Friday Roundup - Caps 4, Blues 2
by J.P. on Dec 19, 2008 6:22 AM EST
70 comments
[AP Recap - Game Summary - Event Summary - WashingtonCaps.com Postgame]
It says something about the expectations surrounding this Caps team that back-to-back wins (now five in a row and seven out of eight) can be not only unsatisfying, but in some ways downright troubling.
Granted, four points are four points, but they came against two of the worst teams on the planet, and in each game the Caps failed to demonstrate any real sustained passion - perhaps that's the "unsatisfying" part.
Moreover, the lack of a physical response from the team after David Backes cross-checked Alex Semin was infuriating - that's definitely the "troubling" part. If Donald Brashear isn't fighting (he hasn't in a month), and he isn't deterring opponents from running the team's goalies and star forwards, what, exactly, is he doing for $1.2 million? (And the first person to type "forechecking" gets banned from this site.)
Put another way, an effort like these past two in Philly on Saturday could meet with disastrous results.
An abbreviated few notes on the game, as I'm fighting a head cold like Matt Bradley fights NHL tough guys:
- The Verizon Center ice was simply atroc- just kidding.
- Simeon Varlamov was the victim of some bad luck on the two goals he allowed - karmic payback for the post(s) that bailed him out in Montreal on Saturday night. Bottom line, though: the kid was exceptional (again), and his stop on the Keith Tkachuk partial breakaway was a "save" in more than one sense of the word.
- Viktor Kozlov had himself a night. Good to be back on the top line, eh?
- With the exception of the power play that started the third period, the Caps were terrible with the extra man.
- One Cap was plus-two - Karl Alzner.
- Not to beat the dead horse about the energy level, but the game was tied at one with three minutes left in the second. At home. Against the worst team in the West. That's not OK.
- Boyd Gordon and David Steckel had solid games. Michael Nylander? Less so.
So it's off to Philly for a Saturday matinee, hopefully with a couple of bodies that couldn't finish out last night's game and a hell of a lot more passion.
Elsewhere 'Round the Rinks:
More from Simeon Varlamov following the Habs game.... The Ovechkin-Backstrom-Semin line is one of the top trios in the League (as would be the Ovechkin-Backstrom-me line).... Brett Leonhardt makes the coveted pages of SI.... Bryan Helmer's storybook return to the NHL behind him, he'll captain one side in the AHL All-Star Game.... Cap of the Day: Another former Cap and Blue, but one with whom you'll be more familiar.... Finally, and this seems quite fitting today, on this date back in 1990, Dimitri Khristich "became the youngest hockey player allowed to leave the Soviet Union, when he joined the NHL's Washington Capitals."
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back injuries are terrible. Semin looked like he couldn’t even straighten his back for ~5min before he stumbled off to the training room. bad. look at how it affected Fehr and for how long.
fuck Backes. at least our team didn’t come out and start playing dirty. someone needed to get punched in the face though. i don’t care about the lead, you just lost one of your best players.
Mo was crap again.
Flash continues to be the single brightest story for me this year (not including call-ups, i.e. Alzner)
Nyles looks lost in this offense.which continues to baffle me, considering how well he played the first 10 games or so.
23-27 was good, again. i think Juice is finally starting to enjoy himeself.
Backstrom was invisible last night.
by ns on Dec 19, 2008 6:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
To me it looked like Semin actually hurt him knee. Anyone else have that reaction?
by David M. Getz on Dec 19, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Donald, where art thou?
I, too, am infuriated by the recent pansy-like nature of the team. I know you’re winning, guys, but when Ovie becomes the only one to initiate visible payback…….aaargh!
Those at the game probably saw it (don’t know about TV), but, Brash gets no credit from me for trying to challenge Keith freakin’ Tkachuk a couple minutes after Semin went down. You were lined up TWICE with Crombeen with the score 4-1 with less than 10 minutes to go. Instigator, shminstigator.
by Cluster on Dec 19, 2008 8:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
1 quick observation....
Kozlov’s 2nd goal was when he was on the 4th line. Gordo got the assist on that, and the shifts right before and right after that goal were all on the 4th line. The first one was definitely on the top line though.
But Nyls was atrocious last night. He looks like a lost rookie out there. Not good for an old seasoned vet.
And the Caps PP looked like the skins on offense. EMBARRASSING.
by vt caps fan on Dec 19, 2008 8:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
As for the Power Play, it will be interesting to see if it reverts to the simple but effective form it had during the injury rash if Green and Semin are out again.
by grapejoos on Dec 19, 2008 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
STL was up for the game
Any team in the bottom five of the Western conference is better than the bottom ten in the Eastern – year after year.
Didn’t BB say in an earlier interview that the Caps PP had been poor because they were looking for the perfect shot? Well. last night (and against the NYI) the PP was passing the puck around again instead of shooting. Funny how a lot of Western teams like to shoot into traffic and get deflections.
So not only was Alex28 standing there with a sore back, he was also flexing his right knee that he appeared to tweak just before the crosscheck (soft ice?). As for Brashear, I was happy to see he didn’t instigate anything and end up costing the Caps another goal in what was a close game given the way STL was playing on the PP.
No doubt Alex28 would be right back out there had someone pounded Boyes into the ice.
by hotdog88gt on Dec 19, 2008 8:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
+1 on all counts.
Yeah, I’d’ve liked to see Brash go too, but we couldn’t risk another goal. He was willing (and looking), the Blues were just chickensh!t. And both Brash and Ovi were hitting everything in a blue and white sweather that got in reach in the final minutes of the game. Anyone else notices that Backes didn’t go out again after that? Or was that me?
Gotta say, though, JP – you said that the Blues weren’t a particularly interesting team, no detested players and no flashy ones. Guess that’s not the case anymore after this game. :P
by gotsparkly on Dec 19, 2008 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s almost getting to the point where instead of looking ahead to what defensemen might be available at the trading deadline, you start looking under “agitators.” A Chris Neil-ish guy instead of a top-four presence on the blue line. Shoot, Gary Roberts is starting to look appealing. Stefan Della Rovere might be, in a strange way, the most valuable commodity in the system. The Caps don’t have another like him.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Dec 19, 2008 8:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
it’s a fair question…what about him? How far away is he from having a legitimate shot at cracking the roster? He’s played in only two games this season at North Dakota, missing more than two months and counting, as a result of a concussion. He could be back playing this weekend, though.
If you've read this far...seek help.
by ThePeerless on Dec 19, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops
Sorry, I responded out of sync to what I meant to do..
by Hooks Orpik on Dec 19, 2008 10:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Get your own folk hero..
I think the only thing Roberts has to offer to the Cap (or anyone) at this point is more man-games missed to injury.
But I do think your point of a Steve Ott-type sandpaper guy would be a nice addition for the Caps.
by Hooks Orpik on Dec 19, 2008 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe the wild would entertain trading boogaard once they realize their team is a pile of crap going nowhwere and trade gaborik.
by macvechkin on Dec 19, 2008 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Big Finn
Joe Finley is exactly what the Caps needed last night. Not an agitator, but an enforcer. I won’t be completely surprised if he’s moved to forward at some point, but Finley’s a great teammate, and has a taste for the rough stuff. He’s already a better skater than Brashear.
Brashear and Bradley really dropped the ball last night. The Caps’ only response to the cross-check was Ovechkin’s bumping and Boudreau getting an unsportsmanlike. That’s flaccid.
Kozlov was with Gordon and Brashear due to a shift change that was caught in the middle, I think. I’ll review to check it out.
by EmptyMaybe on Dec 19, 2008 9:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
STL may be at the bottom of the West, but they’re only five points out of a playoff spot.
If 87 isn’t going to do his job, move him to Brian Burke and get someone who will. This is not a one-game event.
by TylerG on Dec 19, 2008 9:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
And if Brash had fought and we lost?
Yeah, I would have loved to see Brash cave someone’s face in (#42 would have been nice) , but noone on the Blues was willing. So what’s he to do? Start a fight with anyone and then have the guy turtle? Risk getting a two minute instigator and then a five minute fighting and have St. Louis go on a 7-minute powerplay? Is that what you really wanted? Fighting is as much about picking the right spot as it is about beating the snot out of somebody. If the Caps had got another goal and gone up 5-1, you’d most definitely have seen Brash out there going with someone and maybe getting the instigator, but at 4-1 there’s no way Bruce allows him to do it. And don’t think the refs wouldn’t have called a seven minute penalty. In fact, right before play started after Semin left, the ref called over Brash and Tkachuk and laid down the law. As much as you may not like it. Donald’s hand were tied in that situation, probably by Boudreau.
by b.orr4 on Dec 19, 2008 9:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That’s a pound of cure plan, and there is no ounce of prevention. If Brashear goes after a Blue last night (and this talk about ‘asking’ is silly, did Semin ‘ask’ for the cross-check in his previously-injured back?), then he’s effective.
Which costs more – losing 2 points last night, or Semin to a cheap shot? In the long run, which will help the Caps’ chances to get to the post-season and advance? The two points to a non-conference foe with an 8 point lead in the division, or Semin not playing for the next 5 games with the same back injury?
Brashear isn’t a deterrent if his hands are in his gloves. And they’ve stayed their far too long.
The Caps spend a lot of time thinking about reasons not to fight. At the same time, the injury list grows.
by EmptyMaybe on Dec 19, 2008 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where’s the deterrent if Brash fights? The cross check to Semin has already happened, so it won’t prevent that injury and the Caps don’t play St. Louis again, so it’s hardly sending a message for future games. And I doubt the rest of the teams in the east were watching last night, so the message would have been lost on them. Brash fighting against an unwilling combatant and coming away with a five or seven minute penalty would have accomplished nothing.
by b.orr4 on Dec 19, 2008 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
b.orr4
I agree with your logic, but I think it goes back to the previous games where Brasher has only had a few fight for the season to-date. In other words, it’s probably not lost on the players that Brash has kept his paws down and is not engaging in fights even when warranted.
I may be reading to much into the thoughts of other player’s but I would like to think they are somewhat aware of the other team’s enforcers recent history. What is really important now is that Philly will feel unfettered to take cheap shots on Johnny or Ovechkin because they know there will be no repercussions. That said, they would probably take cheap shots anyway. That’s just their style.
by MrSmitty on Dec 19, 2008 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s my prediction, Brashear and Cote will fight on Saturday and it will be early in the game and then probably Brads and some Philly middleweight will go later. Sending a message to Philly, a possible playoff foe, is a totally different animal than going after a team you won’t see again this season. I’m all for a good fight when it serves a purpose and the game situation is right.
by b.orr4 on Dec 19, 2008 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with your take on this one b.orr. Brash needs to protect the stars, but in a game like that, the damage was done and there wasn’t much benefit given the opponent. Had it been a conference opponent, I would be livid at the lack of retaliation.
Let’s just intentionally injure Briere as a precaution.
by grapejoos on Dec 19, 2008 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
‘Face caving’ is a little much, no? (Even as hyperbole.)
by TylerG on Dec 19, 2008 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, sorry. So let me see, you’re all in favor of Brashear beating the stuffing out of someone, but the term “face caving” offends you? You ever hear that saying “Sticks and stones…”
by b.orr4 on Dec 19, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn’t offend me. It’s just kind of macho-by-proxy.
by TylerG on Dec 19, 2008 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea what that means, but it sure does sound smart. In the future, I’ll make sure to avoid hyperbole and proxy.
by b.orr4 on Dec 19, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, b.orr4. Sending Brashear out to pound someone wouldn’t have done anything but set St. Louis up for a comeback. That said, I think the cross check on Semin (which really wasn’t all that bad in my view) warranted more of a response from the players on the ice than a chest-bump from Ovechkin.
by David M. Getz on Dec 19, 2008 11:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No argument here. In Brash’s defense, he did lay out a St. Louis defenseman that sent him limping to the dressing room and Steckel and (I think) Brads did double up on another D-man. If it was Philly or Pittsburgh, I’d be more on the side of immediate retribution because we’d be seeing them several times more. In those cases, maybe losing the battle but winning the war would be acceptable.
by b.orr4 on Dec 19, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This lack of sticking up for each other has been a problem for the Caps for some time now. Brash clearly isn’t invested in this team or something with those fighting stats. So it needs to fall on someone else. Not every battle has to be a heavyweight battle. Remember the (almost) Briere vs Backstrom fight in game 4 in the playoffs? Any Cap can find someone in his weight class.
Oh, and I fully expect the Caps to demolish the Flyers assuming Biron isn’t over his flu. They looked like absolute crap vs. Montreal last night.
by Ben Rothenberg on Dec 19, 2008 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
funny you bring up Briere
That coward has made a career out of cheapshotting opponents and then running away, hoping to draw a penalty. He’s good at it, so…kudos, I guess.
And spare us all the sandbagging—Saturday’s game is a big one for both teams, for more than just standings points. You can book a close, intense game, no matter who’s in net.
by bigonetimer on Dec 19, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Briere and Crosby-Separated at birth?
Now isn’t this something you’d expect Danny boy to do and not the Next One?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAle37zwhyA
by b.orr4 on Dec 19, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From what I’ve seen of Valabik, he probably had it coming.
by David M. Getz on Dec 19, 2008 2:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No man ever has a junk punch comin’.
Except Andy Sutton.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 19, 2008 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, I overstated it a bit.
But in addition to Andy Sutton, also, Briere.
by David M. Getz on Dec 19, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well, at least we have trade bait
we have that to be thankful:
Theodore
Nylander
mucho prospects
ideally, what player(s) would you want added to the Cap roster?
by ns on Dec 19, 2008 10:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know that I’d qualify either Nylander or Theodore as trade bait. Thedore’s at 4.5 million and is one of the worst goalies (statistically) in the league. It’s possible someone may be willing to take him off the Capitals’ hands but I don’t think Washington could get anything of value in return.
Nylander’s been mediocre and inconsistent and has a cap hit of 4.875 million and a no movement clause through next year.
by David M. Getz on Dec 19, 2008 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
To Bash Brash or Not to Bash Brash...
I have mixed feelings about the post-cheap shot response by the team. I was at the game and I saw that BB put Brash’s line out immediately after the whistle blew. If that’s the case, isn’t that an unspoken message to the enforcer to go out and destroy anything wearing a different colored sweater?
In defense of Brash, he put someone into the boards rather rudely, and then held a center-ice conversation with Tkachuk, but either Keith didn’t want to have his face rearranged or he wasn’t interested in exchanging Christmas cards with the Brashear family this year.
I would really like someone in the media (or blogosphere) to ask Donald about the impact of last years’ game against Boston to see if that has been the reason for his unwillingness to drop the gloves this year. I suspect it may have something to do with it.
In the end, I would say that the role of the enforcer is to intimidate the other team from taking liberties with the highly skilled guys on the team. Clearly, this is not happening and therefore, I think Brash has to be held accountable to some degree.
by MrSmitty on Dec 19, 2008 10:11 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I didn’t think the “lack of response” was an accurate assessment made on the front page of JR. I liked the huge hit Brashear made in response, and Ovechkin retaliated as well. Plus they had a lot to lose, losing their heads. LIke Brashear said in the post game, if you immediately give up a PP, or worse a 5 on 3, and they get the score to 4-3, then anything can happen. I thought the response was adequate, and I’m glad they held on to come out with a win.
by japerscreepers on Dec 19, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would really like someone in the media (or blogosphere) to ask Donald about the impact of last years’ game against Boston to see if that has been the reason for his unwillingness to drop the gloves this year. I suspect it may have something to do with it.
Brashear’s on pace for 12.4 fights this year. His fight totals over the last few seasons have been 12, 14, 10, 12, and 11. The last time he had more than 14 fights in a season was 01-02.
I think the issue is more with the opposition being willing and the instigator rule than it is with Brashear.
by David M. Getz on Dec 19, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
+1 (and rec’d)
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 19, 2008 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Chris Clark such a shell of his former self that he’d stand by and do nothing while we get pushed around like this? I’m not suggesting he’s a substitute for Brash, or he’s been any good this year, but it’s hard for me to believe he’s completely morphed into something unrecognizable from his days in Calgary. I hope not because we could use that type of jam in the line-up.
Speaking of unrecognizable, Nylander totally sucked last night. It’s been said already but I just needed to type those words.
by Lisita on Dec 19, 2008 11:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
isn’t that an unspoken message to the enforcer to go out and destroy anything wearing a different colored sweater?
In a word, no. Bruce doesn’t need to tap Brash on the shoulder or whisper in his ear. It’s all about game situation, and no one is exactly lining up to fight him. That’s really the end of the story.
by bigonetimer on Dec 19, 2008 1:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps if Brash and a few others took a shift and started knocking the shit out the other teams ‘skill’ guys, he might find a willing partner.
by macvechkin on Dec 19, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that’s not really how it works. First of all, Brash isn’t out there with other teams’ skill players too much. Second, irrespective of who’s knocking the snot out of whom, that’s part of the game and is not a reason to pick a fight, in and of itself. Third, there’s probably 3-4 guys in the league that can square with Brash and maybe beat him convincingly. If the opponent’s point is to pick a fight, and Brash ends up beating the hell out of the guy, well, that just energizes us, not them. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, you won’t see Brash going after a skill player to hurt him. It’s not in the code.
by bigonetimer on Dec 19, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So in your minds (bigonetimer and b.orr4), Brash is doing his job out there as well as could be expected, hoped for?
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 19, 2008 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I do, and I’ll reiterate a recent post: this season is Brash’s best in DC, in terms of his all around game. And I would advise against judging Brash’s performance as measured by who’s getting run and how many times and whether he’s fighting or not. Bruce isn’t giving that line minutes for nothing, and I credit that in part to that line’s relative absence of bad penalties and being at least even on +/-, which means they’re being defensively responsible.
Now, is he worth $1.2M? No, probably not, but I don’t let that dictate my view of his performance either because his is a unique role, and in my mind there are few better: soft hands and hard fists, and he does get that odd goal turns out to be pretty important.
by bigonetimer on Dec 19, 2008 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, if only the world were that black and white. Do I think he’s doing as well as could be expected? Probably not, but then again he’s Donald Brashear not Alex Ovechkin, he can always be better. But do I think he’s doing pretty much what his coach wants him to do? Probably so. There’s a reason why Bruce has had him in the lineup 31 out of 33 games and it isn’t because of his scoring. Would I like to see him fight more? Yeah, but that’s because I like to watch him fight. But I have a feeling Bruce wants him out there more to stop crap from happening than to start it. Consider him the missle defense system of the Washington Capitals. Everyone is up in arms about the Semin hit, but let’s examine the circumstances. It happened in the waning minutes of the final period against a team the Blues won’t see again. Do you think if that was Florida they’d have pulled the same stunt knowing they’ve got to face Brash five more times? I don’t. So let me pose the question; if Bruce or McPhee went to Brash and told him he’s not fighting enough, do you think Brash wouldn’t be fighting in the very next game? And if he refused to fight, how long do you think he’d stay in the lineup?
by b.orr4 on Dec 19, 2008 3:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I have a feeling Bruce wants him out there more to stop crap from happening than to start it.
Well that’s really my question – do you feel he’s stopping crap from happening? I’ll admit that when I see Johnny (with his bad hip) run repeatedly and opponents taking liberties with Ovechkin and Semin, I’m not sure that he is. Then again, his absence from the lineup earlier in the season was notable (particularly in that Pittsburgh game).
I do agree that if Bruce and GMGM didn’t think he was doing his job, he’d either start doing it or ride pine, so I guess that’s the answer to the question. But it’s not wholly satisfying given the circumstances.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 19, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so what’s it going to be people?
1) he’s not stopping it from going on
2) he’s not getting the other team to dance with him on some occasions. re /the stats that were posted about brash’s fights, that doesn’t mean he can’t fight more, just that he hasn’t had to. i would venture to say this is the most skilled team he’s been on, ergo, he would need to fight more.
3)
that’s not really how it works. First of all, Brash isn’t out there with other teams’ skill players too much.
you’re missing my point. home team has last change, pick your spot and put him out there against some of the other teams skill guys. turnabout is fair play, an eye for an eye, etc. i am NOT insinuating he should cheap shot someone on their team, but see how the other team likes it when some of their skill guys start getting banged on.
you can’t apply ‘the code’ to a team that doesn’t want to follow it.
when someone starts taking liberties with our players, something has to happen
1) Brashear needs to go beat the piss out of someone on their team
or if that isn’t going to happen
2) start banging on their skill players, repeatedly, until you get their attention
it’s not necessarily about dirty stuff. back in the day, if you started trying to get physical on gretzky, you paid consequences. that’s how it should work, no?
by macvechkin on Dec 19, 2008 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
home team has last change, pick your spot and put him out there against some of the other teams skill guys. turnabout is fair play, an eye for an eye, etc.
again, that’s not really how it works out there, but I understand your frustration.
by bigonetimer on Dec 19, 2008 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s tough to know that he stopped something , if it never started (that line even confuses me) but there have been times when it looked like things were about to break out and he skated into the scrum and everybody suddenly got quiet. But we’re talking hockey players and sometimes they’re going to do stuff, like running Johnny, even when they know Brash is around. Frankly, a good middleweight like Brads is probably more valuable because a lot of times the guys who start this stuff, Backis last night and Ruutu for Ottawa, would never consider going with Brash but would take on Bradley. With the NHL the way it is today, maybe heavyweights like Brash and Laraque are dinosaurs waiting for extinction.
by b.orr4 on Dec 19, 2008 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no doubt
Exhibit A: Detroit Red Wings
by macvechkin on Dec 19, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn’t agree more re: Bradley, but unfortunately, his skills as a pugilist aren’t strong.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 19, 2008 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
do you feel he’s stopping crap from happening?
I’ll posit that it’s incumbent on the refs, and not just the enforcer, to keep crap from happening over and over.
As an aside, the recent uptick in fights that result immediately after a clean, hard hit are bullshit.
by bigonetimer on Dec 19, 2008 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
biggie, explain to me how it works as you see it. just because hits are hard and clean means the fighting is not warranted? i disagree. if a team is making a conscious effort to bang on semin or backstrom, that can’t be allowed. if someone wants to do the same with bradley or gordon, we aren’t even talking about this.
by macvechkin on Dec 19, 2008 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that’s correct: I believe clean, hard hits do not warrant fights, in and of themselves. Clean, hard hits are an integral part of the game. Their accumulation by both teams during a game tend to raise the temperature, which can result in a fight, but I don’t think they are themselves grounds for a fight.
And every team, every night is making a conscious effort to bang their opponents’ skill players. The difference, to me, is whether the play is clean and what the game situation is. In this light, it matters not if the aggrieved player is Semin or Steckel—if the shot was cheap and dirty and no penalty is forthcoming, you can bet that a mental note has been made somewhere by someone. Frankly, I didn’t think either on Semin was too terrible; he embellished the trip by jumping up in the air, and the shot in the back was, well, ‘routine’—I’ve seen worse not called.
by bigonetimer on Dec 19, 2008 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I believe clean, hard hits do not warrant fights, in and of themselves.
+1
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 19, 2008 5:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no, they warrant harder hits the other way. :-)
by macvechkin on Dec 19, 2008 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s definitely on the refs, but if they don’t do anything, what’s a team to do? If they don’t penalize the trip and/or the cross check on Semin last night, doesn’t the team have to take matters into its own hands?
And I’ve been railing about the absurdity of the clean hit retribution for a while now. It’s embarrassing.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 19, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe we should split this into two categories. clean, hard hits require a reaction.
cheap shit requires retribution.
by macvechkin on Dec 19, 2008 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
“doesn’t the team have to take matters into its own hands?”
I think that’s what Ovi did, by the way. I had no problem with his reaction to the play, either.
by bigonetimer on Dec 19, 2008 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When was the last time you saw a fight in the NFL after a clean, hard hit? The answer is never. NHLers pride temselves on their toughness, yet they act like baseball players everytime someone makes a good play.
by b.orr4 on Dec 19, 2008 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good Stuff
As I head out for the mall, I have to say this was a great topic. Lots of good discussion, great ideas. I feel like we all got a little smarter. This is what makes this site so great. That said, Brash you need to beat the living crap out of Riley Cote tomorrow. Seriously.
by b.orr4 on Dec 19, 2008 5:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed – amazing, too, how civil the discussion was/is.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 19, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d settle for someone running Upshalls’ head through the plexiglass…cleanly, of course
…does that still count as civil discussion?
by bigonetimer on Dec 19, 2008 6:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yes. The only civility about which I care is that which we show towards each other. Scottie Upshall can piss up a rope.
Japers' Rink: Hockey blogging from the most powerful city in the world
by J.P. on Dec 19, 2008 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
between him and Briere, it’s a toss up who’s the tinier douche.
by bigonetimer on Dec 19, 2008 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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Southeast Standings
| GP | W | L | OTL | PT | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Washington
|
22 | 13 | 5 | 4 | 30 |
|
Tampa Bay
|
19 | 8 | 4 | 7 | 23 |
|
Atlanta
|
18 | 10 | 6 | 2 | 22 |
|
Florida
|
20 | 9 | 9 | 2 | 20 |
|
Carolina
|
21 | 4 | 12 | 5 | 13 |
(updated 11.21.2009 at 8:36 AM EST)
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
