"[The ice at Verizon Center is] the worst. Today, [again, talking about Nassau] it just stayed wet for a little while. You could tell with the referees coming out and moving the water around a little bit. But I still say Verizon, playing on it all of the time, is the worst."
about 1 year ago
J.P.
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no doubt
The VC doesn’t have the best ice going, but I still don’t believe that on most nights it’s ‘the worst’. And for a SCRUB thief like Clark to bitch about it. Ship this fool to Hershey. No – South Carolina.
Good on you Clarkie. Ted may try to be as diplomatic about it as he can, but we’re not blind. Even if the ice is “middle of the pack” (whatever that does mean), it’s not good enough. If only Abe gave even half a crap about the team…
by brs03 on Jan 20, 2009 11:32 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
seriously!
a clark jersey was the first red (new style) jersey i owned but even i am getting sick of his attitude , or, admitedly, the way is his attitude is being presented.
plus, i have to say. Does anyone think its kinda weird that if we win the Stanley Cup this year Gary Bettman is going to day “Come take the cup, Chris Clark!”
If you had your career severely derailed by an injury which likely involved bad ice as a contributing factor, I’m sure you wouldn’t be particularly pleased either.
by Kerry Fraser's Hairspray on Jan 20, 2009 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
whatever
Tell our so-called ‘captain’ to quit whining and bitching. I’m almost embarrassed for him. 1-3-4 in 30 games. YES, IT’S THE ICE.
Do you disagree with him that the ice is bad?
If so, have you seen it up close? It’s embarrassing.
If not, why do you care so much that he’s the one saying something? Yeah, he sucks, so what? He’s the captain, he’s the guy that’s likely had his career effectiveness destroyed because of the ice, and he’s the one who, for right or wrong, is in the position of leadership among the players on the team.
When Clark says something you KNOW it’s not just him saying something, you know it has to be something the team feels because the the captain isn’t going to just spout things off without there being something behind it. We know Mo agrees explicitly, we know Poti agrees explicitly, do you think those are the only two?
The fact that Clark is all but useless this season does not at all diminish the fact that the ice at VZC is terrible, and it may (MAY) reinforce it.
by brs03 on Jan 20, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the ice has good days and bad, but most of the time is hardly the malady that it’s made out to be. Of course if the NHL disclosed the information it collected about the arena surfaces it might be a little clearer.
And I’m sorry, Chris Clark has no currency with which to speak about the ice. PLEASE, do not go there with the VZC ice is terrible, and that’s why Clark is useless. How are the rest of the guys doing?
Here’s a better question: Can anything realistically be done about it this season? If so, I’m in favor, but if not, then shut up and play. This guys sounds like one of those tennis babies complaining.
And one last thing, I found this document which (allegedly) outlines some of the specs for NHL arenas. Anybody able to gather this data?
http://www.beckerarena.com/UserFiles/File/arid20ice20meetingNHLstandards.pdf
Clark’s performance is completely irrelevant. He is saying he thinks the ice at VC is the worst. He has way more knowledge than any of us about it, and he knows he is the team captain when he says it.
I don’t understand this mentality that he’s using it as an excuse or attacking the team/organization in saying it. He is making an observation, which just so happens to confirm what many fans have pondered.
A big part of what makes Clark useless is his groin injury which was likely contributed by, you guessed it, the VZC ice. He’s clearly lost a great deal of his speed, which is part of what made him effective. He’s like Sutherby part II. Maybe it’s just a coincidence so that may have nothing to do with it.
As for him having no currency to talk about it, he plays on it doesn’t he?
I’m sorry, but saying this point isn’t valid because Clark sucks is ad hominem plain and simple. Maybe it’s a league wide issue of bad ice or something, but it’s clear that the ice at VZC is still sub-par at best.
As for fixing it, Abe would likely have to shell out for some dehumidifiers, but it could still be mitigated by better temperature control and a better job by the Olympia drivers most likely. It’s unclear how much Ted can do, Abe may hold all of the cards which is a real shame.
by brs03 on Jan 20, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+17
Clark’s groin injury has taken away his effectiveness. He believes his injury was caused by the quality of the ice at VC. He is the team’s captain. There isn’t a single person on earth more qualified to be complaining about the ice quality.
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by J.P. on Jan 20, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
complaining has done a lot so far, eh?
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/capitalsinsider/2007/12/gordon_out_with_broken_hand.html
didn’t hear much complaining when scoring 30 goals and playing with AO.
Dude… do you not understand that his 30 goal season was BEFORE his groin injury?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
So you are saying his groin injury is not fully healed? Can you get a doctor’s note so we can LTIR? Pls??
If you’ve paid attention at all you’ll know that his injury isn’t something that heals and then poof he’s back to his old self. He had to change the way he skates and whatnot, he’s never going to be the same player again. Again, Sutherby pt. II. It doesn’t matter than he’s healthy, he still has to deal with the effects of the injury.
Exactly. A groin injury in hockey is like a knee injury in football or basketball. It’s like Cadillac Williams. He’s fully recovered, but I don’t think anyone expects him to be the kind of player he was before tearing up his knee.
by David M. Getz on Jan 20, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve suggested time and again that the team send him to a(nother) specialist who might suggest he takes the LTIR route.
But does he honestly look like the same player to you as he did in the first two years after the lockout?
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he looks like a guy
who never scored more than 10 goals, then suddenly scored 50 goals in two seasons playing on a basement team with very little talent, basically no chance, and zero expectations.
Oh, wait...
I meant to say I play better before a bad injury, and I play worse afterwards, regardless of how well my team is playing with or without me.
That’s what I meant to say, silly me.
It does make some measure of sense. When the team was bad Clark was on Ovechkin’s line, getting more minutes, more PP minutes, etc. If he were getting the 18+ minutes with Ovechkin he’s be better than 1-3-4 this year.
by David M. Getz on Jan 20, 2009 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
I knew SOMEONE would bring that up. Sorry, but I simply don’t believe you get 30 goals by being near someone awesome. This team has depth, and even our third line can put up 20 a year, I’m sure. To say that he was on Ovie’s line but now he’s playing with terribles is incredibly unfair.
He’s not playing worse now because of his linemates. He’s playing worse because of his injury. He’d be able to get more points than that if he weren’t injured in the first place, our team isn’t Pittsburgh, FFS. Our third line can actually do stuff.
It isn’t just a matter of linemates, it’s also a matter of ice time. On the caliber team Washington was three years ago, Clark was a first line player and now, even if his skills hadn’t declined much, he wouldn’t be.
But with regards to linemates, it’s not the sole reason Clark put up better numbers before. The actual amount of the impact is debatable but there’s no doubt that if you took a random player and put him with great players he’ll do better. Look at Johnathon Cheechoo and now Devin Steoguchi in San Jose.
by David M. Getz on Jan 20, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll agree with that. I just don’t think that his current point totals is where it is simply because of his linemates or his ice time. If you expect someone in his position at his amount of ice time to get that many points, then what are we even talking about? Naturally, you’re not, so the issue lies in that his performance, points-wise, has declined too far to simply be an ice-time issue or line-mate issue. It lies in his recovery from injury, plain and simple. I am not at all surprised by him slumping to get back into full-swing after an injury like that since he was never particularly “amazing” to start with. I do, however, feel that he’s likely gone after this season’s end, even though I like the guy, I can see where his salary will be better spent.
You’re right, nobody else gets hurt on this team or in this league. He plays on it? Do you mean he skates around? Then yes. If someone like Ovechkin, Green, Semin would repeatedly say something about it then maybe it would get fixed. Or maybe not, but I can tell you that those three do not WHINE about it when they don’t deliver. Amazing how we have four guys averaging a point per game, but it’s ruining Chris Clark’s career because he can’t deal with it. You people defending Clark are making me ill. Two million dollars plus a year to be a zero, you’d think he’d be embarrassed enough to keep his mouth shut.
The only thing people are defending Clark from are attacks against him in this thread for stating his opinion about the quality of the ice. He’s not whining. He’s speaking his (and very likely, the team’s) mind.
The fact that his play has been bad this year has NOTHING to do with this aside from a) the fact that people here are attacking him for saying this for reasons I cannot understand and b) the fact that he sustained a career-altering injury on said ice, which increases his credibility on the subject, in my opinion.
You know what’s funny, Mac, is that you can complain about the ice in other threads and then bash a guy who’s more likely to get shit done than you. His 1-3-4 in 30 games is 1-3-4 and 30 games more than you will ever get on the Verizon Center ice. You complained in the last post, then change your position over here, because Clark said something? Get over it.
by Whiter Mage on Jan 20, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
let's get one thing straight
I am in favor of the best ice possible. I think, if you actually READ all my posts, that I am balanced between supporting the players viewpoint and being realistic. And you’re right, his 4 points in 30 games is exactly FOUR MORE than I have this year. Dick.
So, what you’re saying is, the only thing you have to contribute is ad hominem and bashing? Good to know.
Seriously. If we’re going to use the “well Chris Clark isn’t any good this year so his opinion is moot!” argument than this whole discussion is pointless because none of us are as skilled at hockey as he is and ergo our opinions must carry less weight.
by David M. Getz on Jan 20, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
I’m still not seeing where Clark said “I am playing badly due to bad ice.” I see a comment about bad ice and then you saying “SHUT UP CLARK, YOU’RE BAD.”
No one is denying he’s playing badly right now. (I would actually disagree, and say he’s not playing particularly great, but not particularly terrible, either) I don’t see how this is even relevant.
this whole discussion doesn’t exist if someone, say Brooks Laich, says this. but CC is the captain you say. fine, let him say it (again). this shitstorm is all brought on by his lack of production and the fact that they just played a game in NASSAU COUNTY but he’s still taking potshots at the VZC ice. to me it appeared to be a very snarky comment and that’s not something you want to see out of a guy stealing 2.5 million dollars.
It’s really not fair to say he’s stealing his salary for a number of reasons.
by David M. Getz on Jan 20, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
as mentioned earlier, he has four more points than me and i’m not on the payroll. but it’s just an expression.
You’re missing the point.
It does not matter who says it, as long as it’s true. You are stated as saying the VC ice is bad. How are YOU more in a position to complain about it than someone who plays on it?
You’re putting your own spin on it. You do NOT know his intentions by that comment. That may not be a “popshot” so much as just simply making a comparison. I read it as a comparison, but that’s because I don’t have a hard-on for bashing Chris Clark like you obviously do.
...
“but he’s still taking potshots at the VZC ice” was in your post. Potshots, popshots, whatever, same thing. I read popshots, but I know exactly what you meant by it. I’m not sure that deserves a sarcastic quotation like that.
Hard-ons, on the other hand, you could’ve quoted, but you didn’t. Intriguing. I’m not really giving much of a crap, though, since you’ve apparently only been watching hockey since the caps got good.
if you looked up what popshot was slang for you would have seen the irony.
i’ll ignore the rest of your post.
No offense macvechkin, I usually like your posts, but this entire argument happened because of your comment bashing Clark as a player and saying he’s “whining and bitching” when it has absolutely nothing to do with what Clark said. If this was a thread about why Clark should be scratched/traded/bought out, or whatever, I don’t think people would be reacting the same way. Clearly Clark is not playing well and is being scratched as a result, and I don’t think anyone is arguing with the reasons for that.
This whole discussion doesn’t exist if someone like Brooks Laich says this, unless someone were prompted by Laich saying it to proclaim how much he sucks and is a whiner. The discussion about the quality of the ice will continue to exist until it is improved, because it is terrible and can cause serious injuries.
Clark isn’t whining. He is speaking his mind (and in mine, the truth). Whether he deserves to play or not or is stealing his salary or not is completely irrelevant to whether the ice is the worst.
To Clark, I tossed a softball to the baseball fan, expecting some diplomatic assent: "I know a lot of people have talked about the Verizon Center ice. It seems like its been better this year – "
And Chris just cut me off with an exasperated look that suggested a profound frustration.
If that’s truly how he feels, after winning a game in New York, then he should be bringing this to McPhee and Leonsis directly. But to me it appears he is whining through the media, which he has done before, apparently to no avail but that is not stopping him from doing it again. Top it all off with his lack of production and it’s very unbecoming.
I don’t hate him (really), but I wish he was on LTIR the way he is playing, and I could use a little less of what I perceive to be his attitude (excuses).
Thank you for enjoying my posts.
Excuses?
You keep posting that Clark’s using the bad ice to excuse his bad play. Where, pray tell, does he do that? Pepper asked him a direct question about the quality of the Verizon ice (which makes sense since Clark complained about it last season—before it caused his injury, I believe), and Clark answered directly. This is the first time he’s said anything about the ice since then (and he said it to a fan blogger, not the friggin’ Washington Post), and he doesn’t relate it at all to his own play.
Disagree with him all you want, but attacking a player personally for expressing his opinion by discrediting it based on an assumption that is categorically untrue is pretty damn weak on your part.
It’s not that he is excusing his bad play, but rather that he is fixating on the ice at VZ instead of fixating on why he is having such a poor season. After the game I would expect the “exasperated look that suggested a profound frustration” to be directed at a question regarding his season, another game where he hurt the team more than helped it, etc. Not on the state of the ice surface that wasn’t even in use that day. I seem to be in the minority of people that see these comments and cringe at the timing and manner of delivery, especially since he should be mortified how he’s performed this year.
You people don’t feel me, fine, I don’t expect consensus but that’s how I took it.
… the fact that they just played a game in NASSAU COUNTY but he’s still taking potshots at the VZC ice.
He was answering a direct question – hardly a potshot.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Jan 20, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
point taken, but perhaps i’d rather see that directed towards the team management rather than a weblog. not to hate on ye bloggers.
Who’s to say he hasn’t raised the issue internally?
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That’s a really interesting link – thanks for it.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
Maybe a lot of people are saying it behind closed doors, and Clark’s taking it on himself to say it for the team.
I’ll repeat from the last thread – You use the ice you have, that’s different from everyone else’s, to your advantage. I’m sure the Caps are used to it, so they know just how much harder they have to push the puck through sludge than some other teams, and maybe even where some of the cracks that tripped Jagr last year may tend to develop.
Changing something like that isn’t the best idea mid-season. At the end of the season? Ok. But mid-season? no.
SO hopefully they’ll be waiting until mid to late June to address it.
by Sombrero Guy on Jan 20, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
And what if AO rips a groin muscle because he gets caught in a rut? Other teams only have to play on it a a few times a year, the Caps have to play on it at least 41 times. Who do you think has the greater chance of getting injured from crappy ice?
I’m not at all saying it shouldn’t be fixed, I’m saying our guys should know how to play on the damn surface that’s THEIR home ice. I’m sick and tired of “Someone might get hurt” as an excuse. Players get hurt on pristine ice conditions too.
USE your home ice advantage, even if it appears a disadvantage, because it affects BOTH teams on it. That’s all I’m saying. Not that it shouldn’t get fixed, but that you should use what you have.
by Whiter Mage on Jan 20, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, but do players get hurt on pristine ice BECAUSE it is pristine ice?
I wouldn’t argue that players shouldn’t learn to always take advantage fron any situation, but that doesn’t mean ice should not be good. Isn’t good ice a safety issue?
by HeartbreakRidge on Jan 20, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not at all saying it shouldn’t be fixed, I’m saying our guys should know how to play on the damn surface that’s THEIR home ice. I’m sick and tired of "Someone might get hurt" as an excuse. Players get hurt on pristine ice conditions too.
Yeah and people get hurt in car accidents driving thirty miles per hour. That doesn’t mean it isn’t more likely you get hurt driving 110.
by David M. Getz on Jan 20, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not disagreeing with you. But I think saying that 30 MPH vs 110 MPH is a bad comparison. These guys likely grew up playing pond or backyard hockey on shoddy ice that was likely much worse. This can’t be the worst ice surface on the planet.
I grew up playing AAA hockey in CT, I’m about eight years younger than Chris Clark and from the same area. The first time I ever played pond hockey was two years ago and it was terrifying.
I had enough access to artificial ice growing up that I never had the time or energy to go skate on a pond.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
But Clark didn’t say it was worse than pond hockey, he said it was the worst ice in the NHL.
by David M. Getz on Jan 20, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Is Ted going to blame the bloggers again this time?
Someone please send him this link
by YvonLabresMoustache on Jan 20, 2009 12:47 PM EST reply actions
It’s a scathing indictment, and every word true.
over/under: I give Clarkie about 6 more months on the Caps payroll, max. Just sayin’.
I would take the over
If he were displaying any of the toughness, leadership and scoring that they were paying him for. So I’m with JP.
I think right now this is Clark being the captain and speaking for all of the players. The ice at VC is probably not the worst in the league, but I’m sure it’s dreadful. Bad ice comes about from many causes:
Humid climate
Basketball/other events on top of it
Building ownership that doesn’t care
Teams that have one issue and even two issues can overcome (although the ice in Dallas, where they face 2 issues, is no treat, ditto for LA). In the case of DC, we have all three. Humidity, basketball (three teams and tournaments!), and building ownership (Abe Pollin) who doesn’t care about the ice. If he had his way, the Caps would play in another city and there wouldn’t be ice in the VC.
The only way Ted can do anything about the ice is when he owns the building. One day Abe will sell (Ted has the right of first refusal on all of Abe’s holdings) or Abe will die. Until then, good ice isn’t going to happen.
I strongly suspect there will be new ice for the Caps after the All-Star Break. There being 2 weeks in between games, they have time to put down a fresh sheet (it takes 36-48 hours to do that…)
Having good ice is really difficult, especially if an NBA team shares the facility. Fans expect the inside of the building to be a certain temperature which isn’t conducive to keeping a sheet of ice. The Leafs were struggling with horrible ice at the ACC for years.
http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/team/app?articleid=335597&page=NewsPage&service=page
$4M later, I haven’t heard anyone complain about bad ice at the ACC. Bad players on the home team sure, but the sheet of ice looks great.
Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.
If they put in a new sheet during the ASG break
I have to say it:
In before everyone bitching that the sky is falling because NEW ICE KILLED THIS CAPS TEAM :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(
They’re doing a “monster truck jam” or something at VZ Center during All-Star break, so I don’t know if they would have to replace the sheet after an event like that or not…
by PaintDrinkingPete on Jan 20, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Usually that type of thing requires they remove the ice, as they need access to the concrete/whatever floor. I know they do for the circus, I’d imagine the trucks are the same case.
If they’re doing monster trucks, over the ice, then it will be beyond repair. Although seeing those things digging down into the dirt to the ice might be fun, watching them slide around…
I’m pretty sure that if that’s happening, then there’ll be fresh ice for the Caps/Wings game on the 31st. How good it is remains to be seen, but it will probably be better than the last sheet that was put in in September…
That's enough.
I have an obligation from 2:30-3:30. When I return, I’m writing an article for Bleacher Report (Again, I used to write for them for some time), and I may use this quote, if it’s legal. If any of you guys want to bring any thoughts and opinions before I go, and want me to include your thoughts in my writing, let me know. JP, if you want, I’ll post a copied version in the Fanposts section. You have until 3:30 to post, if you want, but I’m gonna stick to replies to this post.
Oh, and don’t forget, from back when the Caps were last in Ottawa on November 4, Bruce offered up this quote:
“I’m amazed that here in Canada that that ice could be as bad as it was. That was the worst ice I’ve seen guys skate on in many, many moons. It was embarrassing.”
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
AWWWW.... our first scuffle
So Cute.
Your favorite meme is dead
You must be new. We used to fight all the fucking time. (Look into the archives to any article tagged “Kolzig, O.”
Football's boring. Get over it.
by Whiter Mage on Jan 20, 2009 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
82 | 54 | 15 | 13 | 121 |
|
Atlanta
|
82 | 35 | 34 | 13 | 83 |
|
Carolina
|
82 | 35 | 37 | 10 | 80 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
82 | 34 | 36 | 12 | 80 |
|
Florida
|
82 | 32 | 37 | 13 | 77 |
(updated 4.12.2010 at 9:21 AM EDT)
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