that’s funny because Samuelsson has 1 goal in his last 23 games and doesn’t provide much more than goal-scoring (when he is in the groove).
It’s not like dude was lighting it up and got snubbed.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
Gotta love his attitude, though. :)
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
by D'ohboy on Dec 28, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, definitely better than a cliche statement
You come at the king, you best not miss.
by Hooks Orpik on Dec 28, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it was a attitude that made me laugh. also, I can see a certain Canadian perhaps stupidly posting something similar on his twitter should he get snubbed. Probably with some glaring grammatical error.
Fun fact: A popular opinion can still be stupid.
“Fick Tram Canada! I don’t need this, i’m going to sit in my hit tib!”
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Oh boy, this thread is getting positively Bourquian.
ALEX, FЯEE
by EmilyB on Dec 28, 2009 2:09 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You think? I don’t know…it’s a pretty big thread.
…kidding ;) I know what you mean. At least we’re discussing someone worth discussing (imo).
Alzner is a Top 4 guy on this team right now, I don’t think there’s any debate about that.
Normally, if you’re rotating playing time, you do it among the bottom-tier guys. And BB has a history of, er, intriguing decisions when it comes to personnel playing time.
But Alzner is young, and keeping him rested is a laudable goal. So I’m mostly not too stressed about this. If it were a good team, I’d be annoyed.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
I know you’re not the only one making this argument, but the whole, “Let’s rest him because it’s Carolina” argument is silly. With goalies, it makes sense, because they have to be rested on occasion. Alzner is 21. He could play every game this year and not bat an eye. Erskine, ShaMo and Juice have all been nicked up at some point this year, Laing is playing with a plate in his jaw and Clark is Captain Cadaver. You don’t think one of those guys could have used the rest instead?
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
D’oh. I meant to add that all regular season points count the same in the standings. Good teams don’t throw away easy points.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
i need to take a refresher course in smileyconics.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Is there some malfunction with your monitor so that it only displays strawmen? If you every point counts the same, and Alzner is a better player than Sloan, then Alzner should be in the game. Period. This is the NHL, not some house league game. Good teams take every game seriously and put their best players on the ice.
Every night, every team should put its best lineup on the ice, with the following exceptions: injuries, cap issues, putting a goon in as a deterrent, resting players for the playoffs, giving experience to younger players, and goaltenders.
What bin does scratching Alzner fit into? None. It’s dumb, both in the short term, and the long term.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
the problem in my mind falls at GMGM’s desk. BB has 9 defensemen in his locker room. NINE.
from my recollection, everyone not named green (and possibly poti?) has been a healthy scratch at some point this year. schultz has. pothier has. erskine has. shaMo has. juice has. sloan has.
even if alzner is “top 4,” i wouldn’t expect him to be elevated to green’s status this soon. if GMGM doesn’t like the way BB runs things, he needs to make that change and soon.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
You’ve got a point, but I think that scratching guys early on in the season is different than doing it at this stage (and I can’t remember Poti getting a healthy scratch, but God knows he deserved it). For the most part, every season should be a blank slate – guys should have to compete for their ice time like the year before never happened. When BB scratched Schultz, he wasn’t playing terribly well, and Erskine had a strong camp.
FWIW, as of now, I would have a similar reaction if they scratched Schultz to get someone else ice time. Still, you’re right – part of the blame here lies at the feet of the GM. This situation will only get worse once Poti and Pothier are healthy…
Still, you’re right a
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Don’t know what’s up with that last little statement… must have forgotten to delete it.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
that’s okay, you can tell me i’m right a few more times and i won’t complain.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
With goalies, it makes sense, because they have to be rested on occasion.
What’s that you say?
Sincerely,
M. Brodeur
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Alzner is 21. He could play every game this year and not bat an eye.
there is such a thing as a rookie wall.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Alzner is a Top 4 guy on this team right now, I don’t think there’s any debate about that.
Yup. Alzner, Backstrom, Bradley and Clark — that’s your top four. I’d like to see them bring Aucoin or Bourque back up, so that they can move Clark out of the top four. I just don’t think the team can win with Clark (our “C”) in the top four.
I suppose Varlamov is going to spend the rest of his career at or near the bottom. It’s rough, but that’s how it goes.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 28, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Psh! Less than 400 comments? Christ Smith is not impressed.
I am easily satisfied with the very best
Christ, Chris
At least some people made him out to be that way.
I am easily satisfied with the very best
rochelle, rochelle!
one girl’s strange, erotic journey from milan to minsk.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Gah, I have to leave for work. I hope I don't miss anything >.<
This always ends up happening to me!
I am easily satisfied with the very best
I just want to make sure I understand this...
So because of a report out of Columbus and the fact that Boudreau announced that Alzner will be a scratch tonight, we’ve gone into panic mode thinking he might possibly be traded, or worse, simply sat down in favor of a guy who hasn’t played in a awhile.
On the trade front, remember that McPhee wouldn’t give up Alzner as part of a package for Chris Pronger. Why would he give up Alzner for less now?
As for giving him the night off, he’s been skating with John Erskine, not exactly a top pairing guy. There’s something called “easing them in” which you might want to take a look at.
Ted Leonsis Used to Recommend: http://capsnut.blogspot.com/
Everybody Wang Chung......
Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™
so far, the only people screaming panic are the panickers.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa
My original comment had absolutely zero to do with any potential trade. Nada. Zip. When someone else mentioned that scratching Alzner might be an attempt to “showcase” one of the other D, I pointed out that the guy getting scratched is usually the guy getting moved. Still, I think it’s unlikely that he’s traded. If other people took that and ran with it… that’s on them, but I haven’t seen much panic in that regard.
As for giving him the night off, why? What good comes from giving him the night off? The kid is better than the guy taking his spot (as well as several other guys getting sweaters tonight). He needs more NHL experience – almost everyone surrounding the team agrees that he would have spent much of last year and all of this year with the Caps had it not been for salary cap issues. Benching him needlessly seems to be a strange way to make up for lost time. Unless he’s hurt or under-performing, he ought to be in the lineup. Let Sloan bump out Erskine, Laing or Morrisonn.
As for “easing him in,” that doesn’t really seem to be in Bruce’s M.O., given the way he’s handled Varly, Neuvy, Perrault, etc.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Yes, and not easing Perreault in may have been a mistake Bruce is trying to make up for with Alzner…
Bottom line: there are only two D who are unlikely to be healthy scratches at any given time, and their names are Green and Schultz. Everyone else can – and will – be scratched once in a while. It’s a good thing we have as many D as we do right now. It keeps everyone healthy (unless their name is Green or Schultz, in which case, they are on their own to stay that way!)
Yes, and not easing Perreault in may have been a mistake Bruce is trying to make up for with Alzner…
But Perreault was eased in. He played more than 10:30 once in his first five games. Alzner, on the other hand, is top four in TOI, top three in SH TOI, and has played against Vancouver, Buffalo, New Jersey and Colorado. Why sit him against Carolina, a weak team, but play him against strong teams if the goal is to ease him in?
You might as well ask:
Why have internal consistencies to our arguments?
At some point, you just can’t reach a rock.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
almost everyone surrounding the team agrees that he would have spent much of last year and all of this year with the Caps had it not been for salary cap issues.
that doesn’t jive with what i remember.
i remember the caps speaking less positively about alzner as the year went on. i remember alzner being demoted last year because he was slumping, a -9 from december through february. JP pointed out that alzner had the worst giveaway/takeaway ratio and the highest GAON/60 of all Caps Dmen at both 5-on-5 and 4-on-5 during the same period. i remember last summer a degree of denial about the speed of alzner’s development.
how did we get from there to “this isn’t a mighty mite team, alzer is one of our best players bar-none and must play every game” (paraphrased)?
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. Alzner deserved to be demoted last year, and we all noted it (and so did he, for that matter). But the team has also acknowledged that, barring cap issues, he would have played more frequently for the Caps both last year and this year. (I would link to the sources, but there are too many.) In fact, he was called up during the playoffs last year (when the salary cap doesn’t apply), and called up this year literally the instant the Caps cleared Nylander’s salary. Coincidence?
Alzner isn’t perfect. But he’s better than Erskine and ShaMo, and he’s at least got obvious potential to get better, whereas those two are pretty much set where they are.
Also, to clarify, I didn’t say Alzner was one of our best players, I said he was one of our best defensemen. Particularly now, when Poti and Pothier are both injured. I also said that he must play every game, in part because he’s better, but also because he needs the experience. (Technically, if you read my comment, I actually said it’s fine for Bruce to sit him for performance reasons, just not so a 28-year old journeyman can get a game in.)
All your links – while impressive – don’t refute that argument whatsoever. Just because some of us (myself definitely included) think Carlson will be better than Alzner, doesn’t mean that we should play Erskine instead of Alzner. That’s just silly.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
No hedging!
Alzner is perfect.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
In fact, he was called up during the playoffs last year (when the salary cap doesn’t apply), and called up this year literally the instant the Caps cleared Nylander’s salary. Coincidence?
no coincidence: alzner is an NHL-caliber, top 6 Dman on this team. doesn’t mean BB values him on par with green.
All your links – while impressive – don’t refute that argument whatsoever. Just because some of us (myself definitely included) think Carlson will be better than Alzner, doesn’t mean that we should play Erskine instead of Alzner. That’s just silly.
no where in my comment do i mention carlson. in one of the four links i gave you, JP mentioned carlson’s rise relative to alzner…the point i took from it (which he made independent of alzner) is that people in the organization were unhappy with the speed of alzner’s development. the other links also support that alzner is perhaps not an “every day no matter what top 4 Dman,” which i thought was your argument, no? regardless, if BB is sitting him for performance reasons, would he say so in the press? if BB sends alzner down for performance reasons, would he say so in the press?
the links most directly refuted the quoted statement, which was that he would have spent “most of the year last year with the caps” had there not been salary cap issues. i disagree.
oh, and how many playoff games did he play last year again? why is it relevant that he was recalled for the playoffs if he didn’t play? (didn’t play even though schultz was injured…so didn’t play in favor of guys like erskine and sloan.) your point that the organization widely considered him a caps player last year seems to be revisionist history, IMO.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
typo corrected: “the point i took from it (which he made independent of carlson)…”
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
There’s just so much wrong here.
1. Wherein did I compare Green and Alzner? I simply said that, given a choice between scratching the good, young/developing defenseman, and scratching someone else, the choice should be “someone else.” He doesn’t need to be on par with Green, but at the very least, I think he ought to be on par with Schultz/Poti, and he ought to get more playing time, ceteris paribus, than older players because he needs the experience. If he’s going to be part of the healthy scratch merry-go-round, leave him in Hershey where he can play 22 mins/night.
2. Your last link (which you clearly didn’t actually read, given what the linked content said), linked to a comment of JP’s regarding the speed of Carlson’s development relative to Alzner’s, which was part of a larger discussion of the development camp. It had nothing to do with what anyone inside the organization believed about Alzner, whatsoever. You failed at reading comprehension, then took that failure completely out of context, since it wasn’t really saying what you think it said. (Seriously, go back and re-read it.) It was a direct reference to Carlson, albeit a totally irrelevant one, given the context.
3. Did you not google “Alzner+Salary+Cap?” Did you not come up with 45k+ links? If you haven’t noted the various points where Bruce, GMGM and Alzner (not to mention every media outlet covering the Caps) have pointed out that Alzner would have broken camp this year were it not for the cap, you’ve been living under a rock, or you’re just selectively linking to items that support your argument, while ignoring all the other evidence.
4. Regarding him not playing in the playoffs, I think that was the right decision at the time, given his lack of experience. . . WHICH IS WHY I THINK HE OUGHT TO BE PLAYING NOW. Moreover, he later suffered a concussion in Hershey and was unavailable regardless.
5.
the organization widely considered him a caps player last year seems to be revisionist history
Nice try, but no cigar. You paraphrased me into a strawman. Here’s what I really said:
almost everyone surrounding the team agrees that he would have spent much of last year and all of this year with the Caps had it not been for salary cap issues.
Note the difference. I said, “much of last year.” He played in 30 games. Had the Caps had the space, and had Pothier not returned unexpectedly, I think it’s easy to see him playing in around 40-60 games. Which would have been much of the year. As it was, he still played in almost 40% of the team’s games. Sounds like much of the season to me. I’ve already covered the fact that the team stated publicly that he would have broken camp with the Caps if they’d had the cap space, so there’s no need to re-hash that.
Got any other ludicrous strawmen to argue against, or irrelevant comments to link to?
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
dammit you’re going to make me reply this whole friggin thing, and the point (which DOES stand) was simply that you’re statement about alzner’s place on the caps last year—even if it was a throwaway statement—was false.
1) my point was that BB rotates every defenseman not named green. you agreed with that premise. below you said that alzner should not be treated like “just one of the guys” on defense, the same way green is not treated like just one of the guys on defense. your comparison.
2) GIVE ME A BREAK. are you serious with that reading?
JP’s comment:
Here’s my pop psych take on the overflowing Carlson love – one part deserved praise, one part compensation/denial about the speed at which Alzner is developing.
the comment is about carlson’s development RELATIVE to alzner (like i said). the point i took from it is that alzner was not developing at the speed many had expected. it has absolute bearing on alzner and how people were feeling about him at the time.
5) go ahead, define “much of last year” for me. please. the caps gave him a chance last year and moved him back to the farm for reasons other than the salary cap, as the links testified. there is no strawman there…apologies for daring to paraphrase your semantics.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
1) Schultz hasn’t been a healthy scratch since Oct. 13th. After a shaky camp, the guy has locked down a spot on D. Likewise for Poti. Boudreau doesn’t rotate his D. He rotates his bottom 4 (now 3), and leaves the top guys alone. I think Alzner deserves to be in with this group, both because of talent level, and because he’s young and could use the experience. Scratching Erskine/ShaMo/Sloan doesn’t hurt us down the road.
2) Scroll up and down. What do you think denial means in that sentence, given the context? I take it to mean: “Carlson’s getting love because everyone (wrongly) thought Alzner was going to dominate the NHL last year, but didn’t, so now they’re hating on him by irrationally overinflating Carlson.” This statement, to me, does not carry a negative comment about Alzner, but rather is a comment about the people overinflating Carlson. This view is supported by the “pop psychology” comment, and the comments both above and below J.P.’s comment.
Regardless of interpretation, the comment is comparing Alzner and Carlson. I’m not. I’m comparing Alzner with Erskine, Sloan, ShaMo and, to a lesser degree, Laing. Carlson is, for the time being, irrelevant to this conversation, hence, this line of argument is a strawman. You’re saying that a Lamborghini isn’t as fast as a Ferrari, and I’m arguing that I’d still rather have the Lamborghini than the Volkswagen. Alzner is better than Erskine, Sloan, ShaMo and Laing. Or do you disagree?
3) Yes, the Caps did send Alzner down for reasons other than the salary cap. I acknowledge this. But you can’t deny that after playing 30 games, the Caps definitely saw him as a key part of the organization, even in the short run (FWIW, he played more games than every other Hershey call-up, including Sloan, during our rash of injuries last year). He played “much of the year” with the Caps, and he might have played even more were it not for his salary. Even upon cutting him from training camp, GMGM stated that it was hard, but that he needed more development. . .
. . . Which is exactly my point. The whole reason you keep Alzner down in Hershey, even if he’s better than a guy like Sloan, is so he can skate 22 mins a night and get special teams work. Calling him up to Washington to put him in the healthy scratch rotation is detrimental, both to the team in the short run, and to the franchise over the long haul, because you’re scratching the superior player, and you’re stunting his growth. If he’s going to sit, send him down to Hershey where he can play.
3) All your negative links are from last season. He was 20 last season, and in his first professional season. Is it perhaps possible that he’s gotten a little better since turning 21? Funny how you don’t dispute the idea that he’d have been here the whole year this year, which to me is much more important given that we’re discussing this year. I think re-hashing last year as an argument for benching him this year is pretty silly, particularly given the fact that the kid was 20.
At the end of the day, the kid played in almost 40% of the Caps’ games last year, and might have played in more. You don’t dispute this. Semantics aside, I’d call 40% (with the possibility of more) much of the season, particularly given that he played more than any other Hershey call-up. It speaks to the fact that the organization saw him as someone they could call on to log minutes with the parent club, but that they didn’t want to stunt his growth by having him skate third-pairing minutes here. Which is precisely my point, and has been since the beginning.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
yes, we (still) interpret the comment differently. i think you’re taking it a step too far by saying that alzner’s lack of “domination” was the disappointment. had he been brought up earlier, i don’t see any evidence that he wouldn’t have similarly flamed out and been sent back down. hence (let me make sure i get this right): “he would have spent much of last year and all of this year with the Caps had it not been for salary cap issues” is a leap in logic i don’t think you can make.
period. that was the only point i used the links to refute. any strawman was unintended, and i don’t think there is any contradiction between all of those stats and links and the point that salary cap wasn’t the only factor at play.
the other side of the argument where i disagree with you concerns BB’s rotation and the logic behind it. the “healthy scratch rotation” you mention has seen alzner demoted to healthy scratch….once. 1 time in 12 games. yes, for his development, i’d rather see alzner play 11 out of every 12 games with the caps than 12 out of every 12 games with the bears. you wouldn’t? did i just create another strawman, or am i misinterpreting you? “if he’s going to sit, send him down to hershey where he can play.” i swear i just gave three reads to what you wrote.
as to your #3, i again was only pointing out the mistake in your argument re: last year. i wasn’t making any more of it than that. we don’t have a lot of evidence about how BB evaluates alzner in comparison to the other top defenders on this team this year, though. and now we have a healthy scratch, showing he doesn’t put him in the same category as his unbenchables (the guys you mentioned). but you’ve taken it in a whole different direction….almost like you are creating a strawman to beat the crap out of or something.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not the only one who thinks the salary cap affected Alzner’s time with the Caps last year.
And I wasn’t creating a strawman at all. You cited a bunch of links from last year, then said,
how did we get from there to "this isn’t a mighty mite team, alzer is one of our best players bar-none and must play every game
Which is a straw-man butchering of my original argument, which was, don’t scratch Karl to be “fair” to Sloan. Karl is better than Sloan, and his development is more important than Sloan’s happiness. I never said they couldn’t scratch Karl. I never said they shouldn’t play Sloan. I never called Alzner,
one of our best players bar-none
I said that scratching one of our better players (instead of a guy like Erskine) just to be “fair” to Sloan, is stupid.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
so this argument has been about coachspeak all this time? what is BB going to say besides “i’m trying to be fair to sloan?” by choosing alzner he is clearly putting him alongside the ferris wheel of other rotating defenseman not named green, poti (and if you insist, schultz….although i wonder about his fate if poti and pothier were both healthy right now).
i take away the “bar-none” comment from my original post…i didn’t realize that’s what antagonized you. but i thought you were saying he’s not to be benched ever, not with the other options on this team. you acknowledged that sloan needs a game here or there if you’re going to keep him on the roster (finger pointed at GMGM again). i view alzner as a better player on a given night than juice who’s a better player on a given night than shaMo who’s a better player on a given night than erskine who’s a better player on a given night than sloan. as long as the caps rotate the bottom guys out more often than the top guys, okay by me. but they’ve all been rotated.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
wait, and just because i’m honestly interested in your take on the issue:
would you prefer alzner to play 12 out of 12 games in the AHL rather than 11 out of 12 games in the NHL? because that’s what this quote led me to believe:
if he’s going to sit, send him down to hershey where he can play.
i don’t think some time upstairs every 12-15 games is going to stunt his development at all, and certainly not the way relegating him to hershey would.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Slight hyberbole involved, but if he’s skating 16-18 minutes and sitting once every 10-15 games, that also implies that he’s not getting special teams minutes, so he’s probably better off in Hershey at that point, which is partly what happened last year. However, he’s playing around 17-20/night and playing on the PK, which makes it all the more confusing that he’s getting scratched.
I want Alzner to get experience now, because I think he’ll be in our top-6 during the playoffs. Every game counts in this regard. Everything else means bupkis to me. Erskine should be our #7. Juice should have been our #6, but we kept ShaMo. Oh well, it probably won’t matter when we pick up another D-man in trade.
Bruce can be “fair” all he wants, but I just want him to do it with the guys who deserve it. Tonight, Erskine has been effing brutal and poor Karl’s on the ice with him. It’s killing his +/-.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
and dude, i restated your argument three times.
1)
alzner is perhaps not an "every day no matter what top 4 Dman," which i thought was your argument, no?
did i mess that up? is that a strawman? because my impression is that you think he’s an everyday player, and a top 4. did i make a mistake?
2)
the links most directly refuted the quoted statement, which was that he would have spent "most of the year last year with the caps" had there not been salary cap issues. i disagree.
how about there? are you unhappy that i used “most” instead of “much”? i’m typing quickly, please forgive.
the quote you took was the third time i paraphrased your argument in the course of one comment. they all point to the same thing, which is that i don’t think the salary cap issues were keeping alzner from the bigs, not for “most” of the year, not for “much” of the year, not….period. it’s possible they would have had him up sooner (and that’s what BB’s comments indicated), but he wasn’t holding his own, he got sent back to the AHL, and he never played again.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
1) This isn’t quite my argument. My argument is that Alzner is demonstrably better than Erskine, ShaMo or Sloan. If those guys wanted to play regularly, they should have played better when they had ample opportunity earlier in the year.
Moreover, not only is Alzner better than these three, but he’s younger and needs to be on the ice in order to develop. If the Caps are going to keep him in Washington, they have to play him. Sitting does him no good.
When Poti and Pothier return, I think you could have a healthy debate about whether Alzner is, in fact, better than one or both of them. But for now, with them out, he’s solidly in the top-four and, given his developmental status, should be given as much playing time as possible.
2) Again, you’re just coming back about last year. Whatever. Fine. Even if I admit that you’re totally right about last year and Alzner wasn’t a victim of the salary cap (which you aren’t, more below), it still says nothing about this year, which is much more relevant, seeing as it’s the year we’re talking about. You’re arguing a throwaway line that’s an insignificant part of a larger argument.
If Alzner wasn’t a salary cap victim in 08-09, how do you explain this? An entire post dedicated to “Keeping King Karl” in light of the salary cap. How odd. . .
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
replied to this comment below, to condense things a bit (and since we’re repeating ourselves). just so you know, i never went nuts about your initial post. obviously i’d like to see alzner play as much as possible, and i’d like to seem him play more than sloan, erskine, shaMo. but for me, that doesn’t mean he should never ever be a healthy scratch.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
I also don’t mind him being a healthy scratch, and I said as much in the original post – I just don’t think it makes sense to scratch him to be “fair” to Sloan, when we’ve got Erskine, ShaMo and Laing in the lineup.
Anyhow, I felt like my argument was getting twisted, and my caveats were getting lost in the shuffle, so I was getting butthurt. Sorry if I was snippy.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
me too (sorry about the snipes, that is). i’m honored to have participated in a d’ohboy epic exchange.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
As the Irish said after Whacking Day...
’twas all in good fun. :)
I think I was probably irritated because I think this is part of a larger pattern where Bruce is concerned with regard to “pet” players and his predilection for AHL players. I think Bruce has “his” guys (Flash, Stecks, Laich, Laing, GREEN, and Erskine – and maybe Sloan), and these guys get somewhat preferential treatment.
Anyhow, mad respect. Where are you staying on Waikiki? I was out there a couple of months ago – stayed at the Outrigger Reef on the Beach.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
shut UP! (said in elaine voice.) sitting in my room at the outrigger reef right now. solid hotel all around. but i went to high school here, so i’m doing my best to leave waikiki and see the rest of the island as much as possible this week. tomorrow: the world’s largest human maze, on the dole plantation.
family reunion of sorts.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 29, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
As for giving him the night off, he’s been skating with John Erskine, not exactly a top pairing guy. There’s something called "easing them in" which you might want to take a look at.
EXACTLY. THANK you.
Except. . . you’re both wrong. Bruce doesn’t “ease guys in.” In fact, he does exactly the opposite. In both of Karl’s first games back from the AHL (Nov. 25th and Dec. 15th), he played over 20 minutes. In his first two games last year, he played 21 and 23 minutes respectively.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Throw that Colorado game out.
We played the third period with Brooks Laich skating on the blueline because of injuries and players in the Penalty Box.
Ted Leonsis Used to Recommend: http://capsnut.blogspot.com/
Everybody Wang Chung......
Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™
True, but Alzner’s still getting good ice time against good teams, and he’s scratched tonight against a bad one.
Point taken but did you notice the next two opponents?
Ted Leonsis Used to Recommend: http://capsnut.blogspot.com/
Everybody Wang Chung......
Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™
Tonight. In San Jose on Wednesday in L.A. on Saturday. Not pushovers by any stretch.
Ted Leonsis Used to Recommend: http://capsnut.blogspot.com/
Everybody Wang Chung......
Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™
Right, but both also non-conference games. . .
My point is, for short-term success, the Caps should ice the best team possible every night. For long-term success, they need to be getting younger players like Alzner NHL experience, particularly given that salary cap issues delayed his NHL arrival.
In the medium-term, if Bruce believes that keeping guys like Sloan fresh is important (and I agree), then bench one of the older, less talented guys, such as Erskine.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Ok. So how about the other four? There’s still no proof that Boudreau planned to “ease” Alzner in. He hasn’t done it before.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
And?
Look, Boudreau has said that he doesn’t like players sitting for great lengths of time. He’s also used it in the past to keep guys hungry too. We’re making a mountain out of a molehill here.
Ted Leonsis Used to Recommend: http://capsnut.blogspot.com/
Everybody Wang Chung......
Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™
I would say that you guys are the ones “making the mountain.” My original comment said:
Sloan needs to get on the ice from time to time if he’s going to be effective when we need him
I went on to say that Alzner shouldn’t be the one getting scratched. The arguments I’ve heard in response thus far have been:
A) Because it’s his turn,
B) Because it’s Carolina, and
C) Because Bruce is easing him in.
I, and some other folks on here, find all three of these arguments less than convincing, for reasons we’ve outlined above in great detail. Moreover, given that this is part of a pattern of strange roster decisions by Boudreau, I don’t think a little bit of criticism isn’t warranted. The guy does make mistakes after all.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
D) in the interest of team-building
E) in keeping with bruce’s mode of operation
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
D) could just as easily be accomplished by scratching someone else – don’t forget that I’m not opposed to getting Sloan playing time
E) is exactly what I was critiquing in the first place. It’s not an argument, it’s an acknowledgment.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
D) “alzner is just another one of the guys”…absolutely team-building.
E) bruce’s MO is working out pretty well…the caps’ team defense numbers are astoundingly good…he’s got an overcrowded locker room, and all players are getting turns taking breathers. he’s not singling out alzner, and to this point alzner had avoided the scratch while other players (apparently tradeable assets) had not.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
D) Right. Just like Ovie, Backis, Semin, Green, etc. are “just one of the guys.” It’s a ludicrous argument. Alzner has paid his dues on the AHL-NHL rollercoaster. He ought to know that he’s not entitled to anything at this point, and until he demonstrates such behavior, benching him isn’t warranted.
E) While the Caps are 11th in GA/G, they’re still 19th in the PK. There’s room for improvement. Scratching Alzner in favor of Erskine/ShaMo/Sloan doesn’t help.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
i missed the memo that alzner was on par with AO, backstrom, semin and green.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
The point is that there’s no such thing as “just one of the guys;” at the NHL level, the game ought to be a pure meritocracy unless a player is demonstrating an attitude problem that affects the discipline of the team. Alzner has not demonstrated such an attitude problem. From all accounts, it’s quite the opposite.
(Anyhow, purely on draft position, clearly the organization thinks (or thought) that Alzner was on the same level as Green, Backis, Semin and Ovie. But that’s neither here nor there.)
Like I said in my original comment, if Bruce wants to bench him for reasons of attitude or quality of play, fine. Benching him because “it’s his turn” is ludicrous. The kid needs to play.
I’m not really sure what part of my argument you’re disagreeing with. Let’s try this out:
1) Do you agree that teams should put their best team on the ice at all times (within reason)?
2) Do you agree that Alzner is better than ShaMo/Erskine/Sloan/Laing?
3) Do you think that younger players need to get consistent ice time, otherwise they’re better served playing in the AHL?
4) Do you think that Alzner has only ever demonstrated an exemplary attitude and work ethic?
If you agree with all four of these statements, I can’t understand why you’d disagree with the logical conclusion that it’s silly to scratch Alzner when you could just as easily scratch any one of a handful of journeymen players.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
If you agree with all four of these statements, I can’t understand why you’d disagree with the logical conclusion that it’s silly to scratch Alzner when you could just as easily scratch any one of a handful of journeymen players.
continuity and locker room. that’s what i’ve said all along. i took umbrage with your remark that alzner would’ve been with the caps most of last year had it not been for the salary cap, because that was conjecture on your part, and there is evidence that wouldn’t have happened. otherwise, i won’t be up in arms about an alzner healthy scratch until it becomes a pattern.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
btw, under your logic tree, i’m not happy if anyone besides sloan and erskine is wearing a suit on any given night (and to piggy bag on your “within reason” qualifier, i think an alzner health scratch is as much within reason as a juice, shaMo, schultz, pothier scratch). but the season is played over more than one game, and the coach is presumably considering locker room cohesion, personality issues, things that are tough to quantify.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
I think the bottom three are clearly Sloan, Erskine and ShaMo. Do you disagree?
The early-season scratches were different – it was before the players had established themselves this year. As I noted below, Schultz hasn’t been scratched since early October. As I also noted, a Schultz scratch would irritate me almost as much, since he’s still a “developing” player. The age of the player involved is key here.
I think the locker room issue is possible, but honestly, Erskine and Sloan know the score – they’re marginal NHL-ers. Alzner is a top-5 pick. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out who’s going to play. ShaMo is another story, likely. But screw him. He had his chance.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
I think the bottom three are clearly Sloan, Erskine and ShaMo. Do you disagree?
no, i don’t disagree. i disagreed with your comment about the cap as the factor that kept alzner out for “much of last year” (see below), and i’m not ready to condemn BB for the decision to sit alzner one game.
the post you linked above by JP was a good one…thorough, and i especially liked his point about alzner’s impact on jurcina. but it was made on jan 7th. the numbers i quoted to you were from “december through february.” maybe he hit that rookie wall that we talked about? maybe BB doesn’t want him to hit it again?
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
(Anyhow, purely on draft position, clearly the organization thinks (or thought) that Alzner was on the same level as Green, Backis, Semin and Ovie. But that’s neither here nor there.)
i don’t think you can say that, since you’re not considering relative strengths of the different drafts, nor the time that has passed between draft day and today.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
before you jump on me for building a strawman:
“clearly the organization thinks” =
the time that has passed between draft day and today
“or thought” =
relative strengths of the different drafts
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
According to Bob McKenzie’s twitter it’s Juice to Columbus, more details coming.
by BradleyFightingVehicle on Dec 28, 2009 3:41 PM EST reply actions
McKenzie’s had no updates and Friedman says he’s “[t]rying to figure out [what Columbus] gave up.”
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 28, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
McKenzie:
Jurcina and Chris Clark from Washington to Columbus for Jason Chimera. Done deal.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 28, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
The curse of the Caps Captaincy Continues….
Ted Leonsis Used to Recommend: http://capsnut.blogspot.com/
Everybody Wang Chung......
Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™
Chimera:
2009-2010 ONE-WAY $1,875,000 $1,875,000 — $1,875,000
Clark:
2009-2010 ONE-WAY $2,650,000 $2,650,000 — $2,633,333
Jurcina:
2009-2010 ONE-WAY $1,375,000 $1,375,000 — $1,375,000
Difference – $2,133,333
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
Ah, that’s a nice bonus.
I have conflicting feelings about the trade as a whole — emotions may be clouding my judgement…
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 28, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Holy mother of mercy! That’s big! If Friedman is right and Clarkie is gone, who gets the C?
by BradleyFightingVehicle on Dec 28, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
OVECHKIN!
but Clark gone? That’d be a sad move.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 28, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Very sad, especially for Clark, he must feel like he just got punched in the stomach.
by BradleyFightingVehicle on Dec 28, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I’d be really sad for Clark if this is true… :-(
Hopefully, they will give the C to Laich, if it is… he deserves it.
“hopefully”? how does he deserve it any more or any less than AO?
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
They elevate a guy who wasn’t even deemed, for whatever reason, to be worthy of being in the rotation for an “A” with four other players?
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 28, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
You’re saying who you want to be C
Hopefully, they will give the C to Laich
Some are saying this and others are saying who they think will get it regardless of what one may want.
We will have polls and arguments and all kinds of fun til a C is actually named tho
ovechkin turned down the C his second year in the league, before his two hart trophies, his two playoff appearances, his improvement in english, etc., etc.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Laich is nice, but you’re hard pressed to find a reason not to give it to #8.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
I can think of a really good one: he has enough on his plate.
Also, if he doesn’t want it, I wouldn’t force it on him.
If he doesn’t want it? You’re kidding, right?
by mechanicsville on Dec 28, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
He passed it up once.
Ted Leonsis Used to Recommend: http://capsnut.blogspot.com/
Everybody Wang Chung......
Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™
Yeah, but that was when he was much younger, couldn’t speak English even as well as he does now, and it was generally clear that he wasn’t ready.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 28, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Clark gets to go to another rebuild. I feel for the guy. Gets to a Game 7 in an SCF, goes to a team that’s rebuilding, plays the good soldier playing every role imaginable, plays through and around injuries, sees his PT reduced as the team grows around him, then gets sent off to an underachieving team that is probably a couple of years away from competing in a tough division.
If you've read this far...seek help.
Friedman: Make Knuble captain
I can’t see the logic in this. Wasn’t Yzerman captain at 18 or 19? This isn’t Knuble’s team.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Same reason Blake is Captain of SJS, bide time until the younger guys are ready.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
awesome, one under-producing captain for another..
(thought i was kidding when i first wrote it, but not really.)
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 28, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
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