Penalty Tracker By Zones

by Laich It Or Lump It on Oct 20, 2009 10:26 PM EDT Comment 23 comments

Today in Caps Clips, J.P. announced the start of the Japers' Rink Penalty Tracker. I, among others, suggested it would be interesting to see the penalties broken down by the zones in which they occur. I decided to put my money where my mouth is, so I did the research myself using NHL.com's Full Play-By-Play game reports. The following table includes penalties broken down into offensive, defensive, and neutral zones. The table does include fights but does not include too-many-men penalties. Here are my results:

	Off. Zone	Def. Zone	Neu. Zone	Total	Games Played
Forwards
Aucoin				0	2
Backstrom	1	1		2	8
Bradley		1	1	2	8
Clark	1	2		3	8
Fehr				0	4
Fleischmann				0	0
Gordon	2	2		4	6
Kane		1		1	3
Knuble	1	1		2	8
Laich	2			2	8
Laing				0	8
Morrison	1			1	8
Ovechkin	2			2	8
Semin	1	1	1	3	8
Steckel				0	8

Defensemen
Erskine		2	2	4	5
Green	2	5		7	8
Jurcina		3		3	7
Morrisonn		2		2	7
Pothier		2		2	7
Poti				0	8
Schultz		1		1	4
Sloan				0	3

Totals:
Forwards	11	9	2	22
Defensemen	2	15	2	19
All Skaters	13	24	4	41

When analyzing these results, all "Small sample size" and "Correlation does not mean causation" disclaimers apply.

Obviously, one would expect defensemen to take more penalties in the defensive zone and forwards to take more penalties in the offensive zone. This holds true here. So far, defensemen have taken only two penalties in the offensive zone, and Green committed both of them. This makes sense due to his propensity to jump in on the rush, but it is impressive that no other defenseman has taken an offensive zone penalty yet. Forwards have not been nearly as clean in the opposite end, however. Sloppy backchecking, perhaps? Caught out of position and forced to commit a foul in order prevent a scoring opportunity? It is probably too early to tell, but it is interesting nonetheless. Also interesting is that the team as a whole have committed more penalties in the defensive zone than the offensive.

The season is young, so there is not too much to take away from this table yet. If anyone finds this interesting, I am willing to maintain it throughout the season. What do you guys think?

If this FanPost is written by someone other than one of the blog's authors, the opinions expressed in it do not necessarily reflect those of this blog or SB Nation.

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Comments

Maybe I’m just naive, but I would have thought that the forwards would have been committing more defensive zone penalties than offensive zone…

by Yoshietree on Oct 20, 2009 11:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe. Why do you think that? My logic was forwards spend more time in the offensive zone and defenders spend more time in the defensive zone, so that is where they will commit more penalties respectively.

"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"

by Laich It Or Lump It on Oct 20, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

See F&B’s explanation below.

by Yoshietree on Oct 21, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What I think F&B is saying is that F’s take more penalties in the defensive zone than D’s take in the offensive zone. He is comparing how each position commits penalties in the opposite end of the ice from where they normally play.

My point was a little different. I was saying F’s take more penalties overall in their own end because that is where they spend their time. Likewise, D’s take more penalties overall in their own end because that is where they spend their time.

"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"

by Laich It Or Lump It on Oct 21, 2009 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry…still no caffeine in my system. I guess my thought process is/was that forwards would be taking more penalties in the defensive zone due to poor backchecking, getting trapped or long shifts. Nothing scientific whatsoever, but I am anxious to see how it plays out over the course of the season.

by Yoshietree on Oct 21, 2009 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Those are valid points. It’s too early to really say, so we’ll see how the data pans out. Plus, it’s not like I’m an expert or anything. Just a guy who knows how to use nhl.com game reports.

"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"

by Laich It Or Lump It on Oct 21, 2009 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So another thing one could wonder is if a fwd doesn’t have many or any penalties are they working hard on the back-check?

I remember people complaining about Fehr and Aucoin’s back-checking in situations where there was a goal against, and I have seen games last season and this season where announcers show that the guy who scored should have been covered by Backstrom back-checking.

(But of course we can’t expect perfection, there will be breakdowns no matter how well people play)

by Icebat on Oct 21, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

d’oh, I hit reply a post too high

by Icebat on Oct 21, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m definitely interested to see how this plays out and I’m rec’ing the leg work. Good job. I think the reason Fs take more PIMs in the D zone than vice versa is that Fs are expected to battle more in the D zone than D are in the F zone. If there is a puck challenge in the F zone the D can back off and play defensively responsible; if a F backs off a puck battle in the D zone they are letting their team down.

If consequences dictate the course of action, then it doesn't matter what's right, it's only wrong if you get caught. If consequences dictate the course of action, then I should play God...

by Fehr and Balanced on Oct 20, 2009 11:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I can definitely buy that explanation. It will be interesting to see if that trend continues. Thanks for the rec too. It definitely took some time to put this table together, so it is much appreciated.

"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"

by Laich It Or Lump It on Oct 20, 2009 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think another reason is that F’s are often trailing a play coming back, which provides more opportunity to commit a foul, whereas D’s in the O-zone will almost always have the play in front of them. And the obvious – you’re more likely to commit penalties when the other team has the puck, and you’re more likely to have the puck in the O-zone.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Oct 21, 2009 8:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good points. Your first point is what I was getting at with the “sloppy backcheck” comment. Perhaps “sloppy” is too harsh. The positioning of the forwards in the offensive zone simply put them at a disadvantage when forced to hurry back into the the D zone. Plus, as F&B said, they have to aggressively backcheck in order to protect their own end or else they are not doing their job. So yeah, it’s probably not sloppy as much as it is the nature of the game.

"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"

by Laich It Or Lump It on Oct 21, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love those big fat 0’s next to Poti and Steckel, arguably our two best PKers. Good work, rec’d

Fehr is fair, but I like Laich

by amkcaps on Oct 21, 2009 12:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and rec’d. Good work.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Oct 21, 2009 8:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Mike Green doesn’t look very good on here, does he?

Atta dinnin stick a who!

by Gould Old Days on Oct 21, 2009 9:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is why he’s a bad value and should be traded.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Oct 21, 2009 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs

This is some really good stuff – great work going back over the games and putting this together.

I’m going to go ahead and add the data to the Japers’ Rink Penalty Tracker, and we’ll be sure to keep it up to date from this point forward.

Thanks again – this Fan Post is definitely going to help make the Penalty Tracker better.

by David M. Getz on Oct 21, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Awesome, thanks! My original intent for this post was to augment the Penalty Tracker, so it’s great these field are being added.

Just curious, how do you tabulate the data that goes into the Penalty Tracker? I hope you’re not doing it by hand.

"If you're gonna die after 24, might as well jump out at 23:59, no?"

by Laich It Or Lump It on Oct 21, 2009 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, it’s a hand job alright.

Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world

by J.P. on Oct 21, 2009 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Sounds like some sandpaper is involved, but remember that every team needs some of that, come playoff time.

by Knee high to a duck on Oct 21, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hand jobs should NEVER involve sandpaper.

Of all our iniquities ignorance may be the worst

by Killer_Carlson on Oct 22, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Are you saying that some soft, highly skilled European is going to do better than a good Canadian who has some grit? Don Cherry would like a word.

by Knee high to a duck on Oct 22, 2009 6:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just curious, how do you tabulate the data that goes into the Penalty Tracker? I hope you’re not doing it by hand.

Generally I just keep a notepad next to me while I watch the game and note the player, penalty, situation, (and from this point on, zone) of each penalty and add them in. If I miss a game or a part of a game, I do back through the box score to do it.

So, mostly by hand although the spreadsheet is set up so that changing stuff like penalty minutes, TOI, etc, changes several numbers.

by David M. Getz on Oct 22, 2009 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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