Wednesday Caps Clips: Rocky Mountain Rout
by J.P. on Dec 16, 2009 6:42 AM EST
in Caps Clips
598 comments
Your savory breakfast links:
- Recaps and other assorted musings on last night's win from Corey (blog, article), Tarik (blog, article), Vogs, Joe B., CSN Washington, WashEx, Ed Frankovic, Fight for Old DC, Denver Post (gamer and blog) and Mile High Hockey (rather succinct).
- On the David Koci hit. [FanHouse]
- Seems a good time to revisit this post on team toughness from a few weeks back.
- At some point you start to wonder whether sheer ignorance will cost Semyon Varlamov Calder votes. [FanHouse]
- Some more new power rankings are out, with the Caps up one to third at CBC.
- Another interesting look at the crapshoot that is drafting goalies. [TSN]
- Stephen Peat vs. P.J. Stock: your NHL fight of the decade. [Puck Daddy]
- A rare Michael Nylander AHL rookie card unearthed. [FanPost]
- These third jersey mock-ups look awful to me. I mean, an "A" on the #28 sweater? Ewww. [Rock The Red.net]
- John Erskine has a new nickname (and no, it's not Fourskine). [Fight For Old DC]
- Maybe no one will win the Cup this year. [Orland Kurtenblog]
- If Cody Eakin ends up not making Team Canada this winter, there's still a chance (gasp!) that he might become a decent hockey player. [CBC]
- Another "Gabby" review. [Sky Sports]
- Speaking of Gabby, per the HHoF, on this date back in 1977, "Bruce Boudreau scored the only hat trick of his NHL career, and Borje Salming added five assists as the Toronto Maple Leafs won 8-5 against the North Stars, at Minnesota."
- Finally, again per the HHoF, on this date back in 2003, "Washington rookie Maxim Ouellet, playiing in his first NHL game in three seasons, made 37 saves to record his first career shutout, and Robert Lang scored twice and added two assists as the Capitals won 5-0 against the Thrashers at Atlanta." And by "first," they mean "only."
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Erskine’s new nickname + Mile High Hockey’s poetic recap. Coincidence?
I could have been equipment manager, but nooooo!
1 assist and a +3, fights a big guy for boarding Mike Green. Waive him now.
But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
Lost in Erskine’s thuglife-esque line was the third period work of 3 (stupid DoG aside), 27 and 55, all of whom skated a ton in altitude.
"After the Cold War, the AK-47 became Russia's biggest export. After that came vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists (and a couple good hockey players)."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 16, 2009 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
I believe Alzner said “now I know what Mike Green feels like playing all those minutes.”
Also, Poti played 11 of the 18 minutes in the 3rd for which he wasn’t in the box.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
And he didn’t cost the Caps the game, huh..
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I didn’t see a single blown clearing attempt on the PK. Might have been one at even strength, but we’re not looking for those.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
So where is the Tom Poti PK Clearing Attempt Tracker? I expect it to be posted soon.
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Hasn’t been a problem this year, not gonna sweat it yet.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
It's a failed clear that hurts the team!
He sucks!
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Fuck that! Some asshole punched me in the head 3 times and I didn’t retaliate and still got a matching MINOR! Fuck that. But he was their best player and we were defending a 2 goal lead so everyone on the team complimented me for my “good PIM.” Fuck that. If I knew I was getting 2 I would have sucker punched that guy in his fucking chin. Asshole.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I scored a SHG among my customary two or three points per game on Monday. But your PIMs, yeah.. those are.. big contribution.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
C league right? Maybe I’ll come slum it and teach you a thing or two.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, you should be thinking the other way: “I should recruit this donkey.”
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Ha. I’m not in a position of power to recruit. Plus, I don’t need the job competition.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
There was at least one awful one on an early PK. But he was a trooper last night, for sure.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Better yet, sign him to a long-term extension based on one statistically solid game.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Better yet, sign him to a long-term extension based on one statisticallysolidlucky game.
Is better now.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Sigh.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Can’t think of hot pockets without thinking of Jim Gaffigan.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
I take it you already looked at the “Fight for Old DC” link above. That picture is hilarious.
by mechanicsville on Dec 16, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Nice. I hadn’t checked that link. But MMH also had a hot pocket comment in their recap so I was wondering if I missed something from the GDTs. Serves me right for not doing the reading.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
There’s content above the comments?
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Dec 16, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
At MHH Liles = hot pocket.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 16, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
A little over the top, yes? He’s a solid, reliable #5 or #6 on this team. He’s on the books for one more year at $1.25M and that’s just about right with the talent coming up from Hershey.
But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
He’s asolid, reliable#5 or #6#7 on this team, with the talent coming up from Hershey.
A little copy-editing.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
by D'ohboy on Dec 16, 2009 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, I might be able to buy this. #5 or #6? No way. Reliable? Nyet.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Wow, +11 gets you nothing here. Good thing BB thinks otherwise.
But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
Wow, +11 gets you nothing here.
Plus minus is a pretty mediocre stat, and it really isn’t indicative of reliability/consistency. Semin led the team in +/- last year, and I don’t think anyone would call him consistent.
Good thing BB thinks otherwise.
Boudreau plays Erskine less than any other defenseman, doesn’t play him with a man down very often, and carefully manages his opponents. I’m not sure Boudreau sees him as a 5-6 in the NHL. Seven who can play regularly, sure. A sixth, maybe. But anything more than that…I haven’t seen any indication Boudreau feels that way, and it’s not like the Capitals have a stable of stud defensemen taking away his ice time.
by David M. Getz on Dec 16, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Plus minus is a pretty mediocre stat, and it really isn’t indicative of reliability/consistency.
Yet, this is the first stat most Jeff Schultz fans point to. (Oh snap.)
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
It gains validity over time, in my opinion. But I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that most people who come up with "Schultz sucks!!!!1 don’t want to hear about any statistics beyond what’s in a standard stat line.
by David M. Getz on Dec 16, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
A quick question – do you actually, like, watch the games? Because it’s fairly clear from watching that Erskine just shouldn’t be an NHL regular.
Yes, Erskine is +11. In 2006-2007, he was -13 in only 29 games played, which is impressive, given that the worst minus rating on the team that year was Zubrus at -16, and he played in twice as many games.
What’s the difference here? In 2006-2007, the Caps sucked and frequently got outscored by their opponent. In 2009-10 (thus far) not so much. I’ll give you a guess as to how much marginal difference Erskine has made between the 06-07 and 09-10 squad. The guy happens to be on the ice when we score – that’s it. He is +11 and only has 3 assists. How do you think that happens? Does he have some magical skill that allows him to will things into happening?
If that doesn’t convince you: Semin was +25 last year and Aucoin was +5. Steckel was +2 and Laich was -1. If you were killing a penalty in the last minute of a playoff game, which pair would you want on the ice?
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
depends. are we losing?
I might stick Sascha out there in place of Laich (I’m counting on Stecks to do the FO.) Jizz can hold his own on the PK. Not my first choice on the PK by all the means, but compared to Laich he’s not a bad alternative.
(fwiw, I completely agree with you that +/- is a stupidly misleading stat.)
“Because it’s fairly clear from watching that Erskine just shouldn’t be an NHL regular.”
Quick, alert BB and GMGM, they must not be watching!
Just shoot me.
Erskine has been in this league for the better part of 9 seasons, and he’s never played more than 52 games for either the Stars, Isles or Caps. In the case of both the Isles and Caps, some of those years were pretty barren talent-wise. Now I know what you’re going to say: Erskine has been injured a lot. And you’d be right. But he’s also a healthy scratch a lot, because the people running the franchises that he plays for have realized that he’s not an everyday NHL defenseman. GMGM and Boudreau both know this.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
And, IMO, injuries matter. Ask the Flyers about Simone Gagne.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
Plus/minus doesn’t factor penalty minutes, so that’s a moot point. The answer, however, is I’d put Semin and Steckel out there, provided Semin wasn’t the guy in the box.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
I think you’re misunderstanding the meaning of “moot,” since what I said had nothing to do with taking penalties. The example was meant to demonstrate how silly it is to use +/- as a statistic denoting defensive capability, since the Caps’ best +/- players tend to be offensive players such as Ovie and Semin.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
You missed my point entirely.
Semin was +25 last year and Aucoin was +5. Steckel was +2 and Laich was -1. If you were killing a penalty in the last minute of a playoff game, which pair would you want on the ice?
Playing on the PK never adversely affects your plus minus, so why should we use it to determine who should be out there on a penalty kill? Irrelevant is the term I was looking for.
Regardless, Erskine is not an offensive dynamo, nor is he out there to penalty kill, so that’s a silly argument. At best for the team, his job is to be a 6/7 D-man, and now that Alzner is up for good, he should be. If injuries hadn’t taken Mo out of the game, he’s not even paired with Green.
+/- isn’t a great stat, but it’s not one you can completely toss out of the window. I look at it as “Lucky, good, or for whatever reason, good or bad things happen with this guy on the ice.”
If Erskine is +11, that means something more than “he’s out there with good players.” You don’t like the guy, I get it.
It’s fairly clear, from my watching, that Erskine should not be out against top line talent, but against third and fourth liners (And Sean Avery) he’s more than capable.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
And you missed mine entirely. At what point in a game would you put our your best defensive players, the guys you trust to keep the puck out of the net come hell or high water? During a penalty kill. How could you make that more extreme? Have it be in the last minute of a playoff game. . .
I was setting up a silly and extreme example in order to prove a point, namely that +/- isn’t really a defensive statistic. If it were, you’d want Ovie, Schultz, BMo and Green (Caps top four in +/-) out there during the most defensively demanding point in the game. While you could certainly do worse than that foursome, you could also do a lot better if you just ignore +/-.
I’ll use another, historical example. Harry Sinden used to compare Bobby Orr and Ray Bourque by saying that he’d put Orr out if he were down by a goal in the last minute and Bourque out if he were up by a goal in the last minute – with the implication being that Orr was more offensively capable and Bourque was more defensively capable. Orr’s career +/- was +597!!! (Holy Living Hell!!!) Bourque’s +528 (in 10 more seasons) was somewhat lame by comparison.
What’s my point? Plus/minus by itself is an unbelievably misleading statistic, particularly when people use it as a proxy for defensive responsibility, as the person above has been doing with regard to Erskine. A high plus/minus can mean that a player’s just so good offensively that his pluses outweigh his minuses. Or it can mean that a player never plays against the opposition’s best players. Or, in the case of Erskine, it can mean that a guy is just plain lucky to be on the ice when his teammates score, and his teammates happen to score a lot.
But perhaps I’m being too theoretical, so I’ll give you a good, and recent concrete example. In 2006-2007, Brian Campbell of the Buffalo Sabres scored 6 goals had 42 assists was +28. In 2005-2006, he had 12 goals and 32 assists, yet was a minus 14. Both seasons, he put up around 45 points, and yet there’s a 42 point swing in his plus/minus. Why? Here’s why: in 2005-6, the Sabres were collectively an even team, whereas in 2006-7, they were plus 61. Removing 2006-7, Campbell is -13 on his career. Given that data, and what you’ve seen of Brian Campbell when he plays, which do you think is more likely:
A) Brian Campbell is a defensively responsible player who happened to have one bad year;
B) Brian Campbell is a horrible defensive player who “stepped it up” for one year;
C) Brian Campbell has always been roughly the same player – a talented offensive defenseman who’s prone to defensive lapses and ill-timed turnovers, but in 2006-7, the team around him was so good that it inflated his +/-;
D) Plus/minus is a bogus stat in isolation;
E) I’m grumpy and belligerent today; or
F) C through E.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
As a guy that just took a multiple choice test of A-M answers
All I have to say is fuck you.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
As a guy who’s wicked grumpy for some reason (probably because today is my rest day off the bike, and with no exercise, I get aggro), I have this to say:
Video definitely NSFW.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
If any of us are still at work, it’s time to go home.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 16, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
that Erskine link is pretty funny. I can get behind the new nickname.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Dec 16, 2009 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
I think I woke up my dad ‘cause I was laughing so hard at the video. I don’t think I’ll ever look at Erskine without having to sing the Hot Pockets jingle in my head now.
♫ Hot Pockets~ ♫
If baseball has the Hot Corner, hockey can have a Hot Pocket.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 16, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
From Mile High Hockey
DVR’d it. Saw the box score. FFWD to Koci incident. Smile. FFWD to Galliardi Goal. Delete.
Can’t tell if it’s MG52 hate or Koci love.
But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
either way its ridiculous.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Dec 16, 2009 7:43 AM EST up reply actions
It’s one of the few good points in the game for the Avs fans, honestly. But no, there’s no love for Koci on there.
Unleash the Alex!
Boudreau is so wrong about Koci — dude has TWO goals in six years.
by patred48 on Dec 16, 2009 8:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thats just because it is news. I would do the same thing only stopping for all of the goals that Caps scored.
"I think the relentless negative coverage in The Washington Post is a real difference from previous years," Redskins general counsel David Donovan said. "But in terms of the way our actual fans are behaving, we don't see any difference."
It’s worth adding that the commenter in question, “Pinchy the Lobster”, has this as a sig:
I am so clever that sometimes I don’t understand a single word of what I am saying.
I wouldn’t think too hard about this stupid comment. The Mile High Hosts including Mike are far more representative, I think.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 16, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
One stupider commentor says nothing about the quality of the blog on which s/he’s commenting. At least, I sure as hell hope not.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 16, 2009 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
agreed. hotdog88gt, you can’t post that quote without attributing it to a commenter. i would never have bothered to click through and assumed the blog author/editor had written it.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 16, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
I spent the 2nd and third period between here and MHH, and that post definitely isn’t representative.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 16, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
No, they’ve got a great community over there.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Most certainly do.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 16, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
And that “All Things Avs” blog link is outstanding. Really good stuff on Jose.
by mechanicsville on Dec 16, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
This comment is NOT indicative of the editorial stance of MHH nor the general consensus of MHH members. Read the updated recap of the game and the comments below.
Mile High Hockey: Hoping for the best, expecting the worst, hating the Wings.
No worries Joe. I’m actually an Avs fan in my spare time and I wander over to your parts pretty frequently. I should probably comment some, but I’m already stretched over here and I just got Gamecenter Live this year.
Out of curiosity, what the hell was with all the empty seats last night? I know attendance at the Can has been rough (I was at the Nashville game before Thanksgiving), but that was pretty pathetic. The Avs have shown their start wasn’t a total fluke, and the Caps are the most exciting team in the league with the best player in the world??? Do you think the Nugs’ and Rox’s relative success is siphoning money away?
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Funny you mention being an Avs fan. I was a closet Avs fan for awhile too. It started when Keith Jones was traded there back in the day, then Kono, then Hunter.
I have a Patrick Roy Avs jersey among my collection that I enjoy wearing. I may pull it out again later this week for the hell of it.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Ticket prices are astronomical at The Can compared to the product on the ice. Even with some outstanding young talent, the team is poorly promoted in general. Without Sakic, Forsberg and Roy, there’s no big star draw to get butts in seats. Stastny is a superstar in the making, but he’s not there yet, and he doesn’t have the charisma or the mystique that past Avalanche centers have had. He still comes across like a little kid.
Also, with the economy being what it is and Denver having three other pro teams (three of which are currently playing), hockey has fallen off of people’s list of things to do.
There’s lots of factors, but mostly the awful season last year, the lack of big names on the team and the high cost of attendance is keeping fans at home.
Mile High Hockey: Hoping for the best, expecting the worst, hating the Wings.
I like how you guys call it “The Can”. Makes it sound like a Gentleman’s Club.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that’s mostly what I figured. Still, disappointed that they couldn’t turn out for the Caps.
The night I was there, I saw some guy wearing a Wings jersey. I really wanted to punch him. I can’t help it.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
I used to be pretty much indifferent to the Wings, but spending a few minutes on Abel to Yzerman made me DESPISE them. If there was ever a fanbase that needed a reality check, and a comeuppance, its that one.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Abel to Yzerman is crazy. Also, the Wings fans I know in real life are like them.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
I guess everyone in Denver still things the Avs are the same sucky team they were last year. It takes fans a little while to get convinced that a turnaround has taken place. (If they’re still near the top when Feb rolls around, the fans should start getting more convinced. Of course, by then, there won’t be any more football.)
Rocking the Red since 1975
I think it has more to do with the Nugs and Rox being so good and the economy being so bad, rather than football. The Broncos consistently sell out regardless, so the Avs are competing with the Nugs and Rox for sports dollars.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Still when football season’s over, there will be one less thing competing for entertainment dollars in Denver, so that should improve the odds for the Avs to draw fans.
(If not, the fans in Quebec City can lobby to buy the Avs and return the Nordiques back to their original home.)
Rocking the Red since 1975
The only thing more outrageous than that hit? Lisa Hillary’s holiday sweater on the CSN broadcast.
/Blackwell’d
"After the Cold War, the AK-47 became Russia's biggest export. After that came vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists (and a couple good hockey players)."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 16, 2009 7:34 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
What was worse, in my estimation, was Michael Jernkin’s complete inability to come up with some witty remarks about her sweater. You could tell he was trying his hardest, but the snark just wasn’t rolling off the tongue like it should have been. It was pretty late though, to be fair.
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions
As far as enjoying the CSN holiday party goes, I’m guessing one of them might have been in second or third gear.
"After the Cold War, the AK-47 became Russia's biggest export. After that came vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists (and a couple good hockey players)."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 16, 2009 8:18 AM EST up reply actions
You mean his comment “my eyes hurt” wasn’t clever enough for you? hah!
Only funny part about that sweater situation was her embarrassment as they closed the broadcast with a 20-second extreme close-up of her chest.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Did you mug a homeless guy for that rag?
So, how’s that knitting class you’re taking coming along?
Let me guess… you lost a bet with Koken.
That was stylish… in 1974
You need to have a long talk with your “Secret Santa”
If you've read this far...seek help.
I didn’t see it, but it sounds like it was just a terrible sweater. Are we talking something Coogi-esque?
Or Andy Willaims-esque?
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
-Williams….spell fail.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 8:37 AM EST up reply actions
Subject line fail too. We need some way to hide those sweaters. I guess I’ll just turn down the brightness on my laptop screen.
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
Like Ted Nugent’s pecs, they should be enjoyed in their full glory
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
Get me a picture of Cosby in a sweater and some zubaz pants holding a guitar and a cross bow. Then I’m sold.
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 8:48 AM EST up reply actions
Oh how I wish I knew photoshop.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 8:58 AM EST up reply actions
Heh. I could do it if I weren’t at work. Although, I think the sheer awesomeness of that image would cause my computer to crash, so it would be risky.
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
More like the Williams sweater. I was only half watching and getting ready to turn out the light for sleep, so I didn’t really see it in all it’s glory. But I got the gist of it.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Well…I like that one if only because it seems like they lose every time they wear it. That Avs third jersey is hideous though, and it’s obvious no thought went into it whatsoever. I enjoyed the Konwalchuk-era Avs third jersey.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
Looks like Michael Jackson behind that mask.
But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
Well…Jose has had to look at the man in the mirror a lot recently
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
And here…we…go
"After the Cold War, the AK-47 became Russia's biggest export. After that came vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists (and a couple good hockey players)."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 16, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
I just can’t stop till I get enough :)
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
BP wishes we would all just beat it and head to a fanpost or something.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I never thought he was entertaining. Shoo.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
On the contrary, I enjoy it. It’s Human Nature.
"After the Cold War, the AK-47 became Russia's biggest export. After that came vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists (and a couple good hockey players)."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 16, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
WM secretly loves making puns. He’s just In The Closet.
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t even get two of the last three.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Dec 16, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
Hey now, Why You Wanna Trip On [Ovechwin]?
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, too bad we lost one of our Pretty Young Things to injury and another was held scoreless.
The artist formerly known as thehoagster07
by what Juneau about that? on Dec 16, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Worst sweater ever? Depends on whether or not any of those proposed Caps 3rd sweaters are adopted.
Just say no to 3rd sweaters. I can live with a ‘throwback’ uni that comes out once in a while, and I’m not talking about throwing back to any of those hideous mid-90s incarnations.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
The barber shops are awesome in still shots or live, but awful on television (and radio).
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Dec 16, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder why Lisa Hillary was wearing this Ducks jersey last night?
"I think the relentless negative coverage in The Washington Post is a real difference from previous years," Redskins general counsel David Donovan said. "But in terms of the way our actual fans are behaving, we don't see any difference."
From the era when all things brutal and grownup — hockey, Las Vegas — were temporarily turned cartoonish and family-friendly. (And I say this as someone whose second team is Anaheim.)
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Dec 16, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Or this...(teeth on gorilla should be clenched here)
But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
Exactly. “Al Gorilla” to be exact. My wife has been going to games with me for several years and she always thought it was the Abominable Snowman.
But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
It might be the worst logo in the league, and that’s saying something.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Pretty much far and away worst in the AHL… but in the ECHL, we have:
the Victoria Salmon Kings!
by IRockTheRed on Dec 16, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions
I like this one because I hate all things Black and Gold.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Dec 16, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
As a UMCP alum, that kinda hurts…
Maryland, We’re all behind you,
Raise high the Black and Gold.
For there is nothing quite so glorious,
As to see our team victorious.
We got the team boys,
We got the steam boys.
So keep on fighting – don’t give in.
M A R Y L A N D
Maryland, will Win.
Caps fan in Minnesota
Yeah, you guys have fun fight songs. We had one we were using illegally with “Buzz Buzz Buzz! Here come the hornets! Sting sting sting! Watch out the Hornets!”
Now it’s
Down in the valley
You can hear a mighty buzz
All our rivals fear us
and we know this fact because
We are Shenandoah
and with our Red and Blue
We’ll fight for alma mater
And for Hornet Vict’ry too.
I don’t even remember the words to the Alma Mater, but I know it opens with “We are the Portals, noble inspiring, Champions of our youth.”
Yeah, no thanks.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
The Maryland victory song is pretty bad ass. This is true.
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly, he worked some week attempts in there, but nothing inspired. I was looking for something like:
“This was a statement game, and the only thing louder than the Capitals’ statement tonight is Lisa’s sweater.”
“Craig Anderson had a pretty ugly game out there. The only thing uglier that I have seen recently is that sweater Lisa is wearing.”
“Kyle Wilson might have a bright future in this league. It’s too bad his performance was eclipsed by the glare off Lisa’s sweater.”
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 8:38 AM EST up reply actions
He could have at least made some sort of “sweater puppies” joke.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
It was Lisa Hillary.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Dec 16, 2009 8:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
“If you put that sweater on ice girls it would make for a very effective Craig Anderson deterrent.”
by BradleyFightingVehicle on Dec 16, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
Some folks think poretty highly of all Lisa’s sweaters but that one is/was pretty ridiculous…
by markbona-capsfan99 on Dec 16, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Speaking of Erksine, I find it funny that after many people (including myself) have complained all season long about how the caps never stand up for their teammates (and it always seems to be green) after dirty hits, nobody really seemed to laud Erskine for stepping in there for his downed teammate. I think he played a solid game on the whole too.
While I do agree that having a guy like Erskine (or another “real” enforcer) on the team isn’t going to strike fear in dirty players minds, it will allow the goons such as Koci to “contribute their part” by scrapping with another goon therefore preventing a hit like this. I think the most famous example can be seen in the Todd Brettuzi/Steve Moore debacle. Bretuzzi had no one to fight to express his anger and took it out on Moore.
Resign Semin so I don't have to buy yet another new jersey.
I thought the Bertuzzi-Moore incident was started because of a play in an earlier game where Moore knocked out a Canucks player (Markus Naslund maybe?). I think some have said that the Canucks coach at the time put a “bounty” on Moore’s head. So it wasn’t that Bertuzzi was looking for anyone to take his anger out on, per se, he was looking specifically for Moore.
by BradleyFightingVehicle on Dec 16, 2009 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough there was a lot more going on in the Bretuzzi incident (I was kinda trying to make an extreme example), but I think its reasonable to assume, given what’s happened so far this season, that there are some players who are specifically targeting the caps young guns, kind of like Bertuzzi was going after Moore (again, acknowledging that there is a vast difference between this situation and that). I’m just proposing that if we “entertain” the goons with a good round of fisticuffs early on, they’re far less likely to go headhunting later on in the game.
Resign Semin so I don't have to buy yet another new jersey.
I did see a bit in the GDT, but I feel as though it was still much lower than it would have been if say, Bradely, Clark, or Laich had stepped in. And as for the recap, I see mentions of Erskine, but don’t feel as though any of it was really that positive.
Resign Semin so I don't have to buy yet another new jersey.
That’s more a factor of a) it being really late when said recap was written and b) having just ten bullet points to discuss the game.
But yes, I was very proud of Erskine for stepping in and taking care of business. In my mind, he’s all the enforcer we need on nights like this – and he had a decent game, especially considering the shortened bench by the end. I’m probably not as much of an Erskine-hater as some others around here, though, so I find less of a reason to single him out on a regular basis, good or bad ;)
I’ll also praise Erskine here. Look, I am not a believer that having a goon can prevent this stuff, but someone needs to do something when a hit like that happens to anyone on the team, much less a young gun. Erskine did his job right there, and if he had wilted in that moment (especially given that Koci is a true heavyweight), I would have questioned his role on this team, solid play last night aside. Erskine knows his job, and I tip my hat to him for doing it well. Some things are worth an instigator, and that was one of them.
That play didn’t “deserve” an instigator, but it did deserve a fight.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Is that right? The rule may be dumb, but that seemed like an instigating situation to me. Then again, I haven’t seen a replay to see when Koci’s gloves come off. Whether it was one or not, it was worth 2 minutes. Frankly, Erskine could have taken more than 2 mins of the PP and I’d still be in favor of it. His actions may not deter anyone, but they’re essential for the locker room.
nobody really seemed to laud Erskine for stepping in there for his downed teammate
I saw plenty of love going Hot Pocket’s way for that. GDT, Recap, etc. Or do you mean “nobody outside the Rink”?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 16, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
I did see a bit in the GDT, but I feel as though it was still much lower than it would have been if say, Bradely, Clark, or Laich had stepped in. And as for the recap, I see mentions of Erskine, but don’t feel as though any of it was really that positive.
Resign Semin so I don't have to buy yet another new jersey.
I think most of us went quickly through “good on you Oisk” to the need for a suspension, and to the hole that left in the Caps’ lineup the rest of the night (only 3 defensemen while Oisk served his 10 minute misconduct). To some extent we expect that out of Erskine. I also think people didn’t dwell on it because, well, he lost the fight.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 16, 2009 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Losses or wins don’t really change whether you stood up for your guy. If you lose, Green still goes into that locker room, sees you with a swollen nose, and knows you’re willing to do what it takes to demand accountability. Unfortunately, it doesn’t always work that way.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Dec 16, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions
I just don’t see Erskine losing a fight to Koci as providing much accountability for Koci. If Erskine had beat the snot out of him, sure. But this result doesn’t strike me as much of a deterrent.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 16, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Good on Erskine for stepping up for Green, especially given the size and pugilistic skill of the guy he took on. Koci pretty much handed Hot Pocket his lunch there, but he stood and took it like a pastry stuffed with grade D meat.
The problem with your “real enforcer” hypothesis is that, in this type of game, the fight between the two goons probably wouldn’t have happened anyhow, because the Caps went up so quickly. Midway through the 2nd (I believe), he tried to go with Brads and Brads turned him down. Brash likely would have done the same thing. The game’s pretty much over by that point. Koci’s behavior wouldn’t have been affected by the presence of a goon one way or the other – the guy is a cementhead.
What last night did demonstrate, however, is why it’s problematic to have a defenseman as your enforcer. True, the situation was extreme, with both Green and ShaMo out with injuries, but shit happens. The Caps were left with 3 defenseman, and only 2 once Poti took his penalty.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
by D'ohboy on Dec 16, 2009 9:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
BB really nails it in the press conference in basically saying that the root of the problem is that guys like Koci are allowed to play in the NHL in the first place. They contribute nothing at all to the quality of the game. It’s absurd that the Caps should even have to consider replacing a well-rounded fourth-line forward or third line center just to account for guys like Koci. But here we are…
I was actually thinking of doing a fanpost on this later, but work might intervene. Essentially, I think the NHL needs to fine/suspend guys like Koci out of the league. I don’t want to get rid of fighting, or tough guys, but I think that worse than marginal NHL players like Koci need to be held to different (more stringent) standards of conduct, because they essentially contribute nothing on the ice. Brashear could at least skate a regular shift – Koci can’t even manage that. He serves no function other than to fight and to pull crap like last night. However, because of his size and the fact that he’s only on the ice for 4 minutes per night, the only guys he ever fights are other guys like him. Enforcers in the age of the instigator rule and the “staged fight” have become self-licking ice cream cones that occasionally dole out lickings to guys like Green.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
He serves no function other than to fight and to pull crap like last night
We just did a recent history of Koci… You’re comment is pretty much spot on.
If you've read this far...seek help.
I like it. To that end, a 10-game suspension for Koci would be a nice start in sending a message to the rest of the goons that this kind of thing is going to be rooted out.
Using the Ovechkin suspension logic; Koci’s a repeat offender, he deliberately and maliciously ran an unsuspecting guy from behind into the boards and it resulted in an injury. If Ovie gets two games for his hit on Gleason then Koci deserves 2-3 times that.
Can’t remember if I said it before on this thread or elsewhere, but that hit looked an awful lot like the one that got that kid kicked out of juniors forever.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 16, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Actually worse. But I have a huge problem with analogizing NHL discipline to amateur discipline.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I agree. I don’t think Koci should be thrown out of the league. But both hits were dirty for the same reasons.
(I think Koci shouldn’t get signed by any team in the offseason because he’s useless, but that’s another story)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 16, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I agree. I don’t think Koci should be thrown out of the league. But both hits were dirty for the same reasons.
(I think Koci shouldn’t get signed by any team in the offseason because he’s useless, but that’s another story)
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 16, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
If he wants to do that garbage, he can go play in the LNAH.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Dec 16, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Brash sez
Actually, probably not.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Couldn’t agree more with you. We don’t need an enforcer.
But I do like JP’s notion of reopening the debate on team toughness. I didn’t catch all of the game and obviously it was a great result for the Caps, but what I did see was an aggressive Colorado team that finished its checks and banged Ovie and other skilled players every chance they got. Our fourth line and Ovie (though not so much last night) finish checks, and Shamo and Jurcina I guess on the back line, but we really don’t have enough moderately skilled grit. As has been brought up in the “Spend Leonsis’ Money” fanpost, having a couple of guys like Jackman and Nolan I think would do wonders for this team. Guys who play their positions pretty well, but have grit, finish their checks hard and will drop ’em if necessary. #needsmoreedge IMHO
Jeebus, I wish we had a player like Chris Stewart. That kid’s a stud. Mabye Osala in a year or so? Fingers crossed.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
by D'ohboy on Dec 16, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ve never see Osala play in Hershey so don’t have an impression on his edge/toughness. But looks like his PIMs are up this year, maybe he’s gaining that side of his game. And he’s a Fin — those guys are generally pretty scrappy.
With you on Stewart.
Stewie’s weird, because he wasn’t supposed to be as good as his older brother, but thus far he’s much better.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
To me that’s more of a condemnation of one brother than a compliment for the other. But yeah, good for the younger guy.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, Ian Schultz is a Blues prospect.
"It's like water. You want to drink it. You will drink it."
by Steck It Out on Dec 16, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But I can’t judge him, as I have never seen him play.
"It's like water. You want to drink it. You will drink it."
by Steck It Out on Dec 16, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Mine either, but Jeff and Ian are.
And, if they were …
Jeff Schultz: 1-6-7, +14, 12 PIM, 9.1 relative Corsi @ 5v5
Nick Schultz: 1-4-5, -7, 12 PIM, -5.5 relative Corsi @ 5v5
Things that make you go hmmm….
Unleash the Alex!
One of these two guys plays on a good team. (I’ll give you a hint: it’s not Schultz.)
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Wrong!
It is Schultz!
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
My opinion on it was Good on Erskine for stepping up for Green, bad for Boudreau to have Green and Erskine on the ice at the same time.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
The d pairings were hosed from the first period onward due to Morrisonn’s injury. He was basically going with a 5-man rotation with no set pairs, hence Green-Pocket.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
As much as I absolutely hate that pairing….
Green-Pocketwill live on in my mind for eternity.
by HateOffSeason on Dec 16, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
Does that make Pothier “Pocket Green”?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 16, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Personally,
I could go for some Mo’ Green.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
Valid point, I guess a vetran enforce (Brash, Larque, etc.) would turn that fight down as to not risk losing any momentum, but I don’t think Brads was really going to unless it was 100% necessary given the results of his last two fights. I think the answer here would be to occasionally call up a guy from the AHL, a guy that will fight because he “has something to prove”, as needed. It would be a tiny cap hit, and he would be far more willing to go in routs.
Resign Semin so I don't have to buy yet another new jersey.
Or we could just sign Iginla…now there’s a guy who can win fights and still contribute.
Resign Semin so I don't have to buy yet another new jersey.
I wish. I’ve had a hockey crush on Jarome for years. he’s why I watch Flames games. If he played in NY or Toronto he’d be a sports deity.
A man gotta have a code
You put Iggy on either of those rosters and it adds a scoring punch either could use to be more consistent. Brings some vet leadership as well. I hate both teams, but he’d make them both playoff squads, especially the Rags.
A man gotta have a code
I think we’d have a better chance at acquiring Iggy Wiggum
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
Based last year, Brash wouldn’t have done anything besides get knocked out by Wade Belak and just kind of skated around for a few shifts like the rotting hulk of an aging battle ship
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
We already have someone on the NHL roster who is a healthy scratch most nights, sees some time on the 4th line and has something to prove. He wears #89. He might wanna think about developing that edge to his game.
Well done
Can I ask where hot pocket came from?
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
’Tis a shame Brads turned him down — could have had a Gordie!
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 16, 2009 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
Those third jerseys are remarkable! I love the squashed Pickelhaube logo. Nothing says “USA” like a Prussian helmet.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 16, 2009 9:24 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Awwwwwww
Swift Current’s Cody Eakin (Washington) has been released by Team Canada.
"And next year it will be ours."
Well, we all know about that chip on the shoulder….
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Thanks for following this so closely, as clearly I am only reading the reports. That will unfortunately seal your fate in a situation like that, I guess.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Paul Simon Eakin
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
I’m sure theRussiansAmericans can’t wait to see him again
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Sorry, I was just remembering a bad move he made last year. I’m sure something like that doesn’t happen again.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Didn’t he take out JVR? I remember that, vaguely…I was quite proud of our little Delly for being so scrappy.
There were a few games where he got out of control.
The Caps need that kind of paper, the shit-stirrer.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 16, 2009 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
Player*
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 16, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
They need his grit just not the out of control thing. SDR himself has commented that he needs to watch the penalties.
A man gotta have a code
Which makes me like him all the more. I’d be more worried if he weren’t conscious of the penalties and the effect they can have on a team. He knows his role and understands he also has to limit himself.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 16, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
Same here. You’ll find no bigger fan of his than me.
Caps fans who haven’t seen him play may be surprised with his skill with the puck. Most times when his name here it is mentioned in relation to his grit/toughness.
A man gotta have a code
I forget, were you the Rink Rat who was telling me they’ve seen him play in Barrie frequently? I thought you were in PHX…
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Huh. I remember having a convo with someone about SDR last year regarding his pugilistic skills. Or something like that.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Not sure who that was. Those pugilistic skills are well documented online. Gotta be a dozen or so videos of his fights over the last couple of years floating around.
A man gotta have a code
If you search for SDR on YouTube you’ll get a ton of fights. As well as his hits on Shattenkirk and JVR.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 16, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Lost in all of this is that Alzner played a great game, I feel.
In addition (two totally separate thoughts) I find it kind of ironic how we feel about enforcers/grit as a community. We want more grit, and some of us want an enforcer, but John Erskine’s not good enough, Donald Brashear fights teenagers, Matt Cooke knees people. If we look at more players we could acquire, there seems to be an excuse for why we don’t want that player due to something he’s done. I dunno, it just kind of bugged me.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
He played pretty well. He got skated around once at some point either late in the second or in the third (and I forget by whom), forcing his d-partner to cover for him, but nothing really came of it. It just looked as though he lost gap control at the blue line, likely due to the speed differential between AHL players and NHL players. Hopefully he’ll adjust quickly, but this isn’t the first time I’ve seen this happen to him.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
What really stood out to me about Alzner was one play – he made a pass off the boards to Backstrom in a tight-knit pack that led to the first goal. It made me smile.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Yeah, his outlets are pretty bitchin. He plays with his head up constantly, which is typically what separates great D-men from good ones.
I wonder if anyone else noticed the play I referred to above, or similar ones. It seems to me as though he doesn’t like to back off the blueline to create separation. This means that he can sometimes force the play or create a turnover, and he’s less likely to screen his keeper. However, the downside is that guys with speed can get around him on occasion. For what it’s worth, Eminger used to do the same thing.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Hadn’t noticed but that seems to make sense. I would love to read a fanpost about it, if someone has the video expertise to show us the game film.
Throw suggestions of what you want broken down in my latest breakdown and I’ll see what I can do.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I thought you wanted something difficult.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
If you guys can note period and time on the clock, send them to my email address (in profile), I can capture those types of gems. You would need to email me pretty quickly either during or just after a game. I can only store a couple games on DVR – it’s a revolving door of sorts.
AYHSMLN
I’m going to watch the DVR of the game tonight or tomorrow and I’ll let you know if I catch it. Thanks.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
Serious suggestion: breaking down how guys work the cycle to create scoring chances. I find it interesting at least.
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
It’s already on my list. It’ll be fairly difficult getting the video for though.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
I remember a good example from last year with Backstrom and Fedorov. I wish I could remember the game. It’s probably better to use a more recent example though.
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
That was a sweet pass! I think it helped set up the 2nd goal, but I get your point. Very happy to have 27 where he belongs.
by mechanicsville on Dec 16, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Sct112 pointed out the 3rd period walk. I didn’t have a good view of a TV so I missed it. My comment to him was “at least he’ll learn from his mistake.” I stand by that.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
“At some point you start to wonder whether sheer ignorance will cost Semyon Varlamov Calder votes. [FanHouse]”
He is #4 on the list now.
Lobbies: Green, Carlson
I guess you meant because he was only added afterwards, I get it now, I think.
Lobbies: Green, Carlson
Ovie's "Sore Body Part" of yesterday
Is there any news on this Part? Is it still sore? What part it might be? Is it an essential Part? Is this something to worry about? There are Parts and there are Parts and I am wondering if this one is, well, an important one.
To quote a friend of mine: Too much Sex before games.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
Good guess. I edited it though.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Dec 16, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions
haha, no doubt. hey, random request (feel free to ignore): can we get a picture of AO or something on the JRHL league front page? just something/anything to look at besides the september note.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 16, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Ask, and you shall receive.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Dec 16, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
There is one comment on the FanHouse post about the Koci hit, and I think it sums it sums up the situation pretty well. Please note that the emphasis is NOT mine :)
Game Over 12-16-2009 1:29AM
DOESN’T GET ANYMORE GUTLESS THAN THAT. I GUESS HE COULD HAVE GONE INTO THE STANDS & HIT A 5 YEAR OLD GIRL IN THE BACK. TOTAL WASTE OF A ROSTER SPOT. WAKE UP & CUT THIS IDIOT. HE COULDN’T MAKE IN THE ECHL.
Didn’t know Game Over Greenie spent his spare time on FanHouse, but he’s protecting those 5 year old girls in the stands!
The artist formerly known as thehoagster07
by what Juneau about that? on Dec 16, 2009 10:34 AM EST reply actions
I read nothing that’s written in all caps. It sends up the same flag for me as “I’m a huge Caps fan, but…”
"So much on my mind I just can't recline. Blastin' holes in the night 'til she bled sunshine."
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 16, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Ovechkin is a great player, but
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
…does he know why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
The world may never know
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 16, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
For those of you advocating the need for an enforcer…check out this interesting snippet from MHH’s recap:
Matt Duchene and Craig Anderson have been getting roughed up all season, so it’s not like Koci has provided any kind of protection.
And from one of our own (via Corey):
“I don’t really know what a heavyweight is going to do to deter the situation,” David Steckel said. “It has basically been stupid plays on all three. What are you going to do? Have a guy out there only to just take care of stuff like this? Well, [Erskine] took care of it tonight.”
I’ve always thought Stecks was a wise man…and he’s right. How do you deter stupidity?
With a professor.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Dec 16, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Indeed – #needsmoreBradley. Luckily we already employ him so we don’t have to go looking for more toughness.
And unlike the last guy in the role, he brings a little value with his PK work.
"After the Cold War, the AK-47 became Russia's biggest export. After that came vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists (and a couple good hockey players)."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 16, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
If anyone thinks Bradley is going to deter this sort of behavior… I have water front property in the Sahara to sell.
I love Brads just as much as the next guy, and I love his heart and willingness to step in when it needs to be done. But he ain’t exactly and expert pugilist. As has been said before, bleeding on people doesn’t act as much of a deterrent.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 16, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno. Have you seen that part of Fight Club?
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
by D'ohboy on Dec 16, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Rec damnation, man! Rec redemption! We are God’s unwanted children? So be it!
"After the Cold War, the AK-47 became Russia's biggest export. After that came vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists (and a couple good hockey players)."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 16, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
I actually quoted that part in the Recap of last night.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 16, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
I thought that’s why he mentioned it. Guess not.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
What did Erskine take care of? Not to take away from him stepping up, of course, but seriously – what did he take care of?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Erskine still gets a pass as a fighter from me for popping Lucic’s nose, but that was a loooong time ago.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
I know that you know that Erskine is a well above average fighter. And the fight last night was not that lopsided, despite Joe B’s overly dramatic “Oh dear, oh my” while Erskine’s jersey was over his head.
I actually don’t think he’s well above average anymore. Once upon a time, he was a decent cruiserweight, but I think a lack of practice has somewhat eroded his skills.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
You have a point about the erosion of skills, but I’ve always been impressed by his wild, haymaker-throwing style. He goes for broke, and it either pays off with impressive wins (Lucic two years ago) or draws (Belak last year). Yet this style is exactly why he can’t fight more frequently, thanks to Godard’s kabong on his jaw two seasons ago.
Thornton, Laraque, and Koci ain’t a bad fight card this year. The common theme with all Erskine fights since the Godard one in spring ‘08 is that he didn’t seek out any of them. When forced to go, he goes, and goes pretty well. Damn shame.
In fairness to Erskine, he did the best he could, and it was better than just letting Koci walk away Scott-free.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Absolutely. Couldn’t agree more. But did what long-term impact did it have? Heck, what short-term impact did it have?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
If anything, it’s got to make Green feel a little better, knowing that someone finally stuck up for him, after several instances of just turning the other cheek.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Consistent with Steck’s reaction of “Erskine took care of that”. I don’t think the guys care about the result, but very much appreciate a guy who’s willing to step up. Very good for team chemistry.
Deterrent effect to Koci and his ilk: zero. They’re on the ice to injure or rattle the opponent’s stars. Fortunately, there are relatively few of these players left in the league.
Deterrent effect to “sandpaper” type forwards: cognizable, but unquantifiable. Just the simple fact that there is a response to unwarranted liberties has value.
I’m fine with what Erskine did, instigator and all. Doesn’t matter that he lost. The rest of the league will know about it, and that’s what counts.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Is there anything you’d rather him or anyone else have done?
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Nope, he acted perfectly appropriately given his role on this team.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
It’s had the impact of rallying a fan base (for the most part) around him for his actions. I’d be willing to bet that it did the same thing in the locker room. These are positive emotions that reinforce camaraderie, a sense of responsibility to one another (the teammates, not us fans), and simply a “hey, he’s got my back” mentality.
OK, I can give you that, but I guess what I’m getting it is what did that do to dissuade the next guy from levelling a similar hit?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
If a potent PP doesn’t dissuade, and a retaliatory fight doesn’t dissuade, then what does? Have you come all the way back around to “The Caps need an enforcer” or have you reached the point of “there’s nothing you can do about an asshole”? Or is there a third way I’m missing?
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think you bang their stars. Not cheap shots per se, but look for opportunities to catch them along the walls or open ice.
There’s nothing you can do about an asshole if the League isn’t going to make suspensions actually hurt except instill them with the fear that what gets given will come back to them immediately and in spades, and that’s more systemic than anything one guy can provide.
What I mean is that Koci quickly loses all his friends in the room if Stastny turns to Duchene after the hit and says, “Oh, we’re fucked now because that neanderthal ran one of their skill guys.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Right. So it’s the “taste of your own medicine” approach. Even under that case I’m not sure we have the personnel to carry it out. We have guys that will accept physical play, but I don’t see many guys that are going out there to make you hurt and make it hard to play against. That’s been a big part of my complaint with Steckel and Laich. Going to the tough areas is one thing; making them the tough areas is another.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
Even under that case I’m not sure we have the personnel to carry it out.
Agreed. It’s not a one-man fix.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
So, what’s wrong with the current situation, where Stasny turns to Duchene and says, “Oh we’re fucked now because that neanderthal ran one of their skill guys, and now they’re going to drop a 3-spot on us during the PP.” (Last night’s example notwithstanding since we were already up a touchdown)
by mechanicsville on Dec 16, 2009 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
He responded. Simple as that. He had a human reaction to seeing his teammate crumpled on the ice. To me, that’s all Stecks is talking about, not some big, bad enforcer TCOB thing.
It's BTO. They're Canada's answer to ELP. Their big hit was TCB.
That’s how we talked in the ‘70s. We didn’t have a moment to spare.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
It’s from the Simpsons. He’s referring to Bachmann-Turner Overdrive. They were Canada’s answer to Emerson, Lake and Palmer (which isn’t true, that was Rush), and their big hit was, of course, “Taking Care of Business.”
NOW GET TO THE WORKING OVERTIME PART!!!
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
At least 2 friends of mine from school (stoners) would argue Triumph was a better Canuck power trio than Rush.
by Pi on Dec 16, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
While I grudgingly possessed a nice, silky scarf, those were proudly adorned by those pansy heavy/bomber types, not us fighter jocks.
pansy heavy/bomber types
now i have Catch 22 in my head. might have to reread that goodness.
by ns on Dec 16, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
How do you deter stupidity?
Offer him a hot pocket?
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Dec 16, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Ya hungry?
Something to eat? Not even a hot pocket?
by Kolzilla on Dec 16, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’d add one thing to that though – the guys scrapping to protect them all year have mostly been Foote, Stewart and McLeod. The reason for that is that they’re actually on the ice when stuff goes down, whereas Koci is nailed to the bench where he belongs.
Honestly, if I had my druthers, we’d have a guy like Stewart or McLeod on the team instead of Laing or Sloan. I love Brads, but the guy can’t fight for crap and he needs to quit it – he’s got responsibilities now.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Just curious, all — wwhat would your reaction have been if JE4 gets up off the ice, drops the gloves, and drops Koci with one punch?
Unleash the Alex!
It would have been more cathartic, but ultimately we would have realized that it did nothing to prevent Green’s face from getting smashed in.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
by D'ohboy on Dec 16, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Steinz is in outstanding form this afternoon
…the Caps had lost 17 different d-men due to injuries, penalties, in-game suspensions, water breaks and equipment malfunctions, which meant that Brooks Laich had to fill some time on the blue line. When you’re a budding folk hero and extreme fan favorite, filling in on defense will not hurt your cause….
Laich now joins Tyler Sloan, Sergei Fedorov, Lorenzo Alexander, Nyjer Morgan and zero members of the Washington Wizards as recent D.C. sports stars who have played both offense and defense.
also appearing on the Bog: pictures of that stick that got stuck on the glass
Fun fact: A popular opinion can still be stupid.
Makin’ pals, makin’ pals…
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Dec 16, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Laich played two shifts on D last year. This is nothing new.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
by Whiter Mage on Dec 16, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
“A budding folk hero.” He needs a song – The Ballad of Brooks Laich, Hero of Wawota.
I could have been equipment manager, but nooooo!
Sing to “The Yellow Rose of Texas”
There’s the Hero of Wawota
That I am gonna see
Nobody else could match him,
Not one from sea to sea
He can shoot and skate and check hard,
He can tear a team apart
And when the Caps fans watch him
They know he plays with heart
OK, so it’s only one verse.
If you've read this far...seek help.
“The Hero of DC, the man they call… Laich?”
by IRockTheRed on Dec 17, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
It must be late December when he starts the transition from Assburn to Kettler.
"After the Cold War, the AK-47 became Russia's biggest export. After that came vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists (and a couple good hockey players)."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 16, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve been pimping that interview for ages!
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irb63jeX-pg&feature=relatedhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irb63jeX-pg&feature=related" target="new">Another awesome Ilya video
"And next year it will be ours."
I became a fan of Bryzgalov due to that famous Oilers fans sing O Canada video. He’s just standing there with this HUGE smile on his face getting all caught up in the moment. Its fun to see a guy enjoying what he’s doing to that extent.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
Bryz is a quote machine. Yotes need to do a better job of marketing him here in the Valley. Local paper did a nice article on him recently. Link below.
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyotes/articles/2009/12/05/20091205p2spotlight1206.html
A man gotta have a code
I used to have part of that as my ringtone.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 16, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 1:09 PM EST reply actions
awesome. and in light of last night’s thuggery, I recommend to everyone to read the “Wendel Clark’s 17 Greatest Moments” post on the right hand side of the page. this story is great, regardless of what you think of deterrent value.
“Game one of the Campbell Conference finals, the LA Kings visiting the Gardens. The Leafs are cruising to a win late in the third. Doug Gilmour cuts across the blueline with his head down, and Marty McSorley steps into him. Maybe it’s an elbow, maybe not. Gilmour goes down, stick flying through the air, and he stays down.
And suddenly all the optimism of a miracle season is gone. Dougie’s hurt. Fans who were dreaming about a Stanley Cup moments ago can only stare in horror. Marty McSorley has just taken out the Leafs franchise player.
Wendel Clark is a first liner, McSorely is a hired goon. Doesn’t matter.
Wendel is at the end of a shift. Doesn’t matter.
Wendel is worn out and broken down, spending four hours a day on the trainer’s table just to be able to suit up. Doesn’t matter.
Wendel is half McSorley’s size, giving up at least three inches and over 40 lbs. Doesn’t matter.
The best player on the team is down and out, crumpled on the ice, and the other side’s goon is standing over top of him. That’s what matters. That’s all that matters.
This list has featured more than a few examples of Wendel Clark laying guys out, and I’ve made a point of noting the reactions of various teammates. Stu Grimson’s ridiculous “hold me back” routine. Keith Brown’s comedic refusal to get involved. The two Devils who tackle each other instead of going after Wendel. Charlie Bourgeois dropping the gloves, then quickly changing his mind.
Each one of those guys knew what they had to do. And when the time came, each one hesitated and backed off. Can you blame them? After all, it’s easy to talk about doing the right thing. It’s a lot harder to actually do it.
Not for Wendel Clark. Not this time.
He sees the play unfold, watches Gilmour go down. He takes one look over his shoulder to see where the linesmen are. He doesn’t even break stride.
No questions. No hesitation."
Seeing how bad the Flyers are this year makes me very happy we didn’t trade Alzner and Varlamov for Pronger.
I just don’t understand how a team with THAT much talent on paper could be so terrible.
At least we’ll get to see all their awesomeness on New Year’s Day. Bleh.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions
I’m not so sure its that simple though…or is it? I mean, they’ve given up 94 goals, which isn’t that bad compared to the rest of the conference. It just feels like there’s some deeper issue there.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Both of their goalies are giving up around 2.8 goals/game with save percentages around 9. Their scorers are slumping (not having Gagne hurts), so they can’t win by outgunning.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Sooooo glad I traded Gagne this season. I just felt the injuries coming.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Sooooo glad I traded Gagne this season. I just felt the injuries coming.
I’d be more concerned if you didn’t feel the injuries coming. Gagne seems to be hurt every other year.
Yeah. I took over my team from some dude in a keeper league. First order of business was moving that anchor.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
It’s the slumping scorers more than the goaltending IMO. They should be able to get by with 2.8 and .900, IMO. At least for the regular season.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Also, their PK is as mediocre as ours, but they take 3 more penalties/game than we do.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
The PK part is a shock. They’ve had a great PK for a few years now and still have plenty of skill on the PK unit. Guess Gagne hurts more than anyone expected.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
which leads me back to my earlier point – what’s the big change on their PK?
Defense? Hard to imagine that getting worse with the addition of Pronger.
Forwards? Nope, still have Richards and Carter, and they even added Betts and Laperriere.
So that leaves. . . G-O-A-L-T-E-N-D-I-N-G!
Sorry for the snarkiness. There are jackhammers outside my window and I’m trying to work.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Hard to disagree, though it’s not like their goalies last year were world-beaters. I too am mystified, but any Caps fan who’s paid attention the past 3 years should know that a talented roster can still stink it up without the right coach.
The quality of goaltending can have an amazing psychological impact on teams. Great goalies give teams confidence. Crappy goalies make teams tentative.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Ah. So they need Marty Biron to inspire confidence. Got it.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
He might not be great, but he’s a hell of a lot better than Emery. When you’re choices are Emery and the Waterboy, and you choose the Waterboy based on merit, you’re up shit crease without a goalie.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Disagree
He’s not a “hell of a lot better than Emery.” Sure, Emery may have some head case issues, but he’s been to a Cup final, and hasn’t been a career back up. There’s a reason Biron doesn’t win playoff rounds or solidify his role as a number 1 keeper, and it’s not because he’s awesome.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I can think of one series he won :(
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Really? You think that Biron won that series? I think that the Caps didn’t show up for the first half, were lucky to not get swept, didn’t get great goaltending from Huet, had some atrocious reffing, and had to learn a lesson the hard way. Biron was adequate, but he didn’t win the series. I guess technically he was on the winning team, but that’s not what I meant.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Right, but Emery didn’t exactly have to be Patrick Roy for that Sens team, either.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Completely true. They won three series 4-1 before losing 4-1. Not exactly a team carried by a goalie.
I think Emery and Biron are both flawed because they are so inconsistent; but Emery’s ceiling is much higher than Biron’s. His floor may be lower as well. Which I guess is completely inconsistent with my position on the Great Mo’ Juice Debate. Let me mull it over, but I hate Biron so I probably won’t change. He’s not that good, certainly not enough to be the reason PHI went off the deep end. He’s a freaking back up to Dwayne Rolosuck.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Here's a flow chart
Being awesome>Being Good>Biron>Being Crappy>Being Talented but Batshit Insane>Emery
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Not sure I agree with that, but ok.
More to the point, you think Emery is the reason Stevens got fired? Is he still there if they resigned Biron?
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
No, but you have to agree with me that you’ve been on teams where the goalie flaked or what have you, and the entire team in front of him just broke down. I think Game 7 vs. the Pens last year was a good example. Varly lets in a few softies and it’s open season. I think similar things are happening to the Flyers. And I’m lovin’ it!
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
I definitely agree on the psychological impact of a crappy goalie. It can kill a team. I’m just not sure why that would matter this year as opposed to the last two years. PHI hasn’t had a reliable goalie since I first started noticing hair on my nuts, but they’ve still had good teams. On paper, this year’s team is better than the last two, especially at D. Why the implosion now?
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Boucher is starting because Emery is hurt, not because he has outplayed Emery.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 16, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
It’s goaltending and a lack of a team. They don’t play as a team; the unit is not cohesive.
Hockey players aren't like other people. Witt after being hit by a car:
I’m okay. No big deal...I’ve got to go play some hockey. I’m a hockey player.
Maybe so, but if you remove the other variables, what you’re left with is that they went from Biron/Niitymaki to Emery/Boucher.
As always, it’s not as simple as 2+2=4, but I don’t see a reason to make this inordinately complex – the team didn’t change systems, didn’t change PK forwards (and the changes they made were likely a net positive) and acquired one of the best defensemen in the history of the NHL.
Do you think their PK just might suck because they have a headcase and a journeyman backup between the pipes?
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Well it’s convenient to your argument that if you remove Emery you’re left with the same team but hockey and people aren’t as simple as 2+2=4. Even season to season is way different for teams when they don’t change a player.
With that said, I think Emery is absolute poison to locker rooms and I believe the root of the issue is leadership. From the players, from the coaches, from the GM.
If their goaltending was worse I could agree with you but they are getting the same type of goaltending the Caps have been with Theo (pre-varly) and the Caps are doing fine.
PLUS, they have the best D on paper in the NHL imo. This is way deeper than “just goaltending.”
Hockey players aren't like other people. Witt after being hit by a car:
I’m okay. No big deal...I’ve got to go play some hockey. I’m a hockey player.
Ok, but I can point to statistics and evidence. I’m not trying to be snarky, but where’s your proof that “leadership” and “chemistry” (inferring there) are to blame?
The team’s PP is good. They’re even 5v5. Their PK, which was a strength last year, totally sucks this year. The made major changes in net. Their goaltending stats are worse. I think you’re looking for something that’s not there. I’m open to suggestion, but you’ve got to give me something more than “leadership.”
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Your evidence is a goalie at over a .900sv%? You can be snarky all you want but your stats really don’t show why a team that should be easily top 6 in the east is struggling to keep their head above water.
Hockey players aren't like other people. Witt after being hit by a car:
I’m okay. No big deal...I’ve got to go play some hockey. I’m a hockey player.
.900 isn't great, but it's still less than .915
My evidence is that:
A) Their 5v5 and 5v4 stats are essentially identical to last year
B) Their Shots For/Against is actually BETTER than it was last year (and not by a small amount, either)
C) Their PIMs are virtually identical to last year
D) They made personnel changes but, given the outstanding track record of Pronger and Betts, I’m doubting they’re making the PK worse (although obviously this is tough to prove definitively)
As I said above, it’s rarely as simple as 2+2=4, but in this case, I think that the fact that their goaltending duo from last year put up nearly identical stat lines (2.76 GAA and .912 and .915 Sv %), whereas this year, their goalie stat lines are 2.83 (Emery), 2.70 (Boucher) and .900 Sv % (both) is the clearest, simplest answer. Occam’s Razor and all that.
Look, if you think the fact that Richards is butt-hurt because Carter doubleteamed his wife with Hartnell (or whatever ridiculous rumor is flying around), I can’t really prove or disprove that. If you think that losing Gagne, and Knuble affected it, I can buy that (Upshall barely had any PK time). But it seems that there’s a pretty simple answer – their goaltenders just haven’t been as good as last year.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
If you watch the Flyers play it is extremely clear that they are not playing as well in front of their goalies as they did last year. Although it may be counter intuitive, the PK is most definitely worse than it was last year. It goes beyond just allowing goals, they aren’t creating and cashing in on nearly as many SH chances. The goals against may be credited to either the goalie or the PKers (or both), but the huge drop in SH offense can only be blamed on the PKers, and more specifically the forwards (again, getting back to the play of Carter and Richards and the lack of Gagne).
And while they may give up fewer shots, they don’t give up fewer chances. Their D has been terrible with turnovers and breakdowns, and that includes Pronger. Notice how the team started off hot and the goalies were great when Pronger was playing like the Norris frontrunner and Carle had broken out? Now both are consistently making mistakes AND not scoring. Like the forwards, the D isn’t living up to their paper potential.
Actually, I think the fact that the goalie stats are the same for both goalies for each season suggests that it is the team that is changing, not the goalies. Last year the team was playing better and it didn’t matter which mediocre goalie is in, they still put up better numbers than the mediocre goalies from this year when the team isn’t playing as well.
And Upshall doesn’t need to kill penalties because he doesn’t create them nearly as often as Carcillo does.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 17, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
Actually, I think the fact that the goalie stats are the same for both goalies for each season suggests that it is the team that is changing, not the goalies.
See my “Good Lord” comment below. All you say may be true, but PHI’s goalies were much, MUCH better on the PK last year.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Also, you noted they get the same quality of goaltending that we do out of Theo. Couldn’t agree more. . . And guess what??? Their PK percentage is exactly the same as ours. Fancy that.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Doesn’t that work against your argument that the goalie is the sole problem?
Hockey players aren't like other people. Witt after being hit by a car:
I’m okay. No big deal...I’ve got to go play some hockey. I’m a hockey player.
Think about it for a sec.
If we can think of the performance of a given system as the sum total of all the inputs to that system (not a great method, but work with me here), such that:
A* + B* + C* + N*… = X, then we can break a PK down into constituent parts like so:
A (Forwards) + B (Defense) + C (Goalie) = X (PK %) (Yes, I know this is stupidly simple and there would be factors to differentiate the relative contributions of each piece, but that’s not needed here.)
Phi PK roughly equal to Caps’ PK – via NHL.com, so we can hold X constant
Phi goaltending roughly equal to Theo – your statement and backed up by stats, so we can hold C constant.
What I’m hypothesizing (and statistical and anecdotal evidence back this up) is that goaltending is by far the largest component of penalty killing. Essentially, you can make large changes in A and B, but as long as you hold C constant, X won’t change all that much.
The case of Philly and Washington seem to bear this out. Clearly, Washington’s players are very, very different from Philadelphia’s. It’s hard to quantify exactly how, but I think in terms of penalty killing, we can all agree that Pronger>Green (or Schultz, or Poti, or whomever), and that Richards>Steckel (or Laich, or Backis, or whomever). Now, I know that the PK is much more than just two guys, but my point is simply to show that the forwards and defense are quite different, yet the PK result is the same. What’s the constant? Mediocre goaltending.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Good Lord I wish I'd found this earlier
NHL.com breaks down Sv % for special teams.
2009-10:
Emery PK Sv % = .821
Bouch PK Sv % = .792
2008-9
Biron PK Sv % = .899
Niitty PK SV % = .861
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
That still doesn’t take into consideration quality of chances. There’s a lot of interplay going on here and it’s not fair to just look at the end result (the goalie stats) when clearly the forwards are not living up to last year’s performance. All of those goalie stats are mediocre at best, but last year PHI still managed to have one of the best PKs in the league. This year they aren’t overcoming that. It’s not just on the netminders. Again, would Stevens have a job if Biron were still in net?
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
It’s not exactly like their change in goaltending was a significant downgrade. The goalie stats were better last year. But the team also played significantly better in front of them.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 16, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
It’s completely unrealistic to expect that a team’s performance is going to stay the same as long as the personnel is the same. That’s just not how hockey works. They are also missing Knuble and Gagne, Timonen is a year older, they are now getting a longer taste of their Upshall for Carcillo swap, and Carter and Richards haven’t taken the next step as expected.
As far as adding Pronger, sure it looks like it has to help a ton on paper, but games aren’t played on paper. Who knows how well a team will adjust to integrating such a prominent player and personality on the ice and in the locker room?
The change in goalie stats isn’t nearly large enough to explain such underachievement and ignore these other explanations, even if you can’t prove it with stats.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 16, 2009 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
Losing Knuble and Gagne hurts, and Timmonen is indeed a year older. The biggest blow is probably the fact that Betts has been out with an injury, though. Upshall really didn’t kill penalties. I also think it’s possible that Lappy has lost a step or two. However, you’ve got to balance that against the fact that Coburn and Parent are a year more experienced, as are Carter and Richards.
As far as the Pronger argument, you’re right. I can’t definitively prove that he’s had a positive impact, nor can you prove that he’s had a negative one. However, what I can show statistically, is that their goalies are demonstrably worse than last year.
Ultimately, it could be any number of factors (like I said, it’s not just 2+2=4, despite my equation above), but when there’s clear statistical evidence pointing to one thing, it seems a tad foolish to hypothesize other, more complex explantions.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Betts wasn’t on PHI last year so I don’t see how his injury hurts their PK this year. He would surely help the PK, but his injury doesn’t explain the drop in effectiveness. Same goes for Lappy; even if he lost a step he wasn’t part of the solid PK last year.
Despite Carter and Richards being more experienced, they are both worse this year.
The goalies are demonstrably worse because the end result is demonstrably worse. Correlation does not equal causation. Goalie stats are the end result, but there are a lot of inputs that go into that and it’s not fair to just judge the goalies based on those numbers. And again, the goalie numbers last year were below average, so why were the Flyers able to overcome that last year, but not this year?
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 1:44 AM EST up reply actions
The goalies are demonstrably worse because the end result is demonstrably worse. Correlation does not equal causation.
I realize it’s late, but you’re aware of how ridiculous this sounds?
I think I understand what you’re getting at, and I’ve tried to make my caveats clear. Yes, Richards and Carter might not be having great years, but I have a hard time imagining just how bad they’d have to be in order to reduce their goalies’ save percentage on the PK by over 7% across the board. Losing Betts hurts because I think the intention was to have him kill lots of penalties – and his ice time prior to the injury bears that out.
The fact is, the Flyers are outshooting their opponents (which they didn’t do last year), and their goalies couldn’t stop a beach ball on the PK. Yes, perhaps the Flyers PKers are allowing “better chances,” but since that’s a pretty subjective measurement that would require me to watch every Flyers game – I just can’t comment on it. Perhaps this is all down to “chemistry” and Pronger hasn’t jelled, and Richards is sucking (although nobody should ever expect him or Carter to repeat their shorthanded goal totals from last year – that shit was ridiculous), and what have you.
Still, Emery and Boucher are putting up Sv s that are 7 lower across the board than the guys they replaced. Until you can show me evidence of team chemistry, or define the quality of a chance objectively, etc, it’s the best explanation there is.
As regards your Emery-Stevens question: if Emery were playing as well as. . . oh, I dunno – Antero Niittymaki (.921 Sv % and 2.43 GAA), I think Stevens still has his job.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
It’s not ridiculous. When things go bad, it shows up on the goalie’s stat line. PHI has a total of 5 shorthanded points so far this season. Richards has 1 g and 1 a. Carter has 1 g. Kimmo has 1 g and 1 a. How is that the goalie’s fault? Does that not tell you that their studs are playing demonstrably worse? Coming from the most potent PK unit last year that’s a huge drop off. So what if they can’t be expected to repeat that performance, it’s a pretty clear indication that they aren’t playing as well on the PK as they were last year. Who cares if it was anomalous, it definitively shows that other players aren’t playing as well either. But you want to look at the simplistic G-O-A-L-T-E-N-D-I-N-G because it’s easy to digest. I expect more from you; normally you look deeper and eschew the easy to digest numbers.
You admit that there is other stuff going on, then hide behind the fact that it’s difficult to quantify and just rest on your goaltending meme. Again, the numbers weren’t even good last year, so there has to be more going on. Their goaltending didn’t carry their PK unit last year; their skaters did. Their goaltending shouldn’t be expected to carry the PK unit this year, the skaters should.
How often have you watched the Caps out-shoot teams by lobbing shots from the perimeter but giving up high quality chances against. I don’t know if that’s what’s happening in PHI, but I do know that it’s a plausible explanation, and given what I have seen from them they do give up a shitload of high quality chances. In that nightmare game against MON when they gave up like 13 shots against but let in 3 goals, all 3 goals against were on 2 on 1s or other breakdowns that you can’t expect the goalie to help you out on. I specifically remember the entire NHL on the Fly crew saying the same thing. If you look at the result, i.e. the goalie’s stat line, you’d think “man Boucher shit the bed” but if you watch the game you think “man, PHI really sold out Boucher, sucks for him.”
Nittymaki has a good stat line, but he’s not even the true number 1 there, and that’s not the kind of goaltending PHI got while Stevens did keep his job. Sure, if they had Vezina caliber numbers Stevens might have a job, but he kept his job for a couple years with average numbers. I don’t see how you ignore the myriad of other issues the PHI are having with their skaters just because the Sv% jumps out and is so easy to latch on to.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
I was implying that that specific statement was ridiculous. You were making the assertion that I was confusing correlation with causation, then making a backwards correlation=causation argument.
Shorthanded goals, while neat and helpful, aren’t necessarily a corollary of a PK unit’s ability to keep the puck out of their own net. For example, Phi led the league last year with 16 SH goals, but was only 6th in PK percentage. Even more tellingly, ATL was second in shorties with 13, but had an absolutely awful PK at 76%. They were second in shorties, but 29th in PK. SH goals do not equal PK prowess; all they mean is that you’ve got forwards on the PK that can score.
I admit that there are other things going on, but then surmise (rightfully) that we can’t prove any of those “other things” in any kind of objective manner. Meanwhile, there is pretty clear objective evidence to suggest that Philadelphia’s goaltenders have been under-performing on the PK relative to last year. Your example of the Montreal game may be perfectly valid, but that’s one game out of 32, so it’s hardly an adequate sampling.
Yes, I’ve watched teams outshoot their opponents by taking a ton of crappy shots and lose. I’ve also watched teams get outshot by 20 SOG and win. I realize that Sv % isn’t a perfect stat, which is why I’ve gone pretty in-depth on all the other stats in an attempt to find proxies for overall team play (such as 5v5 or 5v4 play, or PIMs – none of which show any serious deviation from last year). I didn’t just latch onto it because it was simple – it’s the simple stat that’s left after culling out all the other alternatives. For example, Phi’s record when outshooting their opponent? 10-11-1. When outshot? 4-4-0. From this, we can infer that, regardless of how the Flyers play on a given night, their goalies pretty much give them the same chance of winning, and that chance isn’t great.
That’s a bit of a logical leap, so let’s look at some teams around the league that might rely on their goalie to bail them out from time-to-time. How about Vancouver? When out-shooting their opponent, they’re 11-10, but when they’re getting out-shot, they’re 8-5. Phoenix, a young, scrappy team with a good goalie: 9-7-2 when outshooting, but 11-2 when outshot. Buffalo, with the stud ’keeper of the year: 8-6-1 when outshooting, but 12-4 when outshot.
Now I realize there’s some correlation/causation here. Oft times, teams that are leading a game will get outshot as their opponents pour on the heat at the end or pull the keeper. But still, the implication is pretty clear – teams (Colorado is another example) that rely on their goaltender to pull them through when they’re not at their best tend to see this split. Teams that are just plain good, like Pittsburgh or Chicago or the Caps don’t see this kind of split – they’re either better when they’re outshooting or they’re equally good.
Still, I think this is a decent, if imperfect proxy for the ability of a goaltender to “steal” games for his team and the frequency with which it happens. From looking at this stat, it seems like neither Emery nor Boucher are called upon to “steal” games very often, nor are they doing it when called upon.
I’m not saying the Flyers don’t have other issues, because they probably do. I’m not saying that the quality of chances or chemistry or anything else is irrelevant, because it’s not. I am saying, however, that those things are immeasurable and that, taking a host of various factors into account, the objective statistic that, to me, carries the most weight is the fact that the Flyers’ goaltenders are putting up atrocious save percentages on the PK, despite facing fewer shots than their counterparts did last year (obviously, without controlling for the quality of said shots).
I don’t think Niittymaki is a great goalie (I used him because his stat line was about what I think Emery or Boucher would have to put up to save Stevens, and because I enjoyed the irony of it), and nor is Biron. But for whatever reasons, they performed much better than Emery and Boucher, particularly on the Penalty Kill. They faced more shots and stopped a greater percentage of them. I think if Philly had got a goaltending performance at least that good this year, they’d likely have a few more wins and Stevens would still have his job.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
This didn’t start with “goaltending is a big factor.” It started with G-O-A-L-T-E-N-D-I-N-G! Sure, they’re goalies aren’t doing great, but they weren’t last year either. They didn’t drop from .920 to .820. They dropped 7%, which is what, a goal every 3 games or so? I don’t see how you can possibly have watched even a single PHI game and not realize that the team is a mess, and it’s not just in net. They haven’t had a stud goalie in over 15 years, and they still don’t. But this year it’s killing them when it wasn’t before? Doesn’t make sense to me.
The way you’re circling the wagons on this G-O-A-L-T-E-N-D-I-N-G argument I might need to start calling you D’ohlander.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
This year, the Flyers’ PK Sv % as a team is .812. Last year, it was .883.
The Flyers have faced 165 shots on the PK this year, and surrendered 31 goals. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that Emery and Boucher put up the same Sv % as Biron and Niittymaki did last year, but faced the same number of shots that they had faced this year on the PK. If that were the case, they would have surrendered 19 goals, rather than 31. (165 shots * .883 = 146 saves, 165-146=19 goals).
12 goals less, just on the PK. Thus far this year, the Flyers have scored 89 goals and given up 93. Subtract 12 goals from that total, and they would have given up just 81. This would leave them with a positive goal differential of +8.
For the sake of comparison, this would leave them tied with Atlanta for the fifth-best goal differential in the Eastern Conference, and in a 3-way tie for 10th overall in the league with Atlanta and Minnesota.
Obviously, goal differential isn’t a perfect proxy for standings position, since LA is leading the Western conference with a +4 rating, while Vancouver is “out of a playoff spot” with a +18 rating. Still, Vancouver didn’t fire its coach, either.
As far as your argument about Philly lacking good goaltending, it’s actually remarkably incorrect. Philly has often managed to get good goaltending during the regular season. Their problem has always been that they rarely have had an outstanding goaltender who shines in the playoffs. Moreover, when they’ve had poor goaltending in the last 15 years, they’ve struggled in the standings. In fact, the correlation is remarkably consistent. The following is a table comparing their record in points to the stats of their #1 goaltender in games played.
00-01: 7th in points – Cechmanek 2.01 GAA, .921 Sv %
01-02: 7th in points – Cechmanek 2.05 GAA, .921 Sv %
02-03: 5th in points – Cechmanek 1.83 GAA, .925 Sv %
03-04: 8th in points – Esche 2.04 GAA, .915 Sv %
05-06: 9th in points – Niitty/Esche 2.97 GAA, .896 Sv % (Avg.)
06-07: 30th in points-Niittymaki 3.38 GAA, .894 Sv %
07-08: 11th in points-Biron 2.59 GAA, .918 Sv %
08-09: 9th in points – Biron 2.76 GAA, .915 Sv %
09-10: 26th in points-Emery 2.83 GAA, .901 Sv %
Of course, this is susceptible to the whole correlation vs. causation argument – did the goalie put up bad stats because he sucked, or because the team sucked? Was Cechmanek really that good, or was the team in front of him that good and the era of hockey that defensive?
Diving slightly deeper into the statistics, two seasons are clearly outliers: 02-03, where they got phenomenal goaltending and were 5th in the league, and 06-07, where they got atrocious goaltending and were 30th in the league. The question is, to what degree did the team cause the goalie to look good, and to what degree did the goalie let the team down?
02-03 is an interesting season in that regard. The Flyers are consistently one of the highest-scoring teams in the league. Year-in and year-out, their Goals-For ranking is higher than their points ranking in the standings by at least a couple of positions. . . except for 02-03. They were 17th in Goals-For, but 2nd in Goals Against, and 5th overall in points. Was this all Cechmanek? Of course not. A huge percentage of this change was because they had Ken Hitchcock as their coach. But what’s really interesting is that Cechmanek’s Save % only changed by .004, or less than half a percentage point, whereas his GAA changed by a full 10.7%. Cechmanek’s performance in Philly was remarkably consistent – he saved around 92% of the shots he faced. When Hitch came in and installed a defense-first system and reduced the number of shots he faced, the Flyers became a great defensive team.
Now, since my argument was about the impact that goalie changes can have, let’s look at the next season, 2003-4. The Flyers are largely the same team. They’ve still got Hitch at the helm and their roster is largely intact, although JR and Desjardins did spend lots of time nursing injuries. Their defense suffered slightly, and they gave up 2092 shots versus 2019 the year before, for a 3.6% increase. However, their goals-against went from 166 in 02-03 to 192 in 03-04, for a 13.5% increase. Is it perhaps possible to infer that this might have something to do with the fact that they replaced 58 games of Cechmanek and his consistent .920 save % with 42 games of Robert Esche at .915 and Jeff Hackett (27 games at .905)?
Bringing it into the present-day, the Flyers have given up 28.1 shots/game this year, versus 32.5 shots/game last year, for a decrease of 13.5%, yet their goals against/game has increased from 2.83/game to 2.91/game for an increase of 2.83%. As a team, their Sv % has gone from .913 to .896, or a decrease of 1.86%, which, although it doesn’t sound like much, is actually quite substantial when you’re talking about 2688 shots against last year.
All that being said, the Flyers are infamous for spending lots of money on forwards, a little less on their defense, and then scrimping on goalies. Sometimes, they find a diamond in the rough like Cechmanek and it works out. Other times, they get guys like Ray Emery, and it doesn’t work out.
If you want to create a strawman and take my “G-O-A-L-T-E-N-D-I-N-G” comment out of context, and stubbornly ignore all of my other comments in this entire thread where I acknowledge that other factors can be important, but are difficult to measure, be my guest Fehrly Unbalanced. And if you’ve actually got an argument with any kind of evidence other than, “the guys on NHL On the Fly said that Richards sucks this year,” or hyperbolic statements about stud goaltenders and standings that don’t stand up to even 5 minutes’ worth of scrutiny on the internet, please feel free to share.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
What would be really cool is if someone could come up with a program that could go through old NHL.com shot charts from games and determine where the highest percentage of goals were scored from, then figure out a way to lay that over a shot chart game-by-game so that we could determine the quality of shots in some kind of objective fashion. Sadly, I can’t program.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
That would be an interesting metric but it doesn’t take stick/body positioning, speed, or goalie sightlines, all of which are as least as important to where the shot was taken in the zone.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 17, 2009 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
True, but it’s a start. It’s better than what we’re working with now and it at least gives you an idea of how many shots are coming from quality areas.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Building on that idea, you could segregate the shots taken by category of ice situation: a separate category for all the flavors of PP, then a category for ES. I’d be interested to know how much shooting percentage by zone varied in each situation.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 17, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Your nuanced position didn’t come out until you were challenged on your goaltending assertion. Sure, now you have highlighted a lot of the other subtle points that other people first identified (shot quality, systems, etc.) but that wasn’t your original point. Feel free to coopt it as your own, though.
Maybe you don’t watch any PHI hockey. I don’t know. But if you do watch any PHI hockey and can’t see that there is something seriously wrong with that team besides just the goalie then I don’t know what to say. I know you have a better eye for talent and hockey than that, so maybe you really are just not watching.
Sure, I’m making up the Richards stuff. PHI fans haven’t been knocking him, and he’ll be another Selke front-runner.
Also, I didn’t cite OTF for “Richards sucks.” I cited OTF for “Boucher got hung out to dry when he let in 3 goals on 13 or 15 shots.” The people that watched the game didn’t look at the final stat line and conclude that Boucher let them down; though that’s exactly what your analysis would conclude.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
Second assertion, slightly more nuanced, but ignoring the fact that Carter and Richards are both having worse years.
And from there you get progressively more nuanced but only as a result of being challenged. You make token statements acknowledging the scorers slumping and Gagne being hurt, but seem to continue to want to focus on the fact that Emery sucks, as if they were getting anything better than mediocre goaltending the last two years when they were good.
19 goals is .59 goals per game, definitely worse than my guess of about one every three games. But this year the Flyers are only giving up 2.94 goals per game, last year they gave up 2.90 (less than .04 goals a game difference when you consider rounding). This year they are scoring 2.84 per game, last year it was 3.22. To be fair, the GA isn’t limited to just the PK, but it does demonstrate that in the big picture the skaters are failing worse than the goalies, IMO. If the skaters were producing like they did last year, the decrease in goalie stats wouldn’t really matter, they’d still be winning.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
This is exactly what I was saying earlier about the drop in goalie stats not being nearly large enough to explain the drop the Flyers have experienced. A slight drop in save percentage doesn’t equate to a 20 point drop in the standings (which the Flyers are on pace for).
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 17, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Damnit
I just lost this whole post. Ass.
Anyhow, I was double-responding. My initial reaction was hyperbolic. Criticize me for that if you like. “Dear Kettle, You’re Black. V/R, Mr. Pot.” People challenged, asked questions. My response was to say that the goaltending is the major observable difference between this year and last year, and I’ve been saying that pretty consistently.
With regard to the additional nuance, I’m not blindly stubborn – if you guys watch lots of Flyer hockey and think that there’s more to it than goaltending, I’m willing to accept that hypothesis as potentially valid, and I don’t think you, or anyone else is “making it up.” Ultimately, that’s how discussions lead to new knowledge, I say something. You counter. I incorporate your counter and rebut. And so on. If we just sat here and made hyperbolic statements all day, it would be Caps Insider lame.
After the Caps, Avs, and cycling, I just don’t have time to watch the Flyers regularly. I’ve seen probably 5 games of theirs. In each and every one, I’ve watched their goaltender give up at least one softie, and usually two. You agreed with me earlier that poor goaltending can affect the psyche of a team, so if you’re going to assert that they’re “a mess,” I’m going to counter with: maybe they’re a mess because they don’t trust their goalie…
For example, do you remember how much worse the Caps used to play in front of Olie during his last year here? In part, that’s because Olie was awful by then, but in part it was because the players in front of him didn’t trust him to do his job whatsoever. Instead of letting him see shots and clearing rebounds/tying up sticks, they were trying to force turnovers and block every shot, with the predictable result being that they screened him a lot. They played tentatively, and as a result, they usually played like crap.
However, my larger point still remains – maybe the Flyers are playing poorly in front of their keepers, but their keepers are still playing poorly, and their keepers represented a major amount of personnel turnover from last year to this year.
Your point about the scoring is well-taken. The Flyers haven’t been scoring as much, and this is surely responsible, in part, for their decline. However, teams can win either by keeping the puck out of the net, or by putting it in. This offseason, the Flyers traded offense for defense (Lupul for Pronger) and let Knuble walk in favor of guys like Betts and Laperriere. At the same time, they believed that Emery and Boucher would be an upgrade over their goaltending tandem from last year.
Clearly, their strategy flopped, but why? Well, looking at their 5v5 and 5v4 numbers, they don’t look much different than last year. Their PP is down by a percent which, while significant, isn’t the sole reason behind their issues. The only MAJOR difference is their PK, and when you look at their PK, one huge stat sticks out: the eight percent decline in their team save percentage.
There might be one other significant stat that’s affecting their record, but not their PK, and I’ll let you figure out what that one is, but it should be pretty clear by now. :)
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
I agree on the development of knowledge, challenging, etc. It’s what makes The Rink great.
I also still agree that the goaltending can hurt the team, and the Flyers have demonstrably worse goaltending this year. My whole point was that it isn’t the sole, or even main reason they suck. I think they have the talent on paper to overcome some shoddy goaltending, and they just aren’t doing it.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I thought it was obvious. Average age.
And literally as we are arguing this, Chris Pronger gets the puck on his stick in front of the net and gives it right to Crosby who hammers it home. Nice job by the Norris winner.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmmm
I assumed you meant PP but their PP this year and last year is basically identical.
I give…
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
My Favorite
Shooting . This year they’re at 8.8. Last year: 10.6%.
Sounds small, but it’s actually huge, given the number of shots in a game.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
I should have known. You’re all over that stat. I usually think of it in terms of individuals (I bet Carter is a major culprit) but it makes sense for a team as well. Good eye.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
I agree on the development of knowledge, challenging, etc. It’s what makes The Rink great.
The Rink is one of the only places on the Internet that successfully and regularly practices the Socratic Method. Usually, no one gets butt-hurt about it, either.
The give-and-take and refining of arguments from a sweeping, but flawed, generalization to a specific theory ready for application is definitely part of what makes Japers’ the best hockey blog around.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 17, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure he was talking to me and D’ohboy.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 18, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
"Dear Kettle, You’re Black. V/R, Mr. Pot."
Can Mr. Pot make brownies in a pot?
Gould Old Days is dronk.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 18, 2009 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
The big flaw is that Save% is NOT an objective statistic when it comes to assigning blame for why goals are going in. It is objective in the sense that it tells you exactly what percentage of shots are going in, but not why the shots are going in. Like all other goalie stats, save percentage is something that is affected by both team play and goalie play. Thus, a lower save % is not clear, objective evidence that the goalies (and not the rest of the players) are letting the team down.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 17, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
Quick: you’re the GM of an NHL franchise and you have to make a choice between two goalies with no other information than the following:
Goalie A) .925 Sv% and 2.75 GAA
Goalie B) .905 Sv% and 2.15 GAA
Which would you take?
Of course, it’s a trick question, because we’d all take Goalie A – save percentage, while flawed, is still a better measurement of the goalie’s contribution than GAA. It’s the difference between Luongo in 2003-4 and Kiprusoff in 2003-4: one played behind a good team, the other played behind the Panthers. Both put up Sv% over .930, but one had a GAA of 2.43, and the other 1.69.
(Side Note) Holy fuck the NHL was boring pre-lockout.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
So would you rather watch 2002-03 NHL hockey or 1984-85 hockey?
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
Not really. But I know neither of us think the quality of 84-85 hockey was that great either. But at least it was bad defensively so there was still skill and speed.
That’s kind of how I view the CHL. They have a lot of offensive skill but the depth isn’t there and the defensive skill isn’t there so there are more breakdowns and more goals. Makes it real fun to watch. I love that NHLN shows the Memorial Cup now.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
I’d rather watch 8-7 firewagon hockey than the trap any day of the week. God how I loathe the trap.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
You know I agree. It was a mostly rhetorical question that had a side-point of highlighting the lack of quality hockey in the 80s as well. This is the golden age of hockey, IMO.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
It’s like every year there are at least 5 rookies that come in and are just amazing. The constant influx of young talent is going to serve this league well for ages.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
So would you rather watch 2002-03 NHL hockey or 1984-85 hockey?
I’d pay good money to see Bobby Gould again
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 18, 2009 1:22 AM EST up reply actions
Sure, save percentage is a better stat to gauge a goalie’s contribution than is GAA. But that doesn’t make it perfect and it doesn’t make your interpretation of the stat any more “objective” than the claims that the team is playing much more poorly in front of the goalies. It is tougher to put together a higher save percentage when the team is playing like crap in front of you.
I also think your Kipper/Luongo point highlights another flaw in save percentage, in that both of those goalies had equal save percentages, but one was clearly more important for their team and had a much more difficult job. Putting up a .930 save % behind Florida’s D that year was FAR more impressive and than putting up the same number behind Calgary’s D. In my mind Luongo was the best goalie in the league that year (I don’t care about the life time achievement award they gave to Brodeur) and was easily better than Kiprusoff. But you wouldn’t know that looking at just save percentage, and that’s why GMs use a lot more than just stats when scouting the performance of goalies/skaters/teams.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 17, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps you missed me saying this:
I realize that Sv % isn’t a perfect stat, which is why I’ve gone pretty in-depth on all the other stats in an attempt to find proxies for overall team play (such as 5v5 or 5v4 play, or PIMs – none of which show any serious deviation from last year).
As for the objectivity of save %:
ob·jec·tive:
3.
a. Uninfluenced by emotions or personal prejudices
b. Based on observable phenomena; presented factually: as in “he gave up 2 goals on 25 shots: he saved 92-percent of the shots against him.”
As opposed to subjective: “I think the Flyers look like crap on the PK,” or “That would have been a tough save.”
Objective doesn’t mean perfect, and I went to great pains to point that out and hedge against the flaws of the statistics by putting them in context. All it means is that we can observe how many shots are taken, and how many goals are scored in a way that is almost entirely devoid of individual interpretation.
To the best of my knowledge, there is no superior objective statistic for judging goaltender play than save %, and you’re right, that’s why they have scouts. If I had the time to scout the Flyers, I might be able to give you an even more nuanced and accurate answer about what ails them.
But from my vantage point of someone who’s seen them play maybe 5 times or so, and has access to a crapload of statistics, it seems to me that their goaltenders haven’t been playing well this year, particularly on the PK.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
I’d also point out that even a casual stroll through BSH will show you two things:
First, that MarioD is my Huckleberry.
Second, that one of the overwhelming sentiments of late has been that PHI sucks, but not Boucher, and that the team is hanging him out to dry.
If ever there was a time for Travis, or Ben, or Geoff to lurk their way through here…
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 17, 2009 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
Let me just throw in that, from watching some Philly games this year, the entire team is playing far worse than they did last year. They’re playing much worse offensively and much worse defensively. And the poor defense is leading to more goals against the goalies.
I think the dropoff is equal across the roster, including the goalies, but also including the position players, but also including the goalies. They’ve just gotten worse, top to bottom, left to right, Pronger to Prongee.
I’m really enjoying it.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 18, 2009 1:25 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s as may be, but I think that most hockey fans, even very savvy ones, vastly underestimate just how important goaltending is in hockey. I think part of the problem is that many Americans look at hockey metaphorically – that is to say they understand it via its analogues to other sports. In that manner, the goalie becomes equated with the pitcher, or the quarterback, or even the goalkeeper in soccer. But the truth is, not a single one of those players even comes close to approximating the importance of the hockey goalie. A pitcher or a quarterback is only on the field half of the time – a hockey goalie plays all 60 minutes. A soccer goalkeeper plays all 90 minutes, but faces far, far fewer shots, and is therefore exposed to less occasions for potential failure.
There’s a reason most goalies used to have ulcers, drinking problems and other psychological issues – the stress of the position is overwhelming, given how much of a team’s success rides on that one single player.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
I agree with all of this, just want to point out that the guy you’ve been arguing with is acutely aware of the importance of a goalie, so this point doesn’t necessarily directly apply to our back and forth (though it may help some of the lurkers that are following our battles without jumping in).
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 18, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. That wasn’t really aimed at you or GOD, which I might not have made obvious at 3am. :)
It was just a point that occurred to me and I thought it ought to be shared.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
It’s all good. I enjoy the battles, just trying to keep things clear.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 18, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Bullshit!
You’re just going to incentivize word filling.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 18, 2009 8:05 PM EST up reply actions
I know what objective means, and I called your interpretation of the stat subjective, not the stat itself. It is an objective fact that the save percentage is down. It is a subjective interpretation of that fact to say that it is down because the goalies suck and not because of the team in front of them.
I also don’t know why you are pushing this point so hard when you don’t watch the Flyers. Looking at stats alone never gives anyone a better look at a team than watching how those stats are accumulated in the context of games.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 18, 2009 2:52 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t say: I don’t watch the Flyers. I said: I’ve watched the Flyers about 5 times, which is roughly 1/6 of their games. Probably not enough to form a really informed opinion based on observation, though. How many times have you watched them? (Not snarky, honest question.)
Still, in every game I’ve watched, their goalies have surrendered at least one soft goal. Every time. Maybe that’s just the sample size. Maybe not.
I think your last sentence, combined with my response to G.O.D. above (and my general desire to converse with people, since I’m working from home all week) are why I’m pushing this so hard. I like using statistics. I think they’re a great tool for exposing what our eyes can’t see, or what we can’t comprehend in isolation.
Still, I’ll agree with you that stats are not the be all-end all. They’re a tool, and they’re best when put in context. I understand your issues with Sv %, and share them to a great degree. That’s why I’ve put this particular statistic in a great deal of context.
I also reflexively bristle at arguments based on suggestion, innuendo and non-disprovable assertions. Throughout this, I’ve felt the burden of proof was on me, since I’m using a somewhat flawed statistic, but the rejoinders have largely been: “You don’t know how bad they’re playing, because you don’t watch.” I feel like this line of reasoning really isn’t conducive to learning anything, because it’s neither provable, nor disprovable. It’s a judgment call. It’s subjective.
For what it’s worth, I’ve seen enough of the highlights of Philly’s games (or lowlights, from their perspective), as well as the breakdowns on NHLOTF to have been able to spot some of their bad tendencies. In one segment, they telestrated how Philadelphia’s forwards, Carter and Richards in particular, were dropping far too low in the defensive zone, thereby allowing the opposition’s point men far too much time and space. Forwards drop too low in the defensive zone for two reasons. One: they don’t trust their defensemen. Two: they don’t trust their keeper. I find option one somewhat implausible. Philly’s only major changes on the backline this year have been the addition of Pronger, the increased playing time for Parent and the subtraction of Alberts. Now, perhaps Philly’s forwards suddenly don’t trust their D because they’ve been playing like crap. It’s totally possible. I find it somewhat unlikely given their track record though.
On the other hand, Philly has two brand-new goalies who haven’t been playing spectacularly. Is it not also possible that the Flyers’ forwards don’t trust them, and are trying too hard in the defensive zone?
For me, saying I think the Flyers’ goalies are their main issue because their play 5v5 and 5v4 hasn’t slipped much relative to last year, but their PK is suddenly terrible and their keepers’ PK Sv % is 8-percent worse than last year is decent context. Adding in the fact that the Flyers acquired one of the greatest defensive-defensemen of our generation, and he leads the team in PK ice time/game, is yet another piece of context.
You’re creating context with your eyes and saying that the Flyers are playing poorly as a team. The context I’ve seen with my eyes (in particular their game against the Avs) says that their goalies give up soft goals with frequency. I’m also of the opinion that Emery and Boucher just aren’t all that good. I took those subjective observations and then found statistics to support them, which, thus far, you haven’t done.
There is one other statistic that explains some of their issues: a 17% team-wide drop in shooting percentage. As a team, they’re squeezing the epoxy out of their composites right now.
Still, putting it in context, this doesn’t seem to be a huge issue, since their PP and even-strength numbers are almost exactly what they were last year. Part of it, as I discussed with F&B above, is likely down to Carter and Richards not scoring on as many of their shorthanded chances.
Still, I’d like to point out that I figured that out because F&B pointed out the discrepancy in their goals-for this year. I thought it odd, since they were outshooting their opponents by so much, and their 5v5 GF/GA ratio and PP% were so similar to last year.
So now, it seems we’ve got a bit better thesis: the Flyers are playing poorly, in part because their goalies are performing poorly on the PK, and in part because they’re not burying their shorthanded chances at the same rate as last year.
I think that’s a hell of a lot better answer than, “they’re just playing badly.”
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Forwards drop too low in the defensive zone for two reasons. One: they don’t trust their defensemen. Two: they don’t trust their keeper.
Three: they are actually Centers used to playing down low but have been moved to wing.
Three is exacerbated when you have changing systems.
I think you mischaracterize the argument against you. It’s not just “you don’t know because you don’t watch.” But it’s about time this conversation takes a dirt nap.
PHI is ridiculously unorganized in all zones and not playing like a team. The goalies sure aren’t helping, but this qualitatively a different team from the last two years no matter how it looks on paper.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 18, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
That is a good point. With Regard to Carter and Richards, though, they didn’t show this tendency in the past (at least not that I noticed), and they’re often playing center anyhow. They’ve both been in the league long enough to have broken this habit, so I think something else must be going on.
Yeah, the convo needs to end before we slam against the margin again.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Well that, and Richards and Carter are having worse years than last year, and Gagne is gone. Is their goaltending really that much worse this year? Not like it was great last year.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Gagne is so injury prone that him not being in the lineup no longer hurts a team. A healthy Gagne is just an extra bonus.
And I agree goalies aren’t their problem (yet). They just aren’t scoring the way they should, with or without Gagne.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 16, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
January 1st, 2010. The one day in all of 2010 I am rooting for the Bruins.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
THN Interview with Ovi
Don’t know if anyone’s announced this — supposed to be working, so I haven’t had time to read comments above. Go to the hockeynews.com for a video interview in two parts, just posted this afternoon. It’s really nice, but I wish the media would come up with some new and better questions.
None that I’ve seen.
Colorado doesn’t play again until Saturday so this probably isn’t a pressing matter even if it wasn’t against the Caps.
Ted Leonsis Used to Recommend: http://capsnut.blogspot.com/
Everybody Wang Chung......
Please load brain before shooting off mouth.â„¢
Has to be before the team’s next game, right?
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Sorry, I should have phrased that better. What I was getting at was, why would they wait to hand down a verdict just because the team doesn’t play for a few days?
Oh, I figure the answer to that is simply because they can. And it’s easier to make decisions when you’re not up against a clock.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Yeah, they’ve said on the radio before that there’s no rush when a team doesn’t play again for a few days, but they have to make a decision before the club’s next game.
They being Daley and Bettman.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
You know, now that I think of it, I wouldn’t mind seeing a Rags – Isles or Rags – Devils Winter Classic.
"It's like water. You want to drink it. You will drink it."
by Steck It Out on Dec 16, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
I’d vastly prefer the Caps over the Isles or Devils…
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 16, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
As would I, but if there’s another one of those “Caps don’t get ratings” BS arguments, those two matchups would be my alternatives.
"It's like water. You want to drink it. You will drink it."
by Steck It Out on Dec 16, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s been pretty much presumed, on a level that surpasses even the presumption surrounding the Caps in THIS year’s Classic, that the next matchup would be Caps vs Rangers and Yankee Stadium. This may throw another wrench in that.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 16, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Making a pre out of u and me there.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Then you bring the discussion back to how it can be done here. I keep thinking that the hurdle is the possibility of rain making crap out of the ice (as opposed to man-made issues at Verizon), but if they can deal with that, why not DC? It really should be the Caps next year, and I don’t care if it’s the Rangers or some other team.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
I think next year it should be Western teams. It should be the Caps in 2012.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Dec 16, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think there’s going to be one large impediment to actually having the game in a western city — time zone. If the game has to be played at 1:00 (and I’ll bet that’s pretty solid), that would mean playing at 10:00 am out west.
Also, the last time I looked, Chicago and Detroit are in the Western Conference, so it hasn’t been totally ignored.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
Who exactly in the Western Conference do you propose that could possibly make sense ratings and weather-wise? Detroit and Chicago have already played. Minnesota and whoever they try to call a natural rival to play against them will draw no one to a TV set. Calgary and Vancouver don’t get NBC. Western Conference makes no sense next year.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 16, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
NBC have said they wanted traditional markets. With the problems Colorado is having filling a venue for a first-place team…
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 16, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Also, I hate to say this, but if they want “traditional” markets, that means the Caps are out, too.
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Traditional markets to host, not necessarily to play.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 16, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Western Conference vs Eastern Conference.. pretty easy.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
First of all, the OP I was responding to said “Western teams”. Second, I think the aim is to have teams that are at least somewhat rivals play in this game. Sure, Pittsburgh-Buffalo doesn’t exactly meet that, but at least they play each other four times a year. Third, unless it’s an Eastern team (which completely defeats the purpose of letting the West have the Classic), you still have to ask who hosts.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 16, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Vancouver and Tampa are bitter rivals.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Hey, and they can play the game in Kansas City!
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 16, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions
No Devilzzzz
This is supposed to promote the game in America. Not reaffirm why most Americans think it’s boring.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just think this picture is awesome.
Hockey players aren't like other people. Witt after being hit by a car:
I’m okay. No big deal...I’ve got to go play some hockey. I’m a hockey player.
He’s having an awesome year. Underrated.
"It's like water. You want to drink it. You will drink it."
by Steck It Out on Dec 16, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, everybody should watch a Kings game or two. Kid’s great.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
What is it? Not showing up for me.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Maxim Ouellet
I haven’t seen that name in a while. Jesus.
by turnituptoeleven on Dec 16, 2009 3:16 PM EST reply actions
I remember how excited I was when we traded Adam Oates’ decaying corpse for him. I was convinced we had just flat-out stolen him from the Flyers (although I think we did draft Alexander Semin with one of the picks we got with that trade).
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
Me too. Though we still did get 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks for him in addition to Ouellet.
The Caps did take Semin in the first round of the 2002 entry draft (along with Eminger and Gordon), but there were some other machinations I think (including a trade of picks with Dallas) that is making it hard to figure out which pick the Caps actually used on Semin.
Becca H is/was the author of the DC Caps Chick/View From the Cheap Seats blog.
When she first came over, she posted under the name “CapsChick”.
I think to avoid confusion (speculation on my part) she changed her handle to avoid confusion with Caps_Chick, above, who is a regular old poster like you and me.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Gotcha. I was seein’ double for a sec. Definitely approve of her avatar though. :)
(As an aside, I once dated a girl back in Seattle who had that symbol in gold as a nose piercing. Classy girl. Had most of the T-Birds on speed dial. Including Brooks. To quote Reg Dunlop – dynamite broad.)
Grand Rapids A-Go-Go
Nylander on NHL Home Ice
Stuff he said:
Happy to be playing.
It’s just business. Caps taking care of the situation in a good way. [definitely doesn’t sound upset]
There was discussion with KHL teams, but AHL was the best choice.
Holding out hope to play in NHL later this season if he can get back to playing like he’s capable of. “Small chance, you never know.”
He doubts he is in consideration for Team Sweden. He wouldn’t put himself on the team.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Interesting stuff. Now that he’s gone, I am definitely a little more appreciative of how he handled himself during the process.
Anyone else feel some kind of catharsis at Grand Rapids being the team to bail the Caps out, given that we were tortured as Caps fans by guys who shouldn’t have been in the NHL but were imported from Grand Rapids anyway in 2002-03 (Cassidy, Doig, Kwiatkowski)?
Aww…watching Ovie eat his ice cream cone while Ken Campbell has him pinned to the wall in The Hockey News video.
Surely there’s more to “a day in Ovie’s life” than interviews in the VC press box.
Surely?
ALEX, FЯEE
Watching PTI, and it starts out with them supporting Bruce on the hit on Green last night. Then, I start banging my head. I love Kornheiser and Wilbon, but they are relying on staff that haven’t the foggiest idea about the game (if you think the show is ad libbed, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you). I’d rather they not discuss it at all, than get it wrong. They equate goonery with fighting, and as I see Nate has pointed out in a tweet, don’t even bother to check Boudreau’s playing career. I’ll bet they don’t get this stuff wrong with basketball and football.
"The Caps fan doesn't say, 'is the glass half full' or 'is the glass half empty'. He wonders when the glass is going to spill."
PTI is a pretty awesome show, and Kornheiser and Wilbon, while annoying when separated, have a rapport that makes that show fun to watch.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
has anyone seen this behind-the-scenes special of the backstrom draft pick before? found it through someone on twitter – thought it was really cool :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiP9E60nuFo
"No Brooks Laich, no win. Know Brooks Laich, know win."
darn it! every time someone posts this i end up watching the entire thing over again. :)
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 16, 2009 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
I never knew Pittsburgh could have had Jack Johnson for the #2 pick. Wonder if they’d trade Staal for him now.
I’d say their SC rings shine far too brightly for them to answer that question.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 16, 2009 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
first time i’ve noticed it: at the 2:15 mark of the second clip, the caps’ first round projection can be seen pretty clearly on the white board. this is during the preliminary stages of GMGM’s calls, but it seems to support the caps’ public stance that backstrom was their center of choice (at least over toews).
the projection went: (1) EJohnson to STL, (2) JStaal to PIT, (3) PKessel to CHI, (4) NBackstrom to WAS, (5) JToews to BOS.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 16, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
and of course in clip #3, GMGM first tells his son backstrom is better than staal and then refuses an extra pick in exchange for kessel. so i’m assuming the “one of our two players” talk referred to backstrom then toews?
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 16, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
I think he was trying to tell Boston that we could take either one of Kessel or Backstrom, so if Boston wanted to ensure that they got their man, they could trade up. Basically GMGM wanted Boston to say “we prefer Kessel”, then get them to give up the 37th pick when we were going to take Backstrom anyway. Maybe you’re referring to a different part of the video, apologies if so.
The funniest part of the video is that everyone just calls Backstrom “The Swede”.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 16, 2009 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
right, i understood completely…i just meant to say that GMGM could have had kessel + a pick, so he must have significantly preferred backstrom (as did boston). so the whiteboard says he preferred backstrom to toews, the discussion with his grandson says he preferred backstrom to staal, and the pick itself (as well as the talks with boston’s GM) says he preferred backstrom to kessel. GMGM’s not lying when he says publicly that the caps “got their man.”
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 16, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
It’s very entertaining how we see other GMs giving him the information he wants, and never really see him tipping his hand. Don’t play poker with GMGM.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Dec 16, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions
Glad we have Backstrom rather than Kessel. I have nothing against Kessel personally but given his health issues over the years (between cancer and his off season surgery), it’s a good thing we picked Nicky instead.
(Okay, I’ll admit some of my favorite Caps are injury prone, like Fehr and Semin and Flash)
Rocking the Red since 1975
I hadn’t, thank you for the find.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Dec 16, 2009 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
This is the first time I’ve seen this special and it is fantastic. It’s great seeing how GMGM deals with some of the other GMs. His “debate” back at the table after he gets the 5 and 37 offer for Backstrom is classic. “I just wanna make it look like we’re doing something”.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 16, 2009 11:35 PM EST up reply actions
That's the first time you've seen it?
And here I thought you were a true fan.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 16, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
Just a quick thank you
I haven’t ever posted on here before, but I wanted to say thanks for the overwhelming support on Mr. Erskine’s new nickname. I thought it was a fun idea, and I figured you fine readers over here would enjoy it. My wife and I have been calling him that for a while, and it’s nice to see that we aren’t crazy when we see the resemblance.
Fight For Old D.C. Admin
Love my Hokies, Caps, Redskins, Wizards and Nats.
Hhhhhottt pocketttttt
My only issue is that I have the urge to imitate Gaffigan whenever I see a picture of Erskine now. “I thought he was done with the bacon jokes.”
by mercurialwinger on Dec 16, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
82 | 54 | 15 | 13 | 121 |
|
Atlanta
|
82 | 35 | 34 | 13 | 83 |
|
Carolina
|
82 | 35 | 37 | 10 | 80 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
82 | 34 | 36 | 12 | 80 |
|
Florida
|
82 | 32 | 37 | 13 | 77 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
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