Tuesday Caps Clips: Anxiously Awaiting an Update
by J.P. on Dec 1, 2009 6:37 AM EST
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PrintYour savory breakfast links:
- Recaps and other assorted musings on last night's win (in the standings, at least) from Corey (blog, article), Tarik (blog, article), Vogs, Joe B., Ed Frankovic, Peerless, Examiner, Fight For Old DC, Storming the Crease and Canes Country.
- Plenty of additional coverage of the Alex Ovechkin hit/injury from Capitals Insider ("slight limp" and "not using crutches"... reason for cautious optimism?) Puck Daddy, The Hockey News, SportingNews, OFB, ESPN, FanHouse and Red and Black Hockey.
- One wonders if Bret Hedican would have openly called AO a "joke" (before even seeing last night's hit, no less) if he still had to face him eight times per year. [@hedicanbret]
- Mike Green is scheduled to be on NHL Live! today. [NHL.com]
- A handful of great Caps nuggets from the always solid Elliotte Friedman. [CBC]
- Semyon Varlamov doesn't get a mention for which rookie has meant the most to his team, but is definitely a legitimate Calder Trophy candidate. Eh, we'll take it. [Puck Daddy]
- Varly "almost certainly" will make Team Russia, per Ken Campbell. [The Hockey News]
- Plenty of new power rankings are out, with the Caps holding at third at SportingNews, holding at fourth at Sportsnet, holding at fifth at TSN, holding at sixth at ESPN and CBSSports, and down one to fourth at The Hockey News.
- AO's Men's Journal spread is apparently about to hit newsstands, and it sure sounds as if the photo shoot was fun. [Reliable Source]
- Video of Quintin Laing's awesome mouth-wired-shut interview on CSN. [FanShot]
- Mo, Mo and Movember moustaches. [D.C.Sports Bog]
- As many as a half-dozen Caps prospects could be headed to the World Junior Championships. [Washington Times]
- More on some Caps prospects. [Hockey's Future]
- Sergei Fedorov defers to Ovechkin, Evgeni Malkin and Ilya Kovalchuk. [FanShot]
- Bear Tracks! [LDN]
- Finally, thanks to everyone who made November another record-setting month here at The Rink - visits were up nearly 10% and page views were up more than 17% over our record-setting October. Here's to an even better and bigger December.
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I guess there’s some desire for me to go “on the record” with my thoughts on the hit, so here they are:
I thought it was a bad hit. I think it deserves a suspension, probably in the 1-3 game range. But I personally wouldn’t call it dirty because that connotes an intent or state of mind that I don’t believe existed. Reckless? Absolutely. But I don’t see it as “dirty” and for the same reason I’ll continue to stand by the assertion that Alex Ovechkin is not a dirty player.
One more thing. Given how this team is presently constituted and how the game is currently played, I’ve long feared that we’d one day see one of the Caps superstars lying on the ice, the victim of a knee-on-knee hit… but I never thought that our guy would be the hitter.
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by J.P. on Dec 1, 2009 6:58 AM EST via mobile reply actions
No, not dirty. But unnecessary and ill-advised.
I was “watching” the game via GDT in the first period. I have not yet watched the video of the hit, but if I read correctly, he was going after Gleason ‘cos Gleason ran Nicky. We’ve had this convo before…a) the elite skaters are not to be the players dishing out the justice, and b) the only way other teams can get at AO is by running his friends.
That being said, AO plays on his own terms, but I surely hope he finds a way to modify those terms that is more benefcial to the team as a whole and his own health in specific.
IS MЯI NOW.
Alan May (sp?) also mentioned in the post game that Ward had speared Ov on his 1st or 2nd shift. Of course, no excuse for the absolutely reckless play we saw last night, and have been seeing in increasing number from AO this season.
I’ve been tired of it since the Heward hit last year. His play vs. Gonchar didn’t help. Now we’ve seen already this season, him take a run at (I can’t remember at this point, a Thrasher or Islander) and get no dicipline, then get injured in the CBus game. Now we see him take a run at a Sabre, no dicipline, and now he’s hurt in the Hurricanes game. Correlation/Causation aside, I said it a month ago, had the league stepped in to stop his reckless play, he would not have been in the games that he got hurt, and we’d probably have lost him for less time than what we’ll lose him for now.
My official stance is in no way cautiously optimistic. OV gave that blowhard Cherry, and every other OV detractor a voice and vidication. This could be the karmic retribution that Mr. Fancy (Suit)Pants was talking about. I’m not seeing the no crutches/brace + limp as a good sign (in only one scenario from last night does it make sense), but the team has clearly told everyone to shut up about it. Maybe they know it’s just a bruise/charlie horse but think that if he can play Thurs that his suspension will be longer?
I wanted the league to suspend OV after the Heward hit. I thought he should have gotten one for the Gonchar hit. And if nothing else, to send a message, I thought he should have gotten one after the Kaleta hit. Now I hope the league comes down hard on him. Every time he’s made contact with no dicipline, he’s being taught that that play is acceptable. It’s not. Send a message. Give him 5 games. (and if I’m the Caps, I don’t release any information about his knee until the decision on suspension has been made)
Are you kidding? The Heward hit was perfectly clean and legal – it was just hard. That would have made the NHL disciplinary committee even more of a joke than it currently is.
Also, you have to remember the hit is legal if he doesn’t stick his knee out to try to get the guy after he’s gotten past. Watch last night’s hit again (and again, and again, and again), and you’ll see Ovechkin take 2 strides, stop skating, and then go knee-on-knee when Gleason almost gets out of the way. Ovechkin made no attempt to catch him after he moved, he just kept skating straight. Same with Gonchar: his knee and his shoulder were aligned, it was Gonchar’s own fault that he left himself open to that hit.
That said, I think he’ll get suspended for how hard the hit was, and that Gleason went down like a bitch, even though he missed little to no time. But the hit wasn’t dirty, and he certainly didn’t deserve to be suspended for the Heward hit, specifically, last year.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 1, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I soooo hope that he’s able to serve his suspension while injured (fingers crossed it’s only a 3-4 game injury). The outcry will be priceless.
He can’t while he’s on IR, but I could see him taking a practice and then sitting out 4 games while he’s still recovering.
by DrinkingPartner on Dec 1, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
We’re going to completely disagree on the Heward hit. IMO, it’s one that irritates me more because Heward’s back was to OV the entire play going to the puck. Doesn’t mean Heward’s not aware Ovie’s there, but this wasn’t Kaleta where he turned away from the play, or Gonch/Gleason where they tried to get out of the way.
I could argue that the contact wasn’t as violent as what Ovie can deliver, but either way, when you put your hand on a guy’s letters/numbers, that’s not the time to deliver a hit. We’ve seen much less (even last night) called boarding in this league, and it’s this type of contact with a player’s head that will not be legal much longer in the NHL.
One of the ESPN guys, when discussing top players earlier this year, commented on the fact that Ovie’s style of play could result in a long-term career that didn’t ultimately live up to expectations (I’m sure someone else can find it faster than I could). There was alot of scoffing at the time. Unfortunately, that perspective may prove prescient. For a number of reasons, I’d be happy to see Ovie pull back just a little bit.
Well, Scott Stevens in his days with the Caps was the exact same way. He was younger then and he ran all over the place hitting anything that moved. Because he toned down that act and was much more judicious in throwing his weight around as he got older, he lasted as long as he did.
Hopefully this injury teaches A.O. that lesson.
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Please load brain before shooting off mouth.™
This.
I can’t believe I missed out on AO’s the Caps latest antics in the grey area of “dirty” hits Cane’s country last night. Just got a quick glance at the video involving the our favorite 235lb wrecking ball this morning. From what I saw … Reckless? Yeah … I gotta see it some more.
OV is certainly reminiscent of a young blue line prodigy who wore #3 for the Caps way back when. Here’s hoping to AO coming to his senses and realizing he’s got a whole career ahead of him to keep in mind and the bigger picture. Get well OV.
"wanna go, pretty boy?" -Mr. Carl Racki
Even during his Devil Days, Scott Stevens still had the tag of “dirty player” that followed him around, even though he had calmed down. But then, another thing that followed him around was the Stanley Cup, soooooo…..
He and Chris Pronger have this little support group they run where they call each other up in the middle of the night, moaning to each other about all the guilt built up over their careers.
Support your local bakery!
Pronger’s on another level though. He’s like Chris Simon, except he’s a star so he gets away with it more or less.
gets away with it, right up until we hit “Dammit, Pronger!” on the flowchart :)
by RedBirdie on Dec 1, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ESPN has guys…plural!?…that cover hockey?
by Yoshietree on Dec 1, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I actually found Melrose compelling this morning when he referred to the Ballard incident as “the stupidest thing i’ve ever seen”
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
Now, that’s a man who knows what he’s talking about. You might say an expert…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Not that anyone generally pays too much attention to ESPN’s “analysis” most of the time, but I think it’s a little humorous that the more experienced and mature the Caps get, the lower they’re rated. Or does Burnside consult with Melrose on these matters? Yeah, probably not.
Still, after picking Washington as the dark horse for 5 years now maybe the Caps are finally free from the Melrose Curse.
One more thought. I am unimpressed with the “walking and boarding the team bus with a slight limp and no brace or crutches” routine. Although I presume the trainers etc. signed off on it, it’s theater at best and he should have gone to the airport in somebody’s car.
IS MЯI NOW.
I doubt the team plays games with its franchise player.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Unless they know their franchise player is: a) completely fine or b) won’t be on the ice until October 2010…
Either way, those aren’t games. I think that criticizing the team for AO’s mode of transportation to the airport is a bit misplaced and unfounded.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I love it when there are no new facts in the case and the speculation just runs on and on. This knee thingy is just like the Tiger Woods stuff. Fun.
But Brawndo's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
We have a list on my whiteboard here at work that’s about 15 scenarios long for what really happened in Orlando over the weekend. Extremely fun.
Attacked by killer bees, only reasonable explanation.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Your firearms are useless against them!
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Dec 1, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Couldn’t agree more JP. The problem is AO’s recklessness is becoming a theme, not a blip on the radar. The guy goes hard (it’s the same argument I made when Tuomo Ruutu was suspended for his hit on Tucker) and there’s times when you can’t adjust. You don’t want to take that out of his game, but he needs to be more aware of what he’s doing.
Three games is fair, IMO.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, that was pretty nasty. Wouldn’t wish that on anyone. From what I’ve read, no specifics yet.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
Nothing yet … it was bad enough that he was taken to the hospital, and they said it was his calf (better than Achilles, I suppose). Hopefully we’ll find something out today.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
Laraque’s hit was dirty — he stuck his leg out. Ovechkin’s hit was reckless. He steamrolled Gleason knee-to-knee when he could have avoided it. But Boudreau was right — Ovechkin led with the shoulder. There’s a distinction between reckless and dirty and this is it.
Still, just as every player needs to be in control of his stick at all times, every player needs to be in control of his body at all times. Three games sounds about right.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
In my mind, the problem with all of Ovechkin’s hits and suspensions is exactly intent. His intention appears to be to make a clean hit, not to hospitalize a player. The 5 minute major is a penalty that should be handed out not based on the severity of the collision, but the intention of the play – hence the “intent to injure”. The same knee on knee at a slower pace is (at most) a 2-minute infraction, incidental contact of the knees after a partially-dodged hit – it’s Ovechkin’s speed, power, or recklessness that make it such a brutal collision. On NHL On The Fly last night during the recap, there was a more clearly intentional knee-knee collision in another game that was only given a 2-minute minor by the officials. It seems pretty clear that this major was handed out at least in part because of the previous one (which I’m not even sure was a legitimate penalty, let alone a major) and the initial rolling around on the ice that Gleason did… which he magically recovered from in less than 2 minutes.
I can understand people wanting Ovechkin suspended to “send a message” to him, but I’m not sure about the message being sent… don’t try to make big hits? That is just part of his game. To me, you can’t suspend a player based on incident contact – especially when the player penalized on the play got the worst of the injuries – or even ill-advised attempts to hit people… you suspend them based on perceived intent – and I think this is why (at least up to now) Ovechkin hasn’t been suspended for any of his previous hits.
Frankly, I don’t see it making much difference (to Ovechkin) if he is suspended, other than to tone down the “superstar treatment” squawking – and for that matter alone, I’m fine with a few games where he sits. But if you think it’s going to change his game, I just don’t see that happening – Ovechkin knows as well as we do that he had no intent to harm the player he hit… so it’s not clear what behavior is supposedly being corrected. When he starts swinging or jabbing his stick at players’ heads or man-parts, mashing his skates into players, or making dirty punches to the heads (or man-parts) of people when the official isn’t looking, or any sort of behavior that indicates he’s doing something other than playing hockey then we can start labeling him as a “dirty” player, but for making a clean hit into a guy’s shoulder when they see him coming or attempting and missing a big open-ice hit with your shoulder and not getting your body out of the way fast enough… I don’t buy it.
by Hystricine on Dec 1, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Intent matters, but so do consequences that come from recklessness. That’s why manslaughter’s a crime but one that’s punished less severely than homicide. Or, in the hockey world, why high-sticking is a penalty.
Yes, but the consequences here are a potential injury to himself. Gleason was fine – he was out there on the ice gooning it up and got himself ejected later in the game. So consequence in this case is only potential consequence… you don’t get punished for almost (or potentially) accidentally killing someone – you get the punishment when you actually create a negative consequence (to follow with your metaphor).
you don’t get punished for almost (or potentially) accidentally killing someone – you get the punishment when you actually create a negative consequence (to follow with your metaphor).
So you do. That fact that you endanger yourself doesn’t really matter, what matters is that you’re endangering other people. That’s the logic behind speeding tickets.
Are there going to be officials with radar guns clocking how fast skaters are going to make sure they are traveling at a safe speed which they can react to people? Will anything over that constitute speeding penalties?
IS MЯI NOW
Yup. Pucks too.
That wasn’t the point, though, the point was that people get punished for behavior that’s reckless and potentially harmful all the time, both in sports and in the rest of the world.
If endangering people is a metric for suspension, why isn’t there much more clamor for Erik Cole to be suspended. His head-high elbow was reckless, dangerous, and potentially injurious. If Laich had rolled around on the ice holding his head after that hit, don’t you think we’d be watching replays of it and asking ourselves how Cole isn’t getting suspended? Cole’s hit was, in a way, worse than Ovechkin’s – it had actual intent and malice… and Cole wasn’t even given a minor penalty.
If endangering people is a metric for suspension, why isn’t there much more clamor for Erik Cole to be suspended. His head-high elbow was reckless, dangerous, and potentially injurious.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I think it’s be pretty clear that recklessness and endangerment of other people is something that gets punished both in the sports world and outside it. In the NHL is can be a stick, a high elbow, a knee, a slew foot, or a boarding call – even when there’s no injury. In football it’s making helmet-to-helmet contact or hitting a quarterback low. In soccer it’s a sliding tackle from behind.
Players are penalized in the NHL every day for reckless play. The fact that one guy didn’t get caught one time doesn’t change that.
Players are penalized in the NHL every day for reckless play. The fact that one guy didn’t get caught one time doesn’t change that.
Getting caught or not (during the game) does not matter. Plenty of players are suspended after games in which they weren’t penalized during the game. The league has the capacity to review games and hand out suspensions for behavior that occurred within them, and they’ve done it before.
My point is that your argument is that Ovechkin’s actions warranted a suspension – but yet I don’t hear you also making a fuss for Cole’s actions – when you believe it’s the recklessness that’s the primary offense in this case. Cole’s actions overshadow Ovechkin’s with respect to all of the criteria you’ve given – yet no one is discussing his actions in the same context.
Do I care if Cole gets suspended? No. I’m not even concerned that he didn’t get penalized (officials miss stuff all the time). But what he was attempting was more flagrant, violent, unnecessary, and malicious than what Ovechkin did – so if the recklessness is our metric (which has been contend) then why isn’t it being applied uniformly by the league. Certainly it’s not because Cole is a bigger star or has less of a history for this sort of behavior (albeit not quite as fresh in people’s minds as Ovechkin’s).
It seems both comparable and completely relevant to the case being made here for suspending Ovechkin… and yet Cole’s actions aren’t even going to get a second look.
by Hystricine on Dec 1, 2009 6:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not following the line of reasoning.
Far as I can tell this goes back to your statement, “you don’t get punished for almost (or potentially) accidentally killing someone – you get the punishment when you actually create a negative consequence” and my response that it’s pretty common for people to be punished both in and out of sports for recklessness.
I don’t see what relevance Cole has to the discussion. My point was, is, and has been that people get punished for recklessness, not that everyone who has ever been reckless has been punished or that the NHL’s system or was perfect or that no one ever got away with anything.
Basically I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, I just don’t see how it relates back to the original point of whether or not people get punished for being reckless or whether or not that’s fair.
Ehh…speeding tickets are nothing more than a money grab. Otherwise they’d be handing them out at 100x the current rate, because they could.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
speeding tickets are nothing more than a money grab
Speed cameras especially. One reason I don’t like living in MoCo.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
Well, actually, reckless driving is a crime. It’s punished because it could potentially lead to accidentally hurting or killing someone. (If you really want to continue the metaphor.)
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 1, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
He wasn’t fine, btw … he came back and played b/c the team was already down to 5 with Corvo hurt.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Glad you’re here. Care to post a perfunctory denunciation of the booing of Ovechkin whilst injured? Or the celebration of his injury?
You know, set the record straight that you’re a classy bunch over at Canes Country?
Just for context’s sake, the Lider Maximo here has threatened banning over similar behavior…
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
I assume he was booed b/c he made a hit that will likely get him suspended. Some (not me) think he was fine and just faking, since he was getting tossed anyway.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Some (not me) think he was fine and just faking, since he was getting tossed anyway.
What’s the alleged incentive there?
I guess sympathy from the league shrug
“Why would I make a hit that would hurt me?”
Like I said, that’s not a theory I buy in to.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I have no problem with him being booed in the immediate aftermath of the hit. But after lying on the ice for several minutes, and getting assisted off the ice, he was showered with boos. You don’t think that’s unfortunate at best?
How about the “I’m so happy he got hurt” kind of comments on your blog?
Just asking.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Frustration or not, it’s still pretty classless.
by Kolzilla on Dec 1, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed … but people begin to look for comeuppance when a guy starts to do this a lot. It is twice in three games.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
It’s pretty irrelevant, but both ejections, and even penalties, were borderline at best, which is going to get ignored.
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Twice in three games he received a game misconduct penalty, not twice he did anything to deserve it.
by David Getz on Dec 1, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He got ejected twice in three games. The first ejection was a really clean hit. The canes got away with an actual boarding last night that was 400x worse than what Ovi did to Kaleta.
IS MЯI NOW
I thought the one on MP was major-worthy, but that might be my red glasses talking (haven’t seen a replay).
He took a shot, that’s for sure. But as G.O.D. notes below, he was ready for it. I’m sure he’s taken serious hits before (and frequently dirty because it’s so hard to get him cleanly) though probably not quite this bad. Gleason is a big strong dude and MP hasn’t been chased by NHL players for long.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
Also, noticed you voted, “no it wasn’t a bad hit” on our site. Not a bad hit if it had been Gleason on AO?
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
It probably wouldn’t have been anything that anyone would have talked about because Ovi would have successfully avoided it, or, like every other check he has ever received, hit the guy back.
IS MЯI NOW
b/c Gleason is a soft player, right? comical
I didn’t see AO get up or hit back when Chara hooked him and AO crashed into the boards last season. To say a guy going down from a questionable hit/play could’ve been avoided is silly.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Where did I say he was soft? I just said if Gleason came at Ovi like that the results would have been different. I answered your question.
IS MЯI NOW
You said AO would’ve hit back. Are you suggesting Gleason give up the puck in his own end (with another Cap on, top of AO, forechecking) simply to hit back?
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Huh? I’m saying that when he is about to get crushed with a check he checks into it. I’m answering your question.
On what Gleason should have done? He should have done this:
IS MЯI NOW
I don’t see AO carrying the puck in his own end in that shot. Do you?
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions
Shouldn’t defensemen trying to exit the zone expect front-pressure from forecheckers?
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
he did, went to avoid it, and got kneed.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
Then why is there any discussion about Ovechkin being suspended?
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
/sigh
Knee on Knee =/= kneeing.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
So Gleason was as guilty for the contact as AO?
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
you said “Shouldn’t defensemen trying to exit …”
I responded with “He (Gleason, the defenseman) did, went to avoid it (the hit), and got kneed.”
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
…yeah. Ovechkin was trying to finish his check, and his knee was out just as far as his shoulder, from the view I saw. Gleason tried to avoid the contact to avoid the turnover. This is fine too. The problem is that when you try and hit someone, and Ovechkin does this a lot, you put your leg between your opponents, to avoid knee on knee, at least, this is how I was taught. It was not an intentional knee. They just bumped knees because one player was trying to finish his check, and another was trying to avoid it.
WRECKLESS? yes. INTENTIONAL KNEE? no.
I’m one of the people who’s calling for at least a 1 game suspension, to follow the rules mentioned that if Ovechkin got another major/misconduct he’d get suspended. I’m as tired of the wheel of justice as anyone, but the argument that this was an intentional knee doesn’t fly, and yes, when a play accidentally happens like this, both players can be at fault.
If that’s a problem, and player can’t play fast and make split second decisions like this, hockey’s doomed.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
I’m saying the same thing … it was reckless. But if you get tossed out of two out of three games, you deserve more than one game (Tuomo Ruutu got three a while back for a hit with no history with discipline … tho they may’ve given him some b/c Jarkko’s his brother … lol)
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Tensions are high right now, Cory. Don’t take anything I’m saying too strongly, it’s not meant as a personal attack.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
If Gleason abandons the puck to brace or return the hit from AO, it is right in the middle of his zone for a breakaway. He avoided him and got hit with a bad play.
That’s my point. In the instance last night, making a hit and losing possession was not an option.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
Geesh...
So he should instead still cough up the puck while making a dangerous slip? I don’t really understand the circles you are going around in here. Gleason should have absorbed the check.
He wasn’t the last man back and I don’t know why you think there would be a breakaway.
This is where we started:
You: Not a bad hit if it had been Gleason on AO?
Me: …Ovi would have successfully avoided it, or, like every other check he has ever received, hit the guy back.
You: Gleason is a soft player, right? comical
Me: Where did I say he was soft? I just said if Gleason came at Ovi like that the results would have been different.
You: Are you suggesting Gleason give up the puck in his own end (with another Cap on, top of AO, forechecking) simply to hit back?
Me: when he is about to get crushed with a check he checks into it.
On what Gleason should have done? He should have done this: (picture of Richards showing how one receives a check without blowing out 4 knees.)
You: I don’t see AO carrying the puck in his own end in that shot. Do you?
So basically every time I say something you change the subject or deflect what I’m answering. Not a very fun discussion and as an editor I would think you could comprehend these simple points better.
IS MЯI NOW
I’m saying he wasn’t going to get “crushed” … he made a move and avoided him. Unfortunately, AO led with his knee and clipped him. No player should have to assume someone is going to knee them, therefore it makes the hit a gray area hit.
You gave the Richards situation as an example … diff. scenario completely. That was my point about the puck.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
I think the Richards example is pretty similar. He has the puck, hits it away when about to be hit and then absorbs the check.
And Gleason didn’t avoid him. He left his legs in the contact lane. Ovechkin didn’t stick his legs out they were right in line with his shoulder and would have been behind his shoulder after he checked Gleason.
Anyway, that wasn’t the point of my original reply. My point was I don’t think that this happens to Ovechkin. Guys have been trying to take him out for years now, esp. since the Don Cherry bounty, and he’s been fine.
IS MЯI NOW
I hope not … I don’t want to see anyone hurt. But I think you’re grasping at excuses. It was a reckless play that luckily didn’t seriously hurt Gleason (or AO). He has to be responsible for his body — that’s really the bottom line.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Also
Why is the only option Gleason giving up the puck to take the hit properly? Shouldn’t he have passed the puck and braced for contact? Which coach told their D to try to stickhandle around the most dangerous scorer in the league in his own zone? Oh… the coach of the worst team in the league.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
Love that this is now Gleason’s fault. LOL.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
You said he got kneed because he tried to dodge the hit.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
he got kneed b/c AO widened his stance to make the hit, as someone else mentioned. It’s reckless … not purposefully dirty, but something he needs to correct.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with all the reckless stuff. But I also agree with Zephyr that Gleason didn’t adequately protect himself. Shoulder dodges don’t work in the NHL. You either need to move your feet to get out of the way, or use your shoulder to take the hit. That’s basic hockey from the time you start hitting. And yeah, I think it was a pretty dumb play for Gleason to try to stickhandle around AO in the first place, regardless of the outcome. Gleason’s not known for his fancy hands and puck skills. Move the puck and brace yourself. That happens a hundred times a game and nothing comes of it.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
You lead with a shoulder to protect yourself. It’s basic hockey. Gleason and every other NHL player was taught that at a young age.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
Textbook example: the clip above with Richards bouncing off Ovechkin.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Admittedly, that was more AO losing his balance and not being able to turn the corner than Chara’s hook.
I remember several times in Caps vs Flyers from 2008 Richards would come in to try and hit Ovechkin and Ovechkin knocked him on his seat. I think that was a couple of times in Game 1, at least.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. Hooking a guy off balance isn’t the same as a guy trying to avoid a check. When/if Chara can catch AO then AO returns the favor on the contact.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
AO IIRC has also dumped Chara once or twice.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I did vote that way, which was a mistake. Clicked the wrong button. If I could change it, I would. I did suggest a 1-game suspension for the man once over here.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
To clarify, I intended to vote for the minimum suspension, 1 game, and clicked the first option without reading.
See how easy that was? I admitted I made a mistake and explained how.
Now, back to you. Do you or do you not think the celebration of AO’s injury by your posters is reasonable? Do you or do you not think the booing as he left the ice was reasonable?
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
or maybe you got caught up in the moment? just sayin’ …
I don’t agree with booing an injured player or being “glad” anyone was hurt. But there’s a level of frustration that has built up, and it’s like this is the first time AO’s done this. That’s not an a reason for being “glad” as you suggest. But we’re not talking a Lady Byng winner here.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
For the sake of clarification, what do you mean by that? Not the first time he’s made a questionable hit or not the first him he’s hit someone knee-to-knee?
I have to disagree on the latter, in that case. I know people cite the hit on Gonchar, but I think the majority of that was Gonchar trying to avoid contact. Nowhere the near the level of recklessness he showed last night, and nowhere near the level of recklessness people thought it was.
by David Getz on Dec 1, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed … but perception is reality with some people.
Like I’ve said, I don’t condone booing an injured player. I’m not much of a fan of booing at all, really. I even wrote something last season about how it was time to move on from the Orpik hit on Cole.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
prelude to a hit
Ovi’s movement prior to the knee-on-knee last night reminded me of his controversial hit on Wideman last year in Boston.
Wideman was not seriously injured but there were a lot of unhappy fans and players on the Bruins side.
Ovi’s modus operandi was the same in both cases: he sized up his quarry, moved in for the kill, and when they evaded out of the sweet spot he tried to use his full body like a net to expand his impact zone to still make the hit. He wasn’t driving his knee forward as a weapon any more than he was turning, he was expanding his impact zone in a dangerous and improper way in the final moment before impact.
imho.
I definitely agree that his goal wasn’t a knee-on-knee. But it was the result.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
AO’s success, the Caps’ success, not being in the basement, filling the home arena. Pick one.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
I believe Cory can’t read your posts because of that big Silver cup thing getting in the way of his monitor.
A man gotta have a code
by Carl Putnam on Dec 1, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah … I get to see AO a lot, too … on TV and live. Love watching him — he’s fantastic. But I’m not jealous of him or the Caps.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
You also said you weren’t booing. This is all directed at those classless punks.
And why would you be jealous of the Caps? They’re ripe for a fall!
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
by Rob Parker on Dec 1, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think the tone here is getting a little too much kick-the-guy-on-the-ground-ish.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
I actually lead with a knee when the guy is down.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
by Rob Parker on Dec 1, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That wasn’t me that wrote that … I picked the Caps to win the division.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
Level of frustration that’s built up? Over what, and over how long? AO isn’t Avery or Bertuzzi or Marchemant (sp?). He hits a ton, but his dangerous hits are rare.
Tim Conboy has taken way more cheap shots at Caps than AO has at Canes; we dislike him, but I don’t think anyone would celebrate a gruesome injury to the guy.
Not buying this frustration excuse.
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
And Conboy does it all with less than 5 minutes of ice time per night! Zing!
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Frustration with the season … not with AO.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Let’s not kid ourselves though, there is a lot of hatred for Ovechkin because he’s better than the players they’re rooting for. Not that it justifies their booing him after the injury AT ALL, but that’s a much bigger factor than his hitting history I think.
A lot of people love watching AO (myself included). And there are a lot of knuckleheads, too.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Cory I am in your camp on this one. First off, I can’t believe there is this much discussion on booing a player. The booing thing happens all the time in every sport and from every fanbase. Sorry caps fans but we are just as guilty at times. Also, Canes fans certainly are a frustrated bunch right now so they’d probably boo their own mothers right about now.
This is much to do about nothing.
A man gotta have a code
by Carl Putnam on Dec 1, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s booing injured players that’s the problem. The only other time I remember that is PHI booing Michael Irvin. I hate Irvin but I was appalled by that, and kinda felt like that was another point that distinguished PHI fans from all other fans. Now they have company.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
I’ve seen it plenty of times, both on TV and in person. I believe there was context here, in terms of Ovi’s hit and fans displeasure down there in general. I just sat through an entire college football season of fans booing their own team. I’m not saying its a great thing to do, I’m just not saying its worth getting worked up over. MOst of those people just were ticked off for one reason or another. I highly doubt they all wanted Ovi lying in a hospital bed for 6 months.
This whole event has caused overreactions every which way imaginable IMO.
A man gotta have a code
I just sat through an entire college football season of fans booing their own team.
That’s not what I’m talking about. If you have another verifiable example of fans booing an injured player I’d love (probably hate) to see it.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
There's a bunch of jerks
that say we all booed Thoreson when Green blasted his nards away.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I have seen it at a litany of high school & college sports events during my lifetime. In some cases some of the people didn’t realize the guy was truly hurt or at least didn’t believe it.
Once again I don’t understand what the big deal is. If I’m lying down in pain I could care less what some yahoo in section 100 thinks anyway.
A man gotta have a code
Does it piss you off when people throw shit on the ice? VC fans included? If I’m Jeff Carter and we just won game 7 what do I care about getting hit with a pizza box? He doesn’t, but I do because it’s classless (and I’m sure privately he says the same thing).
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
I said nothing about throwing items at people. Certainly that is a bigger deal. We are talking about personal safety. I believe a certain Oregon cheerleader can attest to what happens when things get thrown.
Neither are good, but one is dangerous and one is not.
A man gotta have a code
I don’t know about the cheerleader, but I don’t think a pizza box is dangerous. It’s just classless. Sure, you can throw dangerous things, but you can also throw pizza boxes and plastic cups. That’s classless, if not dangerous.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
But this is the first time AO has done anything like this to the ‘Canes. I could understand BUF booing a little more because twice it’s been their guy. The ’Canes fans are just being jealous sore-losers.
Oh, and Backstrom > Staal.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
by Rob Parker on Dec 1, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
If he was just playing to fill in for Corvo, why did he end up with more ice time than Alberts and Wallin – and probably would have had more than Ward if he hadn’t been ejected? I’m not saying he wasn’t a little dinged… but come on… he wasn’t injured.
by Hystricine on Dec 1, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He wasn’t “filling in” for Corvo. First off, they’re paired together. As for Ward and Wallin … if you watched the team as often as I do, you’d know you don’t want to give them more ice. LOL.
Team said postgame that if it was someone else they probably wouldn’t have come back. Tim’s a throwback and plays through a lot.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
If the Caps can let Erskine get ~18 minutes of ice time… I’m sure the Hurricanes could let Ward and Wallin skate a few more minutes if it meant not skating a hobbled Gleason.
Sorry, still not buying that he was injured, no matter what the “team” says post-game.
But someone could say the same about AO. Point was, maybe he doesn’t play more if Corvo isn’t bleeding all over Raleigh.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Someone could say that about Ovechkin, but they would lack they would have significantly less TOI-based evidence.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Yes, yes he did. But my point is that you can’t reasonably argue that Ovechkin isn’t as hurt as Gleason BECAUSE HE WASN’T ON THE ICE FOR THE REST OF THE GAME — unlike Gleason.
Comprehension failure.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Then i’ll argue that, since the Canes didn’t have practice today and the Caps did, and AO did some participating, that we still don’t know who is hurt more, since Gleason didn’t skate today and AO did.
yeesh
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Weak
AO still skated less time than Gleason did, in easier conditions, against no opponents, with no pads on.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
as weak as the all caps response. it was sarcasm.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
that’s why the “yeesh” was at the end. but keep it up … you’re making your point.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
LOLOL
He hit me firrrrrst! Sorry to come in and present you with gasp logic.
by Cory Lavalette on Dec 1, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions
You’re being sarcastic again, right?! You’re such a joker.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
That’s like saying a Lidstrom-esque cross-check makes a giant cross-check legal because the latter is simply a more powerful version of the former, if I read correctly.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
If a Lidstrom-esque cross check and a "giant’ cross check were both performed by holding your stick parallel to the ice and skating at two different speeds, then, sure, those things are comparable.
Only in a very basic sense. If you’re talking about using the stick to move someone out of the front of the net and taking a twenty foot skating start before taking it to a guy, those situations are pretty different. Speed and force count for a lot in hockey, which is why there are boarding and charging calls.
I meant, if you stand next to a guy and give a 110% power arms-extended check with the stick parallel to the ice, then it’s cross-checking, right? Lidstrom does soft taps like that a lot, but doesn’t get called for it. Not saying it’s a penalty nor condoning it, but it looks the same to me aside from the power.
by red army line on Dec 2, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
From Friedman:
Capitals veterans (Chris Clark among them) have been quietly telling the younger players that, in a salary cap world, their team may not be able to stay together. They want the younger guys to understand how important it is to go hard when you have the chance to win.
Just don’t give him the Cup first, that would be an embarrassment!
"Eloquence, brought to you by a peanut butter, egg and dice sandwich."
Am I missing /snark here BP? I really don’t get this. Your Captain doesn’t have to be your superstar. In fact, its probably better if he isn’t. The one thing you can never say about Clark is that he doesn’t give his all for the team. What more can you ask for a Captain on a young team that needs leadership from experienced guys?
Sure, Clark may not finish his career here, hell, he may not even finish his contract here. As the Caps have become a better team over the last couple of years, his on ice contributions have been lessened by an influx of better and developing players (not to mention injury). That is just life. It’s not like he was the best player on the ice when he first came here on a terrible team either.
He may not be the best player on the ice, and isn’t the best Captain in the history of the franchise, but there is absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about for having Caption Cadaver wearing the C.
by HateOffSeason on Dec 1, 2009 8:14 AM EST up reply actions
Fair enough. I know I’d seen it around, just not quite that openly from a respected commenter.
Whew…glad I cleared that with being sure about the sarcasm.
by HateOffSeason on Dec 1, 2009 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
A pretty well reasoned response if he were serious though. Maybe keep that one in your back pocket for future use.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions
It’s a throwback to some donk who said he’d be embarrassed to see Bettman hand the Cup to Clark.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Maybe more embarrassing is to have Clark be handed the Cup by Bettman.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 8:30 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Finally out of the basement in the green-comment category.
by red army line on Dec 2, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Mike Knuble will be doing Caps on the Fly at the Hilton Garden Inn tonight at six. I think I’ll go to that one.
IS MЯI NOW.
Your sig is so win.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2009 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Player A has 16 GP, 7 goals and 11 points. Player B has 15 GP, 7 goals and 12 points. Player A is Fehr and Player B is Fleischmann, but here’s the kicker — Fleischmann is averaging 17:33 of ice time per game, while Fehr is getting is 11:59. Now, 1:10 of that difference is PK time, but Flash is also getting an extra 1:26 a night on the PP as well.
From Corey. (Just felt like pouring some lighter fluid on the already raging fire . . .)
In fairness to Flash (did I just say that?), Fehr’s numbers have come, for the most part, when he’s had increased ice time (i.e. recently), so while his overall production-per-minute is better, most of it has come when he’s gotten similar minutes to those in which Flash has produced his numbers.
Don’t get me wrong – I’d take Fehr over Flash every day of the week and twice on game day, and Fehr has earned the increased ice time by producing when it was given to him (unlike others), but it’s not like Fehr has scored every time he’s stepped on the ice.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
But Fehr has also produced on the third line, second line, PP1, whoever he’s with. Flash came out hot and then…
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
You’re preaching to the choir, and I looked at the stats and I was a bit off in my assumption. Flash is a mess.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Flash stepped up when AO was hurt the first time (still can’t believe I’m typing that), but faded the moment AO went back in the lineup. And Fejhr finally healed up his ribs and found another gear.
IS MЯI NOW.
Why does everyone parenthetically question themselves when saying nice things about Flash? (Geez, should I be doing the same thing??).
Scoring comes in mini-waves for most players. It’s a game of inches, and shots that went in for Flash earlier have been off a bit more recently. He still seems pretty active out there to me, with a decent number of opportunities. As is generally the case, we’ve got to evaluate over the long term.
One of my problems with Flash is that when he’s not scoring, he’s not doing anything positive. He’s not a good penalty killer, he’s not a good forechecker, he doesn’t have particularly good vision, etc. On championship teams, guys need to be able to contribute in multiple ways (unless their one way is consistently productive), and Flash hasn’t shown the ability to do that, IMO.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 1, 2009 8:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Precisely the guy I was thinking of, in fact.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
it’s to the point where i actually feel bad for this guy. like maybe he has some terrible disease/affliction? i’m going to hope that he gets a raise, happens upon a nice girlfriend, whatever it takes to find personal happiness.
Can we stop pretending to be nice to those guys now?
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
There’s a hefty amount of douchebaggery making the rounds lately, but I’ve particularly noticed it from Penguins fans.
Specifically: “got what a dirty player deserves”, “just a goon”, “hope he’s out for the year.”
As if these guys wouldn’t trade half their team(s) for Ovechkin in a heartbeat..
by TFG on Dec 1, 2009 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
If people want to talk about the hit, that’s fine, but the lack of sensitivity regarding a potentially major injury to a franchise/fanbase’s most important player is a bit unfortunate. I mean, if Sidney Crosby broke his neck diving to draw a penalty, I’d be embarrassed if Caps fans said, “serves him right for diving so damn much,” but would have no problem with “there’s another example of him embellishing to try to draw a call.” There difference may be too subtle for Pennsylvanians of all denominations to pick up on.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Pretty important to the league too, is Ovechkin.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
That reads well in Yoda voice.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Then “sensitivity regarding a potentially major injury” is inapplicable.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
How did we get from Crosby diving to him being hot?
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
How’s Bourque working out for you?
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Probably, but a zero risk chance at a 23 year old who’s had success before (and is cheap) isn’t a bad idea. Just didn’t work.
You come at the king, you best not miss.
And it pisses off your arch rival (the one out-of-state) to boot.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
I read somewhere that most women think Doug from King of Queens is hot.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t believe everything you read.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
It’s a small size, it has to be truth! Ovechkin has 3 ejections in 3 games, he’s a dirty player!
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
I just realized that that made me lose all credibility with stats for the rest of eternity.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Then you set the clip to Yakety Sax and laugh the night away.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Dec 1, 2009 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
As I recall, most of us actually did say how unfortunate Crosby’s injury was last year. I don’t recall any “he had it coming” or “I’m glad he’s hurt.” None of that this year for Malkin either. But maybe I just haven’t seen it.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2009 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
I for one was more afraid of what he’d do once he came back.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
Yakety Sax is the Benny Hill crazy sped-up running around music.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
right, JP. people are welcome to question the hit and call AO dirty all goddamn day, but to say it’s fortunate AO was injured…it’s called losing at life.
That kind of garbage is not unprecedented in BSH’s user-generated content.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
BSH’s editors aren’t powerless. they write the guidelines, enforce the rules.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 1, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Indeed Natty, indeed. I thought Geoff’s gesture the other day was turning a corner. We’ll see how they respond to my comment about the “fortunate” nature of AO’s injury. Still, I can’t feel sorry for that guy at all. You look for something to make him happy, I look for something to put him out of his misery.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
What was the corner-turning gesture?
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Nah. I looked it up. We’re on the same page now. Also, I found the “Go Flyers” post, so now I’m fully in the loop.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I was talking about how they were going to handle the new comment about the “fortunate” injury. Apparently he doesn’t hold a grudge about the Flyers GDT from back when I was on pills, so that’s good.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
at first i thought you were talking about when he came over here to congratulate you on a job well done. either way.
by Natty Bumppo on Dec 1, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t believe in karma, but these folks are really asking for some misfortune when they wish the worst on any player.
Very classy, much like the booing fans last night while Ovechkin was being helped off.
While I’m never a fan of fans boo-ing during injury, this was a situation where the guy doing the hitting did so in a very questionable manner and appeared to take a 2nd defenceman out of the game for the Canes… a team that has probably developed a distaste for injuries over the course of the year, especially those that are caused by reckless play rather than flukes. Can’t say I’m surprised at the boos, and this is one of those situations where I’m not angry about it.
I agree. If Gleason initiated that contact with Ovie at VC and both players went down, I’d boo Gleason mercilessly, at least until I could see he’s really hurt. I’m generally in the “booing injured players is classless” camp, but this was an unusual case of what appeared to be simultaneous injuries.
I don’t boo hurt players.. period. I’ve posted this before, but they’re putting their bodies on the line every night for our entertainment. They’re people to me before players.
Gleason was up and in the locker-room in a matter of moments, while Ovechkin was down for what seemed like an eternity. The booing only got louder when he was being helped off, which is the typical ‘clapping’ period.
Classless.
by TFG on Dec 1, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hear your point, I just think Ovie initiating the contact for me is a mitigating circumstance in judging Carolina’s fans. I don’t boo injured players as a general rule, but if some Flyer or Pen had made that exact same hit on a Cap and VC and the Cap appeared as hurt as Gleason initially did, I would boo them mercilessly. Maybe not minutes later when being helped off the ice, but for at least part of it. And certainly when the penalty call is a major + game misconduct. And most of the VC would be booing them with me, right or wrong.
This isn’t like Eagles fans booing Irvin after his neck injury or any other situation where the injured opponent was to blame for the initial contact taking place. That’s all I’m saying.
It looks worse in hindsight because Gleason was the one that faked getting hurt to draw the call and Ovechkin was the one that was (at least mildly) injured from the play. At the time it would have been a tough call from their perspective.
I will say it could be mitigated even further if it were a case of them watching a replay of the hit rather than what was on the ice.
I’ve been in so many situations with guys injured, and I can honestly say I don’t ever remember a guy getting booed off the ice by the live fans. That’s as classless as it gets and there is no excuse or justification for it at all.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
“As a result of Alex Ovechkin’s knee to knee hit vs Carolina on Nov 30th, the league has handed Donald Brashear of the New York Rangers a 5 game suspension.”
Whew! Glad that’s cleared up….
by SA-Town on Dec 1, 2009 8:46 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I want to know when he'll be back.
I want to know when Alex Semin will be back from injury.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I know this is going to be an unpopular thought, but since they’re paying the guy, why not play Nylander? I mean, he can’t be any worse than Giroux. And I can’t believe that he can’t play 10 minutes a game — fourth line, quarterback the second power play unit, some PK — competently.
I’m not saying put him on the first line. What I’m saying is that he wins face-offs, knows how to play/pass, and already counts against the cap. What does the team have to lose?
Thought about this last night, but if they are still trying to actively work out a deal to get him to Russia, having problems with visas and such, they wouldn’t want to toss him in a game right now.
I’d vote for bringing up Aucoin, moving MP to wing with Backstrom and Fehr until 22/28 are back.
What I’m saying is that he wins face-offs, knows how to play/pass, and already counts against the cap.
1 of those is accurate.
Seriously though, his locker’s cleaned out. He’s skating on his own, away from the team. It’s a post-nuclear option, if that.
"Eloquence, brought to you by a peanut butter, egg and dice sandwich."
We’ll see Mel Gibson driving a dilapidated trailer before Nyls in a Caps jersey.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
by Rob Parker on Dec 1, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They’re already a good team sans AO, and Knuble will be back soon.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
FIRST AID
- The Bears reported no injuries.
Sure, rub it in, Bear Tracks.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 9:13 AM EST reply actions
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
by winterion on Dec 1, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Hit Slowed Down...
I slowed down the hit and took a screenshot (below) and you can see right when he is making contact he is leading with his shoulder with his head up and cutting hard (that’s why his right knee is exposed). You can see Gleason ducking and cutting hard as well. Comcast didn’t have this angle but from this view the hit doesn’t look that dirty…
by C-A-P-S Caps Caps Caps on Dec 1, 2009 9:24 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Same deal with the Gonchar hit, his victim tries to evade and gets his upper body moving, while AO tries to react and begins to cut in with his skate as if to turn and continue the hit. It’s just reckless. If you have to skate by him, you have to skate by him.
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
you have to skate by him
Even if it means going into the boards.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
You have time to take a screenshot but you have no avatar? Come on, you’re missing out on top fun and exciting prizes.
"Eloquence, brought to you by a peanut butter, egg and dice sandwich."
You don’t have to give in to the Avatar police.. Though, if you are going to give in, I’ll give you props for making it understandable at 32×32 and for the quality of choice.
Rules of the road and neighborhood.
"Eloquence, brought to you by a peanut butter, egg and dice sandwich."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 1, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Seriously. If Schultz would have been hitting Gleason like he’s supposed to, this never would have happened.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
This is why they need to move Green to winger
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
wingaahhhhhhr!
/Boston’d
"You punch him, he punches you, and you hope you get the best of it." - Matt Bradley
by mercurialwinger on Dec 1, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
On SportsDay this morning JoeB said that Ovi walked right in front of him with no crutches and little limp.
I know the NHL is trying to get beyond the point where every team has an enforcer in their lineup. But when your (and the Leagues’) Superstar is thrust into that position which I believe may be part of AO’s mindset, it’s time rethink the situation. Sure AO is a naturally aggressive player but if the Caps had a tough guy in the lineup (dare I say Brashear?) maybe the other teams would think twice about running Backstrom or Greenie, etc.
Somewhere in the DC area, F&B awoke in a cold sweat.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
And a serious head ache. That gin did a number. I missed the whole recap fun too.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
Yea, me too. It happened way past my bedtime.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
you would have just yelled at me in the recap :) we spent a good hour objectifying various players and singing the snipe snipe song.
I don’t now the snipe snipe song but I did see the puck bunny love.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
Shhh…there was no puckbunny love. Objectifying players is fun wrong.
…that’s my contribution to this thread, nothing I can add here otherwise that hasn’t already been said.
not a defense of brashear, but i’m wondering if any enforcer could be effective under BB. “our guy wanted to fight, their guy refused” has been the recurring theme. did BB’s hershey teams have an enforcer? was the enforcer allowed to do his job?
You’re right.. Brashear didn’t enforce outside of staged fights off faceoffs.
Today’s “enforcer” needs to be able to not only throw their body around (in the form of checks), but also play a bit of hockey. That being said, I don’t think an enforcer does much on this team anyway. Brashear had 119 hits last season. Ovechkin had 243, albeit in 16 more games.
Ovechkin’s gonna hit. Whether he’s feeling increased pressure to ‘enforce’ on his own this year, I’m not sure, but he’s going to hit.
How many games did McPhee say a team could use an enforcer in a given season? Two or three? we could have used one in about six or seven so far.
Or at least one! I remember the first time we beat the Flyers in 1980 Gary Green brought Archie Henderson up specifically for that game and he was a pretty big physical presence. I think he only played a few games after that but he had his role to play. Sorry I brought up Brashear, I was glad to see him go too but he was the first name that popped into my head when thinking of a “designated intimidator” for the Caps.
What would Brash do? Yell from the bench?
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
Like I said before, Brash was the first name that came to mind since we’ve had damn few thugs on the Caps recently. Let’s not kid ourselves, the McSorleys, Shultz’s, Domi’s etc. played their role. We don’t have that role player now and it’s not AO’s job to stand up for Backstrom or anyone but himself. It’s getting into the head of the opposition as much as anything else when these guys are on the ice. It gives them something something to worry about.
BTW, for Caps trivia fans Donald’s great uncle Carl Brashear was the US Navy’s first black Master Diver who was the subject of the film “Men of Honor” with Cuba Gooding and Robert DiNiro. I worked with a retired Navy MDV who was a technical advisor on the film and played a small role as a Chief on the ship. Heard some interesting stories about Uncle Carl.
The fighters you named did it in a different era. It was ok to basically force a guy to fight then, and there was much stronger social pressure to not turtle and take the fight.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
Ovechkin has a low, knees-bent skating style. You can see the same style when watching Mathieu Perreaut. He skates hard, and I do not believe in any way, shape, or form, from several re-watchings and a frame-by-frame analysis, that he was “leading with his knee.” Had Gleason not tried to dodge the hit, he would not have skated into Ovechkin’s knee. It would have been shoulder-to-chest. And yes, Gleason skated INTO Ovechkin’s knee; Ovechkin did not skate into Gleason knee-first.
I’m really waiting to hear what the league says. If they do suspend him for 1-3 games, it may help him throttle back a little, which would be good for him and the length of his career. I’m also waiting to see what happens with the injury; hopefully it’s nothing serious!
His knee was out in front of his body = he led with his knee.
by sixsevenfiftysix on Dec 1, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of Perreault – that boarding penalty he drew should have been a major. He got hit hard from behind into the boards, and got his neck snapped back. Instead, two minutes. Bull hockey.
by IRockTheRed on Dec 1, 2009 9:36 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
He can model himself after Daniel Craig, a fellow shorty.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
The lack of a call on Wallin when he charged Fehr late was also annoying.
"Eloquence, brought to you by a peanut butter, egg and dice sandwich."
Even better was that Fehr came out of the deal with the penalty. Wallin leaves his feet and draws a call. Unreal.
A man gotta have a code
Our forwards have to start head-butting sticks on the forecheck.
I’m brilliant.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Dec 1, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nit-picking here, but I don’t think it was on Wallin’s charge that Fehr got the high-sticking call. After he got smooshed, he was fencing with Wallin or Gleason in front of the net right after and tried to defend himself/dish out some payback with the butt of his stick, hence the penalty.
Another reason to call BS on the refereeing. Fehr shouldn’t have had to defend himself after such an obvious play. (Also, Baxter’s “hooking” penalty when the Cane practically wrapped himself around 19’s stick).
Yeah. Honestly, the league could hand out several suspensions for that game last night, and Ovie’s might end up being the weakest out of the potential bunch. The ’Canes gooned it up something fierce at the end there with some clear intent-to-injure.
the Canes came out in the third making the SlapShot guys look as tame a kittens. Look, I’m sorry you guys are terrible and I’m sorry it seems like the whole team is hurt, and I’m sorry you’re upset you’re losing to a team you hate, but seriously, that was ridiculous.
Where’s GMGM to go throw punches in their opposing team’s dressing room when you need him?
Where’s GMGM to go throw punches in their opposing team’s dressing room when you need him?
Our players won’t stick up for each other but at least the GM will. Seriously, someone like Jau Beagle really needs to take it upon himself to drop the gloves every now and then or get a little chippy (intelligently, of course).
J.P. – the Puck Daddy link in the second bullet links to WaPo instead. Just a heads up.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 9:37 AM EST reply actions
Heaven Forbid
I take a peek at what kind of maelstrom of hate is going on around the inter-web after last night’s incident and the recent rash of AO’s hits that toe the line of recklessness. I’m sure BReynolds has already added the video to his litany of A.O. “dirty” hits on his post-Kaleta incident posting over on the Hockey Wilderness.
"wanna go, pretty boy?" -Mr. Carl Racki
I may be the only one, but I don’t give a rat’s ass anymore about how other people classify Ovechkin (Dirty, hard hitting, yadda) because as said before, he just plays the game at a speed faster than anyone else, and he’s not sure yet when to pump the breaks. And as long as he stays healthy, I don’t care. He wins us games, and he’s fun as Hell to watch. I don’t give a damn that some tool thinks he’s dirty. I really don’t.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
the “he’s dirty, he’s clean” debate has long been my least favorite topic. AO, malkin, avery, whomever. it’s just never that clear. maybe a particular play was dirty, but the player? that’s beyond me to judge. you’re right…to me, today, the injury news is all that matters.
I completely agree…except when that classification leads to the league/refs shortening his leash to the point where he can’t play his game. THEN I care…a lot.
by SeattleCapsFan on Dec 1, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions
Like I said last night, always use the buddy system when leaving the Rink. It’s a dangerous place out there right now.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s probably good that I need to wait 24 hours before posting on BSH.
"Let the rest be scared of us." - Emo Bunny Sasha Semin
by Scott in Shaw on Dec 1, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Heh, I can tell that policy isn’t implemented at Hockey Wilderness.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Dec 1, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
Of course this didn't help alleviate my crankiness ...
RT BReynolds
(Makes a zipper motion across his mouth and points to link)
Puck Daddy
http://www.hockeywilderness.com
by BReynolds on Nov 30, 2009 9:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
and
Cough…
On Frozen Blog
http://www.hockeywilderness.com
by BReynolds on Dec 1, 2009 5:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
someone restrain me before I pull a Ballard on my computer’s noggin. please …
"wanna go, pretty boy?" -Mr. Carl Racki
I actually replied, against any better judgement I had.
Familiar Rapports: Bald Pollack, F&B, Gould Old Days.
Lobbies: Osala, Perreault, Erskine, Pothier, Neuvirth, Flash.
Fan of: Mean Lars Backstrom, Line Mashing, Cake.
ok, i'm out ...
hold the fort fellas. not that you need me to help anyways.
"wanna go, pretty boy?" -Mr. Carl Racki
The happiest guy in North America has to be Keith Ballard. On the night he machetes his own goalie, Ovechkin goes down, the Saints clobber NE and Tiger Woods still won’t talk to the cops.
No doubt. But he did get on SportsCenter. Guess that’s what you gotta do to get the NHL on there…hatchet job your own player.
He hatchet jobbed a lot of people’s fantasy teams, too! My GAA and SV% right now are at 13.48 and .600. Not winning those categories this week!
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Kipper did what he could to salvage one of the teams that I have Vokoun on. Wish I could say the same for CMason.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 1, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Wait, Tiger Woods killed a goalie in New England?
"Eloquence, brought to you by a peanut butter, egg and dice sandwich."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 1, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Report is that Savard is close to signing a deal for a 4.5-4.8 mil cap hit over 7 years
Give Nicky 5.5 over infinity.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
New number from Boston Globe via rotowire (I get half of my hockey news from my fantasy teams [of which Savard is not a member])
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I think the only team in worse cap shape than the B’s is Chicago. Oof.
It will help their cap some that the Murray buyout is coming off the books after this year, but they’ll have the Schaefer and Eaves buyouts costing them close to a million next year (and Lucic’s 4 year extension kicks in at a little over 4, not to mention Rask’s extension at 1 and 1.5 kicks in).
That Thomas contract is an albatross. 4 years is two too many for a guy who’s 35.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
That’s nuts. The guy’s going to be 40 years old at the end of that contract and he’s missed significant amounts of time due to injuries in 5 out of his last 10 seasons. The money is OK but the term is ridiculous.
I’d love to see the league institute some contract-length restrictions based on age when signed. Want to sign a 22 year old to a 12 year deal, fine, go ahead. But want to sign a 30 year old to a 20 year deal, hell no. It’s blatent cap circumvention and I hope McPhee doesn’t bite on the trend and lock up Pothier for 30 more years to make his cap hit less than 5k a year.
I hope McPhee doesn’t bite on the trend
Obviously it hasn’t worked out very well, but is the Nylander contract not an effort to do that?
I don’t think it was unreasonable at the time to expect Nylander to perform for the duration of his contract
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
Speaking of which, I didn’t expect a certain name to pop up on this Sporcle quiz, considering, er, the last two seasons’ worth of NHL play…
by red army line on Dec 2, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
what that tells me is that it’s definitely front-loaded, and they’re looking to buy out Savard. That cap hit for a guy of Savard’s ability… definitely not market-price. Only way that contract is market-priced is because of that term dragging down the hit. Argh
Why buy him out? If you intend to buy him out, capwise it makes more sense to backload it (you’ll end up getting a credit if things work out correctly).
More likely they’re looking to let him retire, or else just keep him for the duration. Depending on his health he’ll probably be pretty productive throughout, and if he is that’s an amazing cap hit.
To give some people some more background on your comment (about backloading creating a credit).
Back-loading doesn’t directly affect cap in buyout situations. What affects the cap is the years left on the SPC, and the amount of the buy-out (and length of the buy-out).
Let’s use Nylander as an example.
His cap hit is 4.875 next year, but the amount of $$ remaining on his deal is 3M. If the Caps choose to buy out his remaining deal and pay it all next year, he will still count as a 1.875M hit in 10/11. If they were to choose to pay half next year and half in 11/12, his cap hit would be 3.375 in 10/11 and 1.5 in 11/12.
In situations where contracts are back-loaded, it’s easier on the team to buy out the contract. For buyouts, years that would have been part of the SPC are counted against the cap as Cap Hit – Buyout Amount (in that year). If the yearly buyout amount is greater than Cap Hit, then it’s credited to the teams cap the following season.
Example, say Nylander’s deal was structured that he’d get 1M this year, and 10M in his last year. His cap hit is 5M/year. The Caps have to pay him 11M and choose to do so over 2 years, paying 5.5 per year. For each year of the buy out, the team recieves a 500k credit on the next season’s salary cap because their buy-out amount each year is more than the average salary.
Unfortunately, buy-outs are not as cut and dry as this. They can be written differently in each SPC and unless someone knows what Nyl’s buyout clause is, we have no idea what the cap hit will be. In either case, it’s better for us to absorb the financial hit and move him to Hershey next year if we can’t get some KHL team to take him.
And just for a little more context, the reason it was written this way was to keep teams from diluting their cap hit by adding lots of years at league minimum to the end of the contract, and then buying out those smaller-money years.
For example, if the Caps wanted to sign a guy for one year for $6 million, but instead signed him for $6 million, and then three years of $500k apiece (with the intention of buying out the 500k years), the cap hit would be much smaller. But with the current rules, buying out those 500k years would wreck their salary cap for many years, so teams don’t do this.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 2, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
That’ll take a chunk out of Carolina’s power play
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions
I’d say that hurts the Canes, but when you’re already in last place… At least no one is blaming Alzner.
Severed calf muscle, or nothing past the timeframe?
"Eloquence, brought to you by a peanut butter, egg and dice sandwich."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 1, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Ovie on the ice in sweatsuit
according to Corey and WashCaps tweets. He was out there for like five minutes.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Indeed. Still doesn’t mean much, like him walking without crutches, but you have to think the Caps trainers wouldn’t let him go out there if they thought his knee was seriously damaged.
I’m not sure – I thought guys can skate straight with no ACL with no problem, it’s just the turning that is difficult/painful/impossible. Or is that an MCL injury?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
That’s the MCI Injury, which is whatever happened to half the crowd when Matthieu Biron and/or Ivan Majesky were on the ice.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Dec 1, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
If they haven’t ruled out an ACL and still let him out on the ice, the entire training staff should be fired.
Especially if they can't perform as a TEAM.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Dec 1, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Turbo rec for reference, and a turbo rec for anyone else who gets it.
by TFG on Dec 1, 2009 11:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
way easier to continue to function without an ACL than an MCL. Turning and cutting corners tight would be a problem with no ACL, but someone with legs in really fantastic shape (like Ovie) might be able to get away with playing a very limited role on a torn ACL.
Al that said, it’s probably just a knee sprain if they let him on the ice. A mild one at that.
Why isn’t there more talk about how players need to be more responsible for where they put their bodies?
Guys playing on the boards should know not to turn their back flat against the glass. The hitter needs to try to be looking for that since it’s oh-so-common now.
Guys that are going to slip checks need to move their feet before they try to body weave. The hitter needs to be more aware of where their own body is, as well as the targets, if they get slipped.
This is just hockey and it’s inherently dangerous. We could do with a little bit less of thoughtless abandon from all sides.
IS MЯI NOW
by zephyr on Dec 1, 2009 10:49 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
These are the things that are very easy for us non-pro athletes to say.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Dec 1, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s easy for us to say that players should move their legs rather than just their bodies, but we don’t have 235 lb Ovechkin’s flying at us with ill intent, do we?
More clear?
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
by jordanDC on Dec 1, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s exactly why they should be moving their feet before their bodies. The rest of the body follows where the legs and hips go. These guys have been playing since they could walk in a lot of cases it’s second nature to do almost everything they do.
When a guy moves his body before his legs he’s thinking but not about hockey.
IS MЯI NOW
I just don’t think you can really fault a guy for trying to get himself out of the way any way he can when there’s a train bearing down on him.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Not intentionally though, which is my point. No player is going to glance up, see a player committed to a hit, and take the time to think “I had best move my leg so this gent doesn’t strike his upon mine and injure himself.” It’s more like “Oh sh-” and then you jump to the side.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
You’re missing the point and I guess when you grew up you didn’t play full check hockey.
Hockey reaction for these guys = moving out of the way, legs first body follows.
Non-hockey reaction and thinking = Oh shit I better try to slip this.
And the whole problem is that he didn’t JUMP to the side. He moved his shoulders out of the way. This is common sense. It’s Gleason’s fault as well.
I don’t know how much clearer I can be about how the blame falls on both parties.
IS MЯI NOW
I don’t appreciate your assumption.
Gleason was clearly in the middle of a hard turn (body at an angle to the ice, body weight committed to the move), which makes it hard to ‘just move your legs.’
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Why don’t you appreciate it? Is it not true?
If you are in the middle of a hard turn it’s even easier to just keep your legs moving since you have to try to stop. These guys are always moving. Gleason just moved his body trying to avoid shoulder to body contact – if he hadn’t of done that it would have been a hockey moment and they both would have brushed off and went from there.
This is getting far and away from what my post was about though. I’m not trying to micro-analyze what happened with Ovi and Gleason. I just think there should be much more talk about how responsibility lies on both sides with these type of things.
IS MЯI NOW
by zephyr on Dec 1, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I understand what you’re saying, but “keep your head on a swivel” isn’t just a cute cliché. Its more apropos of the boarding calls recently. But guys are turning and shying away from contact rather then reversing a check.
Guys that are going to slip checks need to move their feet before they try to body weave.
That was the point that Alan May made last night. He said that back when he was playing guys would stand up to the hit, now they try and duck away from it and they end up getting hurt much worse. If Gleason had tried to absorb the check, it would have been a big collision, but probably not much more. By trying to dive out of the way, he put himself at far greater risk for serious injury.
I dunno, sounds a little like Alan May is playing up the “players were much tougher back in my day” angle. Point well taken about ducking away leading to injuries, but If you don’t try and get out of the way you might end up like Paul Kariya or David Booth.
Vokoun didn’t try to dodge the hit and look what happened to him.
by Whisp on Dec 1, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He didn’t let his blocker live up to it’s name.
IS MЯI NOW
by zephyr on Dec 1, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Gonchar tried to dodge the check, got the knee.
Gleason tried to dodge the check, got the knee.
There’s a trend here, and there’s a reason getting freight trained is legal (usually) and kneeing isn’t.
Good point. That’s probably why you see ball carriers in football actually try to initiate the contact when they’re about to be tackled. It’s often when they get stretched out that the knee damage occurs. May also had another good point about how AO body checks. He said if he led more with his stick on the ice, he have more leeway to adjust to the other player and put his knees at less risk.
Caught that too. Still trying to understand why that’s true.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
Don’t see how that follows either. But I was a mediocre-to-bad youth hockey player, so what do I know?
"You're gonna eat that g**d**n Koho, three!"
Yeah, I was always taught to keep my stick down as a rule, but I never had it explained to me that it helps protect yourself. I don’t like when AO hits with his stick so high because it’s a high stick PIM waiting to happen and poor form but I never thought it was a health risk.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
Having your stick low on the ice helps to keep you square to your center of gravity giving you better balance to a certain extent. It’s not necessarily the stick per se, but the position of the stick on the ice is a more stable and natural position, allowing you to get better leverage as you go in for, or receive a hit, IMO.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 1, 2009 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Right, but how does it get your legs out of the way? Stick down or not AO has his wide stance and had already committed to throwing his weight into the hit. I don’t see how he avoids the knee on knee contact when a guy dodges him, even if his stick is down.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
Ah, missed that part. Maybe (in theory, and completely spitballing here) a player theoretically has more control of his stick when holding it in both hands above the ice and is thus able to make quicker lateral movements without having to worry about clipping a player for tripping or some other stick fowl. But if the player has the stick on the ice they have to pay a little more attention to the location and be a little more measured with their movements.
/BS
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 1, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
If you do try to dodge you could end up like Cam Neely or Pavel Bure or Bobby Orr.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 1, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Well, that would be a plus. I was thinking more along the lines of terrible knees.
Now drink with me deeply of the bourbon, scotch, and rye until such time as we are fighting drunk.
by Steckel Me Elmo on Dec 1, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Guys playing on the boards should know not to turn their back flat against the glass. The hitter needs to try to be looking for that since it’s oh-so-common now.
MP did a great job of this in the 3rd period last night. Knew he was going to get boarded, so he made sure his feet were close to the boards. Sure enough, he got squashed, but he came through it OK. That was a dirty hit — the hitter saw nothing but numbers — but it wasn’t all that dangerous because MP was aware.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Update on Ovechkin to come later
says a team official says Corey.
My guess is that the update is that there is no update and we have to wait for weeks to see if Ovechkin’s knee will be sent to CSKA.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
He can take his sweet time. Caps don’t play again til Thursday.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
At least AO will be ready for dollar hot dog night.
"Eloquence, brought to you by a peanut butter, egg and dice sandwich."
by Bald Pollack on Dec 1, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Alex Ovechkin is day-to-day with a sore knee.
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Bill Jaffe
Giving Baxter some serious love on NHL Live! Good for him.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
Glad to hear. Lost in the orgy of Ovi has been an outstanding effort by Baks last night. Glad someone was actually watching the game instead of watching the highlights and reading the blogosphere.
Is it just me or has Lars been showing up more frequently lately? Baks seems to no longer be taking crap from anyone.
A man gotta have a code
Definitely stepping up. I like how when he scores one goal, you can pretty much bet on there being 4 or 5 more over then next 10 games, too.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Dunno if it's just the angle, but
this picture of Lars helping AO off the ice makes him look monstrously huge.
IS SOЯE KИEE AND TЯACK SUIT NOW
That’s a hilarious photo. Short trainer and guys on skates and guys bent over make for some weird perspective distortions.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Not quite as out of proportion as this pic of Pronger and the Fla medical staff
IS SOЯE KИEE AND TЯACK SUIT NOW
JT60 was very good too. Although the ’Cans credited SOG seemed to be wayyyy too high, the Caps were shorthanded for at least 15 minutes, and JT stood strong.
Yes, he was. Take away the ill advised choice to try to play the puck late in the game and I thought it was pretty close to flawless on his part. Time off sure seemed to help.
A man gotta have a code
True. Can’t blame Jose for Alzner’s boner on that first goal against.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
Um. It was a PK so there was bound to be an open guy. Why was it Alzner’s boner? He was already covering the man in front of the goalie when Juice came over to double team him. The guy that scored was Corvo pinching from the point, not a guy you’d expect Alzner to be watching. Granted, it looks bad when a guy is wide open there and a man is double teamed 5 feet away, but I don’t see how you could tell Alzner to play that differently ex ante.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
On the replay I watched, it looked to me like Corvo had already pinched and was being watched by Alzner (Karl positioned between Joe and the net), but then Alzner joined his partner in roughing up the screener, leaving Corvo open to accept the pass and make the move.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
I’ll watch again but I distinctly remember Juice being the second man there. Alzner took the guy in front when the point shot was coming in and then the rebound went to Corvo and the guy in front was double teamed.
Opinions of yours I don't care about: Politics, Religion, Ovechkin.
I think Alzner expected Flash (who just failed at covering Staal, who got the initial shot off) to be covering the pinching defenseman. It does however look an awful lot like Alzner chose the double team instead of the pinch (maybe because Juice lost body position, so if 27 takes Corvo it’s a tap-in for Juice’s man).
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Is this Bret Hedican's way of announcing he has a twitter account?
Otherwise, I don’t know who would give a flying shit what he thinks or what he has to say.
Russian Machine very rarely breaks.
Where is the Fehr lobby hiding today? I thought they’d be out in full force.
A man gotta have a code
They both must still be asleep.
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
And in other injury news, I’m kinda feeling it for Morrisonn of the Shaone variety today:
Boudreau said Shaone Morrisonn is taking a “couple of days off and starting over” to try and come back from his concussion.
IS SOЯE KИEE AND TЯACK SUIT NOW
Not good. Hopefully he can see a specialist (if he hasn’t already) to take stock of where things are right now.
"Eloquence, brought to you by a peanut butter, egg and dice sandwich."
You know, now that we’ve heard Pothier’s story over and over, every time I hear “Player X still has concussion related symptoms”, I think that they need to see an eye doctor.
"No TV and no beer make Homer go something something."
Kurt Warner falls in this camp right now. He’s experiencing post-concussion visual issues that sound very similar to what Pothier went through. Much to my fantasy team’s dismay.
At this point he may not be back for a long, long time. I miss ShaMo’s steady play and how he seems to help Green’s confidence. ShaMo’s lack of panic has always been my favorite part of his play. He’s never going to be an all-star, but his confidence seems to always infect the guys he’s partnered with. I don’t think its a coincidence that Juice also looked at his best when partnered with ShaMo before Green arrived.
A man gotta have a code
How long until he gets retro’d to LTIR?
My ability to post is only surpassed by my ability to pinch pennies.
And on when Knuble returns as well depending on cap situation. I’ve lost track of how close the Caps are right now to the ceiling.
A man gotta have a code
Suppose Shamo gets shelved for the year – is it true that his salary gets freed up and we can use the pro-rated money to make a trade at the deadline?
Sort of. It gives the Capitals the option to exceed what would otherwise be their daily cap hit by the amount of Morrisonn’s daily cap hit.
Some of us can agree or disagree on Shamo’s on-ice contributions, but these concussions can ruin career. Hope for the best.
Pothier took the best part of a year, and made it back. I think BMo did too.
IS SOЯE KИEE AND TЯACK SUIT NOW
The best part of a year, and then some.
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Although like 8 were just figuring out he got astigmatism, and 3 getting back in form. (the first 3 or so actual concussion problem)
by red army line on Dec 1, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
From Bruce’s morning press scrum:
Q:Did Alex have an MRI or X-Ray today?
A: I’m not going to say whether he did or whether he didn’t [or] what the doctor said. We’re going to keep that between [the team].
safe to read as “Everything came back negative”?
Colon Campbell
will be the first person to offer a prognosis on Ovechkin’s return. Until there’s a decision on suspension, Caps prob’ly won’t confirm which half of Ovi’s body includes his knee.
Ovie's suspension
Ovie suspended two games. Dumb question here, but do games he misses while day-to-day count? I assume not.
In another thread, Resolute claimed that the NHL has a team of doctors that would pronounce Ovie clear to play (i.e., in order to serve a suspension) so that total games gone = injury + suspension.
Personally, I find it hard to believe that the NHL has a roving team of medics whose only job is to go around the league and make sure players are cleared to serve their punishments. But…what do I know?
I suspect that’s why he skated for a few minutes today.
PЯACTICING – SUSPENSION STAЯTS NOW
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Dec 1, 2009 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
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