Monday Caps Clips: Caps @ Senators Game Day
by J.P. on Nov 23, 2009 6:40 AM EST
in Caps Clips
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PrintYour savory breakfast links:
- Previews of tonight's match-up of nation's capitals from NHL.com and Peerless, and be sure to check out our SB Nation partner Silver Seven for coverage from the other side of tonight's match up.
- With injuries aplenty and a third game in four days, tonight will be a challenge for the Caps. [Washington Post]
- Brian Pothier is giving the Caps a desperately needed second offensive threat from the blueline. [Washington Times]
- Ever wonder what it takes for a team to get out of town and ready for the second game of a back-to-back in another city? Wonder no more. [OFB]
- A frustrated Alex Ovechkin after the Leafs game. [National Post]
- After the jump, Mike Green's life as a movie (via ESPN the Mag), including who plays GreenLife52 (here's a hint).
- You didn't think Green could go to Toronto and not be asked about the possibility of making Team Canada, did you? [Toronto Sun]
- Related: Damien Cox with a pretty accurate observation regarding Green. [The Star]
- The Caps stand fourth overall in Ross McKeon's first-quarter power rankings. [Y!]
- A postgame ... buffering ... chat about the Caps ... buffering ... following Saturday night's loss (and ... buffering ... featuring Corey Masisak). [The Hockey News]
- Really cool shots from Friday night's Caps/Habs game. [Tic Tac Toe Hockey]
- And some nice shots from Saturday's Bears/Falcons game. [Caps In Pictures]
- Are the Caps "one-way offensive divas?" That seems to be the implication. [Edmonton Journal]
- Semyon Varlamov is apparently fourth on the Russian depth chart for Vancouver, but if he keeps playing the way he has been, they'd be crazy to leave him off the roster. [The Hockey News]
- More on that last point (or at least the "playing the way he has been" part). [CP]
- Call me a homer, but Varly - top 15 in the NHL in all three major goalie stat categories and tops in point percentage (min. 5 games) - has gotta be one of the top five rookies in the League right now, no? [The Star]
- Cody Eakin has already matched his goal totals from last season and is leading the WHL in goals. [TSN]
- Finally, happy 22nd birthday, Nicklas Backstrom (and happy second anniversary to Bruce Boudreau's first NHL win).
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Hershey game
Was pretty good Saturday (was in Section 209). I liked what I saw out of Holtby…seems to be a really good athlete.
That Power Play though….oof….
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 23, 2009 7:47 AM EST reply actions
That “Aucoin-Giroux” magic wasn’t working?
Did you see anything out of OO?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Aucoin and Rooster both had goals themselves, but other than that the offense was “meh”. I’ll chalk it up to having had to play in Providence the night before.
Alzner had a rough night…lost more than a few passes coming to him at the point.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 23, 2009 8:01 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t really notice much out of Osala
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 23, 2009 8:01 AM EST up reply actions
Trevor Bruess really impressed me though…love watching the guy play. He hits anything that moves.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 23, 2009 8:11 AM EST up reply actions
And holy god, that was before I saw the newspaper ad for Mike Green’s movie.
The boy needs to be taught about good movies and adequate directors, eh?
We all know that he’d want Scorcese the moment he watches The Departed, because, after all, Green really is just a hard-luck kid from Boston hiding a secret identity in a thick accent with hot psychiatrists after him.
We can lead you, Mike, if you let us.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 23, 2009 7:51 AM EST up reply actions
!
If Michael Bay directed GreenLife52 the Movie, then it would basically chronicle his daily routine, except everywhere he went would explode: He wakes up in his penthouse apartment. It explodes. He goes to Kettler for practice. It explodes. He goes to Verizon for the game. It explodes. He drives how in his lambo. A car chase ensues. It explodes…
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 8:01 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Perhaps Bay is the perfect director for that movie, then.
by DrinkingPartner on Nov 23, 2009 8:02 AM EST up reply actions
It also needs a sappy love interest that ends tragically.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 8:24 AM EST up reply actions
Does crabs count as a tragic ending?
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
He then gets crabs. They explode…
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
depends on whether they’re seasoned with Old Bay or some cheap imitation.
Because now I can justify browsing and commenting during the work day with the argument that I am promoting my business.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 23, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Back when Terminator 2 came out, Linda Hamilton hosted SNL. Thought it was gonna be cool because they specificallly mentioned that they would show some footage of her/my hometown of Salisbury, MD. I was in college in Dallas at the time, so it would be good to see some of home. What they did was just narrate these random pictures (none from back home) and then blow them up. ie…this is my parents house and then it would explode.
by HateOffSeason on Nov 23, 2009 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
I am not at all shocked that Green would pick Michael Bay as the director.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 23, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Happy Anniversary Coach Boudreau!
How’s this for symmetry – a win tonight would be his 101st.
And in the interests of symmetry, here’s a look back at his first game behind the Capitals’ bench. If we read it carefully and with two years’ worth of context, we can spot some familiar themes:
1. Backstrom displays phenomenal playmaking hockey sense with the game on the line, controlling the puck ‘til his instinct tells him he’ll have the advantage.
2. Ovie Unleashed will find a way even with damaged equipment. No stick handle? No worries! Here you go, Nicky! Russian Machine never gives up!
3. The team has a comfortable 3-0 lead with five minutes left in Period Two, which naturally is an excellent time for the team’s captain to challenge the other guys Scott Hartnell to a fight (did I mention they were playing the Flyers? In the Flyers’ building?) thereby incurring 19 minutes’ worth of penalties, a game misconduct, and a Danny Briere goal.
4. The opposing forward (Hartnell) is labeled "rugged."
5. The captain is quoted as saying, "I’m not really in any shape to be fighting, but… "
6. An opposing forward outmuscles Jeff Schultz on the way to a goal to make it a one-point game.
7. Game is tied with 5 or so minutes left in Period Three when the Caps’ netminder doesn’t control the rebound.
8. Tom Poti is assessed a slashing penalty late in the game, the penalty is killed and the game goes to OT.
9. Sasha Semin has a minor injury and does not play.
10. A Hershey boy gets the nod for the first goal. (Coach Boudreau corrrectly predicted that everyone would be looking at Ovechkin and Greenie could sneak through and score. They did, and he did. Heads up hockey, Gabby!)
11. The CI commenters demand that Schultz be fired or traded, did you see him cough up that puck!
SO FЯIENDS, IS BATTLE NOW.
Varly may be under the radar right now for ROY, but if he keeps playing like he’s doing now he’ll be top three by the end of the season. Remember, Steve Mason wasn’t even in the picture this time last year. If Varly takes over the #1 spot and the Caps continue to contend for #1 in the East, it will be hard for the voters to ignore him.
Flashy forwards with gaudy point totals will always carry the day. Varly will have to play lights out on a regular basis to even get consideration, is my guess.
Honestly, a nomination is sometimes just as honorable as actually winning the trophy, especially if the votes are that close. See Datsyuk/Richards or Chara/Green last year.
I still think Backstrom deserved the Calder that year, and he showed in his sophomore season why. But in reality, I’d rather he lose the trophy and not have a slump to follow, so I’m fine with it.
You can’t compare forwards to goalies. Period.
I really thought the Chicago boys would split the vote, allowing Nicky to win. C’est la vie. He sure as hell had a better sophomore season.
No matter what Varly does, and despite the fact that he plays behind a defensive scheme that makes a New Orleans levy look like it can withstand a cat 5 hurricane, there will always be those who will say "Yeah, but he doesn’t have to be that good to get a win! Look at that offense!)
no, that’s because Ovie’s better :p
by RedBirdie on Nov 23, 2009 10:36 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That and I think that many people forget that he’s actually a rookie since he built such a high profile last year.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 23, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
Late addition to the Clips, this quote from Damien Cox:
You watch the Capitals on Saturday night and see Mike Green commit a horrific giveaway in the final seconds of OT and you think there’s no chance the talented blueliner can be part of the Olympic. He’s super-skilled, but oh-so-casual and a little too-cool-for-school.
Hard to argue.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Nov 23, 2009 8:53 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Nothing-like-hyphenated-descriptors-to-make-a-point.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
have to say at this point instead of all the media fluff this team gets, a little hard knox love of here is where your basic troubles are might be good for them to read. Apparently the coaches aren’t getting it through their heads otherwise, or so it would seem.
Promote the game, it's the NHL, not SCHL
Green not making the Olympics might the best thing that could happen for the Caps. Not only would Mike be extra motivated to prove to the Canadian Olympic management that they were wrong in not selecting him, he’d also be rested for the playoff run.
by b.orr4 on Nov 23, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That’s kind of the way I feel about any of our guys. We’ve got too many shoo-ins. It’s great to make the Olympic team, but then you keep seeing articles talking about how the extra games end up wearing on the players, and teams with large numbers of Olympians have a history of fading in the playoffs. That could be us this year, and I don’t like the thought.
Difficult to argue, but then again, Green makes everything look oh-so-casual. That part is a little off, IMO, though the jist of it—giveaways—is spot on.
by red army line on Nov 23, 2009 9:13 AM EST up reply actions
Ever wonder what it takes for a team to get out of town and ready for the second game of a back-to-back in another city? Wonder no more. [OFB]
This is another example of OFB at their best. They really excel at being the fly on the wall — the regular fan who has extraordinary access. It’s a great piece.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
I agree with it being fascinating. One question not answered, which I guess we’ll find out tonight. Last year, when the Caps requested that the Leafs come in the home darks so they could wear white, Toronto cleared it with the other team on their trip so they wouldn’t have to bring both sets of uniforms. I assume the same applies to the Caps on this trip and we’ll see them in the home reds again tonight.
Personally, this is what I go to OFB for. I don’t read them for the hard analysis. I read them for the human interest factor they bring. Call it a puff piece if you want, but that’s the kind of stuff I expect from them. Nothing wrong with a little balance in your reading.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 9:45 AM EST up reply actions
yeah, very cool article. i always kind of wondered how that went and how crazy it was.
"No Brooks Laich, no win. Know Brooks Laich, know win."
by kellobellow on Nov 23, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
Has Nylander given up on his hockey career at this point and just wants to collect his paycheck the rest of the year?
That game on Saturday was just ugly. The guys looked like they were skating with 20 lbs weights strapped to their ankles. I wonder if one day of rest is enough or are we going to see more of the same tonight?
Lobbies: Green, Carlson
Has Nylander given up on his hockey career at this point and just wants to collect his paycheck the rest of the year?
I very highly doubt that. To the contrary, I believe he thinks he can still play in the NHL (and he certainly wants to), and that an opportunity in the NHL might open up as the season goes on, so he doesn’t want to commit to spending the year in Russia. I doubt it’s much more complicated than that.
I also have concerns about Saturday night’s energy level carrying over to tonight.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Has Nylander given up on his hockey career at this point and just wants to collect his paycheck the rest of the year?
I don’t know, it sure gives that appearance. Since he’s been waived, if they trade him, is it to an NHL roster, or does he have to go through re-entry? I keep getting confused on that. So you think he’s waiting for the trade deadline, when someone might be willing to pay what’s left on this year, and dump him next year?
I wonder if the NHLPA, thoroughly moribund as it might be, will get involved (quietly) at some point. Nylander is a bright shiny object lesson to every club in the league about the perils of the no-movement clause. Sure, everyone could conceive of the problems in theory, but here they are in stark relief. The Caps were unable to swing a deadline day deal last year; they are unable to engage in the normal sorts of player movement between parent and AHL club, with reason #1 being Nylander’s contract status. It could have ramifications for such provisions in any future deals and teams’ willingness to agree. Mike, you’re ruining things for your union brothers. Lighten up, take the deal.
If you've read this far...seek help.
That’s a good point. He really is singlehandedly teaching every GM in the League a lesson at the expense of future free agents.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Does he really think another NHL team will sign him? In that case, does he really believe he will go to a contender? It would not surprise me, given the number of players doing the conga to the IR, that some team picks him up.
I think other GM’S are waiting for that cap hit to come down but by bit – I dont think he will be available at the deadline. I just dont believe Nyls feels, or should be obligated to feel, compasssion for the GM who gave him the golden parachute.
by S h a g g y on Nov 23, 2009 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
Another NHL team can’t sign him, but yeah, I think he knows that the longer he drags this out, the more palatable his cap hit becomes.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I realize that, I was referring to a trade, since I believe a call-up now involves re-entry and he would be a major cap hit for this and next season, correct?
by S h a g g y on Nov 23, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
If he was put on re-entry waivers and claimed, the Caps would be on the hook for half his cap hit for the rest of this season and next, yes.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
It’s clear that Nyls is going to do what’s best for Nyls. That’s his right but it doesn’t mean we have to like it.
Backing up for a moment on this, after his stint in Grand Rapids, didn’t the team tell him not to come back to Kettler? So, he’s cleared waivers, but hasn’t approved a transfer anywhere. He can work out and skate, but not with the team, and doesn’t have access to the first class facilities and training? Isn’t he hurting himself as much as the team? How is that helping his worth to another NHL team, at even a re-entry price (not that it’s happening, just throwing it out there). At what point is even a KHL team going to say he’s not worth the bother?
Why should he be strong-armed into a deal that he may not want? As much as he might succeed in the KHL, there are other things that have to be considered…to start the medical care of players, salaries not being met and the simple fact that he doesn’t want to move to Russia. It’s not like we’re talking about a crappy NHL franchise.
It sucks that this is dragging out…for all of the parties. But I’m not to the point that I’m blaming Nylander.
salaries not being met
This is irrelevant here, as the Caps pay his entire salary whether he’s here or there.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Nov 23, 2009 10:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is irrelevant here, as the Caps pay his entire salary whether he’s here or there.
Obviously the salary is coming from DC, that point has been made god only knows how many times. But I think irrelevant is a bit too much as it speaks to the financial status of inividual teams (if not the league as a whole).
As an attorney, would you go to work for a new firm, in a foreign place, that couldn’t pay its employees….even if your salary was being paid from another source?
Thats it, how many of us would take a transfer to rural Qatar or India when we felt there was an opportunity to continue working in the US or Canada? I don’t blame him at all.
"I think the relentless negative coverage in The Washington Post is a real difference from previous years," Redskins general counsel David Donovan said. "But in terms of the way our actual fans are behaving, we don't see any difference."
yeah, but the difference between us and Nylander is we probably couldn’t be chilling out in the US collecting a paycheck while not actually working. If you wanna eat, sometimes you have to take that job in Qatar.
Another thing to consider is that NHLers love their job and can’t see themselves doing much else, while some of us couldn’t say the same (I enjoy my job just fine, for the record). Hockey is in their blood and they want to be out there on that ice.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Not only is that irrelevant it’s dodging the question and the issue. You’re right it is a little bit different for a professional athlete…especialy when discussing the NHL vs. the KHL. But similar scenarios happen in the real world…my job is moving to Fort Knox. If I don’t move, I don’t get to keep collecting a check, but I’m sure as hell taking my time in considering my options.
You ever tell your boss you play for the love of the game?
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
Not exactly…almost every day I remind him of how up shits creek he’d be without me. The few days I don’t do that (usually my bad mood days) I let him know that he’s a godless communist.
Well, you mentioned the salary and not the overall financial state of the league (though I now realize you were using the former as a proxy for the latter; had you mentioned the latter, I wouldn’t have made the point I did). All I was saying is that “who’s signing the check” isn’t really a valid concern.
As for your hypo… if someone was on the hook for my salary for the next two years, I’d sit on my ass here blogging, drinking beer and collecting a paycheck rather than moving ten feet to do any actual work. But that’s just me.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Nov 23, 2009 10:16 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nylander is a bright shiny object lesson to every club in the league about the perils of the no-movement clause.
Particularly when it comes to aging veterans and huge salaries. The Senators were able to find a place for Heatley because he’s young enough and good enough for the Sharks to keep him in their lineup for years to come. That same argument doesn’t hold true for Nylander. Thus the Caps are stuck with an over-priced, over-aged commodity noone wants and they can’t move. The sad part is his delusions about playing in the NHL could cost the team a legitimate shot at the Cup this year.
If anything, I think that it goes the other way. I don’t think GMs were fully aware (and some continue not to be) about the perils of the NMC as it relates to the cap. It’s really more to the player’s benefit anyway (so the Union’s fine with it), so until the Waddells and Lawtons of the world wise up, I don’t see how it goes away.
"I'm just doing karate and trying to get females pregnant."
by Bald Pollack on Nov 23, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
I also have concerns about Saturday night’s energy level carrying over to tonight.
I’ve heard more than one player say that the third game in four nights is much tougher physically than a back to back game, so tonight could get ugly. What we’re seeing is that when the Caps lose two out of their top six forwards and three out of their top six defensemen, the Caps are an average team. Of course, that doesn’t say much for the average teams that the Caps have to lose so many guys before they get to their level.
This is one of those games where I’m not looking for Matt Bradley or Brian Pothier or Chris Clark to step up, but for AO. The team feeds off his energy, and if it’s not there, they’ll have trouble. But if it’s the game is vintage AO, the Caps have more than enough to take two points tonight.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Agreed, but I think Ovehckin’s conditioning is below par. The shoulder may be healed, but the time off has hurt his speed and wind. Elite athletes are like race horses, if they miss their workouts they get slugish come race day.
Yet he has 2 goals since he’s returned – amazing.
by S h a g g y on Nov 23, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
2 goals in 3 games, right? He sucks so much. The Caps should trade him.
CI’d, sorta
by red army line on Nov 23, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
The back-to-back games prolly helped his conditioning quite nicely. And hopefully the Scotiabank Center is colder than the ACC was.
SO FЯIENDS, IS BATTLE NOW.
If it’s as cold as my office is right now, it shouldn’t be a problem.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
It’ll be a balmy 5-7c in Kanata today.
"I'm just doing karate and trying to get females pregnant."
by Bald Pollack on Nov 23, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Double it and add 30, for a rough rule of thumb for conversion to Fahrenheit, for those who care. At least that’s what I’ve carried with me since flight school.
Don’t matter what the outside temperature is. Only the ice-level temp in the arena. Which in Toronto is kept ridiculously warm at the request of the suits that occupy the premium seats in the lower bowl.
SO FЯIENDS, IS BATTLE NOW.
I was just passing along a useless tidbit of information.
But since you brought it up, are you suggesting that the outside elements have nothing to do with the ability to climate control the arena, and thus, the ice surface? I don’t think I would agree with that.
I think it’s a pretty useful tidbit, personally. And the outside temp most definitely affects the difficulty of maintaining the inside temp.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Not only temp, but humidity as well (even moreso, in fact).
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I think we are talking about two different things, but that’s my fault for not being clear.
I was referencing the fact that the ice-level air temperature at Air Canada Centre is notoriously warm and the athletes have trouble playing there because of it.
The air temperature in the arena is warm at ice level at the request of the corporate ticket holders.
SO FЯIENDS, IS BATTLE NOW.
Right – one shot on goal through his first four-plus periods upon return speaks to that, I think.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
The Edmonton Journal article
So I clicked on the Edmonton Journal article (or is it Vancouver Sun?) thinking the subject of the article was the Caps’ one-dimensional play. Turns out the article is about Chicago, while the Caps are only mentioned in passing. Apparently we are one-dimensional enough that we have become the standard for comparison?
The article sites goals against and penalty kill as counter-examples for the Blackhawks. I was ready to call shenanigans on that comparison until I checked the BTN data. At even strength, the ‘Hawks have 33 GA with an average of 1.9 GA per 60. The Caps have 41 GA with an average of 2.3 GA per 60.
The penalty kill data is more revealing. On the PK (4-on-5 at least), The ‘Hawks have 9 GA and 4.1 per 60. The Caps have 19 GA and 8.0 per 60. The Caps have also spent more time on the PK. "One-way offensive divas" is pretty harsh and is sensationalizing the issue, but in the context of the article, I think the comparison has some validity to it. It’s still early in the season though.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 9:34 AM EST reply actions
I can see a player being called a “one-way offensive diva,” but using the term to refer to a team is a gross oversimplification. Even if defense isn’t the Caps’ strong suit, it’s hard to accuse them of being “one-way offensive” (nevermind the additional editorializing) given the roster they ice on any given night.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I agree. I think they could have used the Caps comparison in in a better context than they did. If they would have backed up the claim with some data, or at least expanded on it a little, they could have had some substance there. Instead, they threw in a vague cheap shot at the Caps’ expense, and it added nothing to the article.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
Yep. Alas, the ’Hawks still have their Cup dreams pinned on Cristobal Huet…
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
How I long to move out of that glass house.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
At least your house, upon closer inspection, is looking more and more like shatter-proof glass.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
That’s because our glass house was provided by Thompson Creek Windows.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Koken looks scary in those ads.
Ron and Fez 11 to 3
by YvonLabresMoustache on Nov 23, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
No doubt. Cracks me up when he bends over so a big circle could be drawn around his arse, uh, wallet.
"I play Russian roulette every day - a man's sport - with a bullet called life"
Alas, we won’t know until the nasty spring weather tests it. Just in case I’m keeping my kids and electronics toward the interior.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
Amen to that. Wouldn’t hurt to transplant a big tree out front to absorb some of that weather, either.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Nov 23, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Don’t think the current property taxes will allow that though. Would be helpful if we could sell that dacha in Russia that’s become a financial drain.
by Cluster on Nov 23, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Just gotta make sure to position the tree so as not to obstruct the view, and so the tree won’t fall onto the house during the bad weather.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
Yep. Alas, the ’Hawks still have their Cup dreams pinned on Cristobal Huet…
and Marian Hossa. And we all know what that means……..Toronto and Carolina have a better shot at winning the Cup this season than Chicago.
Yes, but Chicago has a much better chance of losing the Cup Final this season than Toronto or Carolina.
Winterion Game Studios
Visit us online at : http://winterion.com
that’s what we like about you, witerion, always looking at the glass half full! “much better chance of losing the Cup Final” indeed!
If they want to guarantee that then they need to sign Ty Conklin.
"Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 23, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
So does everyone on the team not named Varly/Bradley get a red arrow or no change this week?
Lobbies: Green, Carlson
You’ll see in… an hour and five minutes.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
I know i may be able to find this by doing some searching..but it’s been a real busy morning – Any word on Semin and his chances of playing tonight?
what was all this 1 in a million talk?
by aaw6848 on Nov 23, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Mike Green has terrible taste in everything, movies, fashion, strip clubs…
by CaptainAwesome on Nov 23, 2009 10:20 AM EST reply actions
Btw, any thoughts on this? Bruce, Nov. 4:
Asked if there are any concerns that Ovechkin may try to rush himself back into the lineup considering his high threshold for pain and history of playing through injuries, Boudreau said the team will protect the winger from himself — if it comes to that.
"We’ve got a pretty good medical staff here," Boudreau said. "We want to guard against that. At the same time, there’s nothing coaches and managers love more than a player who wants to get back sooner than his injury has supposedly called for. But we will make sure when he steps on the ice that there’s no chance of him hurting the same injury."
Boudreau also acknowledged that Ovechkin came back from his injury a little early, which might be behind the reason he still looks off to so many observers.
“I thought he was better than last night,” Boudreau said. “When he first came back, he wasn’t a 100 percent. A guy like Alex , just wanted to play. And so he played. He’ll be better against Ottawa. That was an injury …a lot of guys would have been out another week or two. I’m not worried about him.”
I don’t think there’s anything necessarily contradictory there (at least literally), but it’s as I said at the time, Reality check: Ovechkin will decide when Ovechkin will play again.
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Reality check: Ovechkin will decide when Ovechkin will play again.
If I were a gambling man, I’d say the trainers/doctors probably said (to all parties….coaches, GMGM and Ovechkin) he has the green light to play, though they’d recommend another few games in the press box. Ovechkin decided he’s ready to go…management isn’t going to argue because Ovechkin at 70%-80% is still better than no Ovechkin at all.
Plus Ovechkin at 70%-80% is still better than a large majority of the forwards out there.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
70% of AO’s production last year would’ve been 39 goals and 37 assists. That wouldv’e put him 24th in the League in points and ninth in goals. Amazing.
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Wow. That’s impressive. Nice to know the data back up my vague conjecture.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t like it one bit, especially if it a.) can be something that lingers all season long and causes team-wide distraction and b.) isn’t good enough to the point where something relatively minor can re-aggravate it. Unless the President’s Trophy is this season’s goal, I’m not sure I get the motive to rush him back. Ovechkin is the franchise…but he also needs to be protected and safe-guarded.
I don’t like it either. The #1 priority for this team is to prepare for the playoffs, even in November. Bringing Ovechkin back early does nothing for their Stanley Cup chances. It’s just careless player management if you ask me. Why can’t they just tell Ovie he has to sit? What’s the worst that can happen?
Comcast Ratings
Anyone know where to look for average viewers for Wizards and Caps games on CSN HD? I’m frustrated that the powers that be continue to put a losing product (Wizards) in HD while relegating the Caps to CSN+.
I don’t, but this sounds like something Steinberg might be willing to look into. Assuming he can tear himself away from the Redskins, of course.
Lepore wouldn’t have the RSN numbers or the Wiz numbers, I don’t think.
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Not sure where you’d find that, but Steinz touched on it earlier in the year.
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Based on that it looks like I’m going to have to campaign Cox to use their reserved HD channel. Good information even though it’s the complete opposite of what I was looking for.
I passed along a request to Steinz for an update to that post.
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also, that’s 1.6 rating includes a Cavs game. You know, a team that people HATE. I bet if the Wiz played the Oklahoma Tornadoes/Dust Devils/Whatever name they settled on, the numbers might look a little different.
The channels each game is on is decided before the season. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but when I checked at the beginning of the season, both teams had 14 games on CSN-.
That’s about as fair as it gets, not knowing how each team will do as the season progresses. With Arenas back, you’d at least figure the Wizards would be running at .500 instead of 3-9.
Also note the Caps have been pushed to CSN- for Maryland Basketball as well.
Interesting. Thanks. I guess we just haven’t gotten to any of the Wizards being relegated to CSN+ yet.
The real problem is Comcast’s refusal to sport a second HD channel.. it’s absolutely absurd nowadays.
It’s almost 2010! We’re supposed to have flying cars, robots that do more than vacuum, and field trips to the Moon by now… and we can’t even watch a hefty chunk of the season in HD.
My guess is that there is a significant cost increase by maintaining two sets of HD equipment. MASN has the same issue. It’s not like that’s much of an excuse though.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I thought…THOUGHT…that when away from the Phone Booth, that Comcast uses the home teams cameras/feed, which is why there a few games a year that simply aren’t in HD.
this may be the case. Several years back, an acquaintance told me its terribly expensive to haul all that stuff around the country, and sometimes its just not possible to get the truck to point A to point B when games are played back to back (this was for baseball, but I assume it applies to all sports). So lots of times, they just sucked it up and used the home teams feed.
Ah, you could be right. MASN supports two team who could be home at the same time whereas CSN supports two teams that share a building. Maybe maintaining an HD feed is more difficult than we think? I’m not really sure at this point.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Doesn’t really explain the Toronto game though – the game was being shown in HD for HNIC on CBC. In fact, DC residents were the only folks forced to watch that game in standard definition, as it was also being shown in HD on the NHL Network (for at least those with it in HD).
Related: At least in Montgomery County, I believe NHLN-HD should be coming in December, at least last I checked.
I’m assuming that’s part of a sports package or something?
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Somewhat surprisingly, the Kings and Warriors — both recent cellar dwellers — are outdrawing the Sharks, who sit atop the NHL standings.
The same exact thing can be said for the Caps/Wizards, but that’s not surprising?
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
but again, as was pointed out, several of the Caps “big” games were on Vs., not CSN. I’m gonna wait until the end of the season before worrying too much. The Wiz pulled in a monster rating against the Cavs that is going to keep their season-to-date average quite high.
and six billion games on Crapcast isn’t helping the Caps figures, I would guess.
Damn, kind of makes it hard to pitch a bitch. Still, it annoys me to no end that the Leafs games was on NHLN/HNiC, broadcast in HD everywhere, yet we are forced to watch it locally on crummy CSN+. I mean hell, I pay for NFLN as a part of my Fios package, dammit, I oughta be able to watch what ever they are showing on it.
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by winterion on Nov 23, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The rookies top 5 link isn’t working for me, anybody want to post the list?
"And next year it will be ours."
I played around and eventually found it. http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/729383—confident-john-tavares-tunes-out-the-hype-and-sticks-to-game-plan
It’s the left sidebar.
Yeah, what a surprise that nearly all of the rookies mentioned in the article are putting up big numbers.
"Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback."
by The Ghost of Bebop on Nov 23, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
Tyler Myers is gonna get Drew Doughty’d in the Calder voting this year.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 23, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
I hope we get most of the regulars back pretty soon or at least Semin and Knuble because looking at the Dec schedule it looks pretty tough, Devils, Flyers, Canucks, Sharks, Sabres twice, Avalanche, and Tampaa are among some of the teams the Caps are facing.
Lobbies: Green, Carlson
To the Rink Rats that attended the “First Day Jitters” panel at CapsCon – what are the odds Brian Pothier ordered out for pizza last night?
LOL.
SO FЯIENDS, IS BATTLE NOW.
Rookies
For a guy like Varly who played a few games last year, is he still considered a Rookie?
What qualifies for a rookie year, your first full NHL year or when you first got called up? Is there a certain number of games you have to play?
It’s the number of NHL games played. I believe it’s 25 or something like that.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
I believe you are still a rookie if you played less than 30 games the previous season. So, Varly is still a rookie, but Karl Alzner isn’t. There’s also an age limit for ROY consideration. Off the top of my head, I want to say you can not have reached your 26th birthday. So, Tyler Sloan played less than 30 games last season, but is older than 26 this season, so it doesn’t matter if he suddenly morphs into the greatest D-man EVAH, he’s ineligible for ROY.
Me either, I thought he had been held below that bar last season. But hey, if he got a Calder Cup instead of a Calder Trophy, that’s not too bad.
"Camaraderie, that's what the Washington Capitals are all about."
by CapitalCentre on Nov 23, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
To be eligible for the [Calder Trophy], a player cannot have played more than 25 games in any single preceding season nor in six or more games in each of any two preceding seasons in any major professional league. The player must not be older than 26 years before September 15 of the season in which he is eligible.
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I don’t think it is. I searched the CBA for “rookie” and “calder” but didn’t find anything specific.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
No, awards and the like aren’t the stuff of which CBAs are comprised.
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Not questioning you, but that can’t be right. Specifically “nor in six or more games in each of any two preceding seasons in any major professional league.” Backstrom played in the SEL for two full seasons before coming to the NHL, but was RoY runner up. Malkin had at least 2 full RSL seasons. Unless “major professional league” means “The NHL” then I don’t see how that adds up.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
Could be, but that’s an incredibly stupid way to express that sentiment. Andrew Raycroft spent about 2 years in the AHL before winning RoY (though under the previous CBA which may not have had this term). I’d be willing to bet you could still win the RoY after spending a couple years in the AHL (assuming you meet the NHL games played requirement).
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
The NHL here currently defines itself as the only “major professional league” in the world. The line was put in so players couldn’t win the Calder when coming over from the WHA (see Gretzky, Wayne), but hasn’t applied to any other league since. Maybe the NHL will include the KHL in their interpretation someday, but for now, it just means NHL.
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(FWIW, if the RSL – precursor to the KHL – was considered a “major professional league,” Varly would be Calder-ineligible this year.)
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I think if the RSL was considered a major professional league then AO and Malkin would be ineligible. It’s just absolutely ridiculous to use the phrase “major professional league” when you mean “this league.” Not that I’m shocked.
And the age restriction was put in because of Sergei Makarov (who could have also been disqualified by the “major professional league” wording, if … oh never mind).
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
Well, it gives them the flexibility to use it as they see fit without having to amend the criteria. If, for example, the next Ovechkin passes on the NHL and, after dominating the K for a couple of years, comes over, they’ll be able to say, “The KHL has gained enough prominence that it is a major professional league, and therefore you’re ineligible, comrade.”
But yeah, pretty ridiculously worded.
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Well, it gives them the flexibility to use it as they see fit without having to amend the criteria.
I move to make this the official justification for the plethora of arbitrary and ridiculous NHL standards.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
I believe this captures the essence of your argument. (Posting as link rather than image, as it is kinda big, but 100 percent work safe.)
http://www.smomashup.com/images/calvinball.jpg
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by winterion on Nov 23, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Haha, that’s my favorite C&H strip.
"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"
by Laich It Or Lump It on Nov 23, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
That could solve the NHL’s problems with inconsistent punishment. AO could have been suspended R games for his slew foot. Then people wouldn’t whine that the fine was too late.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
Thanks. I’d feel a lot better about not having a job with the NHL if they at least had competent people running it. What an effing joke.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
game #3 in 4 days, with something close to $20million worth of players out with injury. I’d make it a very optional morning skate.
But apparently, Canada would be crazy to take him for the Olympics…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 23, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Slava has an interview with Sasha on his injury recovery. “So far, so good. I think that I may start playing soon.”
and Tarik on morning skate and Ovechkin’s revenge on Nickey’s b-day.
Per tarik’s post, Sloan is back on D. And ShaMo will take the warmup skate, and then a gametime decision to send him right back up to the press box.
SO FЯIENDS, IS BATTLE NOW.
And MP allegedly has some real talent on his line. This could be interesting.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
That’s really been the big story for the Caps in the first quarter of the season, hasn’t it? How well he’s played up here?
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Which “he” are you talking about? My answer to either is “yes.”
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
How the Flyers continue to abuse a CBA loophole.
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What am I missing? He was under 35 when he signed that contract. Philadelphia is paying him to be LTIR out of the goodness of their hearts, rather than him retiring?
Well, if he doesn’t want to retire – if he wants some of that guaranteed $ he signed – they’d have to buy him out, which would obviously be a cap hit. So he hangs on and they need the cap space so they let him hang on. That’s my understanding, at least.
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Okay, I wasn’t thinking that he didn’t want to walk away from that money. That means that there’s no provision for a forced medical retirement, then? I guess if that was your one big money contract, you wouldn’t want to walk away from it.
I don’t think you’d want to walk away from any contract that you presumably earned in the first place and sacrificed your personal well-being in the performance of, right?
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No, of course not. But there are instances of a player walking away (I’m thinking Naslund after last season). For example, if you’re Alex Ovechkin and you’ve already earned $100 million and have $24 million left on the contract, sure, you’d like to have that money, but do you need it?
Let’s bring it closer to home, and ask what had happened if Brian Pothier had never been able to come back. Is it fair to force him to give up his guaranteed contract due to injury? To have a mandatory retirement for hurt players?
Is the problem here the rule, or is it the way it’s being used by Philly? I don’t have a problem with the rule as is for actually injured players. I do have a problem with it being used this way for players who aren’t good enough to make the team anymore. *cough*cough*Nylander*cough*
There needs to be a formal “eat it” clause where the team doesn’t buy out a player, the player still gets paid, but the player comes off the cap and doesn’t play for the team anymore.
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 23, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
There needs to be a formal "eat it" clause where the team doesn’t buy out a player, the player still gets paid, but the player comes off the cap and doesn’t play for the team anymore.
That just sounds ripe for abuse. My self-interested Cap fan loves the idea but I can’t help but think that it would have terrible practical consequences.
My main problem with the PHI stuff is that I don’t think they gave their old guys a chance to compete for a spot. It would be like if we never took Nyls off of LTIR when he hurt his shoulder a couple years ago. Sure, Rathje can’t play anymore, but that’s because he’s slow and a relic of the old NHL. I’m sure the injury didn’t help but it should have been apparent that Rathje had severe limitations in the new NHL so I have a problem with PHI handling it like this. I’m sure Ben from BSH will come over here and straighten me out.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
Why not have a rule that puts a limit on LTIR (say, through the end of a given season), and then teams could apply for waivers to leave a guy on LTIR for six-month (or whatever) periods, with the determination for waiver eligibility done by basically bringing in an independent party (I know, impossible to find a truly independent party) to confirm that the player is, indeed, physically unable to play hockey?
Problem, of course, is that the PA likes it the way it is – their guys can still collect $ – and the owners like it the way it is – they can stash guys if they’re willing to pay ’em.
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And overall, there’s really no problem — unless a GM gives the guy a no-movement clause…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 23, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
I thought the Union would be more upset with PHI basically forcing guys into retirement because they don’t want to give up the cap space. I’m pretty sure they did basically the exact same thing with D Hatcher.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
I’m sure they’re listening to all offers…
Atta dinnin stick a who!
by Gould Old Days on Nov 23, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting discussion, but I’m not sure the problem is as big as he makes it out to be. This loophole isn’t needed in the case of a guy signing a 10 year contract then retiring, since those guys will be young enough that if they retire their cap hit comes off the books (at least that is my understanding). So to use the DiPietro example he brought up, if he retires the Isles don’t need to put him on the LTIR in order to get his cap hit off the books.
I wonder why the NHL can’t just have him take a physical to see if he is healthy enough to play, and when they find that the only reason he can’t play is due to a lack of skill then force the Flyers to take him off the LTIR.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 23, 2009 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder why the NHL can’t just have him take a physical to see if he is healthy enough to play, and when they find that the only reason he can’t play is due to a lack of skill then force the Flyers to take him off the LTIR.
The bold terms are subjective, and to be defined by the NHL office (presumably under your hypothetical). Does anyone have faith the NHL can handle additional subjective determinations?
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
They can’t handle the ones they have, so what’s one more to potentially dissuade teams from dicking around? Just have the League decide if a player is healthy enough to play in any major professional league…
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Good point. If we just keep layering subjective calls on to the rule book they’ll eventually get one of them right.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
Don’t all teams always have to have a doctor’s note of sorts proving that a player is legitimately injured in order to put them on the LTIR? How would this case be any different?
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 23, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Because right now it is a Philadelphia Flyers doctor signing off. You’re asking for NHL doctors and determinations. Then you look at the line between “health” and “skill.” 100% healthy Rathje is barely capable of playing in the NHL, 75% healthy Rathje definitely isn’t. Is it because he’s hurt or because he sucks that he’s not able to play? A guy like Mike Green is going to be able to withstand much more serious injuries than Rathje is. It’s not as clear cut as it sounds at first blush.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
I heard this morning on the way in that the NFL is going to turn over the decisions on whether players can return from concussions to independent neurologists. That’s a pretty big deal, and if workable there…
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Yeah, saw that from Jay Glazer (of all people). Apparently Goodell and the DoD have been discussing something as well, in terms of using player’s returns from concussions as a measure for soldiers’ returning from the same thing, or words to that effect. Interesting stuff, and hope the NFL can get some truly independent opinion thrown into the mix.
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by Bald Pollack on Nov 23, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah definitely. The NHL should be embarrassed when the NFL passes them in terms of players respecting each other and the league looking out for players’ health.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
by Rob Parker on Nov 23, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think you even need a doctor to determine whether they can play with an injury, just to confirm that there is an actual injury present (and “being slow” is not an injury). I’m sure people quite often go on the IR for things that other players may play through, so you don’t need a subjective determination of whether a player can play through an injury, just a determination that an injury is present. Something along the lines of the LTIR time limit with waiver application that JP suggested.
I know it isn’t simple, but it shouldn’t be too hard for doctors to determine if a guy has a legitimate injury. Of course, this is the NHL and nothing is too simple for them.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 23, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
According to CBA, the League office does, in fact, have the power to challenge a team’s LTIR designation. The NHL and the NHLPA are supposed to appoint a neutral doctor to check a player. So it’s probably more Bettman not caring as long as the NHLPA doesn’t object.
"No TV and no beer make Homer go something something."
K_C, from the comments at the kukla link (i think this answers your first question):
With the way the LTIR currently works, and to use your numbers as an example, the team would be allowed to go over the cap by the same amount as Johnny Superstar’s cap hit while he is on LTIR. So while they would still be paying Johnny’s salary, they would be able to spend an extra $5M on a replacement. They would be allowed to spend $55M in a world where the cap is $50M.
If Johnny just retired, then that $5M would come off the books and the team would have an extra $5M (money they would have formerly had to pay Johnny) to spend. They would not be allowed to go over the cap.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 23, 2009 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
And that’s why it’s a real problem.
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I’m afraid I’m unclear on why. My understanding is that, in the scenario above, you’re talking about a team being able to spend $55 million dollars with a guy who has a $5M cap hit on LTIR versus being able to spend $50M with the guy’s cap hit off because he has retired. The only difference I see is that in the former scenario the team can’t bank any cap space.
The problem I see lies in the unfairness to smaller market teams that can’t afford to pay $5 million a year for several years to a player who isn’t playing, in addition to maxing out their salary cap. Obviously, Philly and the other deep-pocketed teams in the league can handle this, no problem. Unless of course, if its the insurance companies footing the LTIR bill, there really is no unfairness, right?
Because they’re stashing a mistake and not paying for it.
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I still don’t understand why this is a problem. It seems that if the player is under 35 it is always better for the team to have the player retire than to try and use LTIR as a loophole. So why would this loophole extend to anybody other than misguided signings of old vets like Rathje? I don’t see how this would be an issue for guys like DiPietro, AO, Richards, etc.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 23, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
why would the player retire when he is still owed money on his contract, though? it is the ability of the big market teams to have players on LTIR for extended periods instead of buying them out that is the problem. if a big market team takes every chance to expand the cap, then the cap isn’t leveling the playing field.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 23, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
Will you be singing the same tune when Nyls is stashed in Hershey next year?
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
i’m not saying the flyers are criminals, i’m saying the system is criminal. (gentler word: flawed.) these are fixes that should be sought in the next CBA. and in nyls’ case, the truth isn’t being stretched. he signed a contract that allows him to be shifted to AHL, and he’s welcome to retire if he doesn’t like it.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 23, 2009 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
So you feel the same way about the NHL CBA as I feel about the BCS. Got it.
If your problem with PHI is that they are paying more than the salary cap in a way that poorer teams aren’t able to take advantage of, I don’t see how Nyls’ different. It’s one thing to get worked up about a team forcing a player to retire or making them stay on LTIR when they aren’t injured; but PHI is just taking advantage of the LTIR exemption in a way that other teams can’t afford to. Rathje seems cool with it because he still gets paid. Next year Nyls is going to be stashed in the AHL if he’s still with the Caps. Ted will be taking advantage of an exemption that other teams can’t afford to.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
…i also have a problem with the BCS, and i sleep happy knowing the southeastern conference commissioner is on the right side of the debate (looking at you, big10/pac10). the BCS is pretty clearly a cartel between the top conferences, with no real claim to a “national championship” in quotations.
i understood your connection between rathje and nylander completely. these are moves the more wealthy teams can afford to make. how do you propose fixing the nylander AHL situation for other teams, though? eliminate one-way deals? demoting players seems well within any team’s license, while fudging the truth on LTIR status seems to call for an unbiased arbiter.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 23, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Ah ok, I think I see the issue. Players can suffer career ending injuries and just sit on the LTIR instead of retiring. I was under the assumption that players still get their money anyway if they are injured and forced to retire.
A player on a long contract that is forced to retire due to a career ending injury is still a different situation than Rathje going on the LTIR because he just can’t play effectively anymore. I don’t know that it is any more fair to have a player suffer a major injury, no longer be able to play but still kills their former team’s cap space. Say Johnny Superstar gets into a car accident and permanently damages/loses his leg, is it fair that his team now operates under a cap that is $8 million lower than everyone else?
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 23, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
i’m starting to get confused. as discussed above, career-ending injury is a relative term, and the issue with rathje isn’t that he had a legitimate career-ending injury…it’s that he’s no longer competitive but can pass as LTIR even though he tried out for the team and didn’t make the cut. in your situation, the player absolutely should qualify as LTIR, and i wouldn’t want the team to be penalized.
here’s kukla on the flyers’ handling of derian hatcher, a player who demonstrated he could still play in the ’08 playoffs but was shifted to LTIR the following season.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 23, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think I’m having a hard time pinning down your position. I thought you were upset that rich teams found a way to spend more than poor teams. I thought I was the only one talking about the possibility of forcing players to retire/stay on LTIR. If your problem is with the Flyers forcing Hatcher to LTIR against his will to take care of the exemption, I’m behind that. But even in that case, how is that all that different from what the Caps are doing with Nyls? If your problem is that rich teams can spend more than poor teams, I’m not sure what the big deal is. That’s like complaining that the sun rises in the east.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
“upset” isn’t the word. i was trying to better explain the kukla article, but maybe i missed the mark. i do have a problem with the flyers forcing hatcher and/or rathje against their wills to LTIR, but i think the fault lies with the NHL and the CBA. i’m not a kansas city royal fan crying foul at the injustices in the world. i realize the caps now have the ability/revenue to pick their spots and eat a salary or two. i’m saying the current CBA was designed to even the playing field amongst teams, and this is an example of how it fails to do so.
K_C’s original question concerned the difference between a retired player and a player on LTIR in terms of salary commitment and cap commitment. the cap commitment is the same, but the salary commitment is different. i see why LTIR exists, but i don’t think the teams should be able to manipulate it without some sort of independent evaluation. if the player is deemed healthy enough to play, then his contract may have to be bought out, which would dramatically impact the cap commitment.
any CBA will have loopholes, but i’d think the NHL would act to close as many as possible, since it is their mission to close the $$ gap.
by Natty Bumppo on Nov 23, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
I see what you’re saying. I’m just not sure that a “neutral arbiter” really exists. It gets back to the skill/injury continuum. They discuss it in that Hatcher article you linked; the NHL would still have to determine how healthy is “healthy.” I’m not fundamentally opposed to what you and K_C are suggesting, just inherently skeptical that the NHL could implement it without making it worse.
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
And while D Hatch showed that he can “get on the ice wearing hockey gear and float around” during the 08 playoffs, I’m not sure he demonstrated he could “play hockey.” Notwithstanding his reputation and all the love he got those playoffs, I thought he was a liability when he was on the ice. (And Nick Backstrom fucked him up good because D Hatch has those cement feet.)
If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...
I agree with you that teams shouldn’t be able to stash ineffective players on the LTIR. What I’m saying is that I don’t see this being a problem for the young guys on big contracts. If DiPietro (or AO or Richards, etc) is healthy, they will play. Their teams aren’t gonna put them on LTIR for several years if they aren’t hurt.
The “problem” that Kukla raised that I don’t agree with is this one:
With the very long term contracts that the NHL is seeing, it is just a matter of time before a player in one of those contracts suffers a career ending injury (assuming Rick DiPietro has not done it already). Will that contract be used to allow a team to exceed the salary cap for many years as the player sits on the LTIR with no intention of ever playing again?
In those situations, where there is a legitimate career ending injury, I see no reason why teams should not be able to replace them on their roster (and salary cap).
The big problem as I see it (and it sounds like you agree) is stashing old ineffective but healthy players on the LTIR. That is a loophole that should be fixed (perhaps by some sort of independent evaluation), but I don’t think the problem is one that applies to the young guys getting long contracts as Kukla suggests.
Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst
by Killer_Carlson on Nov 23, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
This via the goals and dreams website.
Washington County Youth Hockey Association (West Bend, Wisconson) – 50 sets of equipment – David Steckel
Go David, yay!
"And next year it will be ours."
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
50 | 24 | 15 | 11 | 59 |
|
Washington
|
50 | 26 | 20 | 4 | 56 |
|
Winnipeg
|
53 | 24 | 23 | 6 | 54 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
50 | 22 | 23 | 5 | 49 |
|
Carolina
|
53 | 19 | 25 | 9 | 47 |
(updated 2.4.2012 at 8:30 AM EST)
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