Thursday Roundup - Keeping King Karl
by J.P. on Jan 7, 2009 11:06 PM EST
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[Ed. note: Tomorrow's news today! Thursday's Roundup is a little early as a treat for the night owls...]
For the past few days - the past few weeks, really - the elephant in the room that is CapsNation has been the question of how to keep Karl Alzner on the roster if once the team finally got healthy.
From his first game, Alzner proved he could play at the NHL level. In 19 games, the Caps' rookie blueliner has a plus-six rating (which ties him for second among the team's rearguards), has played more than twenty minutes in a game 14 times (and that includes only 2:48 on the power play), and has yet to take his first penalty as an NHLer (!?). His five-on-five +/-ON (Plus-Minus, On Ice, per 60 minutes) ranked eighth in the entire League among defensemen with at least ten games played and 15 minutes of five-on-five time per game heading into Tuesday night's game (teammate Mike Green ranks fourth, incidentally), and all of that has been accomplished while playing against the toughest competition in that group.
And yet, he might heading back to Hershey soon - the easiest solution to the Caps' cap quandary is the most likely.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like it one bit. Not when the team is potentially competing for Division and Conference titles. Not when the team is trying to ready itself for a deep playoff run. Not when the kid has done everything - and more - that has been asked of him.
Yes, putting Tom Poti on LTIR is a short-term solution to the problem, and who knows who might be injured in the interim (on a totally unrelated point, perhaps setting Michael Nylander up in front of the net on the power play and having AO firing away from the point would help that unit get clicking).
When healthy, the current Caps roster has 14 forwards, 8 defensemen (not including Brian Pothier) and two goalies. By my math, that's 24 players (the easy part) at around $58,256,101 (the harder part, and really, no one on "the outside" really knows what that number is). But that's without the $250,000 buyout of Ben Clymer's contract (didn't think that would come back to haunt, did you?), so we're really at $58.5 million. That means the team needs to shed one player and just over $1.8 million in annual salary, and Alzner's cap hit is $1.675 million. Throw in Sean Collins at $850,000 and you're in the clear. (Sidenote: $850k? Really?)
But perhaps there's another way. [Update: Actually, there's not. At least not the one noted below, as Eric Fehr would have to clear waivers to be sent down, which wouldn't happen.]
Start with Collins to Chocolatetown, then here's where it gets tricky. The only players remaining with two-way deals, if I'm not mistaken, are Nicklas Backstrom, Jeff Schultz, Eric Fehr and Alzner. Forget either of those first two going anywhere... but what about Fehr? You'd think he's in line to be scratched once Tomas Flesichmann returns, and he makes $735k. Besides, maybe Fehr can find his mojo in Hershey.
The final move, then, is putting John Erskine and his $537,500 salary on waivers. The team has shown the depth at D in recent weeks that they may not have thought they had when they signed Ersky to his two-year/$2.5 million extension, so if Erskine clears waivers, great. If not, the loss is manageable.
All of this would leave the Caps with 13 forwards (one of whom can play on the blueline in a pinch), six defensemen and two goalies. It's tight, but it's the best team the organization can put on the ice, which is the whole point, isn't it?
Of course, my numbers could be off a bit and my judgment and thoughts on Erskine and Fehr could be even further afield (though the team could likely have signed the latter to a one-way deal at a lower salary if they had no intention of even considering a demotion). And perhaps the team wouldn't want to play it as close to the cap as that might leave them (needless to say, GMGM has been more than a little cryptic in his discussions on the matter). But when you consider all Alzner has done for this team already - and that, as we noted more than a week ago, losing Alzner is like losing two effective defensemen given his impact on Milan Jurcina's game - the team really needs to do all it can to keep King Karl in D.C. for now and for good.
Elsewhere 'Round the Rinks:
Twenty-five years ago today, Bengt Gustafsson had five goals in a game against the Flyers. Top that, AO! Seriously. Please.... Simeon Varlamov reacted to his All-Star snub the way you'd hope and stayed red hot.... Stefan Della Rovere - whom GMGM "loved" in Ottawa - will be honored before Saturday night's game in Barrie as part of Canada's gold medal-winning WJC team. Actually, he'll be honoured.... Dmitry Kugryshev was named QMJHL Rookie of the Month for December.... Finally, I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I've always liked what The Big Lead delivers, so go vote for 'em. UPDATES: Boswell on hockey again.... Dan Daly, too.... Ed Frankovic has interviews with Boyd Gordon and Sean Collins.... Apparently a synonym for "Briere" is the fifth-most popular online password.
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There has to be a way to get rid of Nylander.
What about a team like Columbus? Pretty far under the cap, making a run at the playoffs…seems like they could use some veteran leadership…
Am I grasping at straws? Please? Will somebody take him? Can we give up a first round pick as well, NBA style, so we get his ridiculous salary off the books? PLEASE? Bueller????
Aren’t there waivers or something?
Swing by The Flyer Frequent if you have nothing better to do.
by Ben Rothenberg on Jan 7, 2009 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
Not knowing his contract situation, they might make a push for Weight before that.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
Yes. C’bus has no interest in Nylander right now, and one would assume that the feeling is mutual.
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how about....
say a 3 way deal, which I know just doesn’t happen anymore, but hear me out.
maybe the Islanders trade Doug Weight to CBJ and then Nyles would agree to go there. It’d get the family back in NY so the Mrs. might agree. that is the first possibility that sprung to mind.
or how about this one, (as mentioned by Vogs on the Caps Report) Staal goes from the Pens to CBus, then we ship Nylander there, or just for kicks we bring in a 4th team that takes Nyles from us and we ship that player to the Pens.
that's not gonna work
So the Penguins (who are right at the cap themselves) trade the youngest player in NHL history to 200 games for a 38 year old center with declining skills and two years left with $4.875 million on his cap hit?
No thanks. Pittsburgh has 99 problems but a playmaking center aint one.
If Staal gets traded before the season ends—and I can’t stress enough how huge an “if” that is— it will be for a goal-scoring skilled winger.
doesn't matter now anyway
as Staal was overpaid re-upped.
as I said I was just taking a rumor that was mentioned and just ran (blindly) with it.
Weight has a no movement clause as well
and has made it ABUNDANTLY clear that he wants to stay on Long Island, even if it means less money.
Fehr cannot be sent to the minors without clearing waivers. That isn’t going to happen so he’s not going anywhere. Erskine gives you defensive depth and McPhee has repeatedly stated how he likes his depth.
The only option is moving Nylander. I would go as far as sending him to Hershey in order to clear up the 4+ million in salary. That would even give the Caps enough cap room to add a player down the stretch. It’s a no brainer. Try everything you can to move him within the next week. If he refuses, he goes to Hershey.
I think you’re wrong on Fehr, CapitalFanatic – it’s a two-way deal.
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Two-way doesn’t make a difference with waivers in that regard, though. The org already confirmed (via Vogs/Caps Report) that Fehr would have to clear waivers if he were to be sent down. You can bet he would have been in Hershey to start the year if that weren’t the case, rather than riding the pine here.
Two-way just means he gets paid a smaller salary in the AHL, it doesn’t effect waivers on the way down.
Yeah, I’m sorry I didn’t get to point that out first. :) Waiver eligibility is determined by a player’s age and the number of NHL games he has played. Fehr is 23 and has 73 NHL games…I don’t have a CBA in front of me, but I’d reckon he’d have to pass through waivers given that he’s starting to get old (in terms of being a prospect).
What is this number, then, does anyone know?
"Waiver eligibility is determined by a player’s age and the number of NHL games he has played. "
When does Alzner cross over that threshhold, then?
brs is correct, a player on his entry level contract is automatically exempt from waiver. With the new CBA i do not know the exact number of games per age of the player, perhaps someone who feels like digging through the CBA mumbo-jumbo could find the specific constraints. I do know that as the player ages (from 22 to 23 to 24) the number of games he can appear in drops, thus making it more likely the older a player gets the better the chance he’s got to pass through waivers. At a certain age (26 or 27, I believe) all players are subject to waivers.
But the bottom line is Alzner can definitely be sent down safely to the AHL, if that’s what the Caps decide to do.
The waiver basic eligibility goes like this (there are difference based on when a player first players and the NHL and so so). Players become waiver eligible after passing the number of games to the right:
Age, Years from signing, NHL game
18, 5, 160
19, 4, 160
20, 3, 160
21, 3, 80
22, 3, 70
23, 3, 60
24, 2, 60
So Fehr, at 23, four years removed from his signing and with 73 NHL games player is waiver eligible. Even asuming he stays in the NHL, Alzner doesn’t become waiver eligible this season.
Yeah, I thought he was under the games played for his age. Obviously, I was wrong.
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Regardless of Alzner's destination
I think Jurcina will continue his solid play. Count me on the Juice bandwagon. I hope they make a move to keep Alzner but the team mantra was “Hershey won’t hurt him” at the beginning of the season and they might still feel that way. I doubt that is still the case but if he does go to Hershey and then our D goes to hell, I see a move coming.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 12:31 AM EST reply actions
I only miss him because he’s rocking a sweet fu-manchu right now and, we could use some more grit.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions
Jurcina is not waiver exempt
If he goes to Hershey we would never get him back. Someone would snap him up in a heartbeat. Big guy, MASSIVE slap shot, showing improvement, coming from the Caps, etc etc.
He’d be down with Eminger, Kolzig, Halpern & Co on the Tampa Bay Ex-Caps.
Where have you heard that? Anybody in the NHL can be waived and sent to the minors if they clear waivers. He can choose not to report if he doesn’t want to, but then he wouldn’t get paid either.
A no movement clause in your contract does not mean you can’t be waived.
Article 11.8 in the CBA:
(b) A no-move clause may prevent the involuntary relocation of a player, whether by Trade, Loan or Waiver claim.
I looked that up. It seems to be accurate. The only thing I question is the “waiver claim” part of it. He can refuse to go to another NHL team if they claim him, but I don’t know whether that applies to being assigned to an AHL team if he clears waivers. Anybody have an idea on that?
by CapitalFanatic on Jan 8, 2009 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
I think the gist of it is, we are stuck with him unless Mrs. Nylander wants a change of scenery.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t Tampa threaten to send Boyle to the minors in order to get him to waive his no-movement clause?
by CapitalFanatic on Jan 8, 2009 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
Boyle had a No Trade Clause, which allows for waivers. Nyls has a No Movement Clause, which does not.
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I could be wrong, but that counts as “movement.” He’s gonna have to waive his NTC if we do anything.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
Nylander has a NMC, not a NTC. Similar, but not the same. And yes, he has to waive it if he goes anywhere.
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I’m thinking Poti goes on LTIR and then someone gets sick/hurt and we keep Alzner anyway. It’s just how this season has gone injury wise.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 12:52 AM EST reply actions
Agree. Unless someone agrees to take Nylander (which probably won’t happen until the deadline, if at all) and Nylander agrees to go, GMGM should just wait out the rest of Poti’s absence. If nobody else gets hurt before then, it will be a minor miracle. Then Alzner goes down, and has the next ticket up the second someone is able to go on LTIR.
I don’t want Alzner to play another AHL game, but it’s not worth weakening the roster long-term to ensure it. I recognize that he’s, at minimum, a 2nd pair defenseman at this point (which is pretty amazing in itself), but the team can survive without him. He can still come up for the stretch and playoffs, and then he really won’t go back down again.
Well JP I think you make a very good point about Fehr, someone I hadn’t considered before. The team could probably get something in return for him so perhaps the best solution is to trade Fehr, demote Collins and Erskine and keep Alzner in the NHL.
Personally, I like it. I think Fehr will come around to be a decent NHL player but I also think Alzner and Alzner-aided-Jurcina are more valuable than Alznerless-Jurcina, Erskine and Fehr.
Still, demoting Alzner to Hershey and not having to touch the organization’s depth might be too easy to pass up.
I think they will just send him down and if the ship stays on the right course, then we see Alzner again if another player goes down. If the defense falls apart and the need for Alzner is obvoius, then we see a trade. I never really thought about Fehr though but given his recent struggles, it’s possible he gets the ax.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
Personally, with the way the team is playing and the fact that the Southeast Division is basically locked up already I can see the logic to putting Alzner in Hershey until maybe the last 3-10 games of the season (if possible with the cap, to get him up to NHL speed) and using him in the playoffs.
Here’s a long shot….
Fedorov
He’s older, commands a larger salary and his contracts ends after this season. His injuries prevent this from being a real possibility but crazier things have happened. I mean the team hasn’t had Fedorov for how many games? He’s a great addition and his leadership is invaluable but it’s not like the team isn’t preforming without him.
It’s a longshot, but if it happened I don’t think I’d be taken completely off-guard.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
I thought of this Feds wrinkle last night as well.
It might really distress the young Russian Gunners, but it is another option that GMGM has. I wonder exactly how this would happen, however. No one is going to want his $alary in a trade. Would GMGM send him down to Hershey and hope no one claims him? Would Gramps go along with this scenario? I somehow doubt that.
I highly doubt that would ever happen. Not only would it be a huge insult to Feds but I don’t even want to think how AO and Semin would respond. Besides, Feds wasn’t resigned for the regular season. He was brought in for the playoffs. Send him to the minors and his heart will never be in to playing for the Caps again.
Locked up?
It’s only the halfway point. How far under Carolina were we when the climb started? I wouldn’t take that for granted.
True... but unless Carolina
has another Alexander Ovechkin hiding somewhere in Raleigh that they plan on suiting up after the All-Star break, I don’t see them making the kind of run we did.
I mean seriously, what part of “Hart Memorial Trophy Winner Eric Staal” sounds even remotely grounded in reality.
What's this "reality" thing you speak of?
This is Gary Bettman’s NHL! We don’t need no steenkin’ reality. :)
Sorry. Seriously, though, under Maurice these guys are on their way up. If we keep the pedal to the floor, we take the Southeast. If we don’t, we could wake up one morning and find ourselves second.
DMG is right. Don’t touch the depth right now. We’re going to need a lot of injury help come playoff time. Send Alzner back to Hershey if necessary, at least and until the division title is in jeopardy. It’s about a run for the Cup, not the Presidents’ Trophy.
The Hershey Bears and the AHL won’t hurt him, that’s for sure.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
Given the Caps home and road records and performances, I wouldn’t dismiss the importance of winning the Conference.
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I agree that sending Alzner to Hershey is the most likely scenario. I’m just trying to come up with an alternative.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Btw, I’ve updated the Roundup links as of this A.M.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Hmmm
So, you said Schultz isn’t going anywhere, but I have to ask… why not? If Poti is returning, he takes Schultz’s current spot, and all’s well, no? Not like Schultz is really any good, or anything.
Faux style:
1) Schultz was a very effective defenseman last season and the hope is that he returns to that form prior to the playoffs
2) Bruce loves him
3) He’s better than Sean Collins
4) The AHL offers little in terms of his development at this point
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Here’s one option, trade Schultz. His salary plus Collins salary would pay for Alzner. And then Poti could come back without anyone else leaving. Personally, I wouldn’t do it. I’d send Karl back to Hershey and then sometime in Feb-March, he can come back and stay for the rest of the year. I’m betting that’s what happens.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Schultz is a good NHL defenseman and when you factor in his age, size, and age he’s very good. Moving him just to free up cap space would be a big mistake.
You might be saying that a few more times man, I know I have.
"Good crowd out there tonight, boys, let's really try to win this one."
by Bald Pollack on Jan 8, 2009 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t doubt it. Schultz has been the most underrated player on the team for at least a year now and there don’t seem to be any signs of that changing.
Big defenseman take a lot longer to grow into their body. Schultz has played 136 NHL games and he’s only 22 years old. He’s still a baby in terms of the maturation process for guys his size. Still, his numbers compare very favorably to a couple of other very successful and big defenseman at comparable stages in their careers:
Schultz- 136 games played, 5 goals, 28 assists, +11
Pronger- 124 games played, 10 goals, 34 assists, – 15
Chara- 149 games played, 4 goals, 16 assists, -34
Now, we all know Jeff is never going to hit like Pronger or Chara and probably won’t develop into the offensive players the are today, but the point is that both the Islanders and the Whalers gave up on those guys way too early and have paid for it since. Everybody needs to get off Schultz’s back and let this kid develop like other big defensemen before him.
Agree on Schultz. Look elsewhere for the answer…
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What about Morissonn? He’s not signed for next year and would he possibly free up the space to keep Alzner?
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know....
ShaMo has been developing into a serious defender especially now that he’s started to bring the hits. Plus he’s smart and used to be the “True D-Man” paired with Green to allow Green to jump the line and shoot at will, though now that appears to be Schultz’s job.
I think the move of Schultz up with Green strongly hints that Mo will probably not be back next year. Or maybe the coaches just think Schultz can fill that role better.
I would rather keep Mo, but I think his contract status (and my hunch that Erskine would clear waivers, with his contract) makes him a likely casualty.
I think Mo is gone by the offseason, and in one of two ways. Either at the draft to get another 1st (similar to Eminger although hopefully with an even better return) or by the deadline perhaps as part of a bigger deal. I don’t know if GMGM would be ready to dump him right now if he’s not ready to add another piece as well but he’s certainly the logical guy to let go.
Think of it this way: Alzner is likely already better than Mo, as evidenced by his minutes, but even more importantly, Alzner + effective Jurcina (with hits, shots, etc.) is infinitely better than Mo + ineffective Jurcina (not enough hits, afraid to shoot, worst decision making on the team, etc.). By dropping Alzner you’re taking a huge risk that Jurcina won’t suffer, and we’ve already seen hints that that’s not the case (he didn’t play well in Buffalo w/o Alzner).
Mo is definitely gone in the offseason if he wants $3M (as I read yesterday).
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$3M ?!??!?!?!
for a Number 4 or 5 defensiveman? Over what, 3 years?
Have fun in Tampa Shaone.. Olie says the weather is FANTASTIC.
Yes… while Fedorov, Erskine and Pothier are on LTIR.
Once Feds comes back (and unless Poti goes on LTIR), they’re over.
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Yes, moving his contract (along with Collins and if needed Erskine to Hershey) would free up space. Moving Morrisonn is a move I’d be comfortable with in the offseason: he’s the team’s fifth or sixth defenseman right now and I don’t think they needs to spend almost 2 million dollars on that. But for now, trading him hurts depth because I think there’s a very big drop off between Morrisonn at six on the depth chart and Erskine at seven. Plus then if another defender gets hurt, the team has to start recalling Collins, Sloan, Helmer, etc, which they’d be better off not having to do.
Practice lines today
Per Caps Insider, Fedorov/Nylander are splitting time on the 2nd line and Fehr/Clark are splitting time on the 3rd line. This is an egregious example of reading something into things, but it sure looks like Nyls and Fehr are the bubble players right now. I think Nyls might have some healthy scratches in his future.
A Healthy Scratch to a veteran is a good incentive
to think about the value of sticking to your NMC out of principle.
Sit out marquee games to watch the kids play or go elsewhere and contribute on the ice? Ask Clark about spending months in the press box… it doesn’t do much for your sense of contribution to the franchise.
What the Hell is the point of Healthy Scratching a 4 mil player when we’re up against the Cap?
Nylander’s guilty of nothing but not fitting the system he’s playing in. He’s making do. He deserves more from the fans. Should we trade him? I wouldn’t stop rooting for the Caps if we do, but damn it, scratching him is pointless.
What’s the point in playing a four million dollar player if the team is better with him scratched?
A player’s playing time shouldn’t have anything to do with how much money they’re making, it should have to do with what they do on the ice.
That, and it might make him more amenable to a trade. Nyls is lost out there right now, and he’s not much good unless he’s on the top 2 lines. I like him personally and all, but I’m not sure he’s one of the Caps’ 12-best skaters right now. In fact, he was probably the Caps’ worst skater in the Philly game (IMO).
I’m not sure scratching him will help him come out of his funk, but if Fedorov returns at center, there’s not really a place for him unless we go with 3 scoring lines.
I am watching him. He isn’t the worst player on the ice. I can name 3 forwards who deserve a scratch more. Clark – Steckel – Fehr.
Heaven forbid he not have an all-out assault playstyle. He’s just the latest episode in “Throw the shit on the scapegoat” that people are finding.
I am watching him. He isn’t the worst player on the ice. I can name 3 forwards who deserve a scratch more. Clark – Steckel – Fehr.
Maybe that’s the case but only one, Steckel, plays the same position and Nylander and he’s going to be in the lineup for his faceoff and penalty killing skills.
Heaven forbid he not have an all-out assault playstyle. He’s just the latest episode in "Throw the shit on the scapegoat" that people are finding.
I think Nylander fits the all out attack style more than the other players. Anyway, no one is scapegoating him (how can you scapegoat when a team wins 15 of 16 or whatever it is?), we’re just saying that if one guy has to go to make room for Alzner, he’d be the one we’d most like to see be sent out based on his play, his contract, and his position.
Wow! Def not Fehr, although he’s having trouble finishing he’s drawing penalties not taking them and is creating scoring chances. Clark seems really energized out there now that his fracture or whatever is healed and has even gotten into a couple of scrums with a cast still on his arm. Steckel is your best bet, but why would you scratch the #10 faceoff guy in the NHL? Not to mention that the combined salaries of those 3 still doesn’t match Nyls.
IMHO, Nylander is not creating plays, which is what he is paid to do. He’s been taking bad penalties and looks completely bored/lazy on the backcheck. He’s got first line potential and skills but just doesn’t seem interested or has 0 chemistry with anyone on the team.
Nylander does create some plays. One that immediately comes to mind was the play where he was whistled for “Hooking”
A bullshit call. He stick checked the guy, and got a bad call.
Yeah, he’s slumping, but you stats guys have to realize his stats are better over the last few years than Feds, though, granted, without the intangibles Feds brings.
I’d be more for cutting ties with Morrisonn, Jurcina, and Theodore (and sending Fehr to hershey) than getting rid of Nylander.
that was a penalty, this isn’t 2003, ma’en.
Nylander turns 37 at the beginning of next season. Hello buy out.
I think we’d rather keep him than buy him out. That would still be what $1 or $2M in “dead” cap room. Caps need every penny they can get.
Buyouts are no treat, but if you are talking about the Caps needing all the cap room they can get , then you are saving $3.25 mil in cap space in each of the next two seasons. The true “dead room” would be in years 3 and 4 when he still would count $1.625 mil against the cap.
Assuming a summer buyout:
2 years left at $4.875 per = $9.75 mil
x 2/3 for the buyout = $6.5 mil down the toilet for Ted
amortized over four years (twice the length of remaining contact) = 1.625 cap cost per year.
2009 – cap savings of $3.25 mil
2010 – cap savings of $3.25 mil
2011 – “dead money” $1.625 mil
2012 – “dead money” $1.625 mil
Were money no object then the $6.5 mil buyout would be a pretty easy call. However I can’t say Ted, nor anyone else, is looking to light $6.5 mil on fire.
Then again, you could make a case it’s already blazing.
Mac, I think you’re missing my point. At four million dollars, he needs to play, or get out of town. You don’t press box a four million dollar player.
I enjoy having him on our team, because I think that he’s better than a lot of our other options (At least even with the current players, and definitely over Aucoin, Giroux, and any center in Hershey).
It’s not 2003, but it was a STICK CHECK. Stick check =/= Hooking.
to tell you the truth after this mega-thread i’m pretty nylandered out. he’s on the team this year and it will be a minor miracle if he’s not on it all year. pretty much everyone here would kill for a trade but – DOUBTFUL. should he be scratched for the next 10 games? i think not, but when the playoffs come, the best 20 guys on the roster play, regardless of salary.
i bet if nobody mentioned his name for one week on this future award-winning blog, he might magically disappear. bettlejuice!
And when is the next “play” (preferably the didn’t result in a penalty) come to mind. The Montreal game? That was a month ago. I’m not sure which hockey team you’ve been watching, but getting rid of 23 y/o’s so we can fit the bad contract of a aged playmaker doesn’t make sense for a team that wants to be a contender for years to come. I’m not really sure what the stats of the last few years have to do with THIS season but I’ll throw some stats @ you as well.
Since Boudreau took over:
Fedorov – 33gms 6g 19a +5 .76ppg
Nylander – 59gms 9g 27a -8 .61ppg
and Nylander makes more money than Feds
I’d be more for cutting ties with Morrisonn, Jurcina, and Theodore (and sending Fehr to hershey) than getting rid of Nylander.
I understand that people have different perspectives on these things, but wow. I would rather have any of those players individually than Nylander even if contracts were not the issue (and in the case of Nylander, his contract is the majority of the issue).
And I think that penalty was a good call by the refs, and a bad decision by Nylander that put the game in doubt.
Yeah, he’s slumping, but you stats guys have to realize his stats are better over the last few years than Feds, though, granted, without the intangibles Feds brings.
And Nylander’s never won a Selke and Fedorov hasn’t been playing with Jagr.
Morrisonn, Jurcina and Theodore all have more value to this team right now than Nylander.
Fedorov played with the Russian Five and then Yzerman, then Kariya, iirc, and then 5 years with Rick Nash on his line. He’s had plenty of scorers around forever.
Nylander will never win a Selke, but it wasn’t all Jagr. You have to remember about his hurt “Groin”
Yes, Fedorov played with the Russian Five, but you said Nylander had better numbers of the last few years and the Russian five was fifteen years ago. If we’re going to go back that far it’s worth noting that Nylander’s two best seasons were 79 and 83 points with New York and Fedorov has reached 83 or more five times; 79 or more six times.
Fedorov’s first season in Anaheim was 03-04, Karyia’s last was 02-03.
Fedorov was on Columbus for just over two and a half years, not five, and he spent part of that time playing on Nash’s line, part of it playing defense, and all of it in a very defense-oriented system.
Are those factors (a worse team, a more restrictive system, time spent on defense) enough to account for the differences in their numbers? Probably not. But they make is a lot closer than the number themselves, something that also supported by Fedorov’s better point-per-game average under Boudreau (even though he’s played defense for a fair amount of it)
I’m not saying Nylander over Fedorov, I just have different ideas on how I would run the team. I’m also not a Jack Adams award winner. And I also tend to stick to players who I’ve enjoyed watching the last few years. And, I wasn’t sure about the Kariya/Feds thing.
I’m glad that saying “I like Nylander” = “Everyone Jumps Against You”
I disagree – I think Stecks has been solid lately. As for the other two, Fehr is headed to the box once Flash is ready, and I’d imagine that Clark or Nyls will take turns once Feds is.
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Surely you are not comparing David Steckel to the $5 million thief. Steckel is an up and coming Selke candidate who wins 55+ % of his faceoffs and has a reasonable salary.
Eric Fehr is making 700k and had the same number of goals without the equal opportunity. He is also 23 and still has potential to be considered.
Clark, I cannot defend, but at least his cap hit is about half of Nylander’s. Until we figure out if it’s possible to UNSINK his SUNK cost, then he should sit. And if he doesn’t like it, please, let us accomodate. He’s getting the $5 mil and the NMC, the least he can do is what’s best for the TEAM.
Are you his brother-in-law or something? 3 goals, 18 points in 40 games. He might fit our style, but he just plain SUCKS this season. I’m not exactly drooling at the possibility of two more.
Haven’t Fehr and Nyls been playing on the same line? Doesn’t help when your linemates can’t finish.
No, I’m not related to him at all. Attack me all you want, this is just the same stuff I saw with Kolzig and Fleischmann last year. “Keep tossing crap on him.”
Guy’s a good player and doesn’t fit the system. Stecks will be pretty damn awesome when he gets his touch. Ehhhhh.
Uh no....
Fehr plays third line and is usually paired with Steckel. Nylander is usually paired with either Kozlov or Semin. Go on, tell me those two can’t finish. I dare you :)
I agree that Nylander is a good player and just doesn’t fit the system that well, but if that’s true, is it in his or our best interest to keep him? Not that he sucks, but if there isn’t a fit, there isn’t a fit.
Also, for the record, there have been a few games that used Flash-Nylander-Fehr, and as I recall, there was a night when they were the best line on the ice. So get off of Fehr already :)
I don’t care for Fehr, and no one else did until he sat in the press box at the start of the year and didn’t play. Then he became Eminger 2. Hope we trade him at draft day for a first round pick.
Actually...
I know more than a couple people who have always thought Fehr had plenty of potential. Would we rather have Getzlaf, sure, hindsight is 20/20. But your saying you don’t like the guy cause he can’t finish, he’s 23 and is basically doing everything else right, meanwhile you’re defending the play of a guy who takes up 5x the cap space to be a playmaker and is performing like anything but, and he’s 37.
Thanks. I’ve obviously never played or watched hockey. Yep.
I don’t like Fehr for other reasons, none the least of which is his finishing. I don’t much care for injury prone players, which he seems to be. That’s not his fault. I have to say I REALLY hope he turns on some lamps. There’s not a player on the team I don’t want to do well. I just don’t see what a lot of people see in Fehr.
Keeping everyone for the playoffs
Should the Caps make the post season (nothing is ever guaranteed), how does the cap situation come to play in the post season?
I know that players are not paid their regular salaries, so could we just have anyone on the team? For instance, if the cap situation requires it and we want to maintain our depth, can we send Alzner down and recall him for the post season with no cap repercussions?
Side note: what is the penalty for violating the cap min or max, I have never seen this discussed anywhere.
I don’t remember the details, but I recall we violated minimum a few years ago after we traded Friesen. I don’t remember the league ramifications.
CBA
The Salary Cap is defined in the CBA as Article 26. And Section 9 of Art 26 says:
26.9 Violative Filings. Any Club which files an SPC, which if approved and
registered, would cause the Club’s Averaged Club Salary to impermissibly exceed the
Upper Limit of the Range, shall be fined a minimum of $25,000, regardless of whether
the SPC was registered and regardless of whether the terms of the SPC constitute or are
the result of a Circumvention.
Which basically says that any club that goes over the cap pays $25,000 automatically even if it wasn’t intentional.
But then later in Article 50, it talks about the accounting requirements and any underage or overage of the min/max causes all sorts of escrow payments to the players, the league and the other teams.
But I think the real meat of your question is about discipline for clubs that deliberately try to game the system and do something that goes expressly against the CBA. If this is discovered, investigated and found to be deliberate Section Article 50, Section 12, Paragraph C, sub-paragraph iii states:
Non-Compliance Provisions. In addition to the provisions of
Article 26 of this Agreement, the NHL shall discipline Clubs for
material and intentional non-compliance with these provision,
provided, however, that a Club’s first offense shall carry a
mandatory fine in the amount of any revenue discrepancy plus $1
million, plus the loss of a first-round draft choice, and a Club’s
second and any subsequent offense shall carry a mandatory fine in
the amount of twice any revenue discrepancy plus $5 million, plus
the loss of three (3) first-round draft choices.
Ouch.
Sorry... I meant Article 50 as the definition of the Salary Cap
Or as it is officially termed: The Payroll Range System.
Article 26 is about actions and discipline for circumventing the CBA. Article 50 is about how the teams must track and allocate their salary’s against the cap and how they have to report it to the NHL. How the NHL will audit those reports and what avenues the teams and leagues have to mediate any disagreements. And while typically all discipline is vague and left up to the commissioner, revenue violation penalties are laid out pretty clearly in 50.12.C.iii as I quoted above.
I don’t think postseason affects player’s salaries, so to the best of my knowledge the team is free to recall Alzner without having to worry about the cap repercussions.
Of course, you’d want him to have played a few games in the past three months with his Game 1 partner, no?
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Of course. I mentioned elsewhere that I’d be okay with the Capitals sending him down and recalling him with 3-10 games left to let him get back into the swing of things. I don’t know the specifics of the team’s cap situation (who does?) but if they were ~200k under earlier this year they may have enough space to bring Alzner up for a handful at the end.
We won’t accumulate any cap space (or, from another perspective, Alzner’s cap hit won’t go down that low) because of the players on LTIR. We never actually have any cap space, LTIR only brings us down to the cap so our cap hit is always 56.7something (whatever the exact limit is). Alzner may have some bonuses that will expire and make it easier to keep him up/bring him back up, but that’s the only thing that would make his effective cap hit smaller in April than it is now.
Well said.
Once you use LTIR to go over the cap, you no longer “bank” any space under the cap.
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Poti on LTIR makes sense
While he’s there they keep Alzner and the team can make an informed and well-thought out move to keep him here. There is no reason to rush Poti back, the team is playing well and I’d rather Poti healthy later than Poti ailing but playing now.
Put Poti on LTIR, use that time to work a trade instead of rushing to one before tomorrow’s game.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 11:23 AM EST reply actions
I think that will happen
But what does it buy us? A week? Maybe two?
Poti is already skating (though not fully practicing). He’ll probably be back after the all-star break.
I can’t speak to how much time it really buys us, but 5 days to think out a trade is better than 48 hours.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Perhaps it buys us enough time to drug Nylander and put him on Columbus’ bus to the airport after Friday’s game…
It’s not Michael Nylander we need to convince, it’s Mrs. Nylander! She controls that NMC I tell you! Whatever team signs Nylander when his contract ends will need to offer HER a signing bonus.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
THe Blues are so banged up
why aren’t they out there looking for some talent? The could use a good veteran pivot-man to anchor their late season push for 12th place.
Send Alzner down
So send Alzner back down once the D gets healthy. It’s not a difficult decision, really. He’s still a young kid and makes mistakes (I keep seeing him leave Prucha alone in front of the net the other night). The up side to sending him down is that he’ll likely be back up when another D-man goes back on the injury list.
sucks but you're probably right
Barring injuries, we’ll just have to live with our mistakes (Nylander, Clark) this year.
Also,... quick clarification on waivers
Isn’t it true that they do NOT have to clear waivers to go down to Hershey, but only to come back to the NHL. I mean, we’re talking aboutn Re-Entry Waivers here, aren’t we?
Unless playing NHL 09 has misled me, the waiver process happens when you send them down. If they make it down, you can bring them up again freely.
I wonder how many people are working out this situation in NHL 09 as we speak…
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
If you’re using a console game to work it out, you’re going to be misled horribly. Eastside Hockey Manager is the only way to go.
Also, just thought of it, but if you’re working this out in NHL 09, just waive Nylander. No NMCs there, my friend!
I traded him to Boston for Milan Lucic, it was so worth it.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Well I also got a first rounder from Florida for Erskine, Pothier and Jurcina. I turned that into a franchise winger. Yeah I’m the best virtual GM ever.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
What is that anyway? Never heard of it.
by CapitalsKremlin on Jan 8, 2009 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t believe anything NHL09 tells you wrt to contract, it lies!
But yeah, EA seems to have no idea (or just not care) how the waiver process (or even the CBA in general) works.
I think it’s a combination of (1) not wanting to bother with all the minutia of it and (2) being worried about pissing off casual fans and 12 year olds who can’t figure out how to manage the cap.
RIght... what the hell am I thinking?
That would be REGULAR WAIVERS. Duh! Re-Entry Waivers are salary based.
I was reading one-section ahead in my CBA. I skipped right to 13.3 and onto the Exemption charts.
Sorry ’bout that….
No, in many cases it’s the other way around. If you’re waiver eligible, you always have to clear on the way down unless it’s special circumstances (emergency injury callup being up less than 10 days or so, I think). re-entry only apply to guys on one-way deals OR guys on two-way deals that make more than a certain amount on their AHL salary ($50K? Not sure exactly).
Where are you seeing the 100k number?
I’m reading Section 50.9 of the CBA and the only exemption of Re-Entry Waivers I see (other then Conmplete Waiver Exemption for Entry LEvel System players) is for Veteran Minor League Players:
The Re-Entry Waiver procedure will not, however, be applicable to
Veteran Minor League Players defined as follows: (i) for goaltenders, Players who
have: (A) played in 180 or more professional games in North America (NHL, AHL
and ECHL), and (B) not spent more than 80 NHL games on NHL roster over the
prior two (2) seasons or more than 40 NHL games on NHL roster in the
immediately prior season; and (ii) for defensemen and forwards, Players who have:
(A) played in 320 or more professional games in North America (NHL, AHL and
ECHL), and (B) not spent more than 80 NHL games on NHL roster over the prior
two (2) seasons or more than 40 NHL games on NHL roster in the immediately
prior season.
http://www.nhlscap.com/cap_faq.htm
Players who meet the criteria set forth in the new CBA for waivers must clear before being assigned to the minors. Additionally, the new CBA states that any player making more than the following amounts in the minors who is recalled must clear waivers again before joining the parent club.
2005-06: $75,000
2006-07: $95,000
2007-08: $100,000
2008-09: $100,000
2009-10 AND BEYOND: $105,000
Team Chemistry
I know its impossible to quantify, but this team’s chemistry was concocted at last year’s trading deadline and the momentum almost a year later is continuing to grow. All this talk about sending this player down to Hershey, or those two players down plus trade this one, worries me about blowing up the chemistry.
In my opinion, with their currently hands tied with Nyls and the salary cap, the decision is about how to least disrupt the mojo yet still produce the same on-ice results. Unfortunately, short of trading Nyls, it has to be to send Alzner down. The decision to starting waiving/trading becomes easier if we send Alzner down and start to run up a string of losses. At this point, we don’t know how the Caps will play without Alzner
Definitely an important point. Alzner seems to be quickly becoming a part of that chemistry, given his ice time and Jurcina’s transformation, but I think the team can survive if he bounces up and down depending on injuries for the next couple of months. I’m more worried about stunting Alzner’s development by doing that than killing the team chemistry.
Green is understandable
he’s missed too many games. (Unless it was a compensation tap for giving him the high hat last year)
But no BACKSTROM? unreal…
…plus after the starters only room for 4 defencemen, so it’s a bit harder to put Green in.
I agree about backstrom, but there is a lot of competition. His day will come.
by PaintDrinkingPete on Jan 8, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
(I posted the link for discussion on the front page)
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Backstrom Resigning?
It was right around this time last year that Ovie signed his mega-contract. Could a new multi-year contract be in the offing for Nik? Next year is the final year of his entry level and McPhee has shown he doesn’t like to wait until the last year to resign his top guys.
Interesting you should mention it. Check out NS’s FanShot on the topic, especially in light of the J. Staal deal.
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Brain fart – I don’t think the Caps can extend him until July 1 of this year at the earliest, b/c he’s not in the final year of his entry level deal yet.
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Florida
|
53 | 25 | 17 | 11 | 61 |
|
Washington
|
54 | 28 | 21 | 5 | 61 |
|
Winnipeg
|
56 | 26 | 24 | 6 | 58 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
53 | 23 | 24 | 6 | 52 |
|
Carolina
|
55 | 20 | 25 | 10 | 50 |
(updated 2.10.2012 at 9:27 AM EST)
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