Playing with fire on the PK
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 11, 2009 1:14 AM EST
37 comments
Back by popular demand, I'm busting out the MS Paint! This time let's take a look at the Caps' weakest unit, the PK. In order to do this I'm going to demonstrate how the Caps approach their PK, demonstrate the flaws, and compare the approach to the San Jose Sharks' PK unit. Why the Sharks? Because they are deep with scoring threats, including some serious elite talent at the top, capable of rolling out three lines that can hurt you, and they have a solid checking fourth line that gives them huge contributions on the PK. In other words, they are built almost exactly like the Caps. Oh, and they are the top PK unit in the league.
Before we get to the video let me outline what I see as the keys to a successful PK, keep these in mind as you watch the following videos. The three most important things to a successful PK are skating, hockey sense, and winning battles. If I was going to add a fourth I'd say clearing the zone whenever you get the puck cleanly on your stick, but it seems obvious at the NHL level. It's basically a rule on the PK that anytime the PP team loses control of the puck you immediately attack, but watch for the difference in how the two teams treat players with clear control. This analysis focuses pretty heavily on the forwards because they are the guys that make a PK run. The D have less ice to cover and still have their basic same responsibilities (net and corners) though the way they cover and react is most certainly different.
Let's take a look at the Sharks PK first. As always, remember to consult the video for context on all screen caps. Unfortunately, like an idiot I picked the Sharks PK against the St. Louis Blues, the worst PP in the league. I'll keep my eyes open and update this post to demonstrate that a) the Sharks use the same style against more potent PPs and b) it works against more potent PPs. For now I'm just asking you to look at the style and mechanics of how they attack a PP, and take my word that it's representative of how they do the job. The Lightning are only 19th, so not exactly gang-busters. The difference is 6% (but that's a 50% increase for STL), which is about a goal every 4-6 games depending on opportunities. Here's the video:
San Jose gets the best start a PK can get: they win the face off and clear the puck to the other end. As St. Louis brings the puck up ice, notice where San Jose first challenges the puck carrier.
Manny Malhotra (27) is in the St. Louis zone forcing them to make a decision. The puck carrier needs to pick a side of the ice to attack, and either needs to slow down or move the puck. This prevents St. Louis from attacking the San Jose zone with a full head of steam. St. Louis tries to skate to one side of the ice, and take advantage of the open side by passing back through the pressure.
The puck gets tipped and Rob Blake (4) immediately steps up hard and pressures the recipient, T.J. Oshie. Blake battles to knock the puck back down the ice (to the far blueline) and forces St. Louis to regroup. Scotty Nichol (21) pressures Oshie again and forces Oshie to further pass the puck back into his own end. Compounding the problem, Oshie makes a bad pass and the puck ends up in St. Louis' corner. Nichol applies a light forecheck allowing Malhotra to change in favor of Marleau (12). Nichol heads back up ice and it looks like St. Louis has the whole bottom half of the screen to move the puck up ice.
Marleau skates hard across the ice and pressures the St. Louis puck carrier right at the redline forcing a dump in. The Blues win the puck in the corner and move it to a wide open point.
Nichol was in the corner battling for the puck but flies up the boards and finishes the Blues point man, Eric Johnson. Johnson doesn't get time to control the puck, move it cleanly, or get a shot on goal. One third through the PK St. Louis hasn't had the time or space to set up their PK yet. St. Louis is spending all their energy simply trying to gain/maintain puck possession. Look at how much pressure San Jose applies at every step.
All four San Jose defenders are on the same side of the ice, down low, around the face off circle. In that small area they outnumber St. Louis, and no Blues player has a ton of offensive space to work with. The Blues chase the puck down and continue to try to work it to a man with space. It eventually finds Eric Johnson, again.
Again, Nichol starts in the heart of the slot and skates right out to Johnson. He's assertive and challenging, but under control. He gets right up in Johnson's personal space and forces a clear. After :45 seconds on the kill, he goes for a change and Joe Pavelski (8) takes the ice.
Now, contrary to the first time St. Louis tried to bring the puck up ice, Marleau hangs around center ice and lets St. Louis gain a head of steam. They gain the zone relatively easily. As bad as the St. Louis PP is, they still have a lot of skill, and can take advantage of open space when given the opportunity. This allows St. Louis to get into their PP formation with controlled puck possession for the first time in the PP, when it's halfway over. St. Louis works the puck to an open shot, but the shot goes wide and wraps up the boards to the point at the bottom of the screen.
Marleau was right in between the hashmarks when the shot was released, and gets to the puck near the point at the same time as the point man. Marleau wins the battle and clears the puck. With a little help the Sharks get the puck back down to the Blues zone. Marleau goes for a change and Joe Thornton (19) takes the ice for the homestretch on the kill. The Sharks never get pressure up ice because the puck only clears to the St. Louis blueline. You can't charge the Blues D too hard at that point because you risk being out of control and getting beat by one pass, leaving four Blues behind you against 2 D and a changing F. The passive approach allows the Blues to gain the zone relatively easily again. Andy McDonald gets the puck deep and smartly beats Doug Murray, a much bigger and stronger man, in the corner to gain possession. The Sharks keep the pressure on and never give a puck carrier space down low. There is always a Shark D in the hip pocket of the Blues puck carrier. St. Louis doesn't help their cause with sloppy passing, but San Jose is not going to let the Blues have any open space down low. The Blues move the puck to the open point man and Pavelski immediately commits out to him, blocks the shot, and goes down the ice for the best scoring chance of the entire PP. Joe Thornton helps him out and applies pressure in the offensive zone, and that eats the rest of the time on the PIM.
Tale of the tape:
PKers: Malhotra, Nichol, Marleau, Pavelski, Thornton
St. Louis time in the Sharks' zone: 53 seconds
0 chances against, 1 scoring chance for
Now let's watch the Caps successful PK against Tampa Bay the other night. Compare the aggression level of San Jose against the Caps. Compare the skating, and the decisive decision making. Compare the (lack of) offensive threat the Caps pose.
Yes, what a freaking sweet goal. It was a turning point in the game, but it almost didn't happen. Now, on to the PK. Steckel does his thing and gets the PK off to a good start with a faceoff win. Poti does his best Tom Poti impression and tries to blow the clear. A friendly bounce allows the forwards to get the puck down the ice and our PK is off to a great start. Steckel does good and applies pressure to the TBL puck carrier as he skates back to his end of the ice. But TBL moves the puck ahead and look what happens.
The Caps D gives up the redline and the blueline. They don't even attempt to impede or slow down the Bolts. Part of this is because they are concerned about getting burned wide with both forwards up ice. But they need to read that play better and be closer on the bolts when they are coming up ice. I think I heard somewhere that one of those D is known as being a good skater, that only makes it worse. They needed to take more ice when Laich and Steckel got the puck down to the offensive zone corner. Those two guys at the redline are Steve Downie and Ryan Malone. Which one of those guys scares you from farther than ten feet from the net (and I'm talking about with the puck)? Exactly.
Downie takes the offensive zone, gives the puck to Malone, and Malone promptly lobs a rainbow to Varlamov. So far so good. Dave Steckel wins another faceoff, but the Caps lose the ensuing battle and the Bolts keep the puck in the zone. The puck ends up right on Poti's stick again, and after being thwarted by his previous attempt at sabotage, he maintains determination and takes a different tact. He dumps the puck immediately to the empty corner. Even so, the Caps are in fine position to go win that puck and get a clear.
The two closest men to that puck are Caps, though Steckel is turned around the wrong way. Shamo gets out-muscled for position by Malone, and Malone manages to tip the puck down to the corner. Shamo atones and buries Downie, forcing a bad pass, and Steckel picks up the loose puck and makes a real solid pass to the open D in the slot. Passing to the slot is a no-no in hockey, but it's like throwing off your back foot in football. If you're going to be any good at the highest level you have to be able to do it on occasion. The open man was in the slot, and Steckel would have had a tough play to make clearing up the boards. Good look and good pass. His biggest mistake was passing it to number 3. Poti lobs it down the ice and everyone goes for a change. So far so good. No threats against.
After the change BMo and Flash take the ice for the forwards. They promptly make no attempt at doing anything remotely like challenging Marty St. Louis.
This lets St. Louis and Stamkos pick up speed and attack the Caps with control. St. Louis could have skated the puck into the zone if he wanted to, but he hits Stamkos with a perfect pass. Stamkos takes the zone and pulls up at the top of the faceoff circle with no pressure.
Stamkos passes back and forth with St. Louis and then Flash comes and pressures Stamkos along the boards.
Flash loses the battle to Stamkos and can't take the puck away. Lost battles happen, but how does a team react to them? Not only does Flash lose the physical battle to Stamkos, but Schultz is right on the scene and Lecavalier is near the top of the circles but somehow comes up with the puck. The puck goes to St. Louis at the point, and Flash makes his move.
He gets to within stick length of St. Louis, stops, and waives his stick at him. Contrast that with how Nichol treated Eric Johnson on the point. If Flash isn't winning battles, and isn't using his abundance of skill to attack other skill players, what's he doing? Two more passes back and forth between Stamkos and St. Louis and BMo and Flash just waive. You aren't taking the puck from such a skilled guy like that, and you aren't forcing a decision. Stamkos passes to Lecavalier at the top of the far circle, and this time Erskine doesn't challenge. Normally you'd say "good, Erskine is slower than plate tectonics and Lecavalier would abuse him." Normally you'd be right. But this is a PK, and this was a brief moment of equalization that would allow Erskine to be aggressive.
The red X represents where Flash waived his stick at Stamkos before the cross ice pass. It's basically irrelevant. The man circled in blue is useless. Essentially it's a four on four for a brief time. If anything that guy is support for Lecavalier, but that moves the puck further from the net, not a bad thing. Erskine pulls off and allows that man to get into the play. The red line by BMo represents where his stick should be. He's not guarding anything. If he flips his stick to the other side he takes away the pass to St. Louis. But he's just guarding Flash's lonesome reminder. Lecavalier takes time and sets the PP back up. Inexcusably the Caps leave the most dangerous man on the ice all alone in a prime scoring area.
Somehow St. Louis is unguarded at the hash marks. Lecavalier hits him with a pass and thankfully St. Louis doesn't get it cleanly; but make no mistake, that's a scoring chance. Now look at the sticks. Terrible. The only stick in the right place is BMo's and he's the most irrelevant defender in the play. He's coming back from guarding the point and not in much position to do anything. Erskine's stick is threatening to deflect a shot on net, that's about it. If he swivels it 90 degrees to his right he can take away the pass to St. Louis. Flash and Schultz are guarding nobody. They are blocking a back door pass that isn't a threat. Flash is in perfect position to take away St. Louis' stick, but doesn't. Schultz could take Downie's stick away and be right on him for a rebound, but he doesn't. Not really sure what any of them are thinking.
St. Louis can most definitely score from there off that pass. Don't pay no never mind to what Locker says right after the clear. That was a chance from the heart of the zone. The Caps get the puck down the ice and get a change. No harm, no foul, right? Steckel comes back out with Clark. A couple bad TBL passes, a near too-many-men on the ice, and the PK is rolling again. St. Louis gains the zone and Schultz immediately steps up to him and Clark commits to him on the backcheck so that St. Louis can't pull up. St. Louis wraps the puck around the boards. Erskine can't make the play, but watch Steckel. He takes two half-hearted strides and coasts to the puck. If he reads that and commits from the second St. Louis wraps it around he makes that a battle and potentially wins the clear. He looks like he's still a little gassed from his previous PK shift. (Now recall Marleau tracking down that wide shot and forcing the puck out of the zone.)
Steckel gets there a step late and TBL already has possession. Look how slowly Steckel is moving. He barely moves his feet and he's basically floating. This let's TBL take up space and open up the bomb from the point. Foster gets his shot off, gets all of it, and gets it on net. Further, there is a rebound and a guy right there for it. Luckily the rebound kicked out past the Bolt crashing the net and the Caps took possession. Again, that is a quality scoring chance. We've all seen that goal go in before. The Caps take the puck, and for good measure botch another clear. There's only six seconds left. A tired Steckel and Chris Clark are going to be heroes and rush the puck down the ice and score. Steckel needs to ice that and get that change, instead he puts the puck in Clark's skates. Instead of stopping and making sure he gets the puck and clears it, Clark tries to make a finesse move and kick the puck to his stick. He couldn't have made that move in 06-07. TBL keeps the puck in and gets two more chances. Lecavalier blasts two shots wide and then the Caps get a clear. The talent takes the ice, Sasha picks off the puck in the neutral zone, and AO (always so dangerous when a teammate carries the puck in) buries it. Game changing moment. All's well that ends well, right? The Caps played with fire, TBL easily could have had the lead. I guess the Sabers repaid the favor last night.
When you let a skilled player have time and space in the faceoff circle the Trent Hunter goal happens. Someone on San Jose would have been right on Hunter. They would not fall back and leave him all alone right there.
When you let a team skate through the middle with speed and don't challenge at the blueline you get the Marian Gaborik goal. (The second one.) The Rags came from all the way in their own end. San Jose would have been in MDZ's face much earlier.
Tale of the tape:
2 quality chances against, no quality chances for
PKers: Steckel, Laich; BMo, Flash; Steckel, Clark
TBL time in offensive zone: 1:14 and about a quarter of the time out of the zone was a result of unforced errors by TBL,
There is no reason the Caps can't kill like the Sharks. The Caps have a fourth line of guys that can skate and PK. They have plenty of offensively dangerous players that can kill, but in the kill we watched they didn't play them aggressively and use their skating to their advantage. I'm not saying we need to match Marleau and Thorton by putting AO and Backstrom on the kill. But I do think it would be a great idea to put Backstrom and Semin out for the last 30-35. That's when Thorton went on the ice. You catch the second unit tired (and if the opposing coach is so stupid as to leave his top unit players on the point for the full 2, well then you have sitting ducks) and have a chance at an shorthanded goal. You also get reinforcements out of the box (and if the guy is worthless you get a change and AO joining the play late).
I should also note that lately (maybe inconsistently) BB has been using Semin and Backstrom on the PK more. You do see them occasionally get more aggressive on the PK, but it's safe to say that they are a passive PK. I think the video above is representative, though obviously anecdotal. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see any reason the Caps can't be consistently aggressive and put teams on their heels with their speed and skill. The Caps are built remarkably similarly to the Sharks (and the 'Hawks, who are also a top 5 PK unit, use their skill players on the PK, and are very aggressive). I think most of us have also realized that the teams that are most aggressive against our PP are the most successful ones. It takes a lot of good skating and talent to do it, but isn't that what we're supposed to be flush with?
And finally, for those of you that are still with me, a huge glove tap to renhoak for providing the video. If it weren't for him it would have taken me much longer to do this, and it would have been much worse video quality. I couldn't have done it this well without him. If we just won a road game I'd hip bump him at center ice.
If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's authors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.
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Great stuff man, as always.
"After the Cold War, the AK-47 became Russia's biggest export. After that came vodka, caviar, and suicidal novelists (and a couple good hockey players)."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 11, 2009 7:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Needs more MS Paint. How the tales have turned my friend!
Just kidding – great work, though.
by David M. Getz on Dec 11, 2009 8:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great stuff F&B. Might I suggest pasting big heads (you know, like you could in Goldeneye?) on the players next time just for that extra Emeril BAM?
Anyway, really great work, rec’d.
by ThreePingPost on Dec 11, 2009 8:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
you could argue that missing Boyd Gordon hurts the PK a little bit. But it doesnt hurt the system that they run. The SJS system is as good as it gets, especially with the kind of personnel that they (and we) have. Hopefully BB reads The Rink so that he can teach Flash a lesson or two in aggression. Huge Rec
Fehr is fair, but I like Laich
by amkcaps on Dec 11, 2009 8:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think you’re right. Boyd would help on the PK but it wouldn’t change how we approach it. It’s nice to have another guy that can win faceoffs and is a defense first guy, but it’s no excuse. Boyd would allow us to be a little more offensively aggressive, in that BB could start with Steckel and Laich, then go to Boyd and Backstrom or Flash or Semin and still have a guy that can win a draw and is always looking to keep the puck out of the net. But ultimately every guy you play on the PK should be able to keep the puck out of the net so Boyd wouldn’t exactly be covering up for a weak spot. He’s just another solid PK guy, and who couldn’t use more of those?
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 11, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome. Better than the last one (and I really liked the last one).
I’d rather see this team give up more PPGs “of comission” rather than “of omission.” Isn’t that Leonsis’s mantra? There’s really no reason they can’t be more aggressive in the kill.
By the way, as a Sharks fan I can tell you that Marleau definitely was not this good at killing penalties 7 years ago. Some of this, I think, is simply experience and maturity. Marleau’s just about seen everything that can happen during a power play by now. I think inexperience translates into passivity because the kids are unsure about what’s going to happen next and how far they can push things, so they play it conservatively. I particularly saw some of that in Fleischmann.
One question I have for you F&B — how much of this is coaching and how much is personnel? The decision to put Steckel & Clark out there for the end of the PK was a coaching decision that you discussed already. On the other hand, Brendan Morrison’s performance in this video was disappointing. He’s been around long enough that I expected him not to make the basic mistakes you pointed out. Is he just not a great killer?
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 11, 2009 10:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think the stick positions is mostly hockey sense, but pulling up and waiving sticks is coaching. If BB told BMo and Flash to skate through the point man and force a decision, they would. But reading the play, knowing which pass to take away, knowing where the puck is going to get that extra head start to get there, that’s all in their head. You either know that or you don’t. And as you said, a lot of it comes with experience. Marleau wasn’t the stud he is now 7 years ago, you’re correct, but he did have those raw skills that you knew could translate. I’ve loved Marleau for a long time and before his offensive explosions in recent years I said that he’d be in the league for a long time because even if he doesn’t score he’s got all the tools to be a shutdown defensive player. Well, he doesn’t need to fill that role, and good for him, but he is still quite capable.
I would obviously agree that I’d like to see more goals against result from us being aggressive than simply giving skilled players plenty of time and space. With the latter it’s more of a matter of time than anything else. You simply cannot let the best guys on the other team set up shop in your zone and dictate the tempo.
Glad you liked it, this one is definitely more substantive than the last one and took a good deal more time to put together.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 11, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
These two are a fantastic start. My advice is don’t try to force it — write one of these when inspiration hits. And it’s a good idea to create a new tag and apply it to this one and the last one. Maybe “F&B Breakdowns”. That way they’re easy to find when folks want to go back to them. I get the feeling we’ll be going back to these a lot in future seasons to see how things have (and haven’t) changed.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 11, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a list of ones I think would be interesting, after I get through that it’ll probably slow down (assuming I actually get through that list). It also depends on getting footage that demonstrates what I want to show. Tagging them is a good idea, I’ll see what I can do.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 11, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Caps most aggressive penalty killers are Semin, Bradley, and Laich. I don’t think Semin ever gets enough PK time but a big reason is because he’s always on the first line.
I don’t think we’ll see better PKing until the group stops getting new injuries every other game and, when hell freezes over, BB will stop shuffling lines every game or mid-game.
To me, penalty killing is an art and a lot harder than running a powerplay. I just don’t see them getting to where the Sharks are without having the consistency the Sharks have as far as the players in the PK unit.
I’d like to see them step up on the blue line a bit more during the PK and during the game. It’s something they’ve been lacking on for awhile.
Good work with this one. It looks like the Caps are definitely using a box formation all the time too.
Hockey players aren't like other people. Witt after being hit by a car:
I’m okay. No big deal...I’ve got to go play some hockey. I’m a hockey player.
by zephyr on Dec 11, 2009 12:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Good points. I like Bradley on the PK as well. His speed and physicality allow him to play a lot like Nichol did on the SJS PK. I agree that Semin getting top line minutes is part of what keeps him off the PK (that and his inconsistency) but you saw SJS using their top line players (and lately even Heatley has been on the PK) so it’s not mutually exclusive. If BB managed their shifts better at ES and on the PP Semin and Backstrom would have enough in the tank to give 35 seconds on the PK
PKing is definitely harder than the PP, and I think you’re right that personnel consistency would be a big help in getting the unit clicking. But remember, Malhotra and Nichol are in their first season in SJS and that unit is still the tops.
Caps were definitely in the box against TBL but I’m pretty sure I caught them in the diamond against BUF once or twice. Any good NHL PK unit is going to have to be able to read the PP and adjust accordingly by shifting between a box and a diamond. That is generally the easy part, the harder part is understanding where the scoring threats are and who you have to take away. That is especially clear in the screen cap with St. Louis open in the slot. Everyone was in decent body position but their stick positions still gave up a quality chance.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 11, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
shifting between a box and a diamond.
yeah, I was bringing that up because when we were initially talking about this I thought they used the diamond predomitley but after I’ve said that I’ve noticed that they mainly use a collapsing box.
Hockey players aren't like other people. Witt after being hit by a car:
I’m okay. No big deal...I’ve got to go play some hockey. I’m a hockey player.
by zephyr on Dec 11, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or predominantly
Hockey players aren't like other people. Witt after being hit by a car:
I’m okay. No big deal...I’ve got to go play some hockey. I’m a hockey player.
by zephyr on Dec 11, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Multo-rec’d. Why the Caps don’t force the issue on the opponent’s side of the ice while on the PK is beyond me. Needs more Gordon?
Support your local bakery!
by bigonetimer on Dec 11, 2009 12:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gordon would help, but as I said above I don’t think he’d change the style of the PK. I’m not sure adding Gordon would mean we would challenge puck carriers at the other end of the ice; I tend to think that decision is on BB and the coaching staff.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 11, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if one thing this shows is that the Caps’ penalty kill would be more effective if the penalty killers got more regular ES shifts.
One of the things the Sharks breakdown showed is the value of having your best overall players kill penalties. The Caps can’t do this often enough because, as zephyr pointed out, guys like Semin are getting too much TOI in other situations. If Boudreau would roll 4 lines ES more regularly, even in the 3rd period, then the skill guys like Backstrom and Semin would be fresh for the PK more often.
I also think Quintin Laing sitting on the bench for 10 minutes of ES ice time isn’t good preparation to get out there and aggressively kill a penalty. Anecdotally, I often feel that the first 10 seconds of a Caps penalty kill can often be the worst — perhaps because the guys have cold legs. Maybe it’d be better for the PK if the 4th liners got a few more ES shifts, both to keep them in the game and to give the best players a breather.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 11, 2009 12:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree. Managing ice time would really allow everyone to be more fresh for the PK. Not just in total TOI, but in shift length. It’s a lot easier to stay fresh if you aren’t emptying the tank every shift. The PK is especially tiring so you want guys to be off after 45 seconds, tops. I think the breakdown also shows how much less effective Steckel was on his second shift on the same PK. He just hadn’t recharged his legs like he needed to. I don’t think Q is a particularly good PK option ever. He battles and sacrifices but he doesn’t have the skating to cover the ice to make the plays you saw SJS killers making. I’m not saying he has to skate like Marleau, that’s too high of a bar, but even Nichol is just a scrappy 4th line guy that skates well. Matt Bradley fits that model better than Q does.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 11, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
Great work and great analysis and I’ll never watch a PP the same after this.
by kfjje on Dec 11, 2009 2:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great work F&B. I really like the way you broke it down without being too technical, very informative.
For those of us that never played, you gave a good perspective.
If you don't wanna get hit, KEEP YOUR HEAD UP!
by dlw66 on Dec 11, 2009 5:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great job highlighting why I think so many of us get so frustrated with the Caps’ passive PK. You’re right that they have the personnel to run the Sharks’ PK in terms of skating, but the hockey sense isn’t quite there (as evidenced by the stick positioning examples).
Regardless, I got to imagine that it is easier for a PP to exploit poor hockey sense and open passing lanes if the PK is passive than it is if the PKers are aggressively attacking the puck carrier.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 11, 2009 5:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Definitely. The more time you have to do something, the easier it is to do. If you are pressuring the guy you at least force a quick pass, which is more likely to be inaccurate and give a teammate a chance to chase down the loose puck or get pressure on the pass recipient as they try to corral the puck. When you sit back you ensure that they have time to make the right play, and you’re just hoping that they don’t make a good pass or force the puck into a defender.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 11, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Makes you wonder why so many teams use a passive PK system.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 11, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s usually harder to pass through the box on a passive team because with less movement there are fewer opening passing lanes. But with less movement you concede puck possession as well. If you think you can keep a team passing around the outside and cover the crease, and you have a goalie you trust, it can make sense. I just don’t like it and most good PK units don’t do that.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 11, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Only good recent example of a passive PK I can think of is Minny’s PK last year, which IIRC was #2 behind NYR. They gave up nothing in the middle, which, with their reliable goaltending, makes it easy on the goalie to position and see the shots.
by red army line on Dec 12, 2009 4:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How much of a difference do the defensemen behind the forwards make insofar as deciding on aggressive or passive play at the point? Are the forwards more likely to attack at the points if there’s a stud D behind them?
Fantastic illustration and analysis of PK and PP dynamics and the underlying decisions that the players are making at the time.
Helluva job.
Again.
Rec’d.
Only YOU can prevent idiots from commenting!
by Knee high to a duck on Dec 11, 2009 6:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think coaching has more to do with how the forwards play than the individual guys on the ice. The PK forwards aren’t freelancing out there. Maybe if the coach thinks they have a bunch of studs on D they will let their Fs be more aggressive. But SJS isn’t CGY. The first PK unit had Rob Blake on it. Doug Murray, good player, not a “stud D” was also out there. I don’t recall who the others were but SJS isn’t loaded with stud D in any event. So basically, I don’t think it matters so much who the D are as much as who the coach is. Maybe BB is trying to protect our D by keeping our forwards in, but that doesn’t appear to be working.
Also, sk8 came though at some point and said that HER is using a more aggressive PK now that Woods is gone, and it has been much more effective. Just another thing to keep in mind.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 11, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Boudreau-Woods-French soon in the NHL?
by red army line on Dec 12, 2009 4:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We should use the AHL as our test bed. We tend to have mostly the same composition, abit less skilled players. If it works in the AHL with the bears, we should try it in the NHL.
They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
by Bman21212 on Dec 14, 2009 3:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure how I missed this thread for a couple days. Good job F&B.
What I find interesting is that while you apologize for using footage of the Blues for the Sharks, you don’t for using TBL for us. Honestly, that was better pressure than I’m used to seeing from our PK. Schultz actually battled in the corner, and usually our D are just wingmen to our goalie during the PK, they hardly ever venture to the corner and apply pressure, and absolutely never apply pressure once the puck goes below the goal line.
I was almost impressed that our forwards were close enough to the point guys to even try to be effective by waving their sticks. Usually, once the other team gains anything that resembles control of the puck, our forwards immediately drop back into a very collapsed box and never put any kind of pressure on the point. We seem to try to cut down all passing angles except from point to point, and rely on our goalie to be able to stop the slap shot while denying any kind of cross ice pass to get the goalie out of position.
Excellent job of pinpointing exactly how passive our PK is. Not only do we get burned a ton for close to bottom of the league in effectiveness, we have what, 1 SH goal?
by HateOffSeason on Dec 12, 2009 9:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I only apologized for the STL PP because putting the top PK against the worst PP could look like cherrypicking and I hadn’t thought of that before I asked renhoak to get me that video. You’re right that the Caps PK against TBL was better than normal; I did that so nobody would claim selection bias and suggest I was just picking a bad PK. Showing how bad our PK is, even when successful, has more force to me. If we think about Gerbe’s goal in the BUF game it highlights your point about how passive we are, even down low. That guy had all the time in the world.
Another point that the Gerbe goal highlights is how dependent a PK unit is on a goalie coming up with a save. Varlamov came up with a big save or two against TBL, Theo didn’t against Gerbe. When you sit back and let them shoot it’s a lot more pressure on the goalie.
I’m pretty sure 1 SHG is correct. We could have much more with the guys we can throw out on our PK.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 12, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Our PK seems to be symptom of our defensive posture in general.
A fair amount of the time our D-men don’t stand guys up at the blueline when they are in good position to. We seem to let other teams gain the zone with ease consistently. Our d-men seem to be consistently skating backwards and collapsing into the center. All it seems to do is add screens for our goalies and allow for better shots.
If we were consistently pushing guys to the outside like they were able to do with the Rags in last years playoffs, that is one thing, but that ain’t whats happening. I think that says more about the lack of offensive skill on that Rags team then Caps defensive prowess.
A man gotta have a code
by CP2Devil on Dec 14, 2009 1:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Rags series was definitely more about their lack of offensive skill. Our D is passive at ES as well, but when you have 5 guys to cover 5 guys there is still less time and space to work with. I just don’t understand why you give the other team’s most talented players all the time and space they want. The only way those guys make a mistake is when you force them to.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t understand why you give the other team’s most talented players all the time and space they want.
I’m with you 100%. I hate passive defending in all sports, not just hockey. I really liked how you point to how this passive play has effects on SH opportunities. I think this has been an overlooked flaw mainstream media wise. It’s why I’m a huge fan of Semin on the PK. He’s a game changer that makes guys at the points less aggressive, especially at pinching in. If they do and turn it over all the better. Sasha breakaways are all good in my book.
I should have mentioned in my 1st post – Great work again! I hope J.P. thinks about giving you a special section for these similar to what G.O.D. and you were discussing above.
A man gotta have a code
by CP2Devil on Dec 14, 2009 2:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Reply fail. Not a good Monday for me.
A man gotta have a code
by CP2Devil on Dec 14, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok I tagged it “F&B Breakdown” which appears to just be FB Breakdown up above. I’ll put that on all of them from now on.
You're the reason that I hate Nova Scotia.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 14, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well played sir!
It will be interesting to see how our new (hopefully) full time Dman Alzner will help in this regard.
Also, I’m glad I’m not the only one who can’t get the custom tags to do anything. The one I did for the rejected hockey cards shows blank just as yours does when you click on it. SBN needs to fix that.
DC, where Hockey is a baffling ordeal.
by Chris meet Alex on Dec 14, 2009 4:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
For anyone that wasn’t fortunate enough to catch the Hawks/Sharks game last night, the Sharks killed 7 penalties, and scored a shorty on their own. They were aggressive and that was what created the SHG. But CHI isn’t a great PK either, despite the ridiculous talent they can put out there.
In an ideal world all ten fingers would be on my left hand so my right hand could just be a fist for punching.
by Fehr and Balanced on Dec 23, 2009 2:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
72 | 48 | 14 | 10 | 106 |
|
Atlanta
|
72 | 32 | 29 | 11 | 75 |
|
Florida
|
71 | 29 | 31 | 11 | 69 |
|
Carolina
|
72 | 30 | 34 | 8 | 68 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
72 | 28 | 32 | 12 | 68 |
(updated 3.21.2010 at 10:53 PM EDT)
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