Where There's Smoke...
by J.P. on Nov 20, 2008 9:08 AM EST
38 comments
When Bob McKenzie reports that "The Chicago Blackhawks, according to multiple NHL sources, have a standing deal ready to go at a moment's notice to acquire veteran center Michael Nylander from the Washington Capitals," and word is that the 'Hawks might go as far as to put Cristobal Huet on waivers to make it happen, it's really time to put aside any notion that there's nothing at all to these rumors (or, for that matter, that Nylander's no movement clause will likely be exercised).Recent developments (the cap situation and Mike Green's injury, Nylander's entrenchment in Bruce Boudreau's Chez Bow-Wow, the re-emergence of Nicklas Backstrom, the revelation (to me, at least) that Nyls stills owns a home in Chicago, etc.) would seem to make a Nylander move make even more sense. Might the team be better off in the long-run freeing up the cap space to, for example, give Chris Bourque and Karl Alzner roster spots now or to provide needed flexibility down the road? There's only one way to find out, and one gets the feeling that we might be a step closer to that answer sooner rather than later.
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2) Doesn't Nylander have a bunch of kids? Does he want to either uproot his family in the middle of a season, or be apart fro them for long stretches if he has the option to stay put? From a parents perspective can tell ya the answer to that one is easy!
3) The only time that we could see a Nylander acquiescence of a trade would be at the draft/the off season. He doesn't have to go, and he gains NOTHING from moving, so why would he?!?
by FAUX RUMORS on Nov 20, 2008 9:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
by JP on Nov 20, 2008 9:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
what are we expecting in return, realistically?
- NS (can't seem to post with normal ID?)
by Anonymous on Nov 20, 2008 9:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
by JP on Nov 20, 2008 9:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
by HotDog88GT on Nov 20, 2008 9:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
by b.orr4 on Nov 20, 2008 9:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The two names I've heard are Dustin Byfuglien and Brent Sopel. I love Byfuglien, but as this would primarily be a salary cap move and the Capitals are thinner than they want on defense, I'd prefer Sopel.
If the team moves Nylander and picks up Sopel they could promote Alzner and, when healthy, have Green, Poti, Schultz, and Sopel as the top four with Alzner, Sloan, Erskine, Morrisonn and Jurcina providing depth.
What I think this could also do is open up cap space for the long term and give the Caps a chance to make a run at Mathieu Schneider at the trade deadline. Theoretically they could finish the season with a defense of Green, Poti, Schultz, Sopel, Alzner and Schneider, with Erskine and Morrisonn for depth - a group that looks like one that's poised for a long playoff run to me.
Not necessarily likely but it'd be great if the possibility was there.
by DMG on Nov 20, 2008 9:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Keith on Nov 20, 2008 9:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Drew on Nov 20, 2008 10:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Caps Dreamer on Nov 20, 2008 10:09 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm heard Barker's name a little, but I can't believe that the Hawks would let him go for Nylander alone.
My research (i.e. google-ing) has turned up a number of rumors saying the Capitals asked for Byfuglien and were denied, which makes sense from the Blackhawks perspective.
I still think that if this does happen Nylander-for-Sopel is most likely, though you have to wonder if the Caps would be wary of those 2M+ cap hit for the next three years.
by DMG on Nov 20, 2008 10:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Aesthetically, it is shocking to see how much Nylander's more deliberate game is at odds with just about the rest of the roster. Things slo-o-o-o-o-w do-o-o-o-wn when he has the puck.
And, it's quite a luxury to be suffering a $4.875 million cap hit for a third line center. The charm of his deal is that Fedorov's contract expires after this year, while Nylander has two more years to run. But while Nylander might have been a good fit last year when signed, he doesn't seem to have a clear role with another coach and another system.
I'm thinking the over-under on this is the Caps' return home...will Nylander be a Cap on November 26th?
by The Peerless on Nov 20, 2008 10:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Plus, what do we do when Feds' contract expires next year? Keep Laich as our no. 2 center?
by Murshawursha on Nov 20, 2008 10:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
by JP on Nov 20, 2008 10:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Whale4ever on Nov 20, 2008 10:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Now? I'm not so sure. It is a nice luxury to have a player of Nylander's caliber, but if he is having serious personality issues with Bruce, and if he isn't buying into the system then maybe we would be better off letting someone like Chris Bourque get called up. Build some cap room for the trade deadline and make a move for a playoff run.
At this point I am not advocating to trade the man, but I won't be livid if it happens.
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 20, 2008 11:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Sombrero Guy on Nov 20, 2008 11:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not necessarily buying the depth of the "doghouse" Nyls is in with BB either (see Steve Eminger for what that really looks like), but he doesn't match up so well with the BB system, so I get the arguments for the trade. But we need to get something more than a pick and cap space for this to make sense. Since it's not going to be a young offensive talent like Patrick Sharp, it'd better be a young, cheap SOH D-man like Cam Barker.
by bigonetimer on Nov 20, 2008 11:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Reading some of the comments about Nylander and moving...as people have pointed out before, Nylander having an NMC doesn't mean he won't switch teams, it just means he has some control regarding the destination. From all indications, Chicago is a destination the Nylander's would find acceptable and, as JP points out, have a place to stay. And to some other comments, a family doesn't have to uproot the day of the trade, a move can wait until an upcoming school break, for example.
Given the timeline, hopefully, this gets resolved soon for the benefit of the hockey team and the player and his family, whether it ends up being Chicago or elsewhere. There are pros and cons to the cap space needs and this season vs the center depth issues going forward, but watching the first month plus of the season, I am more on board to the idea of a Nylander trade than I was before.
OT: Based on my notes and waiver rule understanding, Sloan has played in his 10th NHL game and will have to clear waivers to be sent to the AHL, so I expect to see the Caps carrying 7 dmen for now.
by sk84fun_dc on Nov 20, 2008 12:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Ogre on Nov 20, 2008 12:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The deal is effectively Nyls for Byfuglien, Alzner and Bourque. No brainer.
by Tyler on Nov 20, 2008 12:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
More to the point, Nylander has pride. He doesn't want to stay somewhere he doesn't fit, isn't wanted and embarrasses himself. Remember, he was part of "The Rebuild is Over: Starring Glen Hanlon."
I would give him away, were it legal.
by MacVechkin, fka JR on Nov 20, 2008 12:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
or just more depth at RW?
I can't believe GMGM would trade Nylander for just a pick.
if the Caps have come this far with the Blackhawks, you can bet your ass they have already spoken to Nylander about it. That NMC might already be a non-issue...
- NS
by Anonymous on Nov 20, 2008 1:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by MacVechkin, fka JR on Nov 20, 2008 1:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also, just to throw this out there, if all the Caps get back is a pick, that gives them the potential ability to make a play for someone at the deadline or even one of the unsigned vets out there. I don't think we need to bring in more age in the form of a Sundin or Shanahan (not that it's a serious possibility anyway), but a pickup like a Schneider or some other veteran center at the deadline at a rent-a-player rate would be an appealing option.
I can't shake the feeling that this will happen, it's just a question of what we get in return.
by jason on Nov 20, 2008 1:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What usually happens is that one source will publish a rumor, and then ten other places will repeat it. Most people then see that as 11 sources for the rumor, when in fact, there is still only one source plus lots of repetition. What people see as "smoke" is just lots of meaningless, repetitious verbiage of no consequence.
/rant
by norske on Nov 20, 2008 2:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by JP on Nov 20, 2008 2:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by wittcap79 on Nov 20, 2008 2:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think Laich would be moved to center for the forseeable future were Nylander moved.
Byfuglien = Clark ouster?
or just more depth at RW?
My guess is more that Byfuglien would make Fehr expendable since he's a big right wing with a decent scoring touch. That, plus the fact that Fehr gets less than ten minutes in the few games he does play makes me wonder if it will wind up being Fehr and Nylander for Byfuglien.
by DMG on Nov 20, 2008 3:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Why? There is no need to give up Fehr at all. They better get someone better than DB if we're giving up something that A)Chicago desperately needs, and we have. B) A former 1st Rd pick who is still only 23? Both for Dustin, really? I can see Barker in that trade, but not DB.
by wittcap79 on Nov 20, 2008 3:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
By the way Wittcap79, you'll be glad to know the Caps had asked for Byfuglien and the Hawks said no. Offensively he's starting slow, but there's too much power forward/bruising defense potential for them to give up on him.
by jh on Nov 20, 2008 3:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by b.orr4 on Nov 20, 2008 3:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by wittcap79 on Nov 20, 2008 4:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by norske on Nov 20, 2008 7:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
by Sam on Nov 20, 2008 8:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I think you're overvaluing Fehr. Yes, he is a 23 year old former first round draft pick - but Sasha Pokulok will be a 23 year old former first rounder in May. At this point it isn't about where you were drafted, it's about what you're doing.
The comparison you're making between Fehr and DB really doesn't hold up in my eyes. Byfuglien has 21 goals in his last 84 NHL games, whereas Fehr has four goals in 56 career NHL games and two in his last 31. Sure, ice time plays a role but Fehr's seen 314 minutes in the last two years and is scoring at a rate of once every 157 minutes. At that rate, even if he got 15 minutes a game (1,230 minutes), he'd still only have eight goals. To me, that's not enough to say he'd be a twenty goal guy if he just got the minutes. For comparison, Byfuglien's scored once every 66 minutes over the last two years and once every 44 minutes on the powerplay.
Offensive production aside, Fehr's a fairly big guy at ~210 pounds but Byfuglien's 245. That 35 pounds is the same as the difference between Donald Brashear and Boyd Gordon. That's a lot more to deal with in front of the net and in the corners.
I like Fehr and I agree that there's no inherent need to move him. However, I disagree that there's no reason to move him if the team wants Byfuglien since (word is, at least) the Blackhawks turned down Nylander for Byfuglien. If they had accepted, Byfuglien would come in ahead of Fehr on the depth chart and you have to think it'd be awfully hard to find time for someone who's only played in 8 of 18 games for his team and averages 9:56 of ice time when he does play.
If the Capitals wanted Byfuglien and offering Nylander wasn't enough I think the question isn't "why Fehr?" it's "why not Fehr?"
To me the biggest problems with Byfuglien would be (1) he's got a three year extension at three million per that kicks in next year and (2) the Capitals need help at defense more than anywhere else.
Personally I like either acquiring Sopel or trading Nylander for a pick in a salary dump, promoting Alzner, and seeing how the defense looks for the time being.
by DMG on Nov 20, 2008 9:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
If the Caps want more depth on the backline with a bit of offensive upside to boot, you could do a lot worse than Byfuglien. He's certainly better than Sopel at this point of their careers.
by bkblades on Nov 21, 2008 6:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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